August 9th, 2012, 10:00 PM
[quote]I find this to be entire point of the Escort when there is an SK and no Mafioso in a game; finding the GF.[/quote]
I disagree with that opinion. The escort can easily verify her role as an escort by targeting anyone that night. Thus they get confirmed as town or maifa. Role checking the graveyard usually proves they are a confirmed town very quickly.
So even in even they are used in a setup they can't role block evils, they still have value.
As the mechanics are arranged now, you may as well change the error message when you role block an immune person. "You tried to role block your target, but he was too busy killing people that night". Because that's how the error message reads to anyone with a brain.
I personally think it should be removed.
But i'd be happy with a option on the escorts/consorts that lets them be notified of role block immunities.
Since i want this mechanic changed, i'll compromise.
I've added a poll.
Please vote for a change.
I find this to be entire point of the Escort when there is an SK and no Mafioso in a game; finding the GF.
I disagree with that opinion. The escort can easily verify her role as an escort by targeting anyone that night. Thus they get confirmed as town or maifa. Role checking the graveyard usually proves they are a confirmed town very quickly.
So even in even they are used in a setup they can't role block evils, they still have value.
As the mechanics are arranged now, you may as well change the error message when you role block an immune person. "You tried to role block your target, but he was too busy killing people that night". Because that's how the error message reads to anyone with a brain.
I personally think it should be removed.
But i'd be happy with a option on the escorts/consorts that lets them be notified of role block immunities.
Since i want this mechanic changed, i'll compromise.
I've added a poll.
Please vote for a change.
August 9th, 2012, 06:21 AM
I've never understood why it was enabled in the first place.
It used to be that if you were an escort and you role blocked a godfather, you thought you succeeded.
Now when you role block a godfather, you get this huge message stating that they are immune to being roleblocked, which is just a huge screaming sign flagging the target as most likely the god father.
Now i don't understand why this mechanic was implemented. So if there was a reason why it was implemented, i'd love to know.
If there was no good reason, i suggest it either be removed, or made an option disabled by default.
Having just lost a game because an escort comes along and screws the godfather, only to find he's role block immune is not fun.
For me, the godfather is the mafia fail-safe, he won't die to a neutral, he won't be detected by fluke, he won't get role blocked into preforming zero kills. But when someone finds he's role block immune and it states as much, its just a matter of time till he's lynched. Which goes contrary to most peoples expectations and attempted host settings for the godfather.
I don't even know any other class that is role block immune, besides perhaps serial killer and arson, which are all equally evil and thus all the more reason to lynch anyone who is immune.
I've never understood why it was enabled in the first place.
It used to be that if you were an escort and you role blocked a godfather, you thought you succeeded.
Now when you role block a godfather, you get this huge message stating that they are immune to being roleblocked, which is just a huge screaming sign flagging the target as most likely the god father.
Now i don't understand why this mechanic was implemented. So if there was a reason why it was implemented, i'd love to know.
If there was no good reason, i suggest it either be removed, or made an option disabled by default.
Having just lost a game because an escort comes along and screws the godfather, only to find he's role block immune is not fun.
For me, the godfather is the mafia fail-safe, he won't die to a neutral, he won't be detected by fluke, he won't get role blocked into preforming zero kills. But when someone finds he's role block immune and it states as much, its just a matter of time till he's lynched. Which goes contrary to most peoples expectations and attempted host settings for the godfather.
I don't even know any other class that is role block immune, besides perhaps serial killer and arson, which are all equally evil and thus all the more reason to lynch anyone who is immune.
August 6th, 2012, 06:47 AM
Some of my worst games have been with this setting enabled on town.
Unbalances basic town roles too much.
Would be a lot better if it was removed, even if it is a fun setting to enable.
Some of my worst games have been with this setting enabled on town.
Unbalances basic town roles too much.
Would be a lot better if it was removed, even if it is a fun setting to enable.
April 22nd, 2012, 09:18 AM
I think the role is pretty weak, as well as being unreliable.
You normally can't tell when someone is going to get put on trial ahead of time with any reasonable accuracy.
What if the town decides to lynch a serial killer, arsonist, or other random lynch. The Politician will have revealed his role and wasted his abilities.
