M-FM: Gates to Infinity

[Fragos]

But only I know which roles will be actually in game and which are not. So your "mind game" will only work if those roles will be actually in game. I can choose not to include Doctor and place Armorsmith instead, for example.

[ika]

But only I know which roles will be actually in game and which are not. So your "mind game" will only work if those roles will be actually in game. I can choose not to include Doctor and place Armorsmith instead, for example.

then they say "oh person x is a rebel he should be getting all the vest becasue he can talk for our rebels rebels can contiune to use that while doing it"

[Fragos]

Anyway, it's good to have heated talk, but don't get too excited yet. This game needs to win the next M-FM poll first. But even if I don't win the current poll, I'll simply place it on the next poll, just like you guys with M-FM Community did.

[BorkBot]

Precisely, yes. So be careful and keep your identities hidden if possible unless you are sure that Town will protect you. You know why Rebel team lost in FM XVII, right?

To be honest, the only reason the rebels ever really had a chance in FM XVII was because the purple team killed half of the blue team by day 2 and some of the town lost faith in blue. The town will not spend resources on protecting the rebels from kills that might be caused by blue, their potential allies, because they don't want to get in blue's way. Hence the doctor healing the sheriff and not either of the claimed rebels. And the rebels can never receive any tools to deal with any of the other factions at night, so they're at a pretty big disadvantage if you ask me.


Original post still needs rules listed.

Does the spy actually lose night chat with his own team if he is recruited?

Is the spy private message anonymous?

Where is use of armoursmith vests on the OoO?

Jailor/Kidnapper does not state target is roleblocked. Is this correct?

Can a bus driver/gunsmith combination actually allow the tricksters to give themselves guns at night by swapping one of their own members?

Doctor - Can heal his target each night. Doctor becomes Rebel Medic if he decides to join the Rebels.

Rebel medic was removed?

• Bodyguard Protects
• Veteran/Enchantress Alert
• Witch Controls
• Escort / Consort Blocks
• Lookout / Detective Actions
• Bus Driving

Are all actions above bus driving unaffected by bus driving misdirection?

Also please answer Cryptonic's questions. They are all important things that need to be cleared up.

[Fragos]

Well, I'll think about it. If the disadvantage could be that much of a problem, then we can increase the number of starting rebels to 3, but at the same time disallow then to recruit Town Power roles. Is that fine with you? Now onwards to answering the questions.

Bodyguard immune to Veteran & Enchantress?
Bodyguard and Veteran are role cards of the same team, so Veteran will not kill Bodyguard. If Bodyguard visits Enchantress on alert, he will be simply roleblocked... by why would Enforcer Bodyguard protect someone like Rebel Enchantress?

Bodyguard can't be Witched?
Bodyguard can be witched. Useful if you want to force the Enforcer team to "protect" you.

Can Spy's messages be blocked? Redirected?
Spy's messages works pretty much like mail mechanic in Cops and Robbers, except that Spy is the only one who can use then. You don't need to worry about misdirection, because Tricksters are the only source of it. Spy can be roleblocked at night, but if he'll sends his message during the day, it will go through. More importanlty, he can send his message at day to one of his teammates to put him on the right course. The limit of one message per day/night still applies.

What's the difference between "Disguises take effect" and "Disguiser cleaning" on OoO?
No differences. I'll fix it out in Order of Operations soon.

Can people hold multiple guns/vests? If so, can people use multiple items along side their night action?
Vests can be used together with any other actions, but guns must be used separately.

Does the spy actually lose night chat with his own team if he is recruited?
No, he retains his access to Trickster night chat. But even in case if he would lose that access, he can still send PMs to his team to let then know who the Rebels are.

Is the spy private message anonymous?
Yes, it is anonymous.

Where is use of armoursmith vests on the OoO?
They should be on the same priority as the doctor heals.

Jailor/Kidnapper does not state target is roleblocked. Is this correct?
I forgot to mention it, but jailed target DOES becomes roleblocked during the night. I'll fix this in the role cards.

