[QUOTE=Sen;554757]No. Unless you play against your wincon while being part of a team, there's no gamethrowing.
A Jailor executing a confirmed Mayor "for the lulz" is gamethrowing, an Arsonist who decides that he'll only douse and burn Mafia suspects is not.
Being able to win with another faction is irrelevant; you're there to achieve your team's win condition, or to simply have fun, if you don't havce a team. If your team consists of yourself and nobody else, you are in no way forced to make the game easier for others, regardless of whether you can win with them or not.[/QUOTE]
That's why I said it's borderline. Some might consider it okay, while others might consider it as a throw.
Although if you're a witch and you use your night action to make the GF kill the rest of the mafia and get the GF and yourself lynched so town wins, that's pretty much throwing. But if you're a witch and you decide to control GF to dick over the mafia with the plan to get a solo win, that's perfectly acceptable. If your plan fails and gets you killed by town and town wins, then you don't get punished since you were at least trying to win (even if in a way that may be harder than winning with the mafia). If you make GF kill both mafia, claim a town PR and get GF lynched in the hopes that town will trust you until you get a solo win, that's also okay, even if it backfires and town figures it out right away. If you make GF kill both mafia, push for GF lynch, and then commit suicide so that town will win, then it's probably reportable since you weren't trying to win in that case.
Originally Posted by Sen
No. Unless you play against your wincon while being part of a team, there's no gamethrowing.
A Jailor executing a confirmed Mayor "for the lulz" is gamethrowing, an Arsonist who decides that he'll only douse and burn Mafia suspects is not.
Being able to win with another faction is irrelevant; you're there to achieve your team's win condition, or to simply have fun, if you don't havce a team. If your team consists of yourself and nobody else, you are in no way forced to make the game easier for others, regardless of whether you can win with them or not.
That's why I said it's borderline. Some might consider it okay, while others might consider it as a throw.
Although if you're a witch and you use your night action to make the GF kill the rest of the mafia and get the GF and yourself lynched so town wins, that's pretty much throwing. But if you're a witch and you decide to control GF to dick over the mafia with the plan to get a solo win, that's perfectly acceptable. If your plan fails and gets you killed by town and town wins, then you don't get punished since you were at least trying to win (even if in a way that may be harder than winning with the mafia). If you make GF kill both mafia, claim a town PR and get GF lynched in the hopes that town will trust you until you get a solo win, that's also okay, even if it backfires and town figures it out right away. If you make GF kill both mafia, push for GF lynch, and then commit suicide so that town will win, then it's probably reportable since you weren't trying to win in that case.
It would have to be zero-sum like roulette to work though (i.e. if everyone wins then nobody makes a profit, and if there are both winners and losers then the losers pay off the winners). And if everyone is wrong then everyone gets their points back and nobody wins or loses any points. Otherwise people would only bet when it's obvious who the mafia are going to kill next and make a profit.
And if you want to throw, do it in a private game with 14 friends.
My personal opinion on game-throwing is that if you're not on a team and throwing isn't unfair to any particular side, then I wouldn't really mind. Such as if you're serial killer, and all the mafia and neutrals are dead and it's only yourself vs. 6 town, if you decide to give up and let town win that's reasonable. Same goes for letting someone else win if you know you lost (such as if you're the last town-sided player and don't have a role that can eliminate the bad guys). Or if you're jester and ask mafia/vig to kill you for the lulz, it doesn't [I]really[/I] screw the game for anyone else, although it starts to get a little borderline (although it could also be a legitimate WIFOM strategy to make the mafia think you're vet or make town think you're mm and thus [I]not[/I] kill you at night).
What's really borderline for me is if you throwing or giving up makes it almost impossible for a certain side to win when they would have had at least some chance. So say you're SK and the mafia is winning (say, 4 town vs 3 mafia along with yourself). You have a chance to win by killing a mafia (making it 3-2 after mafia kill), then siding with town to lynch a mafia (3-1), then the next day it's 1-1 (or 2-1 if you hit the same guy as GF or GF hits you) and you try to get the town player to side with you to win. And town still has a chance too (say if you mess up and hit GF and GF hits you or there's a doc save so it's 3-1-1 and town lynches both of you). But if you decide to kill the confirmed town and vote with the mafia to make it a sure mafia win at the expense of both yourself and the town, it's kind of unfair to town.
Where it starts to really cross the line is if you can win with another faction (such as if you throw as a witch), and the worst is when you're part of a faction (town, mafia, triad, or cult) and you straight-up throw the game. That's when you're likely to get reported.
To be safe, always play to win unless you know you have zero chance of winning (such as if you're the last town player and you're a role that has no chance to win alone, such as an investigative role). Playing to lose is technically against the rules regardless of the situation.
It would have to be zero-sum like roulette to work though (i.e. if everyone wins then nobody makes a profit, and if there are both winners and losers then the losers pay off the winners). And if everyone is wrong then everyone gets their points back and nobody wins or loses any points. Otherwise people would only bet when it's obvious who the mafia are going to kill next and make a profit.
And if you want to throw, do it in a private game with 14 friends.
My personal opinion on game-throwing is that if you're not on a team and throwing isn't unfair to any particular side, then I wouldn't really mind. Such as if you're serial killer, and all the mafia and neutrals are dead and it's only yourself vs. 6 town, if you decide to give up and let town win that's reasonable. Same goes for letting someone else win if you know you lost (such as if you're the last town-sided player and don't have a role that can eliminate the bad guys). Or if you're jester and ask mafia/vig to kill you for the lulz, it doesn't really screw the game for anyone else, although it starts to get a little borderline (although it could also be a legitimate WIFOM strategy to make the mafia think you're vet or make town think you're mm and thus not kill you at night).
