Role: Hacker

[Espozito]

Yep, again the story with the hacker, but this time another idea.

Role: Hacker
Alignment: Town
Goal: Lynch the scum!

Abilities: Choose one target at night to see his/her night feedback.

Options:

Can track invetigation results - Default: OFF
Detects witch controls despite of the setup - Default: ON
Detects dousing despite of the setup - Default: ON

Inv Pairings: ---.

[Azuriae]

You know, I really like this idea. It's definitely a role I would love to play; and it actually sounds pretty balanced to me.

How would that work with, say, the Witch, for example? Would he actually get the message of ''You made X person visit X''? (or whatever it is since I haven't played Sc2Mafia in a while.)

[madbird20]

I'm not entirely sure about this. It seems to be some sort of a buffed Consig, since it would, as far as I understand, learn his target's role by the night feedback, AND learn something about who they targeted. Lemme make sure I got this right:

Hacker targets Sheriff, Sheriff targets a Doctor. Sheriff gets "Your target is not suspicious" and the hacker 'hacks' the night feedback. The Hacker now knows the player he targeted is Sheriff, and knows that the person the sheriff targeted was not suspicious.

In that scenario, I see Hacker being the exact same thing as Consig, cause he wouldn't know who sheriff targeted, but he *would* know that his(the Hacker's) target was a Sheriff. If it *does* know who the Sheriff targeted, then I see it as being a buffed Consig.

[Azuriae]

I'm not entirely sure about this. It seems to be some sort of a buffed Consig, since it would, as far as I understand, learn his target's role by the night feedback, AND learn something about who they targeted. Lemme make sure I got this right:

Hacker targets Sheriff, Sheriff targets a Doctor. Sheriff gets "Your target is not suspicious" and the hacker 'hacks' the night feedback. The Hacker now knows the player he targeted is Sheriff, and knows that the person the sheriff targeted was not suspicious.

In that scenario, I see Hacker being the exact same thing as Consig, cause he wouldn't know who sheriff targeted, but he *would* know that his(the Hacker's) target was a Sheriff. If it *does* know who the Sheriff targeted, then I see it as being a buffed Consig.

As far as I understood this, the only time he would learn the identities of his target's targets would be for roles such as Bus Driver and Witch, which does reveal the name of the targets in the feedbacks.

Also, keep in mind that there are a lot of roles that doesn't move at night; which would make his night action useless (Unless, of course, the person gets a feedback such as a douse or jester annoy.)

[madbird20]

As far as I understood this, the only time he would learn the identities of his target's targets would be for roles such as Bus Driver and Witch, which does reveal the name of the targets in the feedbacks.

Also, keep in mind that there are a lot of roles that doesn't move at night; which would make his night action useless (Unless, of course, the person gets a feedback such as a douse or jester annoy.)

It's definitely an interesting role, but if it works as you've described, its helpfulness to its team would fluctuate greatly. Targeting a Mayor would be detrimental, cause he would learn nothing from the night feedback, whereas a Consigliere would learn the target's role, which would be far more helpful as he could lead the Godfather to kill an unrevealed Mayor, or avoid killing a Survivor/Jester, depending on what his target was. In the case of targeting a Bus Driver/Witch, then the Hacker would be more helpful than a Consig, as he would learn the target's role and the identities of those they targeted.

If you could find a way to stabilize its usefulness, I would absolutely love this role. Maybe make it so that he can pierce settings? (Learning if a target is doused/witched when the settings dictate that the target does not know he was doused/witched, etc.)

[Espozito]

Let me explain:
The hacker does hack only the feedback you get in the end of the night, such as:
role-blocked
blackmailed
attacked (doesn't state as healed/protected/immune/killed)
busdriven
and so foth

Hacker doesn't know whom his target visited last night. So, even if you know who is sheriff you can't know whom he targeted. Btw, the "buffed consig" is the reason for option "Can't detect investigation results (from any investigative role).
Meaning also that you won't get feedback "you have successfully switched player a with player b" for bd. Hacker will only know if his own target was switched and that's all.

