Meta and You

[Damus_Graves]

What do you believe meta stands for? What is it that can be constituted as meta? How do you use meta? How is meta used against you? What do you believe is your own meta? Questions like these are the back of every FM players mind, new and vet alike. We fear and love meta because of its flimsy nature but do we really know what meta is or what it does? How do we properly use meta anyways?
Well its time to answer the question. Lets see how insightful the players of FM really are.

[Poriomania]

As you probably know, I am anti-meta.

I used it quite a bit around last year but it's just so darn inaccurate that it frustrated me.

Players rarely play the exact same in every game unless they want to.

[Deantwo]

I guess, using information that you only know because you have played with some of the same people before.

For example:
"FM Thingy is Damus! Damus is only active when he is scum! Lynch him!"

[Titus]

I think the question is both overbroad and vague.

There are three types of meta

Personal Meta - Like I am a severe analyzer, ika loves to claim "I'll suicide" before death.

Site Meta - For this setup, this is expected town behavior.

Setup Meta - This setup calls for a certain lynch or no lynch behavior to win.


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Site meta is essential to understand to fit in. Sometimes, it's best to argue against it. Sometimes, the site meta is the only proper action.

Player meta... it's a weak form of evidence.

Setup meta... can be useful but backfired in the latest M-FM.

Sometimes, these aren't perfectly clear lines in setups where players pick their own roles.

[AppleyNO]

Meta is how a player acts depending on his alignment.

How friendly/cold your posts are, how often you do post, if you lead/contribute/lurk, what you lie about, and who you buddy with are all metainformation.

I actually am not sure about the next two questions, since I haven't played in any kind of FM since FM 17.

I am more pro-town the more scummy I am.

[Fatalis]

IMO Meta is how a person acts based on 'out-of-game' facts, usually actions that are most popular/most often used

[ika]

Personal Meta - Like I am a severe analyzer, ika loves to claim "I'll suicide" before death.

and every time i have claimed that i was town.

[Sinclair]

Meta is how a player acts depending on his alignment.

How friendly/cold your posts are, how often you do post, if you lead/contribute/lurk, what you lie about, and who you buddy with are all metainformation.

I actually am not sure about the next two questions, since I haven't played in any kind of FM since FM 17.

I am more pro-town the more scummy I am.

That's why I love to always be a douche ^_^

[RLVG]

I'm a no-meta person. I try to ignore meta and instead focus on the actual game and setup, while maintaining a different style or same style each time regardless of alignment, role, situation or whatever.

The real disadvantage is me being an European, so I have a tendency of getting lynched before I wake up, town or not.

[Damus_Graves]

Meta is an application of a persons individual play-style and reactions in the objective of more accurately reading their alignment and predicting their night actions. When you meta someone you are more or less predicting what they are and what they would do. Meta can be used to trick players into doing what you would want them to or vise versa. Meta is dependent on a persons consistency and ignorance.

What do you think your meta is?

[CmG]

Meta? Never heard of it. Must be american made!

[Titus]

Meta is an application of a persons individual play-style and reactions in the objective of more accurately reading their alignment and predicting their night actions. When you meta someone you are more or less predicting what they are and what they would do. Meta can be used to trick players into doing what you would want them to or vise versa. Meta is dependent on a persons consistency and ignorance.

What do you think your meta is?

My meta is being an analyzer but not certain of my conclusions. I was right about two drug dealers at the start and talked out of it. I'm too easily manipulated by logical sounding scum but emotional plays have zero effect on me even if they are made by town. That's why "I'll suicide" never works on me and it never will.

[CmG]

Tell me more please.

[ika]

My meta is being an analyzer but not certain of my conclusions. I was right about two drug dealers at the start and talked out of it. I'm too easily manipulated by logical sounding scum but emotional plays have zero effect on me even if they are made by town. That's why "I'll suicide" never works on me and it never will.

you should learn though that an emotion based is sometime the strongest form telling if someon is town or not. for example if someone is at a raging state when on verge of being lynched, 99% of the time they are most likely town, emotions is a powerful form of telling if someone i town or not sometimes

[Titus]

you should learn though that an emotion based is sometime the strongest form telling if someon is town or not. for example if someone is at a raging state when on verge of being lynched, 99% of the time they are most likely town, emotions is a powerful form of telling if someone i town or not sometimes

This is something I absolutely disagree with. When I'm town, I'm much more chill about being lynched than when I'm mafia unless I am a PR. If I am a citizen, I'll fight to live sure but the information gained by lynching me is pretty valuable and I don't have a night action. If I'm a PR, my level of freak out depends on how essential I am. If there are several other doctors, I'm not freaking out.

