Opinions on Jester's in Forum Mafia

[Auckmid]

This is just a poll I wanted to make on the general consencus towards the Jester. While the Jester is hands down one of the funnest roles to play as in SC2 Mafia, it's seriously is starting to get out of hand in Forum Mafia. How come in the latest game of FM, lynching the Jester would cause one third of the voters to suicide? Yes, in epicmafia, lynching the Fool would cause the game to instantly end with everyone else loseing(pretty harsh). However, FM isn't meant to be based off of the mechanics of Epicmafia, or even SC2 Mafia. As a site based FM game, it's meant to be based off of the mechanics of sites such as mafiascum in which the mentality is meant to be "Scumhunt" and "Thinking" instead of "Follow the Sheriff". So here is mafiascums official jester page...

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Jester

Jester is held in profound distaste partly because it is easy to win with (any village idiot can get lynched Day 1) and partly because even in the best case it punishes Town for lynching someone who is not of their alignment.

^Note, this is assuming that there aren't any penaltys for jester lynching

Jester balances like a guaranteed mislynch. To balance this, sometimes when Jesters die the moderator enacts some pro-Town act to counterbalance this; for instance, the player who hammers a Jester wins a One-Shot Vig kill.
Most people will probably still tell you to simply not use Jesters though.

So basicaly what the page says is that even if there were to be no penalty for lynching Jester, Jester would still be an anti-town role which hurts the town because of forcing an effective no lynch, and should generaly be avoided.


Then we look back at our latest FM.

Pertinent rulings: If you are lynched, a third of all the players who voted to lynch you (rounding up) will suicide that night.

So, if you lynched the jester first day above ground last FM, 6-7 players would die.



You can argue that the mafiascum mentality is very different from SC2 Mafia. Yes, half the people at mafiascum are total pro's, no lynching is very rare a mafiascum unless there is a good reason(unlike here where lynching D1 is illegal) and most importantly, a single mafiascum day can often last over a week in real time, giving them much more time to reach a concencus. However, the direction in which people have wanted FM to be pushed in since the very beggining has been "Less luck, more skill". So how come if a player is acting very scummy, lynching him may in fact be a very poor move which causes 1/6 of all players to drop dead? While Yayap and other god-mods may have some psychic powers to know when someone is being scummy because they are scum and when someone is Jestering, most of us mortals have a very hard time telling a good Jester apart from scum. So guess what. If the scummy person is Jester and you vote for him, 1/3 chance of suicide, so the very possibility of a Jester automaticaly causes people to become uber cautious and want "Solid leads" before making an actual lynch. Citizens can't provide solid leads, so they end up turning into sheep in a game of "Follow the PR", being unable to provide much information other then piece together info from the PRs and say voice opinions on who looks scummy(but could of course be a Jester which causes a massive penalty if lynched, so maybe we should wait fo better leads). Citizens are only important if you make the important

Note, if you do not or have not played in a forum mafia game, please don't vote on the poll.

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[Duzero]

I don't see a poll

[Auckmid]

I don't see a poll

My bad

[Auckmid]

I'm voting btw. I shall not lie and say that I am impartial.

[creedkingsx]

I say either scrap all together or leave the huge penalty forcing players to actually think and not just lynch, no punishment worry.
My preference? I want to say scrap, but my SC2Mafia player wants to keep.

[Duzero]

Keep him, what would mafia be without jester WIFOM?

[AppleyNO]

Well, I haven't played the full FM, but in my games he kills one person.
1/3 is actually really funny to me for some reason.

[Nick]

Make it last voter (hammer) suicide. Or last 3 voters suicide. At least now Jester will be more beneficial to mafia and town alike.

EDIT: Maybe first and last will be better.

[Luna]

Jester is one of my favourite roles, but it's far too easy to win as in FM. I never entertained the idea of a Jester in my setup so using my rulings is a bit misguiding, it was just there for the WIFOM threat ^^

[Fatalis]

The penalty shouldn't be that hard
Other then that It's kinda ok

[Pokemon Trainer Red]

Why try to change the objective of a Jester, just make one person commit suicide over the jester's guilt.

[Luna]

Why try to change the objective of a Jester, just make one person commit suicide over the jester's guilt.

A small part of the reason that Jesters can win so easily is because penalties like this are usually quite inconsequential. The mentality usually ends up being 'Might as well lynch him, worst comes to worst he's a Citizen or a Jester'. It might seem like a Jester lynch hurts the town because it uses up their one lynch, but in most situations the town has more than enough time on their hands and the Jester lynch train gives the town information anyway. In a forum game it's so easy for a Jester get lynched by any competent player - you have so long to slip in subtle scummy behaviour and look like you got caught out (in fact it's so easy to do that these days that I don't know why Jesters resort to the 'annoying troll' strategy to get lynched).