What's really borderline for me is if you throwing or giving up makes it almost impossible for a certain side to win when they would have had at least some chance. So say you're SK and the mafia is winning (say, 4 town vs 3 mafia along with yourself). You have a chance to win by killing a mafia (making it 3-2 after mafia kill), then siding with town to lynch a mafia (3-1), then the next day it's 1-1 (or 2-1 if you hit the same guy as GF or GF hits you) and you try to get the town player to side with you to win. And town still has a chance too (say if you mess up and hit GF and GF hits you or there's a doc save so it's 3-1-1 and town lynches both of you). But if you decide to kill the confirmed town and vote with the mafia to make it a sure mafia win at the expense of both yourself and the town, it's kind of unfair to town.
Where it starts to really cross the line is if you can win with another faction (such as if you throw as a witch), and the worst is when you're part of a faction (town, mafia, triad, or cult) and you straight-up throw the game. That's when you're likely to get reported.
To be safe, always play to win unless you know you have zero chance of winning (such as if you're the last town player and you're a role that has no chance to win alone, such as an investigative role). Playing to lose is technically against the rules regardless of the situation.
If someone really played that much then I am pretty sure that other players would be able to vouch and say "I see this guy online all the time, he might be legit." and there would be a trail of replays that could clear the person.
But let's say that each game takes 20 minutes on average and a player wins 12 points per game on average. That's 1667 games for 20k points, or 556 hours. A 60 day old account would correspond to about 9 hours a day of continuous play. Of course, points from achievements will bring that down somewhat, but it's fairly obvious that, while theoretically possible, such a player would be playing for an unhealthy amount of time and such an active player would be easily recognizable by anyone who is reasonably active during that same timespan. If even the active community can't recognize the player, it's pretty obvious that they didn't actually play out those games and they hacked their bank instead.
If someone really played that much then I am pretty sure that other players would be able to vouch and say "I see this guy online all the time, he might be legit." and there would be a trail of replays that could clear the person.
But let's say that each game takes 20 minutes on average and a player wins 12 points per game on average. That's 1667 games for 20k points, or 556 hours. A 60 day old account would correspond to about 9 hours a day of continuous play. Of course, points from achievements will bring that down somewhat, but it's fairly obvious that, while theoretically possible, such a player would be playing for an unhealthy amount of time and such an active player would be easily recognizable by anyone who is reasonably active during that same timespan. If even the active community can't recognize the player, it's pretty obvious that they didn't actually play out those games and they hacked their bank instead.
So if the lawyer's client becomes lynched but the lawyer remains alive I guess since they lose no matter what they would just do whatever they want to (including trolling). I wonder if the lawyer should commit suicide when their client is lynched.
And it also seems that the lawyer can be handed a free win just by night killing their client (or if they need to survive they basically become a vestless survivor, so it's a good idea to have that option turned on so lawyer can't just be given autowin by killing their client). And once the lawyer outs it appears to become very attractive for either faction to either lynch or night-kill the client (if they believe that the client is an opponent), since not only would that remove one opponent, but the lawyer would no longer have an incentive to side with the faction they believe their client is on.
Another idea I can think of would be if the lawyer is only required to survive if their client is night-killed - so if the lawyer dies but their client lives to the end they still win. If the client dies at night then the lawyer has to survive to win. If the lawyer dies and the client dies later on, the lawyer loses. And if the client is lynched the lawyer loses, of course, regardless of whether the lawyer lives or not.
So if the lawyer's client becomes lynched but the lawyer remains alive I guess since they lose no matter what they would just do whatever they want to (including trolling). I wonder if the lawyer should commit suicide when their client is lynched.
And it also seems that the lawyer can be handed a free win just by night killing their client (or if they need to survive they basically become a vestless survivor, so it's a good idea to have that option turned on so lawyer can't just be given autowin by killing their client). And once the lawyer outs it appears to become very attractive for either faction to either lynch or night-kill the client (if they believe that the client is an opponent), since not only would that remove one opponent, but the lawyer would no longer have an incentive to side with the faction they believe their client is on.
Another idea I can think of would be if the lawyer is only required to survive if their client is night-killed - so if the lawyer dies but their client lives to the end they still win. If the client dies at night then the lawyer has to survive to win. If the lawyer dies and the client dies later on, the lawyer loses. And if the client is lynched the lawyer loses, of course, regardless of whether the lawyer lives or not.
[B]Crimes Committed:[/B] Hacking, Griefing, Bank Hacking
[B]Your Account Name:[/B] mathchamp
[B]Summary:[/B] Used cheating tools to get everyone's roles (or at least the night chats) and revealed the triad, cult, and masons in his death note. Could also see other people's commands such as -jail. Bank file is also impossible.
Your Account Name: mathchamp Summary: Used cheating tools to get everyone's roles (or at least the night chats) and revealed the triad, cult, and masons in his death note. Could also see other people's commands such as -jail. Bank file is also impossible.
If "Execution always kills" is OFF, then the person you kidnapped can presumably be saved by a Doctor (or Bodyguard?) or from immunity (natural immunity only, not alert or vest).
Also note that Kidnapper only gets one kill (I don't think it can be changed like with Jailor executions).
And I've investigated people and seen crimes on N1. It probably depends on the order that the actions get executed in.
If "Execution always kills" is OFF, then the person you kidnapped can presumably be saved by a Doctor (or Bodyguard?) or from immunity (natural immunity only, not alert or vest).
Also note that Kidnapper only gets one kill (I don't think it can be changed like with Jailor executions).
And I've investigated people and seen crimes on N1. It probably depends on the order that the actions get executed in.
In a game I was in, I was Liaison, and player 4 was Escort.
On N3 I targeted 4, while 4 targeted my teammate. My teammate was still roleblocked despite the fact that I was roleblocking 4. When checking the replay, 4 sees the "you were roleblocked" message, but the roleblocking of my teammate still goes through. This seems to be an issue with the way which the order of actions is implemented for role blockers.
Additionally, the MM spreed at 4's house, killing both me and 4 (this part is not a bug).
EDIT: looks similar to this report: [url]https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/14157-Escort-Not-Blocking-Blockable-Escort[/url]
In a game I was in, I was Liaison, and player 4 was Escort.
