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  1. Forum:News

    Thread:FMXII Sign-ups Number Two

    Thread Author:Forum Mafia GM

    Post Author:Clawtrocity

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    ►►Re: FMXII Sign-ups Number Two◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambient View Post
    I like how out of that entire cluster fuck those were the two sentences that resonated with him.
    The rest of it was a joke. Jack made himself out to look stupid. I love how blind everyone is to it. Those two were the only two that I need to prove that he was lying and all this drama has in fact been caused by him because he felt somehow threatened that False and Muso made another site.
  2. Forum:News

    Thread:FMXII Sign-ups Number Two

    Thread Author:Forum Mafia GM

    Post Author:Clawtrocity

    Replies
    111
    Views
    17,476

    ►►Re: FMXII Sign-ups Number Two◄◄

    [5:48:15 PM] Nick: The situation changed when I learned about playmaf, if Cap had told me about it before it had happened
    [5:48:19 PM] Nick: I would not have let you play at all.
    [5:48:15 PM] Nick: The situation changed when I learned about playmaf, if Cap had told me about it before it had happened
    [5:48:19 PM] Nick: I would not have let you play at all.
    [5:48:15 PM] Nick: The situation changed when I learned about playmaf, if Cap had told me about it before it had happened
    [5:48:19 PM] Nick: I would not have let you play at all.
    [5:48:15 PM] Nick: The situation changed when I learned about playmaf, if Cap had told me about it before it had happened
    [5:48:19 PM] Nick: I would not have let you play at all.
    [5:48:15 PM] Nick: The situation changed when I learned about playmaf, if Cap had told me about it before it had happened
    [5:48:19 PM] Nick: I would not have let you play at all.
    [5:48:15 PM] Nick: The situation changed when I learned about playmaf, if Cap had told me about it before it had happened
    [5:48:19 PM] Nick: I would not have let you play at all.
    [5:48:15 PM] Nick: The situation changed when I learned about playmaf, if Cap had told me about it before it had happened
    [5:48:19 PM] Nick: I would not have let you play at all.

    You learned about this half way through the day and lied to everyone. Everything you've said is a lie. Everything that went down was because you learned about playmaf and wanted to punish us for no reason. You sir, are not a scholar or a gentleman. Muso had no wrong doing, you're just upset.

    This is wrong and stupid. I hope you delete this so everyone sees that you're trying to hide. I'm screenshotting it for proof. That's absolutely ridiculous that you think you can get away with this. We've done nothing wrong and your entire motivation was based on an imaginary scenario you plotted in your head. That entire conversation made you look like a pidgeon playing chess. He was bringing up points that you didn't answer. I had no issue an hour ago when I figured you thought Muso was involved somehow, but you don't. You're banning him because you fucked up. I thought I was self-righteous, but you're borderline insane if you think that mentality is anything other than

    Complete BULLSHIT
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    ►►Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJackofSpades View Post
    Let me make myself clear: You are no better than any other gamethrower in sc2 mafia. Twist the situation however way you like, but so long as I remain on these forums I will ensure you never participate in another FM again.

    Saying I was pushing to ban everyone I didn't like is pretty laughable, by the way, because until now the three of you were among the short list of people I admired to some degree. You made me your enemy, not the other way around. I expected this kind of shit from False because he's a snake who will take any opportunity to stab his friends in the back. But I didn't expect it from you.
    I didn't stab anyone in the back. I didn't do anything wrong. I played the game and you pushed your politics into the mess. The forums are so far gone that no one is even reading this or caring about it. It's just you and me talking. The players that matter either don't care enough to read this, don't care for either side, or are gone. This isn't between you stopping me from playing FM or you standing in my way. This is you and me arguing over bullshit. You poked me, I poked you back. We're both narcissistic douchebags and this literally will go no where. Have fun re-hosting FM12. I hope you'll eventually drop this and while you don't really have to respect me, at least treat me like a normal person.
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    ►►Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by creedkingsx View Post
    oo look, another wall of text.
    How can you play Forum mafia effectively if you can't even be bothered to read anything more than a sentence or two?
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    ►►Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm◄◄

    I'm angry Jack. I'm angry that you can sit there and continually disrespect the people of Forum Mafia. You're ignoring everything I'm saying because I could go through and quote all of your posts again and point out the lies you're saying. I've been nothing calm toward you and you continue to be uncivil and cruel towards me. I'm not the one making threats or using scare tactics, that would be you. You ended the game because you wanted me gone. You wanted everyone's approval so you caused chaos on the forums in an attempt to unjustly get me removed from the forums. We were playing a game, there was no hostility, and there was no chance for communication. Game masters are not to dictate what a player needs. That power belongs to the people who play your game. You are merely a moderator of a debate. You are providing an outlet for others to play and the winner of the debate should be decided by the people. I love this forum and I love playing FM. I've played it every single time and I've always had a good time. When you love something you fight for it. You don't sit around while someone tries to make a mockery of it. You say that I'm the one that's out of the picture, but you're the one who quit playing FMs because you hated the way they were being run. Not me. I've played in all of them even if I didn't think they would turn out to be that good.

    You punished the players of FM by ending the game prematurely for no reason. You're trying so hard to get rid of me, when I'm tried my best to apologize for everything that's happened. I've been nothing but kind. You're not putting the game first, you're ruining this community even more with politics and we don't need it. You push that blame on False and Muso for no reason and yet the real reason it all happened was because you were kind of a control freak. The second something went wrong you went apeshit and banned everyone you didn't like. You have no proof that what I did was malicious, but I have proof that what you did was. I don't care if Cap didn't tell you, that's communication breakdown between you and him. He knew in the middle of the day chat of what I was doing and refused to take the opportunity to ban me then. I was breaking the rules set prior to the game. You however, banned me and Muso from the game for something that shouldn't we shouldn't have been banned for.

    If I seem too passionate it's because I am. I've had nothing, but respect for Rev the moment I joined this forum and I've loved playing Forum Mafia through thick and thin. If I come on strong it's because I feel strongly. I know this sounds cliche, but it's true. This is honestly how I feel about this whole situation. I'm telling you that my strategy was not intended to end the game. I've already told you that there were easier ways to do that.

    This place has been my home for over a year and everyone here has been like family. You can continue to be angry about this, but all you're doing is splitting the forum. Prior to this everyone was going to be in one group. Now it's going to be on one side or the other because you just can't let it go.
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    ►►Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm◄◄

    A) I voiced my opinion quite loudly, thank you very much. But when the community turned against me on the matter, I resigned. Learn to be... I don't know, around at all?
    B) So you did dislike Lysergic and the others not being modkilled. So it wasn't a strategy then? Wait, but I thought you said that was the entire motivation for being upset about being modkilled right? That it was a strategy? Does that mean that hating Akira is a strategy too? Wait... that doesn't make sense... Or does it?
    You must not be reading correctly. I said I didn't like the way modkills were being handled. Who do you think was modkilled in the game? It would be False and I. Neither of us deserved to be modkilled therefore I didn't like the way modkills were being handled. So you're propagandizing up the wrong tree.




    I don't know what this proves, it's a vague comment about something I had no knowledge of.
    In fact, this is pretty much of the extent of the conversation we had over you, and you'll note that Cap does not seem wise to you either.
    Spoiler : Spoiler: :
    meanwhile claw wants me to kill lysergic
    [4/24/2012 6:17:39 PM] Nick: Why?
    [4/24/2012 6:17:47 PM] Cap: for meta
    [4/24/2012 6:18:00 PM] Cap: except it's not as blatant as one example in this thread
    [4/24/2012 6:18:07 PM] Cap: the one i saw that i didn't like was
    [4/24/2012 6:18:15 PM | Edited 6:18:24 PM] Cap: "blazer is acting like fm suicidaln00b"
    [4/24/2012 6:18:30 PM] Nick: meh
    [4/24/2012 6:18:57 PM] Cap: im pretty sure claw
    [4/24/2012 6:19:02 PM] Cap: escalated the situation though
    [4/24/2012 6:20:46 PM] Cap: [6:19:25 PM] TheWaaagh: becuase i was waiting for claw to be like 'you culted sumi bitch'
    [6:20:21 PM] Cap: lol
    [4/24/2012 6:20:50 PM] Cap: he's not very wise for his beard
    [4/24/2012 6:20:56 PM] Cap: he still thinks he's detective
    [4/24/2012 6:21:05 PM] Cap: even with my many
    [4/24/2012 6:21:06 PM] Cap: lol
    [4/24/2012 6:21:16 PM] Cap: meanwhile im checking posts for meta
    [4/24/2012 6:23:13 PM] Cap: [Tuesday, April 24, 2012 6:15 PM] Claw:

