Framer Framing Options

[louiswill]

Framer currently frame target as marandom.---right? I haven't used to new pairing yet.

Anyway,

The thing is, in My setup, I intend to make Arsonist the main threat to everyone,

Basically, I disable sheriff's ability to check out MAFIA. --Yea, baby. But that makes framers useless ....

So I'd like framer is able to frame target as arsonist or something else.

I suggest gives Framer:

Option: Framed target pairing with mafioso
Option: Framed target pairing with Killer
Option: Framed target pairing with arsonist
Option: Framed target pairing with mass murderer
Option: Framed target pairing with witch(is it still loner?)
(above option can only choose one)

[Deantwo]

A*Framer*is capable of framing a player at night. If a Sheriff investigates your target, he will appear as "a member of the Mafia". If an Investigator investigates your target, his role will appear to be one of the currently living Mafia roles orKilling Neutrals.

https://wiki.sc2mafia.com/en/index.php/Framer

that's what it say on the Wiki... so no... you need to read about how the Framer work more

also read this:
https://wiki.sc2mafia.com/en/index.ph...stigativeClues

[Voss]

Framer currently frame target as mafioso.---right? I haven't used to new pairing yet.

false.

[Voss]

that's what it say on the Wiki... so no... you have how the Framer work

framer can also frame as an alive evil neutral.

[Deantwo]

framer can also frame as an alive evil neutral.

yeah was wondering why the Wiki didn't say that when i was copying the qoute... but i am using my smartphone and editing posts and wiki is a little annoying... plus i want it comfrimed

[louiswill]

Anyway, I was trying to make the effect stable, because I try to make arsonist the major threat..

MAking some awkward setup such as 4 mafias non killing role with 2 arsonist rest town non investigators plus some troll neutrals.

with Agent and kidnapper, i personally think this idea is workable, just the framer thing is not going together.

After I disable sheriff's ability to check mafia...I hope framer can always frame target as arsonist instead of possible witch.

[Deantwo]

After I disable sheriff's ability to check mafia...I hope framer can always frame target as arsonist instead of possible witch.

Sheriff can't detect Witch... so... no worry about that...

but yeah what would happen if Sheriff can't detect Mafia... and the Framer frames he's target?

[louiswill]

Sheriff can't detect Witch... so... no worry about that...

but yeah what would happen if Sheriff can't detect Mafia... and the Framer frames he's target?

when sheriff become less useful, so will framer...That becomes a problem. That's why I ask if we can make it a host option or something.

If framer's target become witch, then sheriff won't be able to walk into the trap at all.

[Deantwo]

when sheriff become less useful, so will framer...That becomes a problem. That's why I ask if we can make it a host option or something.

If framer's target become witch, then sheriff won't be able to walk into the trap at all.

or simply change it so Framer only frame people as whatever Sheriff can detect ^^;

but that would limit the results that the Investigator will see when checking a framed person...

[Cryptonic]

or simply change it so Framer only frame people as whatever Sheriff can detect ^^;

but that would limit the results that the Investigator will see when checking a framed person...

No, it makes sense to frame as any living evil player. What you're suggesting wouldn't be good because if the only thing a Sheriff can find is a SK, but the only NK is an Arsonist, it'll be obvious that there is a Framer when a Sheriff finds a SK in a setup w/ an Arsonist.

Why the hell would anybody put in a Sheriff that can't detect Mafia.. I don't understand the point of having such a useless role in the game that can only detect one role that may or may not even be in the game. If any change should be done, it's that Sheriff should always detect Mafia no matter what.

What is your reason for making Sheriff not able to detect Mafia..?

[Deantwo]

No, it makes sense to frame as any living evil player. What you're suggesting wouldn't be good because if the only thing a Sheriff can find is a SK, but the only NK is an Arsonist, it'll be obvious that there is a Framer when a Sheriff finds a SK in a setup w/ an Arsonist.

that's not what i meant... it should still follow the "only if there is one alive" rule... i simply meant as to add that rule on top of it... if it isn't already there

the way i understand the Framer's frame-ability:
when he frame someone... a random role is picked out of the list of living scrum (Mafia and Neutral Evil (-Witch))... this mean that if multiple Investigators AND Sheriffs are checking the same framed target... they'll all get the same results...

the problem i foresee is:
if Sheriff can't detect Mafia and the randomly picked role is a Mafia role... then the result would be NS...

so the problem i see with my supposed change was:
if Sheriff options say that he can only detect SKs...
any Investigator that check a framed target would always get the result for SK...