Can a bus driver/gunsmith combination actually allow the tricksters to give themselves guns at night by swapping one of their own members?
No. Because Tricksters are the only ones who can cause misdirection and know about it, they cannot receive any guns from Gunsmith that way. Not from Witch, and certainly not from Bus Driver. They need to give their guns to someone else. But they can control the gunner later.

Rebel medic was removed?
Yes, it was removed.

Are all actions above bus driving unaffected by bus driving misdirection?
Only if they target Bus Driver specifically (like Witch, Escort/Consort). Veteran will kill the Bus driver, but misdirection will still occur; Enchatrell will roleblock the Bus driver if he targets her.

[Cryptonic]

Bodyguard immune to Veteran & Enchantress?
Bodyguard and Veteran are role cards of the same team, so Veteran will not kill Bodyguard. If Bodyguard visits Enchantress on alert, he will be simply roleblocked... by why would Enforcer Bodyguard protect someone like Rebel Enchantress?
Then it needs to be after Veteran and Enchantress in OoO.

Bodyguard can't be Witched?
Bodyguard can be witched. Useful if you want to force the Enforcer team to "protect" you.
BG also needs to be after Witching.

Can people hold multiple guns/vests?
Vests can be used together with any other actions, but guns must be used separately.
Not fully answered.

[Cryptonic]

Can Witch & Bodyguard be roleblocked? Cause they're also before roleblocking on the Order of Operations.

[BorkBot]

Well, I'll think about it. If the disadvantage could be that much of a problem, then we can increase the number of starting rebels to 3, but at the same time disallow then to recruit Town Power roles. Is that fine with you? Now onwards to answering the questions.

I just think the rebels are at a significant disadvantage compared to the enforcers, because the enforcers' roles provide utility that the town is lacking and the rebels don't.

On top of that, the enforcers have the means to find and kill the rebels, while the rebels don't have the means to find, let alone kill the enforcers, or even to communicate with the outlaws to do it for them. Removing their ability to recruit power roles would just make it worse. Removing the town PR's ability to deny recruitment or making the rebel leader undetectable to the sheriff would make it better.

That's the last I'll say on that subject.


Something that's less debatable is that your Order of Operations needs work. An OoO is supposed to clarify what actions affect each other.

The BG's position is wrong because it doesn't affect any of these actions:

• Veteran/Enchantress Alert
• Witch Controls
• Escort / Consort Blocks
• Lookout / Detective Actions
• Bus Driving

Yet all of those actions affect the bodyguard. So Bodyguard should be under them.

It's also not clear from this OoO that bus driving affects targets from roles above it on the OoO, whether or not lookout/detective can see what the roles above them are doing (especially veteran), if a witch can be blocked by escort/consort, and if an escort/consort can stop a veteran from killing. The framer also goes after detective/lookout, yet the framer rolecard says it's supposed to affect their information.

For some tips about making an OoO, you can read the OoO section in this post: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...ore-posting%29

This is not meant as nitpicking. We are trying to make all hosts apply the same standards and logic to their OoO's, so just looking at them will make it clear what will happen under which circumstances. If every host uses his own logic, an OoO won't be helpful and players will still have to ask what happens in every scenario.

[Fragos]

In just a few days, I will be away for a week. However, I made some changes in the Rebel team and made that so they start with 3 members, just like other factions. However, they still cannot recruit more than 4 Town roles, and they will be unable to recruit more than 1 Town Power role.

And yes, the Witch and Bodyguard can be roleblocked, but a Trickster can force Escort/Consort to roleblock someone else in order to prevent himself to be roleblocked.

[Fragos]

Alright, we'll see each other in a week! Good luck in FM XVIII!

[BorkBot]

Have a good trip.

For when you get back: we do not only request answering our questions about the OoO, we're kind of hoping you'll update the OoO so it instantly makes sense when people read it. To do that, the order should change slightly and some exceptions have to be noted in some places (redirection and roleblocks usually). Examples have already been given above.

If you need help with the exact formulation of the OoO, let us know so we can show you how to structure it correctly according to the standardised "rules" we'd like to use, while still letting it do exactly what you want it to do.

