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[QUOTE=Citrus;384199]I was sure enough that I did not have enough clues[/QUOTE]You had all of them.
The problem was that one needed to have all clues or one wouldn't notice that the missing chant is not given by clues. Under optimal circumstances the main puzzle could have been solved by night 4 and all clues have to be retrieved and trusted.

Originally Posted by Citrus

I was sure enough that I did not have enough clues

You had all of them.
The problem was that one needed to have all clues or one wouldn't notice that the missing chant is not given by clues. Under optimal circumstances the main puzzle could have been solved by night 4 and all clues have to be retrieved and trusted.

[vote]FM Mazzy[/vote]
Quite the impressive performance for the little time she had.

-vote FM Mazzy

Quite the impressive performance for the little time she had.

Account Name: MAHHEROX
Account ID: 2-S2-1-4123790
In-Game Name: mrs Smitters

Account Name: Xoppи
Account ID: 2-S2-2-107634
In-Game Name: pozitif

Account Name: Rayman
Account ID: 2-S2-2-399981
In-Game Name: Mr Smith

Crimes Committed: Game-Throwing

Your Account Name: Phyr
Summary: Fast forward to the endgame day 6+: MAHHEROX (CTRL+3), the Jailor, knew for a fact who the SK is and chose not to lynch or execute him. Xoppи (CTRL+5) seems to be in cahoots with him. This might also be a case of skyping (thus I listed Rayman as well) but the evidence is quite weak for that.

Account Name: MAHHEROX
Account ID: 2-S2-1-4123790
In-Game Name: mrs Smitters

Account Name: Xoppи
Account ID: 2-S2-2-107634
In-Game Name: pozitif

Account Name: Rayman
Account ID: 2-S2-2-399981
In-Game Name: Mr Smith

Crimes Committed: Game-Throwing

Your Account Name: Phyr
Summary: Fast forward to the endgame day 6+: MAHHEROX (CTRL+3), the Jailor, knew for a fact who the SK is and chose not to lynch or execute him. Xoppи (CTRL+5) seems to be in cahoots with him. This might also be a case of skyping (thus I listed Rayman as well) but the evidence is quite weak for that.

Is the starting date set in stone now?

Is the starting date set in stone now?

Question Miscellaneous 22 appears to be a different question than the one asked. Let me reiterate:
[COLOR=#00FF00]An Evoker previously placed a fireball at player A's home. Player A is not at home but a Cleric intends to visit him. The Cleric is tracked by a Ranger. What feedback does the Ranger receive?[/COLOR]
If the answer give in Miscellaneous 22 holds true the Cleric will not appear to have visited anybody despite being killed by a fireball (that obviously didn't kill the Ranger). This seems counterintuitive as the Cleric has to visit his target to get fireballed. A similar scenario would be a (Cleric targeted) Ranger watching the fireballed target that gets visited by roles visiting after kills occur in the OoO.

[COLOR=#00FF00]Are there other instances where a undefined visitation (i.e. Ranger tracking a dead player) yield (special) results when they normally should not?[/COLOR]

Question Miscellaneous 22 appears to be a different question than the one asked. Let me reiterate:
An Evoker previously placed a fireball at player A's home. Player A is not at home but a Cleric intends to visit him. The Cleric is tracked by a Ranger. What feedback does the Ranger receive?
If the answer give in Miscellaneous 22 holds true the Cleric will not appear to have visited anybody despite being killed by a fireball (that obviously didn't kill the Ranger). This seems counterintuitive as the Cleric has to visit his target to get fireballed. A similar scenario would be a (Cleric targeted) Ranger watching the fireballed target that gets visited by roles visiting after kills occur in the OoO.

Are there other instances where a undefined visitation (i.e. Ranger tracking a dead player) yield (special) results when they normally should not?

[COLOR="#00FF00"]Will roles receive (additional/regular) feedback for undefined visitations? Example: Being Shaman lured onto a dead Enchantress when only living players are valid targets. Special case for a Ranger using his tracking ability in that example?[/COLOR]

Will roles receive (additional/regular) feedback for undefined visitations? Example: Being Shaman lured onto a dead Enchantress when only living players are valid targets. Special case for a Ranger using his tracking ability in that example?

[COLOR=#00FF00]In the scenario described in question Bhaalspawn 19 will those performing their night action after kills occur look to be visiting their targets to Detective/Lookout actions or will it seem like they stayed at home?
Will a fireball not explode and remain active if such a role gets killed before visiting?[/COLOR]

In the scenario described in question Bhaalspawn 19 will those performing their night action after kills occur look to be visiting their targets to Detective/Lookout actions or will it seem like they stayed at home?
Will a fireball not explode and remain active if such a role gets killed before visiting?

Would it be possible to get one of those?
Preferably only including threads/posts you are subscribed to via forum/thread subscription?

This could be considered a security issue though. All you need to have is the member-specific RSS feed url and you could get (read-only) access to parts of the forum you are not supposed to have. This would obviously only work if that member is subscribed to the part of the forum in question.

I don't know if there is a module for vBulletin you can simply plug in, but if there is I would welcome seeing it used.

My motivation for this is the ease of getting notifications to the parts of the forum you are instead in. The subscription feature of the forum is lackluster at best (control panel only or email notifications with delays), plus it would go easy on my mobile Internet usage when checking the forum for updates.

Would it be possible to get one of those?
Preferably only including threads/posts you are subscribed to via forum/thread subscription?

This could be considered a security issue though. All you need to have is the member-specific RSS feed url and you could get (read-only) access to parts of the forum you are not supposed to have. This would obviously only work if that member is subscribed to the part of the forum in question.

I don't know if there is a module for vBulletin you can simply plug in, but if there is I would welcome seeing it used.

My motivation for this is the ease of getting notifications to the parts of the forum you are instead in. The subscription feature of the forum is lackluster at best (control panel only or email notifications with delays), plus it would go easy on my mobile Internet usage when checking the forum for updates.

[COLOR=#00FF00]On the answer to question Cult 21: Will the Bhaalspawn be notified of having resisted a manipulation/culting?[/COLOR]

[COLOR="#00FF00"]Does the Evoker need to be alive to activate fireballs? Relevant if Evoker gets lynched after casting a new fireball.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="#00FF00"]Comprehensive tie breaker mechanic? It's quite possible that the Cult ends up without kills and the Adventurers in a situation where they can't/might not want to lynch.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="#00FF00"]Can a culted Amnesiac remember a dead role that is otherwise immune to conversion? i.e. Bounty Hunter, Cleric[/COLOR]

[COLOR="#00FF00"]Does a culted Amnesiac automatically convert to the culted equivalent of a remembered role? i.e. Beguiler in case of remembering a Heartwarder.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="#00FF00"]What happens if Warden and Heartwarder choose the same target?[/COLOR]

[COLOR="#00FF00"]A Shaman commanding an Enchantress to lure somebody forces the target to visit the dead body of the Enchantress?[/COLOR]

[COLOR="#00FF00"]An action that can't target dead bodies counts as an illegal action if (forced) on a dead target?[/COLOR]

[COLOR="#00FF00"]Answer to question Town 2 contradicts the Shaman role card. One states that the Prophet can't be commanded the other states that it will use the Prophet's manipulation ability. Same is true for Harpers.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="#00FF00"]Are the threads in every night chat after closure moved to a special archive subforum to which the Doppleganger has no access opposed to normal members of that night chat?[/COLOR]

[COLOR="#00FF00"]Are night chats restricted to one thread per night?[/COLOR]

[COLOR="#00FF00"]Post night actions in night chat opposed to sending them in to the hosts via PM; which takes preference? Can the Prophet overwrite the actions of all Cult members without their knowledge?[/COLOR]

[COLOR="#00FF00"]Will the RP show if a Thief was successful in opening the sanctum and robbing Bhaal's dagger?[/COLOR]

On the answer to question Cult 21: Will the Bhaalspawn be notified of having resisted a manipulation/culting?

Does the Evoker need to be alive to activate fireballs? Relevant if Evoker gets lynched after casting a new fireball.

Comprehensive tie breaker mechanic? It's quite possible that the Cult ends up without kills and the Adventurers in a situation where they can't/might not want to lynch.