[Voss]

that's not what i meant... it should still follow the "only if there is one alive" rule... i simply meant as to add that rule on top of it... if it isn't already there

the way i understand the Framer's frame-ability:
when he frame someone... a random role is picked out of the list of living scrum (Mafia and Neutral Evil (-Witch))... this mean that if multiple Investigators AND Sheriffs are checking the same framed target... they'll all get the same results...

the problem i foresee is:
if Sheriff can't detect Mafia and the randomly picked role is a Mafia role... then the result would be NS...

so the problem i see with my supposed change was:
if Sheriff options say that he can only detect SKs...
any Investigator that check a framed target would always get the result for SK...

this is a good point. kinda what i've been asking all along. but i can't find the people to test it with me. =(

[Deantwo]

this is a good point. kinda what i've been asking all along. but i can't find the people to test it with me. =(

wish i could... but yeah... can't play SC2... and i don't think your in EU either... ^^;

[ika]

wish i could... but yeah... can't play SC2... and i don't think your in EU either... ^^;

you know ppl can trafer servers now?

[Deantwo]

you know ppl can trafer servers now?

haven't played since that was changed/added... so i keep forgetting you can now ^^; but yeah i know

[CmG]

how about letting the frame carry over to the grave yard. So if somebody gets framed the night he dies he will show up as the role he was framed? :P

[Deantwo]

how about letting the frame carry over to the grave yard. So if somebody gets framed the night he dies he will show up as the role he was framed? :P

would kinda make the Framer really powerful ^^; and pretty much replace the Janitor

[CmG]

Nope since it doesn't erase lw's It's only for wifom purposes.

[Deantwo]

Nope since it doesn't erase lw's It's only for wifom purposes.

then it'll just be an annoying choir for everyone to write they're role in their LW...

[CmG]

Many ppl won't do this. It helps scum nevertheless

[Cryptonic]

Many ppl won't do this. It helps scum nevertheless

i mean, we already have silent sheriffs dying n5 and leaving no lw, but i'm sure everyone will put their role in their lw if this was implemented :P

[CmG]

i mean, we already have silent sheriffs dying n5 and leaving no lw, but i'm sure everyone will put their role in their lw if this was implemented :P

A+

[louiswill]

so the problem i see with my supposed change was:
if Sheriff options say that he can only detect SKs...
any Investigator that check a framed target would always get the result for SK...

That is the problem I tried to solve,

but I can not come up an idea other than make it a host option.

Considering coding difficulty, it is hard to solve.

@ Cryptonic

As I mentioned earlier, I made sheriff can not detect mafia because I try to make neutrals the primary threat to everyone instead.

By down powering sheriff, mafia gain more living space in my save.

[Cryptonic]

@ Cryptonic

As I mentioned earlier, I made sheriff can not detect mafia because I try to make neutrals the primary threat to everyone instead.

By down powering sheriff, mafia gain more living space in my save.

But that's doing the opposite. To make Neutrals more powerful, you'd need to make them immune to Sheriff.

[louiswill]

But that's doing the opposite. To make Neutrals more powerful, you'd need to make them immune to Sheriff.

I made janitor has infinite clean power, framer and gf immu investigating, Consig see EXactly role, kidnapper can jail their own man for immunity, beguiler and agent act every night, I set a witch to help mafia, I even put a jester to make issue worse, like that...

I can not do more than that.

There are only two mafias. I also took away half mafia's certainty of killing power(i.e no premade godfather, agent and beguiler can not turn into mafioso etc etc) in case they become too OP for a neutral save.

The thing is that framer can not effectively deal with sheriff in this save, make me really annoyed that sheriffs wont walk right in to traps.