On N3 I targeted 4, while 4 targeted my teammate. My teammate was still roleblocked despite the fact that I was roleblocking 4. When checking the replay, 4 sees the "you were roleblocked" message, but the roleblocking of my teammate still goes through. This seems to be an issue with the way which the order of actions is implemented for role blockers.
Additionally, the MM spreed at 4's house, killing both me and 4 (this part is not a bug).
So I wound up in the middle of a really ridiculous game and just rolled with it. In short, I drew Survivor, one guy cheated and revealed all the Triad players at the beginning of the game and then the Mayor started throwing.
[SPOILER=Game synopsis]
[LIST]
[*]I select the name "Three Escorts", referring to a previous game where I was a Mayor and there were three Escorts.
[*]I draw [COLOR="#FFFF00"]Survivor[/COLOR]. I can win with any faction as long as I live.
[*]Giordano Pacino (a Doctor) uses hacks to determine the Triad, and reveals them in public chat Day 1. I've been in a game with this guy before.
[*]Night 1 I use my vest. Triad and Serial Killer kill both Vigilantes.
[*]Mayor (Gamethrow Gumshoe) reveals on Day 2; Giordano is put up on trial, and claims Doctor, but is lynched 10-1. Mayor's vote counts 4 in this setup.
[*]Note that at this point I still intended to try to win with Town (unless things got bad for Town of course), especially with the revealed Triad.
[*]Night 2 I use my vest. Dragon Head tries to kill the Mayor, but the Mayor is protected by a Bodyguard. Dragon Head and Bodyguard die. The Serial Killer also targeted the Bodyguard. Dragon Head leaves a colourful last will.
[*]Mayor then proceeds to random lynch non-Triad players. I decide to just roll with it and follow Mayor even though he's probably throwing. I can win with anyone, right?
[*]Day 3 he votes up Aronne. Two town players try to vote up Lord Nihlus (who is Triad), but I vote with the Mayor, along with Lord Nihlus, to put Aronne up.
[*]He claims Lookout, but gets lynched 7-3. He flips Lookout.
[*]Most of town knows that Mayor is throwing at this point. And he has a rather appropriate name.
[*]Night 3 I use my vest. Both Triad and Serial Killer hit Duck, who was Detective.
[*]Day 4 Mayor votes up Enzo. Four players vote Saviero (who is Triad), including Lord Nihlus. I vote Enzo with the Mayor to put him up on trial before anyone else can put in their vote.
[*]Enzo gets lynched 7-2 and ragequits. He flips Serial Killer.
[*]With the neutral killing out of the way, I send a PM to Lord Nihlus stating that I am the Survivor and am siding with Triad.
[*]Night 4 I save my last vest. Triad kills the Spy.
[*]Day 5 Marcello Ferrari claims to be on Triad's side. Lord Nihlus wants the Mayor lynched. Mayor votes up Marcello Ferrari. He claims Interrogator (he isn't).
[*]I decide to vote Innocent under the assumption that if the Triad/Neutrals think he's actually evil they'll also vote innocent (everyone would have had to vote innocent to counter the Mayor's guilty vote), but if they think he's town they'll vote guilty and my vote won't matter. Everyone else votes guilty. He flips Detective.
[*]At this point there remains the Mayor, two Triad, a Neutral Evil (non-Cult), and myself. I tell the Triad to kill the Mayor (we win once he dies).
[*]Night 5 I use my last vest, since there's little reason for me to save it as the game is almost over. Triad tries to kill me instead of Mayor, but I survive.
[*]Day 6 Saviero (Enforcer) wants me lynched, since I was immune. I claim Survivor and Lord Nihlus (who I PMed earlier) backs me up. It doesn't really matter, though, since Mayor lynches Lord Nihlus on his own. He flips Interrogator.
[*]I tell Triad again to kill the Mayor and take the win.
[*]Night 6 I don't have any more vests. The Triad kills the Mayor this time and the game ends as a Triad victory despite the entire Triad being outed on Day 1. The last Neutral Evil turned out to be a Judge. He never talked (from what I recalled) and never called court.
[/LIST]
Note that had the Triad killed anyone else besides the Mayor at that point, they risked losing the game since the Mayor could have voted off the last Triad player had he wanted to, resulting in a potential Town Win (if Judge were killed) or Judge Win (if I were killed), instead of a guaranteed Triad Win.
[/SPOILER]
Note that this isn't meant to be a report, although if you want I can report the two players (the player who cheated and the Mayor).
So I wound up in the middle of a really ridiculous game and just rolled with it. In short, I drew Survivor, one guy cheated and revealed all the Triad players at the beginning of the game and then the Mayor started throwing.
Spoiler : Game synopsis :
I select the name "Three Escorts", referring to a previous game where I was a Mayor and there were three Escorts.
I draw Survivor. I can win with any faction as long as I live.
Giordano Pacino (a Doctor) uses hacks to determine the Triad, and reveals them in public chat Day 1. I've been in a game with this guy before.
Night 1 I use my vest. Triad and Serial Killer kill both Vigilantes.
Mayor (Gamethrow Gumshoe) reveals on Day 2; Giordano is put up on trial, and claims Doctor, but is lynched 10-1. Mayor's vote counts 4 in this setup.
Note that at this point I still intended to try to win with Town (unless things got bad for Town of course), especially with the revealed Triad.
Night 2 I use my vest. Dragon Head tries to kill the Mayor, but the Mayor is protected by a Bodyguard. Dragon Head and Bodyguard die. The Serial Killer also targeted the Bodyguard. Dragon Head leaves a colourful last will.
Mayor then proceeds to random lynch non-Triad players. I decide to just roll with it and follow Mayor even though he's probably throwing. I can win with anyone, right?
Day 3 he votes up Aronne. Two town players try to vote up Lord Nihlus (who is Triad), but I vote with the Mayor, along with Lord Nihlus, to put Aronne up.