    <<< Knowledge bomb dropped on gmae
    game*
    Read that shit and praise me
    [4/24/2012 6:23:49 PM] Cap: they're so immature lol
    [4/24/2012 6:38:32 PM] Cap: I will edit the metagame rule slightly to clarify that these sort of posts are inappropriate. However, I'm not sure referring to past games was the best way to deal with Lysergic bending the rules.
    [4/24/2012 6:38:34 PM] Cap: help edit it
    [4/24/2012 6:41:57 PM] Cap: my fucking god
    [4/24/2012 6:42:00 PM] Cap: what is wrong with them
    [4/24/2012 6:42:34 PM] Cap: Or I pulled a gambit, waited for some douchebag to claim that I always use a gambit and to ignore me and am waiting for a modkill before I leave the game and move on with my life. You seem new to FM on this board, but if you didn't know we had someone removed from the game for jokingly saying he was random roles in skype. That was uncalled for and we thought "Wow they must be strict with this metagame rule" Turns out they just hate FalseTruth because they aren't doing shit to stop the metagaming and I just proved it. Lysergic admitted he was using metagaming tactics to try and disprove what I said and if he isn't mod killed and replaced then I don't really feel the need to continue playing.
    [4/24/2012 6:42:38 PM] Cap: they really
    [4/24/2012 6:42:40 PM] Cap: can't
    [4/24/2012 6:42:41 PM] Cap: stop fucking
    [4/24/2012 6:42:42 PM] Cap: shtting
    [4/24/2012 6:42:43 PM] Cap: ion
    [4/24/2012 6:42:44 PM] Cap: my fucking
    [4/24/2012 6:42:45 PM] Cap: setup
    [4/24/2012 6:42:45 PM] Cap: god
    [4/24/2012 6:42:46 PM] Cap: fucking
    [4/24/2012 6:42:47 PM] Cap: damnit
    [4/24/2012 6:46:29 PM] Cap: are you there
    I made no effort to discredit anything you said. You just stated that the comment Cap left me was vague, but it points out exactly what he knew. He knew the "gambit" had to do with in game information and he knew I was breaking the meta rule. If he had been diligent enough he could have modkilled me right there and I'd have absolutely nothing to defend against it. I was breaking the meta game rule hard, but instead you decided to modkill me because of WIFOM in a private jail cell. What did you think was going to happen in that night chat? I was just gonna chat the jailor up? I have nothing to do with 24 hours and I'm not about to just sit there and congradulate the guy. I'm going to confuse him, force him to role claim, and hope my Mafia can stand up to the test. If that doesn't work out then we would lose. It doesn't matter because it's just a game. It's one of 12 FMs that we've played so far and we would just start up another game. The Jailor could have been someone who wasn't very trustworthy to begin with and everything COULD have worked in my favor.

    Actually you did.

    "who I was" has two contexts, identity and role. But since this was non-anon and they already knew who you were as Claw, it could only mean one thing.
    Saying "I thought" and "I know" are two completely different things. I merely felt as if with the random pressure that you had told them. I never accused you of telling anyone. It's the same as me saying "It feels like someone is watching me" I don't actually think someone is watching me, it just feels that way. How am I the one twisting words again?


    It has never been done before because it would destroy any mafia team that it was committed upon. It was two days into the game and days are 48 hours. Kicking you out when you were already dead actually does nothing but stops you from ruining your own team. So as far as I'm concerned talking to you wasn't an issue. I think it's pretty clear by now I would not have accepted it as "WIFOM" and would have modkilled you regardless.
    You can't prove that. I could play SC2Mafia right now and try it out and I think that at the very least 50% of the time the town would get confused, lynch other people, or clean the people in the last will. If you ban someone from saying the actual mafia names you ban them lynching their own Mafia as well. What happened to Yayap when he played Shawna? Where was the modkill and outrage on that? He pushed a lynch on his own guy for personal gain(to gain the town's trust). There was no outrage because it worked. He tricked the town for a few days before the strategy collapsed on him.

    Stop making this out to be a personal vendetta from me to you. This was merely a strategy that you guys didn't like so you killed me for it. WIFOM has never been penalized before and I gave a perfect example of it working in Forum Mafia in the past. This wasn't me telling everyone that Waaaagh was Cult Leader, Deathfire was witch, or Muso was doctor. I would have never known those roles so obviously if they saw me dead as mafia and knew all these random roles they would think I was cheating. I gave away my own mafia members so they would have had to think twice. At the end of an SC2 Match when someone says "Awww fuck it Black is my mafia teammate" No one believes him, not even for a second. Black might or might not be mafia, but that's the risk that the town has to make. It's risky, but it's a strategy. I never game threw and you had no right to modkill me.


    Yours was pretty malicious as you might recall. It even included a bit about you thinking my game was a waste of time. Furthermore, it wasn't left in a last will. It was stated at your execution, so it'd be more apt to say that you outed your mafia during the Last Words segment of the execution sequence.
    I stated the reason for this in my SC2 ending example. The more blatant it is the more people think about it. This isn't coming from my mouth either it'd be coming from a random person who claimed jailor. "Aw fuck it we already lost Black is Mafia" The town has no idea if they should believe the jailor or not. It could be Ganon playing as jailor completely lying. Never did I say it with malicious intent to ruin the game.

    If it didn't work, it didn't really matter? It would have caused your instantaneous loss if it didn't work. Are you sure you cared about the game? Who makes a strategy like that when your teammates were completely safe and only you were under the barrel? Not anyone thinking about his team, that's for sure.
    You don't have the right to say what I was thinking about. Everyone plays for themselves, for all I know some of my team could have been culted already and the rest were close to follow. You gave me an action to remove people from my chat. Don't tell me that I have to play for this team that I'm not even sure is going to be my team for much longer. I thought if anything this strategy would keep them alive for longer. They'd be able to kill the jailor. If they all acted oblivious the jailor claim would make no sense and he would now be out in the open. The sheriff was already dead so the only way to proof them to be evil would be to lynch them and find out. It would have caused chaos. In reality this game isn't only about winning either. It's about having fun.

    Everyone told me that when I was Fyodor I wouldn't be allowed to purposefully try and let no one win because it would be against the rules. I say that's bullshit because any rule that prevents me from ending the game in whatever way I want is silly and uncalled for. There are no trophies and only photoshopped awards travel with us from game to game. It'd be the amazing strategy of tricking a jailor, claiming invest, then dying in a heap of bodies where no one wins that would be the memorable part of the game. Everyone would remember the game where no one won. This would have been the game where the mafia were sitting right in front of the town's eyes and they weren't smart enough to lynch them. Instead it's the one where the two hosts decided to modkill two players for stupid reasons then made them seem like the bad guys because of out of game stuff that bothered them. You keep refering to our site being the catalyst to this issue and it was far from it.

    I never said False recruited you, first of all. My meaning was that you pretty much had nothing to do with each other when I was around, a month and a half or so previous. I never thought to myself "Wow, Claw and Muso are really close.", because you only were around to make idiotic comments about serious shit like Kevinpowers.
    Me and Muso never played together, but I've respected him and liked him since FM4. The only reason we become "really close" was because we played the shit out of Alien swarm for a few nights on skype and everyone had a good time. He's also going to be getting D3 with a few of us. This all of course happened weeks before the site was released. You say my comments are idiotic here, but you say your words spoke to me in private...I still don't see where I'm the one twisting words.


    If it didn't have anything to do with Cap and I, and nothing to do with Muso and False, then it must have been your own fault, right?
    The charade I'm referring to was the in game gambit. If that's not what he was talking about I apologize. The second sentence is what I meant about all this. You and Cap were to blame. False and Muso said nothing to me. I didn't even know False knew my role until about the middle of day two I think. If you thought False might tell me to do something why would you let him know all the roles to begin with. Akira went as far as to say he knew False was going to end the game by ruining it. He had all the roles in the game almost and didn't say a word.

    After I was modkilled he let me know a few roles for some laughs, and I didn't reveal those in my signature. I felt that if I wasn't going to be granted a last will, or the jailor chat I could still try the strategy. I told them on skype that I was putting my jailor message in the sig and when Waaaagh asked "Wait what are you going to be in your sig" False linked it in chat and apparently philie(who was supposedly asleep) also saw it. This was mid way through the night and Waaaagh had already told me that he hated Sumi for thinking I was the witch or something and that it was all happening in night chat. You can check the time stamps on all that unless you deleted the evidence already. Waaaagh had no idea until everyone else did and when he did know he had no idea that they were real. I had said in chat that I'm gonna give the jailor 3 names as a final strategy.