Can a culted Amnesiac remember a dead role that is otherwise immune to conversion? i.e. Bounty Hunter, Cleric

Does a culted Amnesiac automatically convert to the culted equivalent of a remembered role? i.e. Beguiler in case of remembering a Heartwarder.

What happens if Warden and Heartwarder choose the same target?

A Shaman commanding an Enchantress to lure somebody forces the target to visit the dead body of the Enchantress?

An action that can't target dead bodies counts as an illegal action if (forced) on a dead target?

Answer to question Town 2 contradicts the Shaman role card. One states that the Prophet can't be commanded the other states that it will use the Prophet's manipulation ability. Same is true for Harpers.

Are the threads in every night chat after closure moved to a special archive subforum to which the Doppleganger has no access opposed to normal members of that night chat?

Are night chats restricted to one thread per night?

Post night actions in night chat opposed to sending them in to the hosts via PM; which takes preference? Can the Prophet overwrite the actions of all Cult members without their knowledge?

Will the RP show if a Thief was successful in opening the sanctum and robbing Bhaal's dagger?

[COLOR="#00FF00"]Do fireballs remain active after the Evoker died?[/COLOR]

Do fireballs remain active after the Evoker died?

Neutral 14: You misunderstood. The feedback for the Ghost is missing. When they get killed (getting notified of the killing faction) and when they assume a new account.

[COLOR=#00FF00]Is the Ghost affected by bus driving/shadowing? If yes, include feedback for a failed possession? (Failed try to repossess the target of last night. )[/COLOR]

Cult 26: [COLOR=#00FF00]Quartermaster receives no feedback for a successful assignment? This is relevant for assigning before the sanctum is unsealed.[/Color]

Neutral 14: You misunderstood. The feedback for the Ghost is missing. When they get killed (getting notified of the killing faction) and when they assume a new account.

Is the Ghost affected by bus driving/shadowing? If yes, include feedback for a failed possession? (Failed try to repossess the target of last night. )

Cult 26: Quartermaster receives no feedback for a successful assignment? This is relevant for assigning before the sanctum is unsealed.

My bad on question 62. Bard was meant to be a Paragon smiting A, because the Paragon is able to affect the Illusionist even if he comes before him in the OoO.
So actual question:
[COLOR=#00ff00]Illusionist switches self with player A. Paragon smites player A. What happens?[/COLOR]

Answer to question 64 doesn't really help me.
If a Monk targets a living player then he submitted an illegal action. If that player dies during the night it suddenly becomes a legal action. So when is the legality of a night action checked?

My bad on question 62. Bard was meant to be a Paragon smiting A, because the Paragon is able to affect the Illusionist even if he comes before him in the OoO.
So actual question:
Illusionist switches self with player A. Paragon smites player A. What happens?

Answer to question 64 doesn't really help me.
If a Monk targets a living player then he submitted an illegal action. If that player dies during the night it suddenly becomes a legal action. So when is the legality of a night action checked?

[COLOR=#00FF00]Will the cult target of the Doppelganger(Disguiser) still appear in the members list sent to the remainder of the cult? Will they still gain access to the night chat after the sanctum was opened?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Answer to question 8 is contradicting the Quartermaster role card. It states that any hidden cult role can be assigned to an assassin. The role card states that no role that already exists can be assigned.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Add to Antagonist(Executioner) that he has to survive until the end in order to win? Otherwise they will want to suicide in order to make sure they don't get culted. Same is true for the Thief.[/COLOR]

[s][COLOR=#00FF00]Will the Avenger(Ghost) stay in the game if he lost the game (killed my neutral) or do they lose their ability to possess somebody?[/COLOR][/s]
Answered by the "Special" part in the role card.

[COLOR=#00FF00]When do suicides happen in the OoO?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Lunatic(Jester) may choose to kill any living player including those that did not lynch them? It looks to me that this gives the Lunatic some kind of leverage to get lynched easily - not in the spirit of the role imo. "Lynch me and I kill [remaining players/5] targets for you."[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Will Doppelganger(Disguiser) charges be used up regardless of success?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Can the Illusionist(BD) redirect Lunatic(Jester) kills? What effects can't be redirected by them (obviously only talking about those coming after them in the OoO)? i.e. Warden execute[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]How does the Illusionist(BD) interact with self-visits (Warden(Jailor) execute, Herald(Journalist) publishing, Deviner scrying)?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]What happens if the Illusionist(BD) switches the target of the Warden(Jailor) and the Warden releases? Who will the Warden appear to visit?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Warden(Jailor) role card states that the "target gains night immunity and is perfectly roleblocked". This implies that executions pierce night immunity or an execution would be doing nothing. This also implies that the Warden is the only role to be able to kill those protected by the sealed sanctum as capturing is a "perfect roleblock".[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Does capturing prevent any other effects than night kills? Swapping, Luring, attuning, cursing being possible examples.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Is the Amnesiac able to bypass the maximum number of living cultist restriction?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Illusionist switches self with player A. Bard roleblocks player A. What happens?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Do assignments have to be successful to trigger the cooldown? Think of kills, bus driving, luring.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Do night actions have to legal when deciding on them or when they happen in the OoO?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Illegal actions are the same as if the player didn't submit any action at all?[/COLOR]

[s][COLOR=#00FF00]Why does manipulating the Shadow Adept result in a double kill (answer to 13)? The role card states that the target is only killed if it visits another attuned one. It should include that attuning it a second time will kill it if aforementioned is meant to happen. And even then, doesn't the second attuning eat up the first one resulting in 1 attack and 1 attuning should the target survive (answer to 23)?[/COLOR][/s]
I found the answer it in the "Special" part of the role card.
[COLOR=#00FF00]Attuning a target a second time does nothing?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]How do the night chat archives work?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Adventurers/Harpers do not have to survive in order to win? I.e. if only the Druid survives, Druid, Adventurer and Harpers win.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Max of 1 vest per night used? Same for alchemist's fire?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]The way the Harpers are worded right now a Harper would permanently unlock their recruiting ability if a fellow Harper dies. I take it that it is meant to work only once to replenish the numbers.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Can an Apprentice(Student) permanently increase the maximum Harpers member size by 1?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Can two Explorer become Harpers if united by the Heartwarder? Does this increase the members size permanently?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Does uniting duplicate every night action? I'm eying on vests and guns. How does this affect investigative roles? Do they receive feedback for both (separated as if drugged)? Does the Ranger only get one result with all players visiting either one of them in?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]What happens if the Prophet converted more than one Baalspawn before the unsealing of the sanctum?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]According to the OoO the Cult members notification will be sent out at the end of the day. That means the Prophet doesn't know if the conversion on their intended target was successful or not until the end of the day?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Does the Cult really don't know which roles they have unless the sanctum is unsealed and they tell their roles to each other? Or will those be listed and updated regularly after the forming of the night chats?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Can the extra night kills (Thief opening sanctum) all be performed by one cult member or is it one kill per killer max?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Is conversion and manipulation listed for the Ritualist(Mortician) even if the target was immune to those actions?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Will the puzzles at the locations change from night to night until the correct solution for the appropriate puzzle is given or will they stay the same throughout the game? Will each further night come with additional clues to solve the puzzles?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Can the Shadow Adept attach a different message to each individual attunement?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Will the exact number of kills and their respective sources (physical/magic) be listed in the death descriptions?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Will it be clear which last will is associated with a dead player?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Is the position of drugged feedback appropriately randomized?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Will Half-Dragon (Veteran), Shadow Adept (Electromaniac), Necromancer (Arsonist/Framer), Evoker (Interceptor) receive a "survived" feedback message for each target surviving their attacks?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Does curse removal count as successful even if the target wasn't previously cursed?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Avenger feedback is missing in the feedback messages.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Executioner failure feedback is missing. (Doppelganger hitting Executioner target)[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Quartermaster new role assignment feedback is missing.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Feedback for successfully solving the (main) puzzle/clues/reward?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Feedback for Bounty Hunter about who was the kill target?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Will the Avenger(Ghost) gain access to all feedback messages/PMs of their possessed target? Implies feedback for Thief's success in robbing Bhaal's Dagger.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]A culted Amnesiac is forced by the Cult Leader to remember a dead Spawn of Baal. Kinda sucks for the Amnesiac as he will never be Leader and is nearly guaranteed to lose if the Prophet is killed/replaced by a Spawn of Bhaal.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=#00FF00]Is the Heartwarder night chat anonymous?[/COLOR]

Will the cult target of the Doppelganger(Disguiser) still appear in the members list sent to the remainder of the cult? Will they still gain access to the night chat after the sanctum was opened?