He claims Lookout, but gets lynched 7-3. He flips Lookout.
Most of town knows that Mayor is throwing at this point. And he has a rather appropriate name.
Night 3 I use my vest. Both Triad and Serial Killer hit Duck, who was Detective.
Day 4 Mayor votes up Enzo. Four players vote Saviero (who is Triad), including Lord Nihlus. I vote Enzo with the Mayor to put him up on trial before anyone else can put in their vote.
Enzo gets lynched 7-2 and ragequits. He flips Serial Killer.
With the neutral killing out of the way, I send a PM to Lord Nihlus stating that I am the Survivor and am siding with Triad.
Night 4 I save my last vest. Triad kills the Spy.
Day 5 Marcello Ferrari claims to be on Triad's side. Lord Nihlus wants the Mayor lynched. Mayor votes up Marcello Ferrari. He claims Interrogator (he isn't).
I decide to vote Innocent under the assumption that if the Triad/Neutrals think he's actually evil they'll also vote innocent (everyone would have had to vote innocent to counter the Mayor's guilty vote), but if they think he's town they'll vote guilty and my vote won't matter. Everyone else votes guilty. He flips Detective.
At this point there remains the Mayor, two Triad, a Neutral Evil (non-Cult), and myself. I tell the Triad to kill the Mayor (we win once he dies).
Night 5 I use my last vest, since there's little reason for me to save it as the game is almost over. Triad tries to kill me instead of Mayor, but I survive.
Day 6 Saviero (Enforcer) wants me lynched, since I was immune. I claim Survivor and Lord Nihlus (who I PMed earlier) backs me up. It doesn't really matter, though, since Mayor lynches Lord Nihlus on his own. He flips Interrogator.
I tell Triad again to kill the Mayor and take the win.
Night 6 I don't have any more vests. The Triad kills the Mayor this time and the game ends as a Triad victory despite the entire Triad being outed on Day 1. The last Neutral Evil turned out to be a Judge. He never talked (from what I recalled) and never called court.
Note that had the Triad killed anyone else besides the Mayor at that point, they risked losing the game since the Mayor could have voted off the last Triad player had he wanted to, resulting in a potential Town Win (if Judge were killed) or Judge Win (if I were killed), instead of a guaranteed Triad Win.
Note that this isn't meant to be a report, although if you want I can report the two players (the player who cheated and the Mayor).
[B]Crimes Committed:[/B] Hacking, Bank Hacking, possible game throwing/griefing attempt.
[B]Your Account Name:[/B] mathchamp
[B]Summary:[/B] Says he was hacking in dead person chat. Also claimed Agent on Day 2 when there were no jesters or anything like that. Bank file appears hacked (46k points with only one win, 21 games, and one achievement).
Crimes Committed: Hacking, Bank Hacking, possible game throwing/griefing attempt.
Your Account Name: mathchamp Summary: Says he was hacking in dead person chat. Also claimed Agent on Day 2 when there were no jesters or anything like that. Bank file appears hacked (46k points with only one win, 21 games, and one achievement).
I think what happened is that this game violated the assumption that either someone gets lynched, or the day ends with a skip/no-lynch. On Day 2 of this game, both happened.
Settings: Night Start, Night Sequence, Secret Ballot with Trial.
Everything is normal until Day 2.
Since 14 people remain in the game, 8 people are needed to skip. Several people vote for a lynch while 7/8 skip votes are recorded. At this point, the day timer runs out, the ballots are counted, and [COLOR="#0042FF"]Dino Greco[/COLOR] ([COLOR="#FF4488"]Godfather[/COLOR]) goes on trial. [COLOR="#0042FF"]Dino Greco[/COLOR] gives his trial defense, and the voting starts. [COLOR="#168000"]Shikoko[/COLOR] ([COLOR="#00FF44"]Detective[/COLOR]) gets his vote in (Guilty), but then [COLOR="#525494"]Fred[/COLOR] ([COLOR="#BB4455"]Mass Murderer[/COLOR]) quits the game.
Normally, when someone quits the game, the number of votes needed for a majority trial or a skip is updated immediately to reflect the number of remaining players. Since only 13 players remain now, the quota drops to 7. As well, if the quitting player had a lynch vote, it is removed. However, the skip vote isn't removed (since [COLOR="#525494"]Fred[/COLOR] was one of the players who voted to skip). Since there were 7 votes to skip before the trial started, the skip occurs and the game proceeds to night [I]during the trial[/I]. The trial continues through the night but everyone is locked out of voting. The night starts as it would otherwise normally ([COLOR="#66CC00"]Jailor[/COLOR] jails, night meetings/actions).
Night 2.
Since a single vote was placed before the skip, and it was a Guilty, [COLOR="#0042FF"]Dino Greco[/COLOR] is lynched in the middle of the night. Note that the results in the chat list that everyone abstained, though.
The night sequence starts as [COLOR="#0042FF"]Dino Greco[/COLOR]'s role is displayed to the town. The chat opens up to everyone for a few seconds as it normally does right after a lynch, except for the fact that it's during the night sequence. The mafia doesn't kill since the [COLOR="#FF4488"]Godfather[/COLOR] is dead. [COLOR="#168000"]Shikoko[/COLOR] is executed by [COLOR="#E55BB0"]RexCaptian[/COLOR], and [COLOR="#525494"]Fred[/COLOR] suicides.
Since the "day" has ended in a lynch, the game advances to Night 2 (again). This night is extremely short as the end of the other Night 2 causes the game to advance to Day 3.
"Day 3" starts just about precisely when the night meetings for the second Night 2 start. The two people who died during the last night sequence are dead but don't appear in the graveyard.