    I had absolutely no knowledge of any strategy you were employing in any facet and I am certain judging by Cap's reactions to me in skype between us that he had no idea either. We did not change anything that wasn't specifically stated in day(i.e. Phantom immune to culting). The only thing you have to argue is whether or not you should have been jailed, and it was simply an issue of never re-editing the card after I changed the rolecard formatting. I am sorry if you thought we were out to get you, but we weren't.
    You changed the jailor actions which directly affected me. You won't admit it obviously because once you saw the jailor had been jestered you knew you'd be able to kill me off without having to resort to a modkill. Sadly in the end you still did have to use a modkill because you didn't like my strategy. If you had let it run it's course then you could have watched me lose and be ridiculed by everyone for such a stupid strategy if that's what you thought it was, but instead you ended the game. That caused so much unnecessary drama when it could have been me, ganon, auckmid, and magna laughing at how stupid I was. Sometimes people do stupid things, but that doesn't give people in authority the right to arrest them. If that were the case we wouldn't have a show like Jackass. I dove into a pit of snakes expecting to walk out unscathed and instead you decided to shoot me rather than letting me get bit by all the snakes. That's your fault and you caused this drama. Not me.
    Furthermore, saying that we're both to blame due to a communication breakdown is idiotic.
    Take this scenario for example:
    A man approaches a young lady, asking for sexual favors.
    The lady, not hearing him clearly, asks for clarification.
    The man, hearing an affirmative, rapes her.
    When asked why the man didn't stop when she was crying for him to do so, he responds with "I thought we were roleplaying."
    Communication breakdown is where two groups of people or individuals are trying to communicate and one or both parties misunderstand the message being relayed to the other. Your example fits this description exactly. Rape is usually a communication breakdown because it's the male or female's understanding that the person they are about to rape is "asking for it" either with their attitude, personality, or attire. This is exactly what happened here. You didn't want to talk to me for 5 minutes so you modkilled me and sent me on my way. That's like if a kid was writing on the wall in the house and some father comes up and punches him in the face. Why would you just punch me in the face instead of, I don't know, talking to me for 3 fucking seconds or deleting the message and saying "Hey dude, that's not cool." I'd be much more inclined to believe you weren't out for drama if you had done something like that. We would have been able to talk about it and maybe find a middle ground. Maybe I'd give up 2 fake names and 1 real name instead to confuse them. The strategy was there and if you had talked to me because throwing a tantrum it would have ended a lot better.

    I really hope people are reading these posts between us because this situation shouldn't be another scar on the face of SC2Mafia. I'm trying to remain calm and just talking this out so for the few people that sort of egging this on(*cough* Nick eating popcorn *cough*) maybe don't chime in for now to allow us to figure this out. I'm trying to let Jack and Cap see this from my side so they fully understand where I'm coming from and for the rest of the forum to know that I'm not as big of a jackass as I seem. It's stupid that Muso has to go around to everyone saying sorry on my behalf because everyone saw a situation and just assumed I was the devil. I'm apologizing right here, and right now. If you don't want to believe me then that's your prerogative, but I'm be honest and I know Jack is being honest so we're just trying to put the nail in this coffin.
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    ►►Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm◄◄

    Anyway, I added my part of the story. Nothing else to say other than I'm sorry for everything that happened because of me as I've said before. It shouldn't have happened, but that doesn't mean that I'm not sorry for it. Hopefully you all have fun in your next FM or when this one is restarted. No hard feelings toward Cap or Jack. I've said it before and I'll say it for the rest of my life. 99% of problems in the world are because of communication breakdown. We didn't communicate clearly and that fault rests on both of our shoulders.

    "Bright lights, they tend to burn out fast, so I shine bright, but I'm scared that it won't last. Cause I ain't gonna be around forever, so fuck it all."
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    ►►Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Dust View Post
    Dude, take a chill pill. You should have PM'd them and told them exactly what you were going to do and why you were going to do it and what you expected the results to be. It would have cleared up this entire clusterfuck.

    You just assume that people know what you're thinking. That's stupid and self-centered.
    I don't assume. I was told that they understood what I was doing and continued to post in the day chat. I'm completely calm, so trying to say things like "take a chill pill" make you seem like you're not even reading the thread or that you're not understanding the concepts being presented in the thread.

    For the jail chat thing I don't need to let them know my every action. I talked quite a bit with Cap and asked questions all day, but I'm never going to tell them all my actions. That'd be silly and unnecessary. I'm known to always be a huge user of WIFOM and it's my favorite part of Forum Mafia all the time.
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    ►►Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by creedkingsx View Post
    I haven't just taken Psych classes. That implies like I took a class in high school a long time ago, therefore, I know what I am talking about. I have bee studying everything I possibly can in relation to Psychology for the past 4 years. I have been people's unofficial therapist ever since I have had the ability to do so. People trust me to help them through situations that they don't know how will work out. People and their lives have been my passion since I can remember, simply because it is fascinating watching events unfold and predicting the next step.

    What in the world makes you think, that if they hadn't modkilled you, that the game would have turned out differently from how I said?

    They are the hosts, do you expect them not to make the rules? They tried something new as to not have the anon accounts. To make up for that, they implemented the no metagaming rule to which the anon accounts adjusts for by itself. No metagame is fair play. If you have a teacher that makes every third answer on a test "c," is it fair to just study 2/3 of the material and never read every third question? No, because other people who aren't aware of the information will be at a disadvantage.

    The difference between your example and what Cap and Jack did is you know about the rule before you went into it. If that Governor went into the elections saying hot dogs are illegal, that he would get elected? You had the choice to sign up.

    As for the modkill, assuming that was what you were specifically referring to with your "governor" example, they are the hosts. I, again, refer to what the situation looked like. Given your outrage towards them, your little stunt that was just a "game tactic," and the information that you revealed, which you could have done a large number of other things than reveal your whole mafia team, only Lys and I were putting pressure on you; it easily looked like you were gamethrowing.
    Missed the analogy. The hot dogs represented WIFOM. I was kicked because Cap and Jack didn't like the taste of my hotdog. Take that however you wish.
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    ►►Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Dust View Post
    Claw, making yourself out to be a douchebag doesn't win people to your point of view. Apologize and explain your reasoning.
    I already did both those things.

    Analyzing people and the events surrounding them is what I do. Psychology is my game, I have gone through many classes for it, and it is my major. While, I can't prove that what was going to happen is what I said would happen, I know that it is what would have happened, and you were foolish, assuming it wasn't your intent to game-throw, to have thought any other events other than either what I said, or what happened would have occurred as a result of it, given the previous events of Day 1 in the game.
    You're kidding me right? Saying you take psych classes and that's how you know things will happen makes you look pretentious and idiotic. You have no clue how it would have turned on and they had no right to kick based on their own opinion of whether they thought they were. This isn't a case of "Their game their rules". FM has been a tradition in Mafia for almost a year. Rev gave people the right to how their own game because they were expected to allow fair play and pushing your own opinions on the players like that is completely wrong. That's the equivalent of me taking over as the governor and enforcing a law on my state that said if you ate hot dogs you'd go to jail. It'd break the federal law which is exactly what Cap and Jack did. Everyone eats hot dogs every day, but the second I put peanut butter on my hot dogs the two of them say "That's literally going to taste disgusting so we're going to kill you now". They didn't even taste the hot dog and now everyone will be scared to eat hot dogs.
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    ►►Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm◄◄

    It's not gamethrowing. You have no proof that it would have ruined the game. I have no proof that it wouldn't have ruined the game, but I can say for 100% certainty that I did not intend for any game ruining to occur and you're foolish for believing that it's anything other that.
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    ►►Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysergic View Post
    You already admitted to revealing your Mafia teammates to the Jailor. You already admitted to game throwing.

    Jack said that you additionally stated in Skype that you intended to game throw, which just makes it all the worse.

    The debate here isn't whether or not you game threw. If you revealed your Mafia to the Jailor, then you did. Period.
    I didn't gamethrow. Revealing names of the mafia isn't gamethrowing. It's the same as leaving the names in a last will(which I wasn't going to do because on top of the wifom for the jailor. the Jailor would have to claim and not that many people would think he's telling the truth. He could be a mafia member himself outting 3 random people to slow down the town. It'd cause so much chaos.

    I never admitted to game throwing. I never said on skype that I intended to game throw.