Answer to question 8 is contradicting the Quartermaster role card. It states that any hidden cult role can be assigned to an assassin. The role card states that no role that already exists can be assigned.

Add to Antagonist(Executioner) that he has to survive until the end in order to win? Otherwise they will want to suicide in order to make sure they don't get culted. Same is true for the Thief.

Will the Avenger(Ghost) stay in the game if he lost the game (killed my neutral) or do they lose their ability to possess somebody?
Answered by the "Special" part in the role card.

When do suicides happen in the OoO?

Lunatic(Jester) may choose to kill any living player including those that did not lynch them? It looks to me that this gives the Lunatic some kind of leverage to get lynched easily - not in the spirit of the role imo. "Lynch me and I kill [remaining players/5] targets for you."

Will Doppelganger(Disguiser) charges be used up regardless of success?

Can the Illusionist(BD) redirect Lunatic(Jester) kills? What effects can't be redirected by them (obviously only talking about those coming after them in the OoO)? i.e. Warden execute

How does the Illusionist(BD) interact with self-visits (Warden(Jailor) execute, Herald(Journalist) publishing, Deviner scrying)?

What happens if the Illusionist(BD) switches the target of the Warden(Jailor) and the Warden releases? Who will the Warden appear to visit?

Warden(Jailor) role card states that the "target gains night immunity and is perfectly roleblocked". This implies that executions pierce night immunity or an execution would be doing nothing. This also implies that the Warden is the only role to be able to kill those protected by the sealed sanctum as capturing is a "perfect roleblock".

Does capturing prevent any other effects than night kills? Swapping, Luring, attuning, cursing being possible examples.

Is the Amnesiac able to bypass the maximum number of living cultist restriction?

Illusionist switches self with player A. Bard roleblocks player A. What happens?

Do assignments have to be successful to trigger the cooldown? Think of kills, bus driving, luring.

Do night actions have to legal when deciding on them or when they happen in the OoO?

Illegal actions are the same as if the player didn't submit any action at all?

Why does manipulating the Shadow Adept result in a double kill (answer to 13)? The role card states that the target is only killed if it visits another attuned one. It should include that attuning it a second time will kill it if aforementioned is meant to happen. And even then, doesn't the second attuning eat up the first one resulting in 1 attack and 1 attuning should the target survive (answer to 23)?
I found the answer it in the "Special" part of the role card.
Attuning a target a second time does nothing?

How do the night chat archives work?

Adventurers/Harpers do not have to survive in order to win? I.e. if only the Druid survives, Druid, Adventurer and Harpers win.

Max of 1 vest per night used? Same for alchemist's fire?

The way the Harpers are worded right now a Harper would permanently unlock their recruiting ability if a fellow Harper dies. I take it that it is meant to work only once to replenish the numbers.

Can an Apprentice(Student) permanently increase the maximum Harpers member size by 1?

Can two Explorer become Harpers if united by the Heartwarder? Does this increase the members size permanently?

Does uniting duplicate every night action? I'm eying on vests and guns. How does this affect investigative roles? Do they receive feedback for both (separated as if drugged)? Does the Ranger only get one result with all players visiting either one of them in?

What happens if the Prophet converted more than one Baalspawn before the unsealing of the sanctum?

According to the OoO the Cult members notification will be sent out at the end of the day. That means the Prophet doesn't know if the conversion on their intended target was successful or not until the end of the day?

Does the Cult really don't know which roles they have unless the sanctum is unsealed and they tell their roles to each other? Or will those be listed and updated regularly after the forming of the night chats?

Can the extra night kills (Thief opening sanctum) all be performed by one cult member or is it one kill per killer max?

Is conversion and manipulation listed for the Ritualist(Mortician) even if the target was immune to those actions?

Will the puzzles at the locations change from night to night until the correct solution for the appropriate puzzle is given or will they stay the same throughout the game? Will each further night come with additional clues to solve the puzzles?

Can the Shadow Adept attach a different message to each individual attunement?

Will the exact number of kills and their respective sources (physical/magic) be listed in the death descriptions?

Will it be clear which last will is associated with a dead player?

Is the position of drugged feedback appropriately randomized?

Will Half-Dragon (Veteran), Shadow Adept (Electromaniac), Necromancer (Arsonist/Framer), Evoker (Interceptor) receive a "survived" feedback message for each target surviving their attacks?

Does curse removal count as successful even if the target wasn't previously cursed?

Avenger feedback is missing in the feedback messages.

Executioner failure feedback is missing. (Doppelganger hitting Executioner target)

Quartermaster new role assignment feedback is missing.

Feedback for successfully solving the (main) puzzle/clues/reward?

Feedback for Bounty Hunter about who was the kill target?

Will the Avenger(Ghost) gain access to all feedback messages/PMs of their possessed target? Implies feedback for Thief's success in robbing Bhaal's Dagger.

A culted Amnesiac is forced by the Cult Leader to remember a dead Spawn of Baal. Kinda sucks for the Amnesiac as he will never be Leader and is nearly guaranteed to lose if the Prophet is killed/replaced by a Spawn of Bhaal.

Is the Heartwarder night chat anonymous?

Look at the Disguiser in this setup and look at what happened in FMX. Claiming COMs should definitely not be allowed in this game.

Look at the Disguiser in this setup and look at what happened in FMX. Claiming COMs should definitely not be allowed in this game.

Next time sink in.
/sign

Next time sink in.
/sign

[QUOTE=Boss;340861]It would have decimated the savages. Mafia would have then lost with just the six of them. For sure[/QUOTE]
I don't follow your reasoning. It is not in the interest of the Mafia to kill the SGF. They just don't want the Savages to get strong. Forcing them to kill Town is in the Mafia's interest. If the SGF does not comply, simply kill him after 2, 3 or 4 nights. That way a Savage will survive and be forced into killing town.

Originally Posted by Boss

It would have decimated the savages. Mafia would have then lost with just the six of them. For sure

I don't follow your reasoning. It is not in the interest of the Mafia to kill the SGF. They just don't want the Savages to get strong. Forcing them to kill Town is in the Mafia's interest. If the SGF does not comply, simply kill him after 2, 3 or 4 nights. That way a Savage will survive and be forced into killing town.

Somehow I am a magnet for night kills and host errors. I should totally be a Citizen.

Somehow I am a magnet for night kills and host errors. I should totally be a Citizen.

[QUOTE=FM Buchwalter;340527]It was my first FM so I'm still green behind the ears, but I do not feel like I made any slips apart from the whole Soma fiasco.[/QUOTE]
I had my eyes on you as you deemed my "gag" important enough to include in your notable happenings. But you didn't do anything more to feed my suspicion in that case.

Originally Posted by FM Buchwalter

It was my first FM so I'm still green behind the ears, but I do not feel like I made any slips apart from the whole Soma fiasco.

I had my eyes on you as you deemed my "gag" important enough to include in your notable happenings. But you didn't do anything more to feed my suspicion in that case.

Joker marks target. Mafia kills it. Joker kills 2 more guys.

BD B swaps himself with A. Escort blocks A. Vigilante shoots A. What happens?

Next I will think of a fun scenario involving Witch, BD and Escort.

Can Witch cause self targets? Can Witch self target? Say Witch W targets W to visit A. Does that mean Witch witches herself to make A visit A?

If the former is true, what about this?
Bus Driver B switches W with B. Witch W targets Bus Driver B to target W. Vigilante shoots W what happens?
Step 1: B and W are switched. So Witch makes W target B.
Step 2: Witch witches herself onto B, so B will target B.
Step 3: Bus Driver is made to switch B with B, effectively Bus Driving nobody.
Step 4: The no switch affects the witching. Witch will now force the Bus Driver to switch W with B again.
Step 5: Everything from step 1 all over again. But where to break the loop?

Witch W makes Escort E to target W. Escort wants to block A. Who will get blocked?

Joker marks target. Mafia kills it. Joker kills 2 more guys.

BD B swaps himself with A. Escort blocks A. Vigilante shoots A. What happens?

Next I will think of a fun scenario involving Witch, BD and Escort.

Can Witch cause self targets? Can Witch self target? Say Witch W targets W to visit A. Does that mean Witch witches herself to make A visit A?