The game proceeds to the Discussion phase as if Day 3 were starting normally (but with no deaths), except the game thinks it is also night (as players are in their night meetings). It is now both day and night (and both soundtracks are playing on top of one another), and both the Discussion timer and the Night timer run concurrently. During this really glitchy period, the [COLOR="#FF0000"]Mafia[/COLOR] have their night chat, but no roles can perform their night actions. As well, there is a new "night chat" with [I]all the players who don't normally have night chats[/I], (i.e. the [COLOR="#00FF00"]Town[/COLOR] and the [COLOR="#6622CC"]Witch[/COLOR]), with roles in plain sight just as they are normally in night chats. Basically, it is day except that players are in night chats as opposed to the normal day chat, and the game proceeds to the lynching phase. Not enough votes are obtained for a trial. When the timer for the second "Night 2" runs out, the night sequence starts, but nothing happens (as only the [COLOR="#66CC00"]Jailor[/COLOR] got his action in within the few seconds of the second Night 2, and his target [who was re-jailed] was already executed), and the game skips forward to Day 4.
Once Day 4 starts, the game starts to work normally again, except with overlapping music and two players missing from the graveyard.
Suggested fix: Wipe the votes for skipping day upon either the end of collecting ballots for Secret Ballot (when the timer hits 0:00, all the ballots are collected, or enough are collected for a majority trial on a certain player), or when a trial/lynching is initiated in Majority mode.
P.S. You're a failor :blink1:
I think what happened is that this game violated the assumption that either someone gets lynched, or the day ends with a skip/no-lynch. On Day 2 of this game, both happened.
Settings: Night Start, Night Sequence, Secret Ballot with Trial.
Everything is normal until Day 2.
Since 14 people remain in the game, 8 people are needed to skip. Several people vote for a lynch while 7/8 skip votes are recorded. At this point, the day timer runs out, the ballots are counted, and Dino Greco (Godfather) goes on trial. Dino Greco gives his trial defense, and the voting starts. Shikoko (Detective) gets his vote in (Guilty), but then Fred (Mass Murderer) quits the game.
Normally, when someone quits the game, the number of votes needed for a majority trial or a skip is updated immediately to reflect the number of remaining players. Since only 13 players remain now, the quota drops to 7. As well, if the quitting player had a lynch vote, it is removed. However, the skip vote isn't removed (since Fred was one of the players who voted to skip). Since there were 7 votes to skip before the trial started, the skip occurs and the game proceeds to night during the trial. The trial continues through the night but everyone is locked out of voting. The night starts as it would otherwise normally (Jailor jails, night meetings/actions).
Night 2.
Since a single vote was placed before the skip, and it was a Guilty, Dino Greco is lynched in the middle of the night. Note that the results in the chat list that everyone abstained, though.
The night sequence starts as Dino Greco's role is displayed to the town. The chat opens up to everyone for a few seconds as it normally does right after a lynch, except for the fact that it's during the night sequence. The mafia doesn't kill since the Godfather is dead. Shikoko is executed by RexCaptian, and Fred suicides.
Since the "day" has ended in a lynch, the game advances to Night 2 (again). This night is extremely short as the end of the other Night 2 causes the game to advance to Day 3.
"Day 3" starts just about precisely when the night meetings for the second Night 2 start. The two people who died during the last night sequence are dead but don't appear in the graveyard.
The game proceeds to the Discussion phase as if Day 3 were starting normally (but with no deaths), except the game thinks it is also night (as players are in their night meetings). It is now both day and night (and both soundtracks are playing on top of one another), and both the Discussion timer and the Night timer run concurrently. During this really glitchy period, the Mafia have their night chat, but no roles can perform their night actions. As well, there is a new "night chat" with all the players who don't normally have night chats, (i.e. the Town and the Witch), with roles in plain sight just as they are normally in night chats. Basically, it is day except that players are in night chats as opposed to the normal day chat, and the game proceeds to the lynching phase. Not enough votes are obtained for a trial. When the timer for the second "Night 2" runs out, the night sequence starts, but nothing happens (as only the Jailor got his action in within the few seconds of the second Night 2, and his target [who was re-jailed] was already executed), and the game skips forward to Day 4.
Once Day 4 starts, the game starts to work normally again, except with overlapping music and two players missing from the graveyard.
Suggested fix: Wipe the votes for skipping day upon either the end of collecting ballots for Secret Ballot (when the timer hits 0:00, all the ballots are collected, or enough are collected for a majority trial on a certain player), or when a trial/lynching is initiated in Majority mode.
Godfather with crappy settings (can't kill without mafioso) and 2 Framers. I am the Witch. Framers use -target and it causes the Godfather to go kill even though he shouldn't be able to kill. The vigilante and myself are killed by the mafia even though they shouldn't have any kill-capable role.
This bug is still unfixed.
Godfather with crappy settings (can't kill without mafioso) and 2 Framers. I am the Witch. Framers use -target and it causes the Godfather to go kill even though he shouldn't be able to kill. The vigilante and myself are killed by the mafia even though they shouldn't have any kill-capable role.
[B]Your Account Name:[/B] mathchamp
[B]Summary:[/B] He correctly identified all of the mafia and their exact roles on the first night and put it in his last will. This is virtually impossible to do by chance and nobody would dare try.
Your Account Name: mathchamp Summary: He correctly identified all of the mafia and their exact roles on the first night and put it in his last will. This is virtually impossible to do by chance and nobody would dare try.
There's also this thread: [URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/12466-Outkasst-2-S2-1-2153029"]https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/12466-Outkasst-2-S2-1-2153029
[/URL]
Mod kills everyone n1, "Your setup is shit."
[QUOTE=Chane;201458]imho this is a bug and it should be changed to make a mafioso force his vote on the killing and thus effectively kill if no other votes are given by other mafioso's.[/QUOTE]
While I don't know anything about the map code, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be an easy change to make, since the Witch changes a player's night visit target, and the Mafia vote is not a night visit target. To make the Witch also affect the Mafia's vote he'd have to move the determination of the Mafia's target to after the Witch (and bus driver, escort, consort) acts, and make it so that a controlled player is forced to change their vote to the target the Witch gave. Moving the determination of the Mafia target might also break things with the Bus Driver. I think that the mechanic doesn't need to be changed because it's not really worth it. Mafia is not usually going to NK unless in a scenario similar to what I was in (i.e. mafia and witch are already going to win) or in a few other cases (AFK Mafia, making jailor/escort think they jailed/blocked the Godfather, etc.)