    I read the gist of it all. It is regardless of the situation. It is better if I haven't read it, because I can give a better opinion on what would have happened had you not been modkilled and none of this happened.
    If you read the thread you'd understand that the charade wasn't about Cap and Jack and it was about actual game actions. I merely used that as an exit strategy so I didn't have to claim Investigator because I knew Waaaagh was a cult leader that's why I was trying to get him to claim he visited someone.
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    ►►Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by creedkingsx View Post
    You were raging like a monkey who had his banana stolen from him.
    After your little charade of trying to "prove a point" to the hosts, trying to wifom your mafia members was probably the stupidest thing you could have done. You were the one person who reacted most upset to the game itself, so it would make sense that you would be the one person to throw the game.
    Clearly, you didn't read the thread. No surprise there. I'll let you read the thread again to reformulate your opinion.
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    ►►Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysergic View Post
    That's what Jack's summary of your offenses said, and I'm more prone to believe him than you, given that you just game threw and are now attempting to say that you didn't. :/
    "Jack said you gamethrew. So because you gamethrew I won't believe you when you say you didn't gamethrow"

    Good logic there. I never told anyone that I game throw. I told Waaaagh that I was dead and after I was modkilled I said I changed my sig with the same message I left in the jail chat.
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    ►►Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysergic View Post
    You were jailed, as GF. You revealed the names of the Mafia. You stated via Skype that you intended to game throw.

    That was WIFOM? To me, that sounds like... game throwing. In SC2Mafia, that would've been an Approved report.

    As for your "more believable, less believable" logic, you sound like any number of banlisted trolls trying to appeal their punishments.

    I never said that I intended to gamethrow. Find me that quote because I'm positive I never said that.
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    ►►Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysergic View Post
    Claw uses troll logic.

    "I gamethrew because it was WIFOM. Therefore, not punishable. I had to make it convincing so that it would be less convincing. True story."

    xD
    I was using WIFOM, not game throwing. Therefore, it should not be punishable. If I sounded upset/angry then it would be more believable which would indeed make it less believable.
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    ►►Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm◄◄

    Might as well just throw in the towel bro, there is barely any support against the current regime in the public or private limelight.
    [4/15/2012 12:48:35 PM] Claw: You're crazy
    [4/15/2012 12:48:47 PM] Claw: I'm not gonna just sit around and let bullshit happen
    [4/15/2012 12:49:56 PM] JackofSpades: Your words spoke to me, honestly, but your reputation is the only thing that will suffer.
    [4/15/2012 12:50:09 PM] Claw: I don't have a reputation
    [4/15/2012 12:50:21 PM] JackofSpades: No reputation is better than my reputation.
    [4/15/2012 12:50:56 PM] JackofSpades: All I can do it continously point out the multitude of inconsistencies and lies offered by a select people constantly, and appeal to DR in private.
    [4/15/2012 12:52:23 PM] JackofSpades: There are people who disagree with the way things are going but none of them are willing to do anything about it. Just letting you know what you're getting into.
    [4/15/2012 12:52:36 PM] Claw: I know
    [4/15/2012 12:52:43 PM] Claw: I'm not really getting into anything
    [4/15/2012 12:52:57 PM] Claw: I'm just stating my opinion on the matter which I've done before
    [4/15/2012 12:53:06 PM] Claw: It'll get ignored again, but at least I tried.
    [4/15/2012 12:54:03 PM] JackofSpades: It's a shame, your very eloquent and thought out post got responded with a logical loop of "how do we get respect from people who dont give us respect"
    [4/15/2012 12:54:30 PM] JackofSpades: The simple answer is "you earn it", like Elixir and to a lesser degree, False has.

    In Jack's eyes False had respect. Jack was one of the people who didn't like Akira either so his comments about this coup that False and Muso supposedly had been planning were stupid. He disliked the way the forum was going as well and while he didn't voice his opinion about it he definitely felt the same. False and Muso were classy enough to make a new forum instead of dealing with this bullshit. However, it seems very similar to the situation between me and the FM game master. They made comments, realized nothing was going to happen, and dropped the subject. I did roughly the same thing in the day chat, however in both situations people try and say that we were doing things that were had no basis. They accused us of causing drama and trying to do everything with malicious intent. None of that was true. They disliked the way the Akira situation was being handled and I disliked the way that the modkills weren't being handled. I was wrongfully kicked out of the game as was False and I defended the integrity of the game by standing up for it. I basically said fuck you Cap and Jack for not letting me use my last night to WIFOM protect my allies.

    No, you were committed to making an example out of the rules I put in place intending to better the game and tear it away from the skype bullshit. This is readily apparent in day 2, where you derailed the thread to push for your enemies modkilling when they tredged the line of the rules we had set up.
    You and Cap knew exactly why I did what I did and I used the metagame rules as an exit strategy after Lysergic was stupid enough to break the rules. Cap's message to me proves this.

    [4/25/2012 4:40:54 PM] Capitalier: I wonder if you can convince people that it had nothing to do with the game.
    [4/25/2012 4:40:54 PM] Capitalier: ;)
    [4/25/2012 4:40:57 PM] Capitalier: Didn't work on me.

    Yeah, we would have totally revealed your role and destroy our own game. Rationality prevails. The jailing issue was never updated in the role card and I'm sorry for that, but not being able to jail on a lynch day has not been meta since like FM2. It's so UP. So no, we did not single you out. We had already decided that jailor execute would still be forced despite a day lynch occurring under this circumstance, long before the jailor pm was sent to us.
    I didn't say you actually did that, I said I felt like you did with the random pressure from multiple people. One of the people being Cap's swedish love lady.

    What you did was not an acceptable strategy in even the slightest sense. We modkilled you for it, and it was pretty much a non-issue because you were dead already. You chose to press the issue despite us making it clear it wouldn't be tolerated. That is on you, not us.
    Exactly that. I was dead already. You can't enforce WIFOM on your own dime. If this is a rule in SC2Mafia then it needs to be looked at carefully. I've played SC2Mafia before I outed mafia teammates who have gone on to win the game. Never before has someone done this in FM so I figured with death looming I had no choice other than to try it out. Kicking me without talking to me about it was wrong and stupid of both of you.

    Yet you made no attempt to communicate with us about the issue in day chat nor being removed for using your "strategy". If you recall, Crimson broached you about being removed before he gamethrew. You didn't even offer us that courtesy.
    [4/25/2012 10:00:52 PM] Capitalier: He wasn't reading the thread, lol.
    [4/25/2012 10:01:03 PM] Claw: I know
    [4/25/2012 10:01:14 PM] Claw: It doesn't mean it's any less funny that you killed me
    [4/25/2012 10:01:21 PM] Claw: It's called WIFOM
    [4/25/2012 10:01:34 PM] Claw: And killing me proves that you have no integrity of the game.
    [4/25/2012 10:01:53 PM] Claw: People do that all the time in SC2Mafia and nothing happens because it isn't against the rules.
    [4/25/2012 10:02:02 PM] Claw: I'm just a "trouble maker"

    I let you know that I was upset about it. I assumed that it was Cap doing everything because he was the only one talking to me.

    No. This could have been prevented if you had decided to accept a completely valid modkilling for an offense that is punishable by kick-vote list in-game.
    Even if it is punishable in SC2mafia (Which is shouldn't be unless the person is obviously being malicious or not in a situation like mine I.E. giving a list of the mafia teammates in a last will should not be bannable or even punishiable) the rules of SC2Mafia have never been applied to Forum Mafia so strictly. I did the only thing I could do to increase my chance at making a power play before I died.

    You intentionally ended my game because you weren't enjoying it. See this statement here:
    I was enjoying it. I had plans for many things that were ruined by the jailor. I had to seem upset in my reveal of them to make them think it was real. The more real it seemed the less real it became. They'd be able to fake town roles and survive for a long time. If it didn't work, it didn't really matter. It wasn't your call to say that it wouldn't work. We'll never know now if it did or didn't work because of you kicking me. At least if it didn't work I would have lost, the game would have continued, and you'd be able to tell me how stupid I was for thinking such a crazy strategy would work. Now you're on the defensive after wrongfully kicking from the game.


    Man talk about twisting words. How about you re-read what I said before making it out to be something that it isn't.
    The reason, however, for me writing all of this, is that shortly before this incident with Claw occurred, I finally learned why these people who had pretty much no respect or interaction between each other a month or so before had suddenly banded to closely together
    I read exactly what you said and I explained that it had nothing to do with the site and everything to do with us playing games together. You tried to make it seem like False recruited us and we all the sudden became friends because we all hated Rev and wanted to make Playmaf. It had nothing to do with that in anyway shape or form. That came after the fact that we had been playing SC2, Pogo, iSketch, and making some videos for over a month.
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    ►►Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Tasogare_Akira View Post
    It DIRECTLY concerns me because FT and Muso had the intent of ruining this FM, and spread Claw's gamethrow to the masses. They wanted to, they did, and the reason for doing so is to promote a community shift. Why? Because I called them out on not doing their job. That MAKES THIS MY BUSINESS.
    I proved it had nothing to do with that. So you need to shut up already.