If the former is true, what about this?
Bus Driver B switches W with B. Witch W targets Bus Driver B to target W. Vigilante shoots W what happens?
Step 1: B and W are switched. So Witch makes W target B.
Step 2: Witch witches herself onto B, so B will target B.
Step 3: Bus Driver is made to switch B with B, effectively Bus Driving nobody.
Step 4: The no switch affects the witching. Witch will now force the Bus Driver to switch W with B again.
Step 5: Everything from step 1 all over again. But where to break the loop?

Witch W makes Escort E to target W. Escort wants to block A. Who will get blocked?

[QUOTE=Creedkingsx;320947]*afk for 2 minutes*
*comeback dead*
dafuq[/QUOTE]
Where is the problem with that?
After some time ppl won't go afk anymore.

Originally Posted by Creedkingsx

*afk for 2 minutes*
*comeback dead*
dafuq

Where is the problem with that?
After some time ppl won't go afk anymore.

And now for a replay on the importance of Citizens! Who needs investigative roles to find the Mafia? Scum slips and voting patterns are all you need.

And now for a replay on the importance of Citizens! Who needs investigative roles to find the Mafia? Scum slips and voting patterns are all you need.

[QUOTE=ypmagic;315752]So I thought that putting stuff afterwards affected the ones before it. But Doctor does... doesn't it? I moved it anyways.[/QUOTE]
The Doctor can nurse ppl back from the (near) dead. And no, the Doctor doesn't affect the ones before him. In the example given the Vigilante doesn't get back his night action despite being healed.
You normally put the Doctor right after the kills so that actions that happen after kills can go through if the player is attacked and healed. That is also the reason why all kills normally happen at the same time.

Originally Posted by ypmagic

So I thought that putting stuff afterwards affected the ones before it. But Doctor does... doesn't it? I moved it anyways.

The Doctor can nurse ppl back from the (near) dead. And no, the Doctor doesn't affect the ones before him. In the example given the Vigilante doesn't get back his night action despite being healed.
You normally put the Doctor right after the kills so that actions that happen after kills can go through if the player is attacked and healed. That is also the reason why all kills normally happen at the same time.

[QUOTE=ika;315606]if that is what to happen. then that is to what happen. if he feels inclined to change it then let him. i think the OoO is fine. it ould use some working but overall it should be fine.[/QUOTE]
If I thought it was intended to work that way, I wouldn't have commented. But ypmagic said this:
[QUOTE=ypmagic;315592]Venus is able to roleblock anyone.[/QUOTE]
And what I got from this is that Venus is actually able to block everbody. But as it is now, Venus isn't and I explained why so that he can fix it if he wants to.

Originally Posted by ika

if that is what to happen. then that is to what happen. if he feels inclined to change it then let him. i think the OoO is fine. it ould use some working but overall it should be fine.

If I thought it was intended to work that way, I wouldn't have commented. But ypmagic said this:

Originally Posted by ypmagic

Venus is able to roleblock anyone.

And what I got from this is that Venus is actually able to block everbody. But as it is now, Venus isn't and I explained why so that he can fix it if he wants to.

Are you planning to change the roles list from an open roles list (all roles are revealed) to a closed roles list ( some if not all roles are hidden)? If not what is the point of investigation pairings with roles that are not in the game? The Escort for example shares an investigation pairings with Consort and Janitor. But as Consort and Janitor aren't in the game, the message is unique to the Escort. If the Investigator's purpose is to confirm himself to not be the Traitor by revealing role information that should not be available to a non-Investigator, then detecting exact roles is fine. And as I understand it Traitor is an alignment. As such the Investigator would see a Traitor Citizen as the same as any other Citizen.

Now to the Order of Operation: It seems to me that you are not familiar with the workings of an OoO. So let me explain. The Order of Operation shows the Order in which roles act. Let's take a look at yours.
0. Night Chat opens
1. Citizen use vests
2. Bus Driver swaps two people
3. Blacksmith gives item
4. Traitor kills
5. Vigilante kills
6. Escort roleblocks
7. Doctor heals
So at first the Citizens use their vests. After that the Bus Driver switches the position of two players redirecting all further actions that target those players. Next the Blacksmith hands out an item (your list says he can hand out vests and guns, but the role card speaks of vests only) and his target will receive it. Then the Traitor will kill his target. That means that he is affected by the Bus Driver switch and if he kills the Blacksmith, then the Blacksmith item will already be in the hands of the chosen target. On the other hand if the Traitor targets the Vigilante and vice versa, only the Vigilante will die as he will be shot dead before he gets to shoot. And only after the Vigilante fired his shot will the Escort go and visit somebody in an attempt to roleblock them. That means that the Escort can't roleblock the Bus Driver/Blacksmith/Traitor/Vigilante as all of those have already performed their night action. They will only receive the feedback message but their actions went through regardless. Only the Doctor who comes after the Escort can be prevented from taking his action.
Now an example to illustrate the workings: The Traitor targets the Vigilante. The Vigilante targets the Escort. The Escort targets the Traitor. The Doctor targets the Vigilante.
Result: Traitor goes first killing the Vigilante. Then it would be the turn of the Vigilante to kill the Escort, but as the Vigilante is dead at the moment nothing happens. Then the Escort goes visiting the Traitor, leaving him a message of a night of fun, but that didn't prevent him from killing the Vigilante. At last the Doctor visits the Vigilante and nurses him back from the dead. Nobody died.

Are you planning to change the roles list from an open roles list (all roles are revealed) to a closed roles list ( some if not all roles are hidden)? If not what is the point of investigation pairings with roles that are not in the game? The Escort for example shares an investigation pairings with Consort and Janitor. But as Consort and Janitor aren't in the game, the message is unique to the Escort. If the Investigator's purpose is to confirm himself to not be the Traitor by revealing role information that should not be available to a non-Investigator, then detecting exact roles is fine. And as I understand it Traitor is an alignment. As such the Investigator would see a Traitor Citizen as the same as any other Citizen.

Now to the Order of Operation: It seems to me that you are not familiar with the workings of an OoO. So let me explain. The Order of Operation shows the Order in which roles act. Let's take a look at yours.
0. Night Chat opens
1. Citizen use vests
2. Bus Driver swaps two people
3. Blacksmith gives item
4. Traitor kills
5. Vigilante kills
6. Escort roleblocks
7. Doctor heals
So at first the Citizens use their vests. After that the Bus Driver switches the position of two players redirecting all further actions that target those players. Next the Blacksmith hands out an item (your list says he can hand out vests and guns, but the role card speaks of vests only) and his target will receive it. Then the Traitor will kill his target. That means that he is affected by the Bus Driver switch and if he kills the Blacksmith, then the Blacksmith item will already be in the hands of the chosen target. On the other hand if the Traitor targets the Vigilante and vice versa, only the Vigilante will die as he will be shot dead before he gets to shoot. And only after the Vigilante fired his shot will the Escort go and visit somebody in an attempt to roleblock them. That means that the Escort can't roleblock the Bus Driver/Blacksmith/Traitor/Vigilante as all of those have already performed their night action. They will only receive the feedback message but their actions went through regardless. Only the Doctor who comes after the Escort can be prevented from taking his action.
Now an example to illustrate the workings: The Traitor targets the Vigilante. The Vigilante targets the Escort. The Escort targets the Traitor. The Doctor targets the Vigilante.
Result: Traitor goes first killing the Vigilante. Then it would be the turn of the Vigilante to kill the Escort, but as the Vigilante is dead at the moment nothing happens. Then the Escort goes visiting the Traitor, leaving him a message of a night of fun, but that didn't prevent him from killing the Vigilante. At last the Doctor visits the Vigilante and nurses him back from the dead. Nobody died.

Is there any special mechanic for the Accomplice to find the Traitor? Or is the Accomplice's victory condition actually "(Survive to the end and?) See the Olymians lose". This implies that the Accomplice has to make sure that the Traitor survives.

You didn't really answer my question about the roleblocks. But from what you answered to my question about roleblocking I take it that only the Doctor can be roleblocked. So the Escort is actually only able to confirm to another player that he is indeed not the Traitor and maybe prevent the Doctor from healing somebody.