I'm pretty sure the mechanics for the Mafiosi (and Godfather) are as follows (this is just a hypothesis from observations, not confirmed):
Mafioso and Godfather by themselves have no night action power (i.e. their night visit does nothing except appear on Detective/Lookout reports, get them killed by a Veteran on alert, etc.). Of course, they won't visit anyone unless witched. However, at the end of the night period (before the night sequence starts), when the mafia have voted on who to kill, a random Mafioso (or the Godfather if there is no Mafioso and he can kill without one) is given the power to kill the person they visit for that night, [I]and[/I] they automatically visit the target who was voted upon. This is the Mafioso the Witch must control to change who the Mafia kills. If the Mafia chooses not to kill anyone, then none of the Mafia are granted the ability to kill for that night. If the Witch controls any Mafioso other than the one sent by the Mafia to do the kill, said Mafioso will visit the target the witch commanded him to, but not kill.
In simpler terms, think of the entire Mafia team as having only one gun (except the Disguiser, who has his own gun which he uses when he goes to guise). When the Mafia vote to kill someone, a random Mafioso is given the gun (or the Godfather takes the gun if there are no mafiosi and he can kill without one). The Mafioso with the gun goes to kill his target while the others just go home and do nothing. This all happens before any other actions occur (Witch, Bus Driver, Roleblockers, etc. except Jailor's jailing, of course). If the Mafioso with the gun is witched, then he will visit as the witch commands and kill the new target. If a Mafioso without the gun is witched, he will still visit the target the Witch commanded him to, but he won't kill them because he doesn't have the gun. If the Mafia choose to kill nobody, they all go home and leave the gun at the meeting spot (perhaps locked up somewhere safe). If the gun is "lost" i.e. the Mafioso sent to kill dies, the Mafia acquires a new gun for next night.
I suggest that if anything is changed, that if the Mafia choose not to kill, still grant a random Mafioso with the power to kill whoever they visit on that night, the same way as if they were killing someone, but said Mafioso won't automatically visit anyone. This won't have any effect except in the case of the Witch. In the analogy, this would be the same as the Mafioso being given the gun but going home and not planning on using it (although in terms of the analogy such a change makes little sense :blink1:).
Originally Posted by Chane
imho this is a bug and it should be changed to make a mafioso force his vote on the killing and thus effectively kill if no other votes are given by other mafioso's.
While I don't know anything about the map code, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be an easy change to make, since the Witch changes a player's night visit target, and the Mafia vote is not a night visit target. To make the Witch also affect the Mafia's vote he'd have to move the determination of the Mafia's target to after the Witch (and bus driver, escort, consort) acts, and make it so that a controlled player is forced to change their vote to the target the Witch gave. Moving the determination of the Mafia target might also break things with the Bus Driver. I think that the mechanic doesn't need to be changed because it's not really worth it. Mafia is not usually going to NK unless in a scenario similar to what I was in (i.e. mafia and witch are already going to win) or in a few other cases (AFK Mafia, making jailor/escort think they jailed/blocked the Godfather, etc.)
I'm pretty sure the mechanics for the Mafiosi (and Godfather) are as follows (this is just a hypothesis from observations, not confirmed):
Mafioso and Godfather by themselves have no night action power (i.e. their night visit does nothing except appear on Detective/Lookout reports, get them killed by a Veteran on alert, etc.). Of course, they won't visit anyone unless witched. However, at the end of the night period (before the night sequence starts), when the mafia have voted on who to kill, a random Mafioso (or the Godfather if there is no Mafioso and he can kill without one) is given the power to kill the person they visit for that night, and they automatically visit the target who was voted upon. This is the Mafioso the Witch must control to change who the Mafia kills. If the Mafia chooses not to kill anyone, then none of the Mafia are granted the ability to kill for that night. If the Witch controls any Mafioso other than the one sent by the Mafia to do the kill, said Mafioso will visit the target the witch commanded him to, but not kill.
In simpler terms, think of the entire Mafia team as having only one gun (except the Disguiser, who has his own gun which he uses when he goes to guise). When the Mafia vote to kill someone, a random Mafioso is given the gun (or the Godfather takes the gun if there are no mafiosi and he can kill without one). The Mafioso with the gun goes to kill his target while the others just go home and do nothing. This all happens before any other actions occur (Witch, Bus Driver, Roleblockers, etc. except Jailor's jailing, of course). If the Mafioso with the gun is witched, then he will visit as the witch commands and kill the new target. If a Mafioso without the gun is witched, he will still visit the target the Witch commanded him to, but he won't kill them because he doesn't have the gun. If the Mafia choose to kill nobody, they all go home and leave the gun at the meeting spot (perhaps locked up somewhere safe). If the gun is "lost" i.e. the Mafioso sent to kill dies, the Mafia acquires a new gun for next night.
I suggest that if anything is changed, that if the Mafia choose not to kill, still grant a random Mafioso with the power to kill whoever they visit on that night, the same way as if they were killing someone, but said Mafioso won't automatically visit anyone. This won't have any effect except in the case of the Witch. In the analogy, this would be the same as the Mafioso being given the gun but going home and not planning on using it (although in terms of the analogy such a change makes little sense ).
Also, a lot of the thread tags are missing when creating a new thread. For the player reports there is only [Abuse], and for the Mafia bug reports they are missing altogether (so you can't make a thread there).
Also, a lot of the thread tags are missing when creating a new thread. For the player reports there is only [Abuse], and for the Mafia bug reports they are missing altogether (so you can't make a thread there).
The doctor left the game the previous day, so he healed nobody.