    It had everything to do with Cap and Jack and nothing to do with Muso or False.
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    ►►Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Tasogare_Akira View Post
    When he can't come up for arguments against his actions he cries " DEMOTE ME THEN." They both did. And they got demoted. Any more information you guys need before you go jumping to conclusions? I'm going to stand behind Rev and what he has done for us, by not only providing us these forums and a way to actually PLAY our Forum Mafia games, but as providing us an outlet that that ungrateful hatemonger is trying to usurp.
    This isn't about you or rev. Get the fuck off your high horse of trying to concern this shit about you. You come into this thread laughing with the trolls that support you and then make slanderous accusations without proof.

    At least Jack had the decency to provide proof that made his lie seem less convoluted than it was.

    I don't know you, I don't care for you, but I'd respect your cause if you had any proof. Until then stop derailing the thread with more bullshit.

    Nothing happened to me. I've always been the same. I again will always say while I disliked Jack and Cap's actions, but I don't dislike them. They made a bad call on kicking False out and they made a bad call kicking me out. Both times they did so without talking to either of us. That's shady. When I kicked Crimson and asked for his ban I had proof of their wrong doings and I talked to him first. I talked to Caress. I talked to S.A.S. I got them to give me the information I needed to know who exactly was the person who gave up the information and it was dealt with and done. I didn't go any further than that. I didn't push to say that everyone Crimson knew was involved. I didn't try to ruin Crimson's reputation or his friends. I merely asked that he not be able to participate in FM anymore. Within a day I had already stopped trying to get him banned because I knew the situation should be dropped.

    You have horrible analogy skills Akira because no one in their right might would allow a serial killer to babysit someone. Nor is this situation anything even remotely close to that. This is about me being banned from the forums and trying to make it seem worse with shitty analogies is making you look more and more like an asshat. If you care so little about FM and it's just a "playground" for people then how is it a "serious offense" when I've listed every reason for every action I made. Everyone is ignoring my side and acting like my actions were a vicious attack on Jack and Cap. I've given my reasons why they are not, so where is the outrage of the FM game masters modkilling me for no reason. Where is the outrage for Jack and Cap publicly continuing drama on the Day thread to make me look more like a bad guy when in private they told me they knew what I was doing. I'm not the victim, the players of FM are the victims, but they aren't the victims of just my reveal of 3 roles. They are the victims of mechanical flaws and random rule changes without public knowledge. This isn't a conspiracy theory, but they knew what they were doing. They knew what I was doing. They knew everything that was going on and still decided to change the rules in private multiple times.

    You guys are making this more vicious than it needs to be and some of the people posting here should not even be involved in this if they aren't going to be involved in it normally.

    In case you don't realize that person is 100% Akira.
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    ►►Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm◄◄

    I don't know how I missed the secret conversation between Rev and Muso. Also I don't see where Muso says anything about a site. I just skimmed it so it'd be nice for a highlight if he did, but he just seems upset about the Akira situation and if I'm not mistaken a lot more people than Muso were just as upset.
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    ►►Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubernox View Post
    See, if this new forum wants to go airborne it'll need to rid itself of this drama, and disascosiate itself from all this gamethrowing, of which two thirds of the founding members were part of (Claw and False).

    False was always "that guy who skyped about the FMs", and he was part of the reason that this FM ended so badly. Claw was similar, although they have since made the correct move and removed him from the founding team.


    Muso, however, is blameless, and I wish him well in all of his future endeavours.
    I'll agree that Muso is blameless, as is Waaagh and Yayap.

    I was not a founding member. False and Muso started the site all on their own. I was added with Waaagh and yayap. I have no steak in this operation other than to have fun. I've never been on Skype during an FM prior to this one because I've always hated the constant talking(Not about FM, just the constant orange blerb that annoyed me every second). I can't say that False ever talked about FM the way you made it out to be. However, other than this incident where have I ever associated myself with drama? I've never heard that be said about me before after those 11 games of FM. Sure, I was cocky, dickish, angry, upset, or gleeful, but I don't remember being attached to drama.

    Last night I had to deal with a bunch of shit that I eventually just ignored and went to bed. I slept on it and posted this to correct any flaws in story that had been forming.

    This will not and is never going to be about SC2Mafia Vs. Playmaf. This is always going to be about SC2Mafia's FMs Vs. Playmaf's FMs. We are not the Pepsi to Rev's coke. We are the Mountain Dew to Rev's sprite which is the Sprite to Mafiascum's Coke which is the Coke to TeamLiquid's Pepsi. There are so many sites out there that do this same exact thing that another one isn't going to hurt rev's income like everyone says it will. If anything there will be promotional aspects for both forums if they decide to work together. People who plays SC2Mafia can come here and be part of the community and eventually play FM at Playmaf. The same thing will happen at Playmaf; Players will join our forum for FM and eventually move to SC2Mafia to play some starcraft Mafia. The end goal is that everyone is having fun playing Mafia regardless of the version.

    SC2Mafia is steadily growing again ever since Rev found out about the script update. The community won't be dying any time soon and Rev won't be reduced to ramen and water. SC2Mafia finally made it back to the front page where it has belongs and after a long time at page 2 it's going to be sending more traffic here. Rev won't have the donations that he normally had, but he'll still have the traffic and revenue.
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    ►►Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm◄◄

    I'm going to respond to some of the accusations in the thread by Jack just because I can't post there.

    He says this was all motivated by the new forums. We had no intention of stealing members or anything of the sort. We would obviously invite you all to join, but False had plans to advertise the site elsewhere and build up slowly. There was no reason to not participate in both as I'm trying to participate in 3 FM games coming up. TeamLiquid, MMO-Champion, and the one on Playmaf. It's merely another outlet for those who wish to have fun.

    They said we did it to spite Rev. That's so wrong. This has nothing to do with Rev. I gave Rev a heads up so he knew he could give me the Kevinpowers treatment that everyone so viciously craved.

    My message that I sent to Rev:
    "If you want you can make a cool post on the forums explaining how you banned me to avoid bad PR and pitchforks/torches. Delete my account for added benefit. The mob is gonna gun for me hard. Keep up the good work on SC2Mafia though because I still wanna play that shit daily."

    This literally had nothing to do with rev. I'm donator, I think False and Muso also have donated. We've moderated the site, we've helped test the game since before it was even fully released. We all love SC2Mafia. We do however dislike the huge jump between games. Trolls are cared for on this site even after the switch from the COM forums. Philie has gone as far as to say that she loves the trolls as if they're cute little bunny rabbits. That's what I've never been able to stand. The people who blog in FM day chats or act like they aren't even playing a game. I'm fine with jokes and pushing buttons of others, but the community has slipped up a bit from past FMs. Anonymous accounts may have contributed to that, but as we've seen with FM12 non-anon wasn't fun for the players. There was no way to hide, no way to change a strategy. If you played any different it would be considered scummy and you would die.

    I've already answered the Crimson question. I was angry when I said those things and I, as well as the rest of the forums, have forgiven Crimson even if he is a douchebag.

    On top of that they decided to make a hidden rule that only they knew about where I was screwed anyway. There was no high road there was no chance at getting out. They were mad at me for no reason because as I said...They knew exactly what I was doing and why I was doing it yet decided to get increasingly angry as time went on. I had dropped the issue while they kept making posts about it before eventually just removing the rule entirely.

    I've never really liked Cap because he's always trolled, but while he was on Skype he's completely fine. We had fun playing iSketch and stuff, but then when he goes back to typing he's the biggest troll on the forums.

    Jack on the other hand is the complete opposite. Nothing he says isn't serious. I recruited him to my guild a few months ago and we played a bit before he quit. That's when he started getting confrontational with every little thing. I kept wondering where the fuck the old Jack went because it didn't matter who or what he was agruging against he went full throttle and hated everyone it seemed.

    As for the "these people who hated each other finally bonding together" comment. I had never been on skype before with these guys, but about a month ago I hopped on to play Pogo games with Waaaagh, Deathfire, CMG, Roschi, Raptor, False, and Muso. We played iSketch, SC2 Roulette(Change party leader after each game to choose a new random game we haven't played before), and even some Steam F2P games. This happened about a month and a half ago after the beta for WoW got bottlenecked. The new site didn't pop up until like last week. Also, when have I ever not liked False or Muso. I've loved muso ever since his FM4 jailor chats and the only reason I hated False was because of his stupid power rankings that I thought ruined the game. Also...Have you heard Muso's voice? It's pretty hard to hate that.

    I don't know if there's anything else I missed, but if there is let me know I'll be sure to answer it.