I don't get how you come to the Sheriff conclusion when answering the Investigator question. I thought the Investigator detects the role and not the alignment. So if the Bus Driver is the Traitor and the Escort is the Accomplice, the Investigator would receive Bus Driver and Escort respectively. But if that is NOT the case I'd like to see the investigation pairings as there is no standard pairings for the selection of your roles.

About the last question: How can a Bus Driver cause mayhem to the Town? As he can't drive anymore (because he is the Traitor) nobody will be getting any bus driven feedback. This will easily reveal the Bus Driver as the Traitor. On the other hand if there is any bus driven feedback everybody knows that the Bus Driver is NOT the Traitor. Same is true for all feedback giving roles (the ones I listed). Or am I misunderstanding something?

Is there any special mechanic for the Accomplice to find the Traitor? Or is the Accomplice's victory condition actually "(Survive to the end and?) See the Olymians lose". This implies that the Accomplice has to make sure that the Traitor survives.

You didn't really answer my question about the roleblocks. But from what you answered to my question about roleblocking I take it that only the Doctor can be roleblocked. So the Escort is actually only able to confirm to another player that he is indeed not the Traitor and maybe prevent the Doctor from healing somebody.

I don't get how you come to the Sheriff conclusion when answering the Investigator question. I thought the Investigator detects the role and not the alignment. So if the Bus Driver is the Traitor and the Escort is the Accomplice, the Investigator would receive Bus Driver and Escort respectively. But if that is NOT the case I'd like to see the investigation pairings as there is no standard pairings for the selection of your roles.

About the last question: How can a Bus Driver cause mayhem to the Town? As he can't drive anymore (because he is the Traitor) nobody will be getting any bus driven feedback. This will easily reveal the Bus Driver as the Traitor. On the other hand if there is any bus driven feedback everybody knows that the Bus Driver is NOT the Traitor. Same is true for all feedback giving roles (the ones I listed). Or am I misunderstanding something?

What's this business with the Accomplice having to find the Traitor?

Roleblocking has no effect whatsoever except for notifying the target of being roleblocked as all other night actions are already resolved when the time to roleblock comes except for blocking heals. Intended? I think #1 is the place where the roleblock is intended to take place.

Is everything not mentioned sc2mafia standard? I.e. graveyard information/last wills/feedback messages

Will the Crier have a separate account to talk at night?

Will a Traitor Mayor/Crier retain their special ability (revealing/talking at night)?

Is the Traitor only able to kill or does he/she retain his/her role's ability and can use his/her roman form's night action? If it's the latter, can both night actions be used the same night?

Why is there a need for investigation pairings? Doesn't the Investigator just detect the exact role with the Traitor being the role before his/her treason?

If the Traitor can only kill, the game will come down to citizen lynching and night action confirmation. Bus Driver/Blacksmith/Escort/Mayor/Crier would be instantly confirmed to not be the Traitor while the Investigator and the Vigilante have the chance to do the same.

What's this business with the Accomplice having to find the Traitor?

Roleblocking has no effect whatsoever except for notifying the target of being roleblocked as all other night actions are already resolved when the time to roleblock comes except for blocking heals. Intended? I think #1 is the place where the roleblock is intended to take place.

Is everything not mentioned sc2mafia standard? I.e. graveyard information/last wills/feedback messages

Will the Crier have a separate account to talk at night?

Will a Traitor Mayor/Crier retain their special ability (revealing/talking at night)?

Is the Traitor only able to kill or does he/she retain his/her role's ability and can use his/her roman form's night action? If it's the latter, can both night actions be used the same night?

Why is there a need for investigation pairings? Doesn't the Investigator just detect the exact role with the Traitor being the role before his/her treason?

If the Traitor can only kill, the game will come down to citizen lynching and night action confirmation. Bus Driver/Blacksmith/Escort/Mayor/Crier would be instantly confirmed to not be the Traitor while the Investigator and the Vigilante have the chance to do the same.

A Mayor revealing day 1 to collect claims day. The claims of the Mafia and the conversations with the Mayor made them gain his trust. I think that I played good this game, but I think that the Janitor made the play of the game by feeding the afk GF to the Mayor to gain his trust. At the end the decision between SK and Mafia came down to some honesty treatment.
So if you can submit games for other players, then I think that Superliminal, the Janitor, deserves a chance to win this. :)

A Mayor revealing day 1 to collect claims day. The claims of the Mafia and the conversations with the Mayor made them gain his trust. I think that I played good this game, but I think that the Janitor made the play of the game by feeding the afk GF to the Mayor to gain his trust. At the end the decision between SK and Mafia came down to some honesty treatment.
So if you can submit games for other players, then I think that Superliminal, the Janitor, deserves a chance to win this.

[QUOTE=Azuriae;314268]You haven't played with a Ventriloquist, have you?
I have a profound hatred for this role. :v[/QUOTE]
I have in FMXIII. But I guess the Ventriloquist you are talking about is something different.

Originally Posted by Azuriae

You haven't played with a Ventriloquist, have you?
I have a profound hatred for this role. :v

I have in FMXIII. But I guess the Ventriloquist you are talking about is something different.

Woah, I sure don't want to be the Player getting possessed. Knowing that I won't be participating in that day chat but have a night action... sucks... especially if you are an investigative role. Might as well afk for the rest of the game.

Well, if you are Mafia/Cult you'll at least have your night chat. That would be k. But as town...

Is the change due to technical limitations?
I liked the former iteration much better.

Woah, I sure don't want to be the Player getting possessed. Knowing that I won't be participating in that day chat but have a night action... sucks... especially if you are an investigative role. Might as well afk for the rest of the game.

Well, if you are Mafia/Cult you'll at least have your night chat. That would be k. But as town...

Is the change due to technical limitations?
I liked the former iteration much better.

Ghost: It's more than just semantics.
Scenario:
Ghost gets killed by Town. After some long and painful effort, the Ghost manages to make the Town lose and the Cult wins the game. The Ghost player rejoices until he realizes that he lost. A Citizen with a Gunsmith gun shot him to death. Said Citizen was later converted to the Cult and won the game. The same is true if an Epsilon kills him and gets converted.

If it is really the Killer that has to lose in order for the Ghost to win, then the Ghost should be updated about any changes of alignment/faction.
Another solution could be collective guilt and it doesn't matter if the Killer gets converted. The ghost will have to see the faction that killed him lose. A culted Epsilon is an auto-win, though.

Does the Ghost get to see all PMs (night actions/feedback/talk with host) of his possessed target, or will they be deleted before and restored after the possession? If it's the first one, can the Ghost delete those PMs to destroy evidence before the original player gets to read them?

Ghost: It's more than just semantics.
Scenario:
Ghost gets killed by Town. After some long and painful effort, the Ghost manages to make the Town lose and the Cult wins the game. The Ghost player rejoices until he realizes that he lost. A Citizen with a Gunsmith gun shot him to death. Said Citizen was later converted to the Cult and won the game. The same is true if an Epsilon kills him and gets converted.

If it is really the Killer that has to lose in order for the Ghost to win, then the Ghost should be updated about any changes of alignment/faction.
Another solution could be collective guilt and it doesn't matter if the Killer gets converted. The ghost will have to see the faction that killed him lose. A culted Epsilon is an auto-win, though.

Does the Ghost get to see all PMs (night actions/feedback/talk with host) of his possessed target, or will they be deleted before and restored after the possession? If it's the first one, can the Ghost delete those PMs to destroy evidence before the original player gets to read them?

Time for some updates:

#107: The Bodyguard shouldn't be dueling the Interceptor. The Interceptor did not attack A. Because of the changes to the OoO, the whole question has become obsolete. Might as well remove it to not clutter up the FAQ. On the other hand there are quite a lot of other questions that could be removed.

#123: The Doctor is Jesus? He can bring back the dead.

The question about #75&#84 in my post #23 was not addressed.

Update Bodyguard role card to reflect recent changes: "[...] duel each and every attacker. [...]"

Being killed prevents your night action if it comes after #20. Does the Doctor heal (if you survive) give you back the opportunity to take your night action? Afaik this is not the case for Doctors being attacked. What about other roles coming later in the OoO? Will an attacked and healed Bodyguard still redirect a douse onto himself?

What happens if two Bodyguards target each other and one of them is attacked?

Will a jailee be notified about being attacked?

Update #81 on the effect of burning, whether it is prevented or not?