[Fragos]

Guess who is back now!

[ypmagic]

Nice timing. I think BorkBot has been inactive for four days or something like that now. /presign if possible but i don't want to get infracted slaol/bunny/damus

[Cryptonic]

Nice timing. I think BorkBot has been inactive for four days or something like that now. /presign if possible but i don't want to get infracted slaol/bunny/damus

b&

[Fragos]

I'm going to pick off a little experiment of my own.

Normally I already have a list of the M-FM names that are going to be used in Gates to Infinity, but in this experiment I will give you a chance to pick an FM account name of your own (while sticking to a Pokemon theme). The reason that I'm trying to do this is that because during M-FM Nasty Rumours Brendan asked me to give him Bidoof account, but he was given a different account and was not happy with it (even when another player with Bidoof account was already in his team).

Pick up your favorite Pokemon name that you would like to use in Gates to Infinity M-FM. If you think that your favorite Pokemon name would be the same as another person, you can also pick up your secondary favorite choice (and tertiary if you want). There are about 649 Pokemon names total, so I doubt that there would be any conflicts. Once you pick up your favorite name, then there will be a chance that the chosen name could be used by you as your game account when this game starts. You can do this before even the sign-ups begin. Make sure that you send your choice to me via PM and not post it somewhere in the forum - we are going to use anonymous accounts, after all.

Even if this game will not start immediately after FM XVIII or gets suspended, this experiment will still be interesting to watch! And of course, people that agree to participate in the experiment will have higher priorities to join this game before it starts! And don't worry about account creation process - when everyone will be ready, I'll ask Raptorblaze to create your chosen account names. We can even reuse some of the 20 names from Nasty Rumours if you decide to pick one.

So come and join my new experiment - even if you are not actually planning to play M-FM Gates to Infinity!

[ypmagic]

I'm going to pick off a little experiment of my own.

Normally I already have a list of the M-FM names that are going to be used in Gates to Infinity, but in this experiment I will give you a chance to pick an FM account name of your own (while sticking to a Pokemon theme). The reason that I'm trying to do this is that because during M-FM Nasty Rumours Brendan asked me to give him Bidoof account, but he was given a different account and was not happy with it (even when another player with Bidoof account was already in his team).

Pick up your favorite Pokemon name that you would like to use in Gates to Infinity M-FM. If you think that your favorite Pokemon name would be the same as another person, you can also pick up your secondary favorite choice (and tertiary if you want). There are about 649 Pokemon names total, so I doubt that there would be any conflicts. Once you pick up your favorite name, then there will be a chance that the chosen name could be used by you as your game account when this game starts. You can do this before even the sign-ups begin. Make sure that you send your choice to me via PM and not post it somewhere in the forum - we are going to use anonymous accounts, after all.

Even if this game will not start immediately after FM XVIII or gets suspended, this experiment will still be interesting to watch! And of course, people that agree to participate in the experiment will have higher priorities to join this game before it starts! And don't worry about account creation process - when everyone will be ready, I'll ask Raptorblaze to create your chosen account names. We can even reuse some of the 20 names from Nasty Rumours if you decide to pick one.

So come and join my new experiment - even if you are not actually planning to play M-FM Gates to Infinity!

I dibs on Ho-oh

[Fragos]

I dibs on Ho-oh

Heh, so you chose to act openly, huh? So does that means when the game starts everyone will recognise M-FM Ho-Oh as you? Is that what you really want?

[ypmagic]

Like they're gonna know my role.

[Fragos]

Alright, I guess that the rest of you will get the idea. I have never seen ypmagic in FM games before, though. But I should tell you beforehand that SC2 Mafia uses anonymous names in each game, so it should be natural that forum games should also use anonymous names. Of course this rule does not affect the plethora of S-FMs that are currently still running on the forums. But keep in mind - when you are in game it is best for you to act like a different person.

Anyway, the experiment has only just started, and I have not received any PMs yet (not even from ypmagic, so I guess his choice is set up). Pick a Pokemon account name that would be used in M-FM Gates to Infinity later!