[Slaol]

Meta means little. At best meta will help you find who someone else. Then have a vague idea of if or if not they should be helping.
Example- Finding Damus is good, because he can easily MVP a town. If he isn't, keep an eye on his stance.
Finding Gerik is easy, since he can appear very pro-town. However it doesn't attach to his role...

[Nazzhoul]

Meta is meta.
Meta alone is bad.

CmG is always scum.
Damus may as well just not use anon accounts. He's always obvious with his COM, but he changes his playstyle so nobody can meta him.
I'm getting to the point where I can identify Ika pretty well too.
Titus is always long-winded.
Slaol does whatever the hell he feels like, as long as it isn't gamethrowing and he has fun.
Appley is damn good as a neutral killer.
Fatalis has only recently learned what the setup page is.
Someone want to enlighten me on my meta? I haven't seen any instances of meta being used against me.

Using meta against other players usually involves knowing their personality to guess their response to something happening.

Other applications of meta include using the experience of other players. See the last MFM where Vornskr was killed night 1. As a protective role, you know it's often a good bet to protect the most experienced player in the game on night one.

All I can think of at the moment.

[CmG]

are we arguing on s-fm level or higher?

[Nazzhoul]

you should learn though that an emotion based is sometime the strongest form telling if someon is town or not. for example if someone is at a raging state when on verge of being lynched, 99% of the time they are most likely town, emotions is a powerful form of telling if someone i town or not sometimes

Because of this, though, emotion can be easily faked. IIRC that's part of how I won as Jester in FMXV, raging at the town in a fake-ish manner to get enough people saying "Oh he's faking the rage to appear protown"

That's what I thought you were doing as Lichtmann, especially when you posted that hate-essay directed towards Titus.

[Damus_Graves]

are we arguing on s-fm level or higher?

I always prefer M-FM and up in discussions like this.

[CmG]

Oh well. alright. If its m-fm or fm level i wont share any insights. Because Meta is everything there. I will explain it after FM 19 if you don't believe it. In detail... and colour!

[ika]

Because of this, though, emotion can be easily faked. IIRC that's part of how I won as Jester in FMXV, raging at the town in a fake-ish manner to get enough people saying "Oh he's faking the rage to appear protown"

That's what I thought you were doing as Lichtmann, especially when you posted that hate-essay directed towards Titus.

Well its the fact that titus always see that i am a scum person for reasons that still seem to not make sense to me. it just that whenever we are both same side we can never agree on it

[Nick]

Ask Jack about how he loves meta.

Anyone going to post a comprehensive guide about how to meta?

[Slaol]

Slaol does whatever the hell he feels like, as long as it isn't gamethrowing and he has fun.

I'm Slaol and I approve this statement.
Goal 1: enjoy game
Goal 2: do something in each game that is memorable
Goal 3: claim everything
Goal 4: shoot Fatalis
Goal 5: lynch Titus
Goal 6: repeat step 3
Goal 7: victory

[Damus_Graves]

Ask Jack about how he loves meta.

Anyone going to post a comprehensive guide about how to meta?

I would but im pretty sure i dont know enough about meta and its use to do so. I would suggest Yayap do so but he still have the Tips and Tricks thread to finish lol

[Titus]

I'm Slaol and I approve this statement.
Goal 1: enjoy game
Goal 2: do something in each game that is memorable
Goal 3: claim everything
Goal 4: shoot Fatalis
Goal 5: lynch Titus
Goal 6: repeat step 3
Goal 7: victory

Ooh I'm cool enough to get lynched in every game we play with you. That's why you wanted to lynch me that one game you were roleblocked sheriff.

[BorkBot]

Meta is easier to use in smaller games with many PRs. I sometimes use it to guess peoples' roles based on who I would expect them to target under certain circumstances. In other words, where does the feedback come from? Why did this person die?

Once you've guessed someone's role/alignment correctly, you may be able to act accordingly and predict their future movements.

Of course there's a margin of error, but some players just tend to do what is expected, while others like to play risky. And some players will have tendencies to target certain other players first because they consider them to be "more important" than others.

Meta about peoples' writing styles and times and frequency of posting can be used to figure out hidden COM identities quite handily if you're playing with familiar players.

Meta is often the best way to catch ventriloquists/disguisers as well. Better even than using codes in some cases.

That said, I've reduced my use of meta significantly in more recent FMs, mainly because the fairly large influx of players I'm not as familiar with makes it less worthwhile.

I have meta'd the hosts a bit though ;)

[Yayap]

What do you believe meta stands for?

Metagaming is mostly using past experience to set a strategy of what to do and what not to do.

What is it that can be constituted as meta?

Gerik is always scum.
Hosts always include a doctor in the setup.
Blacksmiths, gunsmiths and armorsmiths always give at least 1 item to scum.
Scum will attack power roles when discovered.
Doctors protect the obvious targets.
Investigators rarely check someone who claims a role early to confirm what he said.
Town will believe an investigator/sheriff claim no matter how flimsy the evidence is.
Town will sheep mayor even though he knows nothing more than a cit.
75% of lurkers/sheep are usually citizens.