May the Arsonist burn by sending a PM after the day thread is locked, but before the night begins? What if he sends in the PM before the thread is locked, but the hammer vote is cast before the second half of the day starts?

Change Ghost to make its goal to see its killer lose? This is consistent with seeing the killer's faction lose in most of the cases. Otherwise the win condition would instantly become impossible if an epsilon kills the ghost as all epsilons would have to lose, ghost included, for the ghost to win. I also think it fits the revenge theme of the role better. And instead of revealing the faction and name of the killer, how about just including the role of the killer? And maybe inform the ghost about changes of the role (Student/Amnesiac/Culting).

Have the hosts reached a conclusion on the workings of the Framer?

A suggestion to fix the issue of Student having two chances to win and therefore possibly game-throwing the first time would be to make the Student instantly adopt the role of the Mentor in case it is a Jester, Executioner or Ghost. They probably don't have much to teach him anyway. Student as a Mentor is not a problem as long as the Student automatically adoptes the Mentor's Mentor should his Mentor die. The Survivor solution for Students taking each other as Mentor seems fine.

Time for some updates:

#107: The Bodyguard shouldn't be dueling the Interceptor. The Interceptor did not attack A. Because of the changes to the OoO, the whole question has become obsolete. Might as well remove it to not clutter up the FAQ. On the other hand there are quite a lot of other questions that could be removed.

#123: The Doctor is Jesus? He can bring back the dead.

The question about #75T in my post #23 was not addressed.

Update Bodyguard role card to reflect recent changes: "[...] duel each and every attacker. [...]"

Being killed prevents your night action if it comes after #20. Does the Doctor heal (if you survive) give you back the opportunity to take your night action? Afaik this is not the case for Doctors being attacked. What about other roles coming later in the OoO? Will an attacked and healed Bodyguard still redirect a douse onto himself?

What happens if two Bodyguards target each other and one of them is attacked?

Will a jailee be notified about being attacked?

Update #81 on the effect of burning, whether it is prevented or not?

May the Arsonist burn by sending a PM after the day thread is locked, but before the night begins? What if he sends in the PM before the thread is locked, but the hammer vote is cast before the second half of the day starts?

Change Ghost to make its goal to see its killer lose? This is consistent with seeing the killer's faction lose in most of the cases. Otherwise the win condition would instantly become impossible if an epsilon kills the ghost as all epsilons would have to lose, ghost included, for the ghost to win. I also think it fits the revenge theme of the role better. And instead of revealing the faction and name of the killer, how about just including the role of the killer? And maybe inform the ghost about changes of the role (Student/Amnesiac/Culting).

Have the hosts reached a conclusion on the workings of the Framer?

A suggestion to fix the issue of Student having two chances to win and therefore possibly game-throwing the first time would be to make the Student instantly adopt the role of the Mentor in case it is a Jester, Executioner or Ghost. They probably don't have much to teach him anyway. Student as a Mentor is not a problem as long as the Student automatically adoptes the Mentor's Mentor should his Mentor die. The Survivor solution for Students taking each other as Mentor seems fine.

Will you limit the bus driving feedback to one? I don't think it's needed anymore with the Jester.

Will you limit the bus driving feedback to one? I don't think it's needed anymore with the Jester.

Just put the Jester drugging on top of the OoO and he will naturally ignore bus driving redirections.

Just put the Jester drugging on top of the OoO and he will naturally ignore bus driving redirections.

[QUOTE=ika;313321]i was considering doing a reroll of this game due to the fact it ended so fast but this time have it start day 1 with lynch. would also consider changing the feedback to one bus driven reagardless of how many bus drivers drove the person[/QUOTE]
It doesn't fix the problem of a Lookout finding an Arsonist based on the feedback of his target. Starting at day help town even more as they can gathers claims before night feedback is available. And I believe that the Arsonists have to claim based on their feedback. Limiting the bus driven feedback to one definitely helps the Arsonists, but it would take out the fun of solving the puzzle in which order the bus drivers go and whose claims conflict with one another.

Originally Posted by ika

i was considering doing a reroll of this game due to the fact it ended so fast but this time have it start day 1 with lynch. would also consider changing the feedback to one bus driven reagardless of how many bus drivers drove the person

It doesn't fix the problem of a Lookout finding an Arsonist based on the feedback of his target. Starting at day help town even more as they can gathers claims before night feedback is available. And I believe that the Arsonists have to claim based on their feedback. Limiting the bus driven feedback to one definitely helps the Arsonists, but it would take out the fun of solving the puzzle in which order the bus drivers go and whose claims conflict with one another.

[QUOTE=NoctiZ;313597]I wanted to side with Arsonist by claiming fake bus drivings or shit, but no such luck.[/QUOTE]

If I had been town I wouldn't have had a problem lynching you if I had caught you in a lie. Getting rid of the wild card is good enough if the Survivor doesn't side with town. And sadly town has enough leeway to lynch you first.
If it is your personal goal to make the Arsonists win, then that's fine. Though if you only care about winning, Town is the way to go.

Originally Posted by NoctiZ

I wanted to side with Arsonist by claiming fake bus drivings or shit, but no such luck.

If I had been town I wouldn't have had a problem lynching you if I had caught you in a lie. Getting rid of the wild card is good enough if the Survivor doesn't side with town. And sadly town has enough leeway to lynch you first.
If it is your personal goal to make the Arsonists win, then that's fine. Though if you only care about winning, Town is the way to go.

I was doomed the moment that ypmagic contradicted louiswill. If he had hidden as a normal Bus Driver I might have managed to make Bujeebus and Apache look like the Arsonists. As Apache had basically no information as he watched himself it might have been possible to pull it off. But there is no margin for error for the Arsonists to win. You must cause a mislynch. The mislynched target must not have been doused. Arsonists may not douses the same target. Arsonists may not douse the Survivor. Arsonists may not douse each other. Survivor has to side with the Arsonists.
When all of this works out, the Arsonists can win.

@powerofdeath: If you had not revealed your information instantly, you could have caught me in a lie. I would have claimed to watch somebody that probably nobody visited or where there information was already floating around. You wasted that opportunity and it was only due to ypmagic that it definitely revealed me. I think you didn't play that very good, thus no vote for you. The rest was basically acting on information exclusively confirmed to them. So there was no real feat achieved. ypmagic outed himself so there wasn't really a problem in finding him.

I was doomed the moment that ypmagic contradicted louiswill. If he had hidden as a normal Bus Driver I might have managed to make Bujeebus and Apache look like the Arsonists. As Apache had basically no information as he watched himself it might have been possible to pull it off. But there is no margin for error for the Arsonists to win. You must cause a mislynch. The mislynched target must not have been doused. Arsonists may not douses the same target. Arsonists may not douse the Survivor. Arsonists may not douse each other. Survivor has to side with the Arsonists.
When all of this works out, the Arsonists can win.

@powerofdeath: If you had not revealed your information instantly, you could have caught me in a lie. I would have claimed to watch somebody that probably nobody visited or where there information was already floating around. You wasted that opportunity and it was only due to ypmagic that it definitely revealed me. I think you didn't play that very good, thus no vote for you. The rest was basically acting on information exclusively confirmed to them. So there was no real feat achieved. ypmagic outed himself so there wasn't really a problem in finding him.

[COLOR="#FF0000"][b] -vote nobody for MVP [/b][/COLOR]

-vote nobody for MVP

[QUOTE=louiswill;313295]Btw, in sc2 busdriver's second visit seems wont appear on lookout's list. right?[/QUOTE]
Wrong, Lookouts can see the Bus Drivers second visit.

Well, I won't comment on your strategies... I think it's for the better.

[QUOTE=louiswill;313307]Think ypmagic's claim everything was countering my claim.

good thing you choose to trust me though. but, why?[/QUOTE]
ypmagic's claim was plain bad...

Originally Posted by louiswill

Btw, in sc2 busdriver's second visit seems wont appear on lookout's list. right?

Wrong, Lookouts can see the Bus Drivers second visit.

Well, I won't comment on your strategies... I think it's for the better.

Originally Posted by louiswill

Think ypmagic's claim everything was countering my claim.

good thing you choose to trust me though. but, why?

ypmagic's claim was plain bad...

Told you that Arsonists are screwed.
I think there shouldn't be any douse notifications. It's hard enough as it is.