[BorkBot]

so it should be natural that forum games should also use anonymous names.

It's not up to you to decide that.

Are you going to fix your OoO?

[Damus_Graves]

Alright, I guess that the rest of you will get the idea. I have never seen ypmagic in FM games before, though. But I should tell you beforehand that SC2 Mafia uses anonymous names in each game, so it should be natural that forum games should also use anonymous names. Of course this rule does not affect the plethora of S-FMs that are currently still running on the forums. But keep in mind - when you are in game it is best for you to act like a different person.

Anyway, the experiment has only just started, and I have not received any PMs yet (not even from ypmagic, so I guess his choice is set up). Pick a Pokemon account name that would be used in M-FM Gates to Infinity later!

Because I didn't send you an image of the pokemon I choose

It's not up to you to decide that.

Are you going to fix your OoO?

Hi borkbot. :3

[Slaol]

I want Gatomon.

[Fragos]

I decided to remove Spy from the role list and instead add another intersting role, the Corrupt Mayor.

He can reveal himself to town as "Mayor", giving Trisksters extra voting power. Town, Outalws and Rebels will be in an irky situation, but it is important to note that both variants of Mayor can win with Enforcers, making cooperation with then more profitable for Tricksters.

[Cryptonic]

Is there a limit to how many vests/guns a player can hold at any given time? Like... can I be holding 3 guns after the Blacksmith dies?

[BorkBot]

I decided to remove Spy from the role list and instead add another intersting role, the Corrupt Mayor.

He can reveal himself to town as "Mayor", giving Trisksters extra voting power. Town, Outalws and Rebels will be in an irky situation, but it is important to note that both variants of Mayor can win with Enforcers, making cooperation with then more profitable for Tricksters.

It's mechanically impossible to have both a corrupt mayor and a mayor if you use the vote tag system. Just so you know.

[Fragos]

It's mechanically impossible to have both a corrupt mayor and a mayor if you use the vote tag system. Just so you know.

I know that already. Either there will be a Town Mayor, a Corrupt Mayor, or no Mayor at all. Why I would put there 2 Mayors anyway?

[Cryptonic]

I've asked it 3 times, man. Are you just ignoring me?

[Fragos]

Whoops, sorry, have not noticed yet. There is no limit on that, however roleblocks will prevent the player from using any vests or guns.

[Fragos]

Now submitted for M-FM XIX poll. Feel free to ask more questions.

[ypmagic]

Now submitted for M-FM XIX poll. Feel free to ask more questions.

Yeah. Gods of Olympus or you want to host that ElectroManiac and Arsonists vs Town together?

[Fragos]

Like CmG said, your setup is a bit difficult to read. So you need to make your setup for others (including me) easier to understand.

I know that you wanted to show a good RP, but you won't get enough support from other people if your game is difficult to understand. So right now I'm not considering your offer. It will depend on votes of those who can support you.

[Fragos]

As you may have noticed, I'm looking for a reliable person who can co-host this game together with me in the future. Send a Private Message to me if you are intereted.

[Fragos]

Don't forget the the primary attractive option of this setup is that you can choose your FM name by yourself! Just make sure that your name will be anonymous to everyone.

Normally I already have a list of the M-FM names that are going to be used in Gates to Infinity, but if this game become voted as next M-FM I will give you a chance to pick an FM account name of your own (while sticking to a Pokemon theme).

Pick up your favorite Pokemon name that you would like to use in Gates to Infinity M-FM. If you think that your account name would be the same as another person, you can also pick up your secondary favorite choice (and tertiary if you want). There are about 649 Pokemon names total (plus even more from X and Y), so I doubt that there would be any conflicts. Once you pick up your favorite name, then the chosen name will be used by you as your game account when this game starts. Make sure that you send your choice to me via PM and not post it somewhere in the forum - we are going to use anonymous accounts, after all. You can even sign up yourself anonymously if you want.

Don't worry about account creation process - when everyone is ready, I'll ask Raptorblaze or any other admin to create your chosen account names. We can even reuse some of the 20 names from Nasty Rumours if you decide to pick one.