    @creed: Gratz, I hate being mafia and now you know why.
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    ►►Re: Petition to skip Claw's hosting and ban him from fm◄◄

    You guys need to understand a few things before you go off on random tangents about this conspiracy theory.

    The new site was made after False was kicked out and had a lot of free time. Muso, Me, and Waaaagh were committed to playing the game.

    Flashforward to the actual game when I called out Waaaagh as detective. We as a mafia team investigated him the night before and found out he was in the citizen category. We had a code setup that allowed me and the other mafia team members to see what he was.

    That's why I was pestering him about a night action. I knew that if he slipped up and said anything about a night action I'd be able to call him out as investigator and kill the cult leader. Surprise, surprise he was actually cult leader and had I not been jailed I would have let the mafia know to kill Waaaagh even before I realized he really was cult leader. He was acting a bit too strange(Turns out he thought I was the one who witched him the past night)

    So I needed an excuse and Lysergic was being so blatant with breaking the metagame rule that I knew how easy it was going to be. I made a few posts angrily calling out for there to be justice and instead of either ignoring me or being normal about the situation(They knew who I targeted last night and why I was calling Waaaaagh out) they decided to be aggressive and threatening publicly. Cap messaged me on Skype inbetween I think the 1st and the 2nd and 3rd posts by the FM game master regarding this saying: "I wonder if you can convince the town this had nothing to do with the game, because you certainly didn't fool me." So why the need to be so hostile?

    I then found it weird that after that a few people were so aggressive to kill me. I thought for sure Cap or Jack let them know who I was or that I was lying or something. It made no sense for the small group of people to go after me for what was essentially nothing. Little did I know that Jack and Cap were so set on getting me killed they decided to break the actual mechanics of the game to let me get auto-jailed.

    Regardless I was in jail as a godfather that night and I had nothing to do. No version of roleclaiming would save me, I wouldn't be able to trick an Australian, and I wouldn't be able to talk my way out of it. So I had nothing left to lose, but I had to protect my team. It was risky as always, but if I just told him 3 people there is no way the town would believe him and I would have outed the jailor. You can't sit there and tell me that I was gamethrowing when I had nothing else to say. I was promptly modkilled so I figured if Cap wanted to be a dick then I would too. I left my team in my signature and cap removed it. Both times it was about getting a set of 3 names into the public that the "douchebag claw" would totally lie about.

    I had to deal with a lot in the FM4. I had to deal with the mafia talking to the wrong person. I had to deal with 3 trolls talking out of game. I also had to deal with Crimson. If you hadn't noticed Crimson gave away all the mafia when he wasn't on a mafia team. That pretty much sealed the deal for that game. On top of that it had been the first time someone had thrown a game. It wasn't even Crimson that really did it either it was Caress, S.A.S. and Crimson working together to throw the game. I've been public about hating Crimson for that ever since then, but I don't hold grudges for very long if ever. Me and Crimson had talked on skype plenty before this game and I had no issue with him. I of course called him a cheating douchebag, but I call everyone a douchebag.

    Regardless this entire situation could have been avoided if Cap and Jack were blinded by rage goggles. They knew what I was up to, they were angry that I tried to ruin their meta game rule, and they put me in the jail where I was left very little strategic leeway. I'm never going to sit around and do nothing no matter what role I get. I'll always try something new to see if it works and if it doesn't then I won't use it again. I copy, transform, and combine strategies I see used everywhere and that's what makes FM so fun. It's always about trying new things and never just sitting back and letting night actions happen. This has nothing to do with the new website and I had planned on hosting both FM13 and a new game on our new site. I apologize for having the game being ended, but in all honesty it didn't need to be. Nothing that I said was truly worthy of ending the game. I had half the scum roles be told to me after I was modkilled and leaked 0 of them. The only ones I leaked were of my own team and if everyone continues to believe that every player in FM works in his own interest why would I ever release my real teammates? I'd end up losing and that'd be the worst thing in the world.

    Yeah, I'm pretty much done here on this forums, but not because of me getting modkilled. It's because the majority of that past game was intolerable. Not only were people not reading posts and trolling constantly, but as soon as I was modkilled and the information from one side came out everyone leaped to slit my throat. Not one person other than Waaaagh, False, and Muso, waited to hear my side before voting me off the island. Obviously I was angry as fuck last night when I found out everyone was being a cock so I was being a cock back. I wish you guys luck and hopefully FM12 can start back up. I wish I had not been angry and restarted FM4 so if I had any advice to Cap and Jack that'd be it. Here's to hoping everyone reads this post before seeing I posted something and just calling me a jackass.
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    ►►Re: Themes for FM anon account names◄◄

    I'm doing TV characters from all shows for my theme.
  25. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:Narcissistic Personality Disorder

    Thread Author:Muso

    Post Author:Clawtrocity

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    ►►Re: Narcissistic Personality Disorder◄◄

    Yeah, I'm a full on narcissist too. I don't even really care because everyone deep down should only worry about themselves in most situations. Because of this idea that I have I question everything that happens and it makes me a pessimistic. A hero saved some from a burning building? He merely did it for fame and glory of being a hero.

    Someone donates a bunch of money? Must be for tax reasons.
    Help an old lady cross the street? Might be a game show where the lady is a millionaire.
    A guy needs to change his tire? Help him so you get on TV.

    It's always better to do good things and expect good things, but because of that mentality I can't believe that anyone in their right mind would sacrifice some part of them for someone else.

    In a nutshell, Bruno Mars is a fucking retard.
  26. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:Help me with my speech!

    Thread Author:Clawtrocity

    Post Author:Clawtrocity

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    ►►Help me with my speech!◄◄

    Basically it'd be awesome if you read over my speech and gave me any tips, ideas, or changes you think I should make. This is my first draft and I haven't even done the intro yet. Also it'd be nice if you watched the major source of my material "Everything is a remix" and make sure it doesn't sound too similar. I'm perfectly fine with it sounding like a major source, but I don't want to give my teacher any reason to think I plagiarized it. Spelling and grammar mistakes are okay to fix, but I'm mainly worried about the ideas rather than the proofreading aspect. It's due tomorrow morning so you can help out anytime between now and then.



    Copyright: The Creativity Road Block

    Specific Purpose: To inform my audience what Copyright is and the problems it presents worldwide.

    Central Idea: Copyrights are necessary for creators of all mediums and without them there would be chaos in the modern world, however the direction copyright laws are going we are no longer protecting the creators, but instead preventing new creators from prospering.

    Introduction:

    INPROGRESS

    (Transition: First I am going to explain what exactly copyright means, its origins and the ideal purpose behind it.)

    Body:

    I. Copyright is defined as “a form of protection grounded in the U.S. Constitution and granted by law for original works of authorship fixed in a tangible medium of expression. Copyright covers both published and unpublished works.” (copyright.gov)
    A. In a nutshell Copyright prevents people from stealing your work for a short period of time. Copyrights covered media and Patents covered inventions.
    1. In the beginning if you had a blueprint of something then you could copyright it and you would get the rights to sell that product for a short span of time. Remember that because it'll come back shortly. You needed a blueprint of the item.
    2. Nowadays you can also copyright ideas which are known as Intellectual property.
    3. Copyrights protected the person who had to develop the product. If person A had to develop a product and spend money researching the product then person B could just copy it without those research and development costs and sell it for cheaper. Original products cannot compete with copies.
    4. Both the copyright act and the patent act hoped to encourage new ideas rather than copy old ones.
    5. If we were in China right now I would not have to attach a bibliography to this speech. I could even copy something directly from a website. Plagiarism is not a worldwide idea and most find it completely pointless to redo what someone has already done better than you. So we have to cite where we get our information, use our own words, and change it up.
    B. So when we look at Thomas Edison usually the thought of the light bulb sparks up. The light bulb was copyrighted by Thomas Edison, but he didn't just invent the light bulb one day.
    1. Thomas Edison didn't invent the light bulb. His first patent was on improvement in electric lamps.
    2. He did however create the first commercially viable one after 6000 attempts to find the correct filament.
    3. He took existing work and compiled on to it.
    4. You can't just create something out of nothing, creativity isn't magic.
    C. There are three basic elements of creativity and they are to Copy, Transform, and combine.
    1. Hunter S. Thompson copied The Great Gatsby just to get a feel of writing a great novel.
    2. Thomas Edison transformed the existing light bulb to create one that was cheaper and easier to make.
    3. Johann Gutenberg invented the printing press by combining existing parts that had been around for centuries.

    (Transition: So we understand how things are invented and why copyrights are in place, but what has changed today?)