I thought that a Jester with a harsh penalty would inject some element of WIFOM to the Neutrals in each Vault in FMXIII. No one even brought it up - no one cares about Jesters anymore, and having such a small penalty won't change that xD

[RookRanger]

so wise

[CmG]

A small part of the reason that Jesters can win so easily is because penalties like this are usually quite inconsequential. The mentality usually ends up being 'Might as well lynch him, worst comes to worst he's a Citizen or a Jester'. It might seem like a Jester lynch hurts the town because it uses up their one lynch, but in most situations the town has more than enough time on their hands and the Jester lynch train gives the town information anyway. In a forum game it's so easy for a Jester get lynched by any competent player - you have so long to slip in subtle scummy behaviour and look like you got caught out (in fact it's so easy to do that these days that I don't know why Jesters resort to the 'annoying troll' strategy to get lynched).

I thought that a Jester with a harsh penalty would inject some element of WIFOM to the Neutrals in each Vault in FMXIII. No one even brought it up - no one cares about Jesters anymore, and having such a small penalty won't change that xD

No we just know that you are no fan of jesters and therefore NEVER WOULD RUN 1 IN YOUR SETUP!!!!! WE TOTaLY CARE FOR JESTERS!...


Anyways. I say scrap him its too easy to win with jesters. People get easily frustrated over the huge quantity of the day posts. So they just lynch at some time to shut people up. Just look at FM 12 take 1, where Blazer the jester was so damn annoying that we just lynched him, to shut him up.

Seriously a terrible role.

[Dont Shoot Me]

The only thing that nerfing the penalty for lynching a jester would do is make it even easier to win as jester. If you have a problem with the jester role then you should either buff the penalty for lynching a jester (to at least 1/2 of all voters die), or remove the role completely.

[FrostByte]

Opinions on Jester's in Forum Mafia

Opinion on jester's what in forum mafia?

Spoiler : POOP :

PLURAL NOUNS DO NOT REQUIRE AN APOSTROPHE BEFORE THE S
AUCKMID, YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT

[Yayap]

I think FM-X was a good example of what a huge penalty could do. You forget that scum can die to jester as well.

If you followed the voting patterns in fm-x you'll find out that the jester hurt mafia more than town because mafia un-voted for no reason and became really obvious. Not to mention that it also killed an arsonist = less kpn

in fm12, the penalty was so minimal that scum didn't even care about the jester...

I'm all for high penalties against lynching jesters, if you spot one, get someone to shoot him at night instead.

[creedkingsx]

I think FM-X was a good example of what a huge penalty could do. You forget that scum can die to jester as well.

If you followed the voting patterns in fm-x you'll find out that the jester hurt mafia more than town because mafia un-voted for no reason and became really obvious. Not to mention that it also killed an arsonist = less kpn

in fm12, the penalty was so minimal that scum didn't even care about the jester...

I'm all for high penalties against lynching jesters, if you spot one, get someone to shoot him at night instead.

Agree with this a lot.
After the first reroll, nobody really cared about lynching Blazer becuase the philosophy came to be that a large part of the actions would be random anyway.

[Auckmid]

I'm all for high penalties against lynching jesters, if you spot one, get someone to shoot him at night instead.

How can you do that? Yes, in FMXII, Ambient was a super obvious jester. The only reason he got lynched was dumb town completely trusting the last will of a mafia member, and scum didn't realy care that much that he was probably a Jester because it made little difference(I had no night ability, so might as well draw out a wasted lynch). However, most people know the sort of things which make someone scummy, so it realy shouldn't be that hard to act subtely scummy enough to get lynched, then game gets decided by random.org.

[Yayap]

How can you do that?

What I mean is, if the jester is laying low then both scum and town will be voting for him and both should be penalized.

If you get the obvious jester play that is super annoying spamming posts, then vig or gun holder should shoot him.

[Nick]

May I know the issue here is:

1) Impact of jester suicide is too great

2) Too easy to win as jester

3) Jester is irrelevant to gameplay

4) We are too stupid for jester to work in FM

Which?

[Auckmid]

May I know the issue here is:

1) Impact of jester suicide is too great

2) Too easy to win as jester

3) Jester is irrelevant to gameplay

4) We are too stupid for jester to work in FM

Which?

Poll was created with 1 and 2 in mind.

[Bujeebus]

What if the jester has to be lynched after day x (3?) or else he doesn't get the win/suicides. That will keep them from being obvious, and let there be bigger penalties for lynching because he is harder to win as.

[Blazer]

What if the jester has to be lynched after day x (3?) or else he doesn't get the win/suicides. That will keep them from being obvious, and let there be bigger penalties for lynching because he is harder to win as.

I thought you hadn't played Forum Mafia yet.

Maybe obv jester is godfather?