Told you that Arsonists are screwed.
I think there shouldn't be any douse notifications. It's hard enough as it is.

[QUOTE=FM Game Master;313190]Unnumbered question: Refer to the kill list in Edit 1.20. Disguiser will take the person, as Mafia kills come before town, but if Arsonist burns him, he'll get there first, and the Disguiser will not disguise.[/QUOTE]
So if the Disguiser and the Vigilante hit the same target, would the Disguiser's former player name come up in the graveyard as killed by Soma Dealers and shot by the Vigilante? This would tell the Vigilante that either a Bus Driver was involved or his original target is now a Disguiser, which is much more likely seeing that the Disguiser's fake body was cleaned and shot by him.

Oh, and speaking about cleaning: Does cleaning hide all other death description?

And disguising is actually in the OoO. But I guess that part is only the cleaning and switching of the body, while the kill occures in #20.

And another one that I just noticed:
Can the Student gain two Mentors through the use of Soma? If yes, what are the implications? Can he gain both roles, if both of his Mentors die? What if the Mentors have different alignments? Can he win with both sides? Oh gawd, that would be awesome. Picture both Godfathers as Mentors. He would be like the evil raid boss the Town has to defeat.

Self-answer to an earlier question:
[quote]At what point in the OoO do attacked players enter the graveyard (negating any night action they planned to take later in the night)?[/quote]
I guess it is in between #21 Heals and #22 Autopsies. But no night action before that should be canceled by kills.

Does a Student with a Savage Mentor count towards the Cult limit?

Originally Posted by FM Game Master

Unnumbered question: Refer to the kill list in Edit 1.20. Disguiser will take the person, as Mafia kills come before town, but if Arsonist burns him, he'll get there first, and the Disguiser will not disguise.

So if the Disguiser and the Vigilante hit the same target, would the Disguiser's former player name come up in the graveyard as killed by Soma Dealers and shot by the Vigilante? This would tell the Vigilante that either a Bus Driver was involved or his original target is now a Disguiser, which is much more likely seeing that the Disguiser's fake body was cleaned and shot by him.

Oh, and speaking about cleaning: Does cleaning hide all other death description?

And disguising is actually in the OoO. But I guess that part is only the cleaning and switching of the body, while the kill occures in #20.

And another one that I just noticed:
Can the Student gain two Mentors through the use of Soma? If yes, what are the implications? Can he gain both roles, if both of his Mentors die? What if the Mentors have different alignments? Can he win with both sides? Oh gawd, that would be awesome. Picture both Godfathers as Mentors. He would be like the evil raid boss the Town has to defeat.

Self-answer to an earlier question:

At what point in the OoO do attacked players enter the graveyard (negating any night action they planned to take later in the night)?

I guess it is in between #21 Heals and #22 Autopsies. But no night action before that should be canceled by kills.

Does a Student with a Savage Mentor count towards the Cult limit?

le me is confused.

#107: I was under the impression that all kills happen at the same time. So how is the Bus Driver dead the moment he switches A? Shouldn't he simply be flagged attacked in order to get killed during step 20 (all kills)? And why does Escort visit A? Does Interceptor prevent the night actions of other roles by killing them? What if a Doctor had targeted A or B? Why isn't the Bodyguard dueling the Interceptor who attacked the Bus Driver? And what would happen if we drop the Interceptor and the Bodyguard from that scenario?

Maybe a helpful question to break down the scenario above: At what point in the OoO do attacked players enter the graveyard (negating any night action they planned to take later in the night)? You might rethink the positioning of the Doctor in the OoO

#102/104. Student: Neutral Madness - what are the implications?
Does the Student definitely lose if his Jester/Executioner Mentor dies or does he have a chance to win after he assumes his Mentor's role?
It seems to me that the Student only has to see his Mentor win so long as he is still a (dead or alive) Student. The answer to this might impact #103/105.

There are so many more things I could ask about Students and Ghosts. Not sure if I should...

What happens if a Disguiser and a Vigilante target the same person? Is it any different if somebody coming earlier in the kill order hits the same target as the Disguiser?

#87: What if the Architect bursts into flames? As long as he is in an Architect night chat he would survive according to setup. This was what my question was originally aimed at. I guess I should have stated that more clearly.

Is the alignment shown in the graveyard (Savage/Student)?

le me is confused.

#107: I was under the impression that all kills happen at the same time. So how is the Bus Driver dead the moment he switches A? Shouldn't he simply be flagged attacked in order to get killed during step 20 (all kills)? And why does Escort visit A? Does Interceptor prevent the night actions of other roles by killing them? What if a Doctor had targeted A or B? Why isn't the Bodyguard dueling the Interceptor who attacked the Bus Driver? And what would happen if we drop the Interceptor and the Bodyguard from that scenario?

Maybe a helpful question to break down the scenario above: At what point in the OoO do attacked players enter the graveyard (negating any night action they planned to take later in the night)? You might rethink the positioning of the Doctor in the OoO

#102/104. Student: Neutral Madness - what are the implications?
Does the Student definitely lose if his Jester/Executioner Mentor dies or does he have a chance to win after he assumes his Mentor's role?
It seems to me that the Student only has to see his Mentor win so long as he is still a (dead or alive) Student. The answer to this might impact #103/105.

There are so many more things I could ask about Students and Ghosts. Not sure if I should...

What happens if a Disguiser and a Vigilante target the same person? Is it any different if somebody coming earlier in the kill order hits the same target as the Disguiser?

#87: What if the Architect bursts into flames? As long as he is in an Architect night chat he would survive according to setup. This was what my question was originally aimed at. I guess I should have stated that more clearly.

Is the alignment shown in the graveyard (Savage/Student)?

Clarification on #79: what happens when two jailors jail the same target?

[s]Where does the poisioner night action fall in #76? I take it that one night later it falls into the soma dealer kills (cuz it's just a regular kill). But the night before that isn't clear.[/s]
Answered by Edit 1.20 (according to OoO, meaning before #20 (all kills)). The act of poisoning is missing (before culting) in the order of prevention of effects though. And I think adding Spree Killer and Interceptor at the top of the list would be good for clarity, too.

Jailor executions typically cannot be healed. Maybe reword it to kill as it clearly can be healed? (see Edit 1.20)
This isn't much of a problem as the setup is clear on that point. I just think it will confuse many players.

#75 & #84 - I asked those because their feedback message involves a single target/visitor. So I thought they would get an individual feedback for each of the targets/visitors. Updating the feedback messages for Lookout/Detective for possible multiple targets/visitors would clear that up.

Does the Veteran get his feedback in one message or is it one message per visitor? If it is the former the message should be updated to reflect this.

Clarification on #79: what happens when two jailors jail the same target?

Where does the poisioner night action fall in #76? I take it that one night later it falls into the soma dealer kills (cuz it's just a regular kill). But the night before that isn't clear.
Answered by Edit 1.20 (according to OoO, meaning before #20 (all kills)). The act of poisoning is missing (before culting) in the order of prevention of effects though. And I think adding Spree Killer and Interceptor at the top of the list would be good for clarity, too.

Jailor executions typically cannot be healed. Maybe reword it to kill as it clearly can be healed? (see Edit 1.20)
This isn't much of a problem as the setup is clear on that point. I just think it will confuse many players.

#75 & #84 - I asked those because their feedback message involves a single target/visitor. So I thought they would get an individual feedback for each of the targets/visitors. Updating the feedback messages for Lookout/Detective for possible multiple targets/visitors would clear that up.

Does the Veteran get his feedback in one message or is it one message per visitor? If it is the former the message should be updated to reflect this.

I know that you are Town, Apache. But I don't get what you are doing right now. There is no possible strategy justifying what you are doing right now. Please come clear, so that we don't mislynch, we really can't afford it!

I know that you are Town, Apache. But I don't get what you are doing right now. There is no possible strategy justifying what you are doing right now. Please come clear, so that we don't mislynch, we really can't afford it!

Wait, what? Impossible, you can't be Lookout. Why are you claiming Lookout? Why do you want to get my lynch, despite knowing that I am town? I don't even know you. Just play according to your victory condition and stop lying.

Wait, what? Impossible, you can't be Lookout. Why are you claiming Lookout? Why do you want to get my lynch, despite knowing that I am town? I don't even know you. Just play according to your victory condition and stop lying.