Also I searched a little and I think it was because the mafia did not try to kill anyone that night. I assumed that the Witch forced people to use their action but I guess this does not apply to a mafioso because their action is not "kill someone every night" but "vote on who the Mafia should kill every night" and a random mafioso is sent out if anyone is voted on - so therefore you'd have to control whichever Mafia was sent to kill in order to have them kill who you want.
Therefore, I assume that when I manipulated the mafioso, it made the mafioso visit himself, but since he was not sent to kill anyone, his visit had no effect (as if I sent, say, a Spy or a Mayor to visit someone).
Personally I think this makes a bit of an interesting mechanic since if it's down to Witch and Mafioso at the start of a night, if the Mafioso attempts to betray the witch, the mafioso dies and the Witch wins, while if the mafioso doesn't attempt to betray the witch, they both win.
The forum issues still stand, though. I'll see what happens if I play with some of the forum settings.
The doctor left the game the previous day, so he healed nobody.
Also I searched a little and I think it was because the mafia did not try to kill anyone that night. I assumed that the Witch forced people to use their action but I guess this does not apply to a mafioso because their action is not "kill someone every night" but "vote on who the Mafia should kill every night" and a random mafioso is sent out if anyone is voted on - so therefore you'd have to control whichever Mafia was sent to kill in order to have them kill who you want.
Therefore, I assume that when I manipulated the mafioso, it made the mafioso visit himself, but since he was not sent to kill anyone, his visit had no effect (as if I sent, say, a Spy or a Mayor to visit someone).
Personally I think this makes a bit of an interesting mechanic since if it's down to Witch and Mafioso at the start of a night, if the Mafioso attempts to betray the witch, the mafioso dies and the Witch wins, while if the mafioso doesn't attempt to betray the witch, they both win.
The forum issues still stand, though. I'll see what happens if I play with some of the forum settings.
On the last night of a game, three people were remaining: the Witch (me), the Mafioso (who started as Consort), and the Doctor (who left the game the previous day after knowing Town lost).
I attempted to make the last mafia kill himself (so I could get the Forever Alone achievement; not to be mean), however he was not dead the following morning. He did not attempt to kill anyone.
I tried to upload the replay but the upload manager didn't work for me today (the busy icon would appear and then disappear but nothing would be uploaded).
[B]As well, I tried to post this in the correct section but it told me that I needed a thread prefix, but the dropdown box for the prefix is missing (and on the player reports forum the only prefix is "[Abuse]"). Therefore I know I am posting in the wrong section but I am posting in the wrong section because the forum will not let me do it in the correct section, and I need to alert someone to this serious issue as well. Can a moderator please move this to the bug forum?[/B]
I tried both Internet Explorer and Firefox.
tl;dr I KNOW THIS IS THE WRONG SECTION BUT THE FORUM IS BROKEN AND WON'T LET ME POST IN THE CORRECT SECTION :mad:
On the last night of a game, three people were remaining: the Witch (me), the Mafioso (who started as Consort), and the Doctor (who left the game the previous day after knowing Town lost).
I attempted to make the last mafia kill himself (so I could get the Forever Alone achievement; not to be mean), however he was not dead the following morning. He did not attempt to kill anyone.
I tried to upload the replay but the upload manager didn't work for me today (the busy icon would appear and then disappear but nothing would be uploaded).
As well, I tried to post this in the correct section but it told me that I needed a thread prefix, but the dropdown box for the prefix is missing (and on the player reports forum the only prefix is "[Abuse]"). Therefore I know I am posting in the wrong section but I am posting in the wrong section because the forum will not let me do it in the correct section, and I need to alert someone to this serious issue as well. Can a moderator please move this to the bug forum?
I tried both Internet Explorer and Firefox.
tl;dr I KNOW THIS IS THE WRONG SECTION BUT THE FORUM IS BROKEN AND WON'T LET ME POST IN THE CORRECT SECTION
[b]Your Account Name:[/b] mathchamp
[b]Summary:[/b] This guy again. I'd love to have my reports expedited. He's Godfather in this game.
Start Screen: Spams "MITT ROMNEY 2012".
Night 1: Nothing suspicious. I am killed by the mafia (as well, cult tried to convert me from what I see in the replay), allowing me to witness the dead chat before watching the replay. Sheriff checks the godfather; comes up NS.
Day 2: Tyler Banks (Godfather) claims sheriff and calls out Tequila (Spy) as a cultist. my name is henry bob (Sheriff) calls him out as mafia. Spy fakeclaims Invest and calls out Tyler Banks as the Disguiser. As people vote him up, he repeats his sheriff claim and calls out Tequila as Godfather. Tyler Banks is put on trial, claims Mason Leader and claims his two teammates are Mason and will vouch (this is a legitimate strategy, but the claim is an impossible one for the save's role list). Neither of them vouch for his claim. Spams "MITT ROMNEY 2012" during the vote. Gets lynched. Outs his teammates Faggot Mode (Disguiser) and Sandslash (Consort) with intent to gamethrow.
Night 2: Faggot Mode disguises as my name is henry bob.
Day 3: Town dismisses the Godfather's outing of his teammates, assuming it was a trick, however by his behaviour it is clear he wanted to ruin the game as opposed to a WIFOM tactic. poppaskull claims he's Skyping with the Bus Driver (probably a lie). Also claims Tequila (Spy) is in skype with him. The Spy is lynched.
Night 3: Spams some more and claims to be telling Bus Driver who the disguiser is after I asked the dead Sheriff who he was.
Day 4: poppaskull continues to claim that his teammates game-threw for the entire game. Jester quits the game, no lynch. During this day poppaskull says he will lag the game, but doesn't actually do so.
Night 4: Nothing to note.
Day 5: Claudio De Niro (Mayor/Cultist) claims Sheriff and claims Sandslash is mafia. He claims Amnesiac and gets lynched.
Night 5: Sandslash fights with poppaskull in the dead chat.
Day 6: Nothing to note among the living.