[Espozito]

It's definitely an interesting role, but if it works as you've described, its helpfulness to its team would fluctuate greatly. Targeting a Mayor would be detrimental, cause he would learn nothing from the night feedback, whereas a Consigliere would learn the target's role, which would be far more helpful as he could lead the Godfather to kill an unrevealed Mayor, or avoid killing a Survivor/Jester, depending on what his target was. In the case of targeting a Bus Driver/Witch, then the Hacker would be more helpful than a Consig, as he would learn the target's role and the identities of those they targeted.

You are messing Hacker with Detective. Hacker doesn't know whom his target visited. He only gets all the messages that his target gets int he end of the night.

[ika]

You are messing Hacker with Detective. Hacker doesn't know whom his target visited. He only gets all the messages that his target gets int he end of the night.

i think you mean lookout

det: follows to see who they vist
lookout: sees who visted target

its more like hes a lookout watching self type thing

[madbird20]

Ahh, okay. So it's way different than what I thought it was. In that light, it seems to be more of a Town role than a Mafia role. I see it as being a kind of "Lie detector" in that if somebody claims "I was attacked/Rbed/blackmailed" or whatever, the Hacker can then call them out saying "Nope! You're lying", and Mafia really wouldn't need a lie detector, as they're the ones doing the lying(Besides neutrals, in which case Consigliere can find out their role).

It could work as a Mafia role, but imo it would be inferior to the Consigliere in that setting, as Mafia would much rather know who to kill rather than who's lying about being RBed/Attacked/whatever.

In a Town setting, I could see him being much more useful, as he could potentially know if someone was lying about their night feedback and prevent a mislynch, or push for a lynch on a scum who was claiming to be attacked to pull suspicion off a RBed Godfather.

(Btw thank you for being so patient with me XD I really should have waited for you to fully explain the role rather than jumping in head-on with my silly assumptions)

[Azuriae]

Ahh, okay. So it's way different than what I thought it was. In that light, it seems to be more of a Town role than a Mafia role. I see it as being a kind of "Lie detector" in that if somebody claims "I was attacked/Rbed/blackmailed" or whatever, the Hacker can then call them out saying "Nope! You're lying", and Mafia really wouldn't need a lie detector, as they're the ones doing the lying(Besides neutrals, in which case Consigliere can find out their role).

It could work as a Mafia role, but imo it would be inferior to the Consigliere in that setting, as Mafia would much rather know who to kill rather than who's lying about being RBed/Attacked/whatever.

In a Town setting, I could see him being much more useful, as he could potentially know if someone was lying about their night feedback and prevent a mislynch, or push for a lynch on a scum who was claiming to be attacked to pull suspicion off a RBed Godfather.

(Btw thank you for being so patient with me XD I really should have waited for you to fully explain the role rather than jumping in head-on with my silly assumptions)

I misunderstood too actually; so you're not alone.

But as pointed out, in this situation, he would definitely be more of a town role than a mafia role in my eyes, too.
I'd rather get a Consig!

[Slaol]

I'd prefer to see this as a Town role. Something like 'Therapist'. It would be the inverse of Lookout. Seeing visitors (and their own information). I see it as more of a Town role.

[creedkingsx]

I'd prefer to see this as a Town role. Something like 'Therapist'. It would be the inverse of Lookout. Seeing visitors (and their own information). I see it as more of a Town role.

Agree with this. Mafia doesn't particularly need a role like this when they already have Consig. Investigative roles are generally useless for mafia. Serve little purpose, anyway.

[Azuriae]

I'd prefer to see this as a Town role. Something like 'Therapist'. It would be the inverse of Lookout. Seeing visitors (and their own information). I see it as more of a Town role.

Therapist? Weak.
I suggest the name Voyeur.

[creedkingsx]

Therapist? Weak.
I suggest the name Voyeur.

vo·yeur
/voiˈyər/
Noun
A person who gains sexual pleasure from watching others when they are naked or engaged in sexual activity.
A person who enjoys seeing the pain or distress of others.

wut

[Jim]

Yea not needed for mafia, but when have hackers been town good guys is another question.

[Slaol]

Therapist? Weak.
I suggest the name Voyeur.

I don't much care what the name is. Therapist is the first name I saw attached to this type of role.

[Azuriae]

vo·yeur
/voiˈyər/
Noun
A person who gains sexual pleasure from watching others when they are naked or engaged in sexual activity.
A person who enjoys seeing the pain or distress of others.

wut

;)

[louiswill]

Except it is a mafia, I love it above all. Aren't hackers loners in real life...