    II. Copyrights today are formed on the same principle they were over a hundred years ago, but the major difference today is that the majority of copyrights are filed for Intellectual properties or ideas. These ideas are vague and can easily be misinterpreted by the wrong person and that's when bad things happen.
    A. In order for me to describe the way ideas are formulated I have to first describe the way we were all formulated. The genes in our bodies can be traced back to over 3 and a half billion years ago to a single organism called LUCA or Last Universal Common Ancestor.
    1. Over time LUCA copied over and over duplicating itself. Eventually it copied with mistakes that ended up creating every one of the billions of spieces on earth.
    2. Some of the species had sexual organs which they used to combine elements of two species to make a new one.
    3. Evolution is based around copying, transforming, and combining.
    B. Culture also evolves like this, but instead of duplicating genes it duplicates memes which are ideas, behaviors, and skills.
    1. Memes just like genes are copied, transformed, and combined.
    2. This is called Social Evolution. New ideas evolve from old ones.
    C. This is the problem that the legal system faces when they have to deal with ideas.
    1. In legal terms ideas are lots of space with distinct boundaries much like a storage facility.
    2. In reality ideas are overlapping.
    D. So today the problem with copyright and patent laws is that they were established under the guise that eventually someone's copyrighted work or patented item would enter the public domain and would be free to use for everyone.
    1. The end goal of having a rich public domain to build upon old ideas without legal worry.
    2. The reason this doesn't exist today is because of a human psychological trait called "Loss aversion".
    3. Loss aversion is when you hate losing what you have. We place higher value on losses than gains.
    4. Disney for instance used the public domain for their early movies, but when it came time to give up copyright on their early original work they filed to extend the copyright term. They were fine using the public domain, but they did not want anyone using their work in the public domain.
    5. Steve Jobs once said "Good artists copy, great artists steal". He then went on to say that he was willing to go thermonuclear war on Android for stealing the idea from him.
    E. Remember when I said that in order to get a patent you needed a blueprint? Flash forward to today's laws and instead of patents we have software patents.
    1. Software patents are nothing more than vague ideas that would describe something if it was even real.
    a. Information Manufacturing Machine which copies anything computer like.
    b. Even Material Object which covers almost everything.
    2. Because of Software patents loose descriptions when they first started popping up there were entire companies that devoted their time to filing copyrights for loosely defined terms.
    a. Patent Trolls are companies or individuals that claimed software patents and go through the court system to make money. Most recently a patent troll company decided to sue over half the video game industry for it's patent on "Virtual worlds". Basically any video game that took place in a 3D world was being sued. There is no information whether the companies have settled out yet, but prior to this most recent matter they have had other companies settle out.
    b. Sample Trolls are known for going to court over sampling done from music. If a song samples another song they will be sued for it and will usually settle out. That's the only way these companies make money because they don't actually produce anything.

    Conclusion:
    So what does all this mean? It means that the original idea of the Copyright act of 1790 to encourage learning was for the common good. We've stepped away from the learning and moved toward the squabbling of money and lawsuits. The common good is a meme that needs to spread again. Some people may say that without copyrights then inventors wouldn't invent and ideas wouldn't prosper, but I'll leave you with this. What would happen if Thomas Edison didn't invent the commercially available light bulb or Henry ford didn't invent the automobile? Would we not be as technologically advance as we are today? In history we've learned that when someone thinks of something there usually happens to be a breakthrough across the world almost simultaneously. Issac Newton and Godfrey Leibniz both invented calculus around the same year. Alexander Graham Bell and Elisha Gray filed the patent for the telephone on the same day. This phenomenon is called Multiple Discovery and it's when new ideas are spawned at different places from different people. No idea is original, in fact this speech that your listening to right now is nothing new. I merely took the ideas of others and compiled them into a format that is easily transcribed in under 7 minutes. Sometimes innovations are just inevitable and if more people realized that copyrights were nothing more than a race to see who could finish first then I believe there would be less struggle over the ideas themselves. Henry Ford once said "To teach that a comparatively few men are responsible for the greatest forward steps in mankind is the worst sort of nonsense"
  27. Replies
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    ►►Re: Darklordnem, the community would like to hear from you!◄◄

    Biggie Smalls, Biggie Smalls, Biggie Smalls!

    ah hamburgers.
  28. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:Staff Changes

    Thread Author:Dark.Revenant

    Post Author:Clawtrocity

    Replies
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    ►►Re: Staff Changes◄◄

    Now it may not feel too classy, begging just to eat...But you know who does that? Lassie. And she always gets a treat. So you wonder what your part is when you're banned and infracted. These forums are where your heart is so you're real home is in your chest. Everyone's a moderator in their own way, everyone has trolls they must face. They're not as cool as mine, but guys come on you know it's fine to know your place. Everyone is a moderator in their own not that heroic way. I'm these forums new sheriff and I'm bashing in the trolls. A moderator doesn't care if you're a bunch of scary alcoholic nubs.
  29. Forum:News

    Thread:FMXII Signup Thread

    Thread Author:Capitalier

    Post Author:Clawtrocity

    Replies
    322
    Views
    30,774

    ►►Re: FMXII Signup Thread◄◄

    Sign me up
  30. Replies
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    ►►Re: 2 More Pandaria is Beautiful videos◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJackofSpades View Post
    If not him then who? Everyone after him just echoed the same opinion.
    Someone called it ugly and another talked about the price tag. Uber was talking about the gameplay which I made no reference to in my post.
  31. Replies
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    ►►Re: 2 More Pandaria is Beautiful videos◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubernox View Post
    Where's the "thinks he's the only person in the thread" fallacy? lol

    I wasn't aiming that at you. You raised good points, but regardless I wasn't saying anything about the gameplay in my initial post. I never said that the gameplay did or did not suck. I was merely stating that WoW does great with what it has. So technically you're the one who's using the straw man fallacy. checkmate
  32. Replies
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    ►►Re: 2 More Pandaria is Beautiful videos◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJackofSpades View Post
    You mean like renaissance China?
    Lul no

    Wow has normal houses and shit too that's not what I meant. I meant things like Bastion of Twilight, Firelands, Ulduar, the swamps filled with elementals, and the forests filled with Sentient Insect People. All I'm saying is that it's impossible to compare a game like BF3 or Crysis to WoW or The Witcher.

    WoW manages to pull off some awesome environments with way less required effort on my computer. That's what I like to see.
  33. Replies
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    ►►Re: 2 More Pandaria is Beautiful videos◄◄

    First of all, those games have realism, but real life already has that. When I play a game I want to go to a different place with architecture that's not possible. Think "The Nightmare Before Christmas".
  34. Replies
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    ►►Re: 2 More Pandaria is Beautiful videos◄◄

    Damn guys, I made these videos to show the new places not to force you to buy WoW.

    What I said: "Wow MoP looks amazing"
    What you heard: "IF YOU DON'T BUY WOW UR GAY FAGET CAUSE iT' PRETY"
  35. Replies
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    ►►2 More Pandaria is Beautiful videos◄◄





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    ►►Pandaria is Beautiful: Envy (MoP Beta video)◄◄

    Check out this neat video I did done make:



    It's part of a series called "Pandaria is Beautiful" where I go through each zone exploring the majesty that is Pandaria.
  37. Replies
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    ►►Re: [Spoilers] The Walking Dead Episode 12: Better Angels◄◄

    I heard that Shane was suppose to die in the first few episodes and stuck around this long anyway. Either way both of their deaths were huge to the storyline that the TV show had going and Shanes death was a hell of a lot more dramatic and intense than Dale's. I thought Dale's death being so sudden was amazing because it was the producers and writers telling us "Hey, we can kill any of these guys off at any time so be ready". I was shocked it happened so soon after though.

    Carl aimed the gun too soon though. He was aiming it at Rick for a good 20 seconds before Shane even got up. I don't understand why he got so dark and where he lost his innocence. I'm assuming it's ever since he got the hat on, but I can't remember when it started.

    After I typed up what I said I realized that Hershel is the only one with medical experience so I guess he won't die. He's gotta stay around for the baby and for whenever Carl shoots someone.

    T-Dawg is as token as a token black guy can be. He's more token than Token from South Park.
  38. Replies
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    ►►Re: [Spoilers] Awake Episode 2: The Little Guy◄◄

    No I don't think he was. I'm 90% sure he created 2 different realities or is in 2 different realities in some shape or form. Another thing I noticed is that we haven't had a red test yet. We had the constitution test in the green world and that scared him that if he tried it in the red world he'd break it and lose both his wife and his son.

    We're being told what world people are in by filter, their clothes, and things in the setting. His dinner plates and things were all green with Rex and red with his wife.