Let me restate that I was doused. I was planing to keep it hidden, especially after powerofdeath and me visited the same target, so that theother Arsonist might douse me, too. But Bujeebus forced me to reveal it, as he is clearly lying about it.

Apache, I don't know for what screwed reason you trust Bujeebus, but he has to be one of the Arsonists. There are only two Lookouts, and those have been claimed by powerofdeath and me respectively. We are both confirmed town, so please, just claim your role, so we can lynch Bujeebus. It should be obvious by now that he is Arsonist.

Let me restate that I was doused. I was planing to keep it hidden, especially after powerofdeath and me visited the same target, so that theother Arsonist might douse me, too. But Bujeebus forced me to reveal it, as he is clearly lying about it.

Apache, I don't know for what screwed reason you trust Bujeebus, but he has to be one of the Arsonists. There are only two Lookouts, and those have been claimed by powerofdeath and me respectively. We are both confirmed town, so please, just claim your role, so we can lynch Bujeebus. It should be obvious by now that he is Arsonist.

Wow, this is incredible. Absolutely astonishing. Way to read only what you want to read. Apache is Bus Driver and he should clearly state so. powerofdeath and me are the only Lookouts. All Apache has to do is to claim his role and we can go on lynching Bujeebus. Easy as that only 2 Lookout claims - 100% town. I rest my case.

Wow, this is incredible. Absolutely astonishing. Way to read only what you want to read. Apache is Bus Driver and he should clearly state so. powerofdeath and me are the only Lookouts. All Apache has to do is to claim his role and we can go on lynching Bujeebus. Easy as that only 2 Lookout claims - 100% town. I rest my case.

[QUOTE=louiswill;312874]you are NOT lookout?[/QUOTE]
lol, that's what you get when you change your sentence in the middle of a train of thought. I [B]AM[/B] Lookout.

[QUOTE=louiswill;312873]1 liar between Phyr and Pod, if bujeebus is not arsonist.

1 liar between louiswill and YPmagic.[/QUOTE]
Finally we are agreeing on sth.

Why are you assuming that ppl are vague about their feedback? Why should they? If they are honest about it, we can sort through all this mess without a problem, because there can only be 2 liars. And those are easily spotted of everyone else is honest.

@Apache: plx claim your role, night action and feedback. It would help to make things clear.

Originally Posted by louiswill

you are NOT lookout?

lol, that's what you get when you change your sentence in the middle of a train of thought. I AM Lookout.

Originally Posted by louiswill

1 liar between Phyr and Pod, if bujeebus is not arsonist.

1 liar between louiswill and YPmagic.

Finally we are agreeing on sth.

Why are you assuming that ppl are vague about their feedback? Why should they? If they are honest about it, we can sort through all this mess without a problem, because there can only be 2 liars. And those are easily spotted of everyone else is honest.

@Apache: plx claim your role, night action and feedback. It would help to make things clear.

louiswill, I don't know if you play dumb or if you actually are... I am not Lookout, thus "from my view" only Bujeebus or powerofdeath can be Arsonist. Either because powerofdeath doused Bujeebus and Bujeebus was not lying but you are OR Bujeebus is lying about being doused and is actually Arsonist. The second case is much more likely [B]from my view[/B], thus 98/2.
I never contradicted myself. I have opposing statements with Bujeebus, but that is all.

louiswill, I don't know if you play dumb or if you actually are... I am not Lookout, thus "from my view" only Bujeebus or powerofdeath can be Arsonist. Either because powerofdeath doused Bujeebus and Bujeebus was not lying but you are OR Bujeebus is lying about being doused and is actually Arsonist. The second case is much more likely from my view, thus 98/2.
I never contradicted myself. I have opposing statements with Bujeebus, but that is all.

You logic about the driving is deeply flawed. If two bus drivers have onverlapping targets, one of their targets has to be driven twice! And not the overlapping one. Let's say Bus Driver B1 switches A and B and Bus Driver B2 switches B and C, then everybody has to have been driven at least once with only A or C being driven twice. This will also make it clear who comes first in the OoO (Order of Operations), which might help us in further nights, too.

And I say "From my view". I am Lookout, as such only powerofdeath and Bujeebus can be Arsonists. And it is extremely unlikely for powerofdeath to be Arsonist compared to Bujeebus, hence 98/2. You also say that it's too late to switch votes, which is complete bullshit. Only Bujeebus said that he wouldn't vote anymore, which doesn't matter at all as he is the one I want to lynch and his vote doesn't matter in that case.

Also I said everything I know: I am Lookout; powerofdeath visited Bujeebus; I was doused; I was bus driven once.
I just don't get why you trust Bujeebus so much. Sure, you don't have the degree of confirmed information I have (me being Lookout). But there are only 2 Lookouts and you just go and lynch one of them. I mean like wtf, do your really want to throw this game?

You logic about the driving is deeply flawed. If two bus drivers have onverlapping targets, one of their targets has to be driven twice! And not the overlapping one. Let's say Bus Driver B1 switches A and B and Bus Driver B2 switches B and C, then everybody has to have been driven at least once with only A or C being driven twice. This will also make it clear who comes first in the OoO (Order of Operations), which might help us in further nights, too.

And I say "From my view". I am Lookout, as such only powerofdeath and Bujeebus can be Arsonists. And it is extremely unlikely for powerofdeath to be Arsonist compared to Bujeebus, hence 98/2. You also say that it's too late to switch votes, which is complete bullshit. Only Bujeebus said that he wouldn't vote anymore, which doesn't matter at all as he is the one I want to lynch and his vote doesn't matter in that case.

Also I said everything I know: I am Lookout; powerofdeath visited Bujeebus; I was doused; I was bus driven once.
I just don't get why you trust Bujeebus so much. Sure, you don't have the degree of confirmed information I have (me being Lookout). But there are only 2 Lookouts and you just go and lynch one of them. I mean like wtf, do your really want to throw this game?

@Bujeebus: I didn't give any information/results with my claim because that was part of my plan... the information should have been given after everybody claimed their role. Besides it's super easy for you to put the blame on me: "Oh, two Lookouts visiting me. Let's claim doused and get one of them lynched. [I]hurrdurr[/I]"

@louiswill: I think your system doesn't help at all. But if you want to stick to it: I'm actually at -2 (+1-1-2). And ypmagic's result does [B]not[/B] contradict Bujeebus [B]and[/B] your claim. You logic about the burning doesn't work as well. The Arsonists aren't forced to ignite tonight. It's quite possible that they just keep dousing until they can ignite to win. Care to reveal your second switch target? And I will not switch my vote until I am sufficently convinced who between the two of you is the Arsonist.

As I view the situation, there is a 98% chance of Bujeebus being Arsonist, claiming doused after he saw that 2 Lookouts are visiting him. Remaining 2% go to powerofdeath with a super lucky result+claim. On the louiswill vs ypmagic front, I gotta give louiswill the edge. About 65/35 in favor of louiswill not being the Arsonist.

Updates while I typed this post: Whoa, stop it right there! Stop voting me. I know that both Arsonists are already voting me, but we haven't even heard all results and you trust Bujeebus just like that? You know that we can't afford to mislynch?

@Bujeebus: I didn't give any information/results with my claim because that was part of my plan... the information should have been given after everybody claimed their role. Besides it's super easy for you to put the blame on me: "Oh, two Lookouts visiting me. Let's claim doused and get one of them lynched. hurrdurr"

@louiswill: I think your system doesn't help at all. But if you want to stick to it: I'm actually at -2 (+1-1-2). And ypmagic's result does not contradict Bujeebus and your claim. You logic about the burning doesn't work as well. The Arsonists aren't forced to ignite tonight. It's quite possible that they just keep dousing until they can ignite to win. Care to reveal your second switch target? And I will not switch my vote until I am sufficently convinced who between the two of you is the Arsonist.

As I view the situation, there is a 98% chance of Bujeebus being Arsonist, claiming doused after he saw that 2 Lookouts are visiting him. Remaining 2% go to powerofdeath with a super lucky result+claim. On the louiswill vs ypmagic front, I gotta give louiswill the edge. About 65/35 in favor of louiswill not being the Arsonist.

Updates while I typed this post: Whoa, stop it right there! Stop voting me. I know that both Arsonists are already voting me, but we haven't even heard all results and you trust Bujeebus just like that? You know that we can't afford to mislynch?