I have a suggestion:

-------------------------------

Role: Hacker

Neutral benign

Ability:
1. steal and edit targets' last will
Or
2. break voting system : (Make 1 vote appears as 2 to everyone next day)

Win condition: Kill all investigating roles. consig, invest, lookout, det, sheriff

Investigating message: Same as spy.

--------------------------------
THE END.

[Espozito]

Hm, I think you are all right. This role is more town aligned.
About the name: Hacker may be a good guy. RPly, he hacks in the town cameras to see what happens in town (to his exact target). But it's too dark at night so he can't know who performed an action on hacker's target, but knows the feedback.

[TheDarkestLight]

Yep, again the story with the hacker, but this time another idea.

Role: Hacker
Alignment: Town
Goal: Lynch the scum!

Abilities: Choose one target at night to see his/her night feedback.

Options:

Can track invetigation results - Default: OFF
Becomes Mafioso alone - ON

Inv Pairings: ---.

Seems legit.

[Espozito]

Seems legit.

fixed.

Also added options wich MAY allow Hacker to know if his target was witched/doused despite of the setup (even if "victim knows he's controlled/doused" is OFF)

[Slaol]

fixed.

Also added options wich MAY allow Hacker to know if his target was witched/doused despite of the setup (even if "victim knows he's controlled/doused" is OFF)

Unneeded. Just have them see
'Your target was visited by a Sheriff'
'Your target was visited by a Framer'
'Your target was visited by a Witch'

Done.

[HammerKick]

I was thinking about this first:
Hacker visits a target.
He gets feedback like this:
"Your target has been checked tonight" - Invest/Consig, sheriff, lookout, det...
"Your target was visited by a doc" - Doc visit "Your target was attacked and healed!" - Doc heal

etc etc

[Slaol]

I was thinking about this first:
Hacker visits a target.
He gets feedback like this:
"Your target has been checked tonight" - Invest/Consig, sheriff, lookout, det...
"Your target was visited by a doc" - Doc visit "Your target was attacked and healed!" - Doc heal

etc etc

I don't think it should group roles like Investigator.
Lookout doesn't group things, if it is effectively the inverse of Lookout it should just give the role exactly.
And no need to say 'attacked and healed'. If he is visited by a Doctor and a Mafioso/Gf/Sk, you will know he was attacked and healed.

[Espozito]

No! You get everything wrong! Hacker doesn't know what role did visit his target. He gets only his target's feedback, that's all!

Example:

a) Hacker visits Sheriff, Sheriff checks Citizen. Hacker gets message
"Your target's feedback is:
Your target is not suspicous."
b) Hacker visits Citizen, Citizen got roleblocked. Hacker gets message:
"Your target has been role-blocked tonight"

[Slaol]

No! You get everything wrong! Hacker doesn't know what role did visit his target. He gets only his target's feedback, that's all!

Example:

a) Hacker visits Sheriff, Sheriff checks Citizen. Hacker gets message
"Your target's feedback is:
Your target is not suspicous."
b) Hacker visits Citizen, Citizen got roleblocked. Hacker gets message:
"Your target has been role-blocked tonight"

Well that is basically useless. I can think of 1 instance in which that will help.

[Espozito]

1. This can be counter to fake-bm
2. In case scum attacked immune scum, Hacker can find who was attacked
3. Someone was witched and doesn't know about it even
4. Same with doused
5. If "Detects investigation results" is ON, can find investigative town roles or consigliere (idk if it's op though, that's why it's OFF by default)

[louiswill]

No! You get everything wrong! Hacker doesn't know what role did visit his target. He gets only his target's feedback, that's all!

Example:

a) Hacker visits Sheriff, Sheriff checks Citizen. Hacker gets message
"Your target's feedback is:
Your target is not suspicous."
b) Hacker visits Citizen, Citizen got roleblocked. Hacker gets message:
"Your target has been role-blocked tonight"

totally saw that coming...misunderstand everywhere.

did you design it as a counter spy though?

does it have to be a mafia?

[Espozito]

totally saw that coming...misunderstand everywhere.

did you design it as a counter spy though?

does it have to be a mafia?

He can see spy feedback as investigation result (in other words, depends on options). Plus I've already changed the role alignment to Town.