    This leads me to believe that we don't know which world the captain is in at the end. She's wearing a green shirt and surrounded by green trees and grass, but because it's at a sunset it has the same filter effect that the red world has. That's what I didn't like about it. I don't want this scientific "Assassin's Creed" type thing going on. I've never played Assassin's Creed before so I don't know exactly what's going on, but I know he's not really an assassin he's in a computer generated world.

    If he has this ability to transfer between two different realities then it'll be more interesting than in the next season that whole thing is gone because it was just an experiment type thing.
  39. Forum:Mafia Discussion

    Thread:Is asking for alignment cheating?

    Thread Author:Xifon

    Post Author:Clawtrocity

    Replies
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    ►►Re: Is asking for alignment cheating?◄◄

    Umm no offense Claw but this has been a rule enforced since it began to arise in early June. Pretty much everyone who mattered universally agreed that role card reading was bullshit and shouldn't ever take hold as an acceptable metagame.
    I was one of those people, but you guys are banning for it? There was nothing we could do about it and we chalked it up to it's bullshit and you shouldn't do it. I don't think punishing people for it is a good idea at all.
  40. Replies
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    ►►[Spoilers] Awake Episode 2: The Little Guy◄◄

    This is a thread to discuss the latest episode of Awake. If you have no seen this episode then please do not continue reading as there will be many spoilers.

    So Awake has been getting publicity for being interesting, new, different, and intense. This episode was pretty solid, but not as good as the pilot. I enjoyed that they keep using the main plot focus of him being in two different realities helping each other out. The fabric softner and the motorcycle were both awesome. What surprised me the most is that I thought this show would be what it's about now and it's already slipping away from that by adding this conspiracy element to it at the end. I can't say it's going to work or not work because I haven't seen it yet, but I felt as though it was unnecessary. The way his realities are trying to tie things together with the "little guy" and the "611" (Two times in pilot and the tall guy was 6'11") we're slowly starting to understand with Michael what happened that night.

    The best part of the entire show is the way it's filmed though. With the different filters and tones for each reality. In this episode they took it a step further to add in red and green items everywhere and they change depending on which reality he's in. This seems to be a directors choice, but it's been somewhat consistent so far. Jason Issacs is amazing so far too. He's exactly the kind of guy you want in a show like this. Just like Tim Roth was 100% perfect for Lie to Me Lucius Malfoy is great for playing this character.

    According to people who have seen the first 4 episodes through promotional releases the next two are supposedly better than even the pilot. It was hinted that Michael tries to take a bunch of pills to knock himself out to go and save his son. These are the types of things that will make this show extremely likable. I can only hope NBC doesn't have anything lined up for this spot because Awake is something that needs time to grow and people to talk about it.
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    ►►[Spoilers] The Walking Dead Episode 12: Better Angels◄◄

    This is a thread to discuss the latest episode of The Walking Dead. If you have no seen this episode then please do not continue reading as there will be many spoilers.

    I just started watching The Walking Dead after seeing it on Netflix. I have since caught up and will agree with the majority that it's a great show.

    These past two episodes, however have been extremely huge. I thought Dale died to build up the tension that anyone could die at any time. Now that they've killed off Shane too I'm starting to think they will take this show wherever they want. They realized that hunting for Sophia was boring and pointless(Even if it made Darryl look somewhat human) that they are going in an entirely new direction.

    I haven't read the comics and I don't plan to because I want this to be interesting and new and not "Well the comics did it better"

    I know from reading other discussions that apparently a jail is the next setting, but I don't know anything about it other than that. Glenn and Darryl need to stay the fuck alive though because they are by far my favorite two "main" characters. I assume that in the next few episodes we will see the horde slowly take over the farm and they move out to happen upon this jail which will take us to the next season. I suspect half of Hershel's family getting killed by the horde and Herschel himself either committing suicide or "sacrificing himself" for the good of the group. One more person from Rick's group might die soon too, but after already losing Shane and Dale I don't know if they can afford it.

    Discuss and be sure to check out the other threads I'm making for some more TV shows that aired this past week.
  42. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:Television Discussions

    Thread Author:Clawtrocity

    Post Author:Clawtrocity

    Replies
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    ►►Re: Television Discussions◄◄

    I could easily make the threads in here on general, but I feel like there would be more trolling and less discussions going on. We'll get it shot and see what happens. I'll make one for a handful of television shows that are on air now.
  43. Forum:Mafia Discussion

    Thread:Is asking for alignment cheating?

    Thread Author:Xifon

    Post Author:Clawtrocity

    Replies
    41
    Views
    4,886

    ►►Re: Is asking for alignment cheating?◄◄

    SC2 Mafia has rules like this now? What the fuck are you guys doing in there?
  44. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:Television Discussions

    Thread Author:Clawtrocity

    Post Author:Clawtrocity

    Replies
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    ►►Television Discussions◄◄

    I ask that there be a television discussion board be added to the list of available discussion topics.

    Members will be able to create a discussion for television episodes as they air. They won't be spoiler free so the discussion is for after you have seen the episode.

    I enjoy reading discussions and reviews by a lot of people and after some of the other discussions I've had so far I would love if this could be another place for us to talk about our favorite shows.

    I'd moderate the board if need be to keep trolls off the board and off the discussions.
  45. Forum:Puzzles and Other Forum Games

    Thread:Admirals Puzzle #1

    Thread Author:Admiral

    Post Author:Clawtrocity

    Replies
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    ►►Re: Admirals Puzzle #1◄◄

    The money was laced with Ricen and the man considered it was a move.

    The man didn't take Necro's life he just ended it.
  46. Replies
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    ►►Re: Lateral Thinking Puzzle #1: NO SOAP RADIO!!◄◄

    No soap radio is a pointless punchline to a nonexistant joke. The idea is that it tricks people into conforming or not conforming when you say it.

    Go to a group of friends and say that joke. The ones who have heard it will laugh because they know what's going on. The one's who don't understand it will laugh to fit it. The ones who don't understand it and don't laugh will question it. Those are the people that are smart because they question nonsense and don't just fall into line like sheep. If you want to test them further just say "Don't you get it? "NO SOAP, RADIO!" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA". If they laugh then it means they will eventually fall to peer pressure and so on and so forth.

    The whole thing is psychoanalytical bullshit.
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    ►►Re: Fucking your cousin, doesn't equal incest◄◄

    Looks more like Kiefer Sutherland
  48. Replies
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    ►►Re: Crimson's First Puzzle!◄◄

    Blue was killing by firing squad for committing murder.

    All four were underwater and ran out of oxygen.

    The sun exploded killing all four at the same time.

    They were at the bottom of a snowy mountain and the final gunshot caused an avalanche which killed Blue
  49. Replies
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    ►►Re: Fucking your cousin, doesn't equal incest◄◄

    To start off: I'm an only child and my only cousin is not attractive at all.

    If you're having sex with someone who is the same race as you(Caucasian, African, Hispanic, Asian) You have some blood relation somewhere. Some retarded cavemen in Europe had butt sex and had retarded buttsex babies and eventually populated europe by moving into different tribes, getting names, and becoming civilized. The only big difference is that the fish monkeys that washed up on shore in Asia are different from the ones that washed up in Africa, America, Europe and such. Even that isn't a sure way to make sure there is 0 blood relation(If we're talking about going back up the tree to the start) Everyone would end up being related somehow. We're all the same genetic species.

    I don't know enough about genetics to say that's true or not, but if that's the way it works then there should be no reason not to. I highly doubt I'm 100% right and I'm sure after lets say 10 generations the bloodline is severed and it's completely different DNA or what have you. Regardless men and women have distinct features that they are attracted to. You can't help that kind of shit. It's the same reason gay people enjoy throbbing cocks rather than big eyes, breasts, small chins, and a vagina. It's genetic. You cannot help being attracted to your attractive cousin. You can however try your best not to rape her and in the end you'll do just fine. Think of her as a celebrity. You're attracted to Scarlett Johansson, but the thought of you two being together is just a fantasy. It'll never happen. On the off chance that you're somewhat attractive yourself and find yourself next to a drunken Scarlett Johansson and have sex with her then you have the universes permission to fuck your cousin if she's into it.
  50. Forum:General Discussion

    Thread:Kony 2012 is stupid

    Thread Author:McJesus

    Post Author:Clawtrocity

    Replies
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    Views
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    ►►Re: Kony 2012 is stupid◄◄

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLVY5jBnD-E

    Uganda native vlogging about the issues. I've been discussing this on reddit for the past few days and it's sad to see the majority of people behind this movement are Justin Beiber fans. The only other people posting this are the same ones who would post a chain letter message, go to a soup kitchen to take a few picture for the church wall and leave, and of course the few that know exactly what's happening and are happy to see the issue get the awareness it deserves.
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