Nothing notable happens among the living past here. poppaskull continues to fight with the other dead players, also claiming that the Witch and later the Amnesiac (who went Cultist) were in Skype with him, however these claims are likely false.
The Cult wins the game.
Your Account Name: mathchamp Summary: This guy again. I'd love to have my reports expedited. He's Godfather in this game.
Start Screen: Spams "MITT ROMNEY 2012".
Night 1: Nothing suspicious. I am killed by the mafia (as well, cult tried to convert me from what I see in the replay), allowing me to witness the dead chat before watching the replay. Sheriff checks the godfather; comes up NS.
Day 2: Tyler Banks (Godfather) claims sheriff and calls out Tequila (Spy) as a cultist. my name is henry bob (Sheriff) calls him out as mafia. Spy fakeclaims Invest and calls out Tyler Banks as the Disguiser. As people vote him up, he repeats his sheriff claim and calls out Tequila as Godfather. Tyler Banks is put on trial, claims Mason Leader and claims his two teammates are Mason and will vouch (this is a legitimate strategy, but the claim is an impossible one for the save's role list). Neither of them vouch for his claim. Spams "MITT ROMNEY 2012" during the vote. Gets lynched. Outs his teammates Faggot Mode (Disguiser) and Sandslash (Consort) with intent to gamethrow.
Night 2: Faggot Mode disguises as my name is henry bob.
Day 3: Town dismisses the Godfather's outing of his teammates, assuming it was a trick, however by his behaviour it is clear he wanted to ruin the game as opposed to a WIFOM tactic. poppaskull claims he's Skyping with the Bus Driver (probably a lie). Also claims Tequila (Spy) is in skype with him. The Spy is lynched.
Night 3: Spams some more and claims to be telling Bus Driver who the disguiser is after I asked the dead Sheriff who he was.
Day 4: poppaskull continues to claim that his teammates game-threw for the entire game. Jester quits the game, no lynch. During this day poppaskull says he will lag the game, but doesn't actually do so.
Night 4: Nothing to note.
Day 5: Claudio De Niro (Mayor/Cultist) claims Sheriff and claims Sandslash is mafia. He claims Amnesiac and gets lynched.
Night 5: Sandslash fights with poppaskull in the dead chat.
Day 6: Nothing to note among the living.
Nothing notable happens among the living past here. poppaskull continues to fight with the other dead players, also claiming that the Witch and later the Amnesiac (who went Cultist) were in Skype with him, however these claims are likely false.
The Cult wins the game.
Just ran into this guy. Still spamming on the start screen and game-throwing, but this time with a bunch of other people on skype, then acts like a child when I refuse to join him. I've already posted my own reports.
Just ran into this guy. Still spamming on the start screen and game-throwing, but this time with a bunch of other people on skype, then acts like a child when I refuse to join him. I've already posted my own reports.
[b]Account Name:[/b] Clarkness
[b]Account ID:[/b] 1-S2-1-3487263
[b]In-Game Name:[/b] Darkness (the one with colour codes, not the one without)
[b]Crimes Committed:[/b] Game-Throwing
[b]Your Account Name:[/b] mathchamp
[b]Summary:[/b] The red player told people he was arsonist and wanted town to win during day 1. I was jailed on night 2; didn't try to defend myself because I was afk for a few seconds and just wasn't in the flow of the game anymore, and didn't feel like coming up with a lie. On the same night, the player being reported here, as Godfather, committed suicide for no apparent reason. Our last mafioso, Fetus of Satan, was then lynched, followed by me asking why GF committed suicide, followed by him (Fetus of Satan, who I reported in another thread) gloating on how he was cheating and game throwing, they were on skype with two other people, trying to make town win, and how he will never get banned because he's done it like 200 times and never got banned.
Account Name: Clarkness Account ID: 1-S2-1-3487263 In-Game Name: Darkness (the one with colour codes, not the one without)
Crimes Committed: Game-Throwing
Your Account Name: mathchamp Summary: The red player told people he was arsonist and wanted town to win during day 1. I was jailed on night 2; didn't try to defend myself because I was afk for a few seconds and just wasn't in the flow of the game anymore, and didn't feel like coming up with a lie. On the same night, the player being reported here, as Godfather, committed suicide for no apparent reason. Our last mafioso, Fetus of Satan, was then lynched, followed by me asking why GF committed suicide, followed by him (Fetus of Satan, who I reported in another thread) gloating on how he was cheating and game throwing, they were on skype with two other people, trying to make town win, and how he will never get banned because he's done it like 200 times and never got banned.
[b]Account Name:[/b] poppaskull
[b]Account ID:[/b] 1-S2-1-435837
[b]In-Game Name:[/b] Fetus of Satan
[b]Crimes Committed:[/b] Griefing
[b]Your Account Name:[/b] mathchamp
[b]Summary:[/b] The red player told people he was arsonist and wanted town to win during day 1. I was jailed on night 2; didn't try to defend myself because I was afk for a few seconds and just wasn't in the flow of the game anymore. As well, the godfather committed suicide. Fetus of Satan was then lynched, followed by me asking why GF committed suicide, followed by him gloating on how he was cheating and game throwing, trying to make town win, and how he will never get banned because he's done it like 200 times and never got banned.
Account Name: poppaskull Account ID: 1-S2-1-435837 In-Game Name: Fetus of Satan
Crimes Committed: Griefing
Your Account Name: mathchamp Summary: The red player told people he was arsonist and wanted town to win during day 1. I was jailed on night 2; didn't try to defend myself because I was afk for a few seconds and just wasn't in the flow of the game anymore. As well, the godfather committed suicide. Fetus of Satan was then lynched, followed by me asking why GF committed suicide, followed by him gloating on how he was cheating and game throwing, trying to make town win, and how he will never get banned because he's done it like 200 times and never got banned.
Originally Posted by Sen
No. Unless you play against your wincon while being part of a team, there's no gamethrowing.
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