How do you use meta?

I do the unexpected things and people don't know how to react to my plays.

How is meta used against you?

People know that they can never ever trust what I say.
People expect me to find all the scum really really fast or else they think I'm holding back.
Because I don't follow the standard "meta rules" for my role, they think I'm scum.
Because I'm more aware of the other possibilities that doesn't follow meta, I sometimes ignore the obvious.

What do you believe is your own meta?

Yayap never claims his role as a defense.
Yayap might claim scum to force a lynch on someone else.
Yayap is an analyzer that can't be trusted.

Questions like these are the back of every FM players mind, new and vet alike. We fear and love meta because of its flimsy nature but
do we really know what meta is or what it does? How do we properly use meta anyways?
Well its time to answer the question. Lets see how insightful the players of FM really are.

Combining information gathered from meta affects Wifom in a great deal. You need to know how a player thinks before you can predict what he is doing.

[Damus_Graves]

Q: How do you use meta?
A: Using my experiences with other players I construct my arguments differently. If I were facing Titus I would use more indepth analysis and follow a precise linear flow of information to persuade her to my view of thinking. However if I were facing Ika I would simply state that this player is scum and quote the posts that show this. During the night phase however I would reread the day chat and use other players experiences and their provided preformances to determine if they would target someone specifically, like FM Parker should have been doctor'd for instance, or if they would go with a personal choice, such as Lichtmann targeting Galloway so much. In this example the newer players, having identified a friend of theirs they see being active, would target someone they know to be a good player over a revealed mayor/investigator for example.

Q: How is meta used against you?
A: People assume that I will always take the mantle of Town Leader and assist town heavily in scum hunting. They believe that should I not be doing this that I am scum trying to blend. They also assume I target my friends over the logical target, for some and the reverse for others. Also you think im gonna reveal all my meta but im not :3

Q: What do you believe is your meta?
A: A solid analyzer who leads town to victory by creating lynches on scum forcibly. A crazy playstyle switching frustration that causes maximum chaos.

Everything else is pretty much what Yayap has said already lol

[Titus]

Q: How do I use meta?

Pretty much like Damus said. I try to use it to tailor my arguments. I'm more guarded against meta than I am using it proactively though. If someone who isn't normally an analyzer starts talking like one, I'll know they are trying to tailor their arguments to me. I'll find that suspicious. For any particular player, the evidence I would rely on would change. For someone like Damus, I'd almost never quote meta because I know he and I both view meta generally as low value information.

Q: How is meta used against me?

See FM 18. Basically, all the mafia who were aware of my identity began constructing false arguments with hidden information.

Q: What do I believe is my meta?

Here. It's a town leader/analyzer to the point of being ridiculous. Of course, I'm almost always a role that focuses exclusively on voting. I'm not complaining but I almost never role a PR in an FM. So that's part of my meta too. I literally have no meta on doctor, sheriff or anything else of the sort.

I'm not as aware of my scum meta but that will come with time.

This isn't 100% of my meta, but I can't share everything.

[Burnt Eskimo]

Q: How do i use meta?
meta is retarded. I was playing on another forum and they meta'd me as town because I was new and acting comfortable. easiest win ever.

Q: How is meta used against me?
Nerds here never figure me out. I dont have enuf games to get meta'd.

Q: What do I believe is my meta?
trolling nerds that think meta is useful.

[Damus_Graves]

LOL thats not even proper use of meta Brunt. That sites needs to step their game up

[Yayap]

LOL thats not even proper use of meta Brunt. That sites needs to step their game up

Yes it is, if that site is use to town being comfortable and scum being more prone to panic, then he used that sites meta to stay off the radar.

[Damus_Graves]

Yes it is, if that site is use to town being comfortable and scum being more prone to panic, then he used that sites meta to stay off the radar.

/me was thinking player meta use over site meta.

[42shadow42]

Q: How do you use meta?
A: I establish for myself a meta of unpredictable behavior, by selecting at least one thing each game that nobody would expect, in doing so I hope to achieve the effect of meta being less reliable in determining my alignment.

Q: How is meta used against you?
A: People don't understand my meta and lynch for being scummy :P

Q: What do you believe is your meta?
A: Unpredictable analyzer.

[Nick]

Anyone who claimed "This is my meta" can actually use this to their advantage and deceive others in their next game. By not doing it.

Yayap? Not my team. He dies tonight.
CmG? Not my team either. Join the graveyard early.

And nobody will heal or protect them because they are not being trusted.

Efficient use of meta.

[Burnt Eskimo]

itt thinking meta is important