Thus his ability is of unreliable use to the maifa.
The biggest thing this class provides is an excuse for maifa players voting poorly, and its not a very good one at that.
Thus his role is pretty weak, compared to the other roles maifa could spawn with.
The role would have to be considerably buffed, and ideally be strong enough to be effective, even if the role was announced in the roles list.
The final point to add, what is there to stop town from lynching the same target over again?
I think the role is pretty weak, as well as being unreliable.
You normally can't tell when someone is going to get put on trial ahead of time with any reasonable accuracy.
What if the town decides to lynch a serial killer, arsonist, or other random lynch. The Politician will have revealed his role and wasted his abilities.
Thus his ability is of unreliable use to the maifa.
The biggest thing this class provides is an excuse for maifa players voting poorly, and its not a very good one at that.
Thus his role is pretty weak, compared to the other roles maifa could spawn with.
The role would have to be considerably buffed, and ideally be strong enough to be effective, even if the role was announced in the roles list.
The final point to add, what is there to stop town from lynching the same target over again?
April 22nd, 2012, 07:25 AM
Try to keep up with the chat, don't cheat and flip perspectives to see whats going on, and watch it from Bazar's perspective.
Of all the maifa games i've ever played, this replay is the most unforgettable of them all.
Hope you enjoy it.
Try to keep up with the chat, don't cheat and flip perspectives to see whats going on, and watch it from Bazar's perspective.
Of all the maifa games i've ever played, this replay is the most unforgettable of them all.
Hope you enjoy it.
March 21st, 2012, 05:16 AM
[b]Account Name:[/b] Dman
[b]Account ID:[/b] 1-s2-1-1239543
[b]In-Game Name:[/b] Smelly Goat
[b]Crimes Committed:[/b] Game-Throwing, Griefing
[b]Your Account Name:[/b] Bazar
[b]Summary:[/b] Trolled hard in the game lobby calling everyone a faggot. A
t game start, he landed as a godfather. He spent day 2, and day 3, announcing who his maifa buddies were, pretending to be a sheriff.
While he might be trying to play an inside game, hes really just an arsehole, he went as far as to put it in his last will who his members were, and that he was Dman.
Screenshots and replay included.
On a completely unrelated note, have i ever been reported for cheating or whatever?
I've always wondered, i've had at least 3 people basicly swear they were going to report me for cheating, skyping, gamethrowing, and so forth, i'm wondering if they ever bothered?
Account Name: Dman
Account ID: 1-s2-1-1239543
In-Game Name: Smelly Goat
Crimes Committed: Game-Throwing, Griefing
Your Account Name: Bazar
Summary: Trolled hard in the game lobby calling everyone a faggot. A
t game start, he landed as a godfather. He spent day 2, and day 3, announcing who his maifa buddies were, pretending to be a sheriff.
While he might be trying to play an inside game, hes really just an arsehole, he went as far as to put it in his last will who his members were, and that he was Dman.
Screenshots and replay included.
On a completely unrelated note, have i ever been reported for cheating or whatever?
I've always wondered, i've had at least 3 people basicly swear they were going to report me for cheating, skyping, gamethrowing, and so forth, i'm wondering if they ever bothered?
March 21st, 2012, 12:56 AM
I picked up donor knowing that i'd be singled out.
To be honest i find it amusing, yes i get killed a lot more first night.
But when i'm not killed first night, the games are so much more interesting.
You can also ask for a doctor, bg, lookout, or jailor to visit you first night. It can scare the maifa away from hitting you when they may take damage as a result.
I picked up donor knowing that i'd be singled out.
To be honest i find it amusing, yes i get killed a lot more first night.
But when i'm not killed first night, the games are so much more interesting.
You can also ask for a doctor, bg, lookout, or jailor to visit you first night. It can scare the maifa away from hitting you when they may take damage as a result.
March 17th, 2012, 04:55 AM
I used to enjoy the thrill of playing as a Donor, the coloured name made games that much more interesting for me.
So its with alarm that i've lost that functionality.
I used to enjoy the thrill of playing as a Donor, the coloured name made games that much more interesting for me.
So its with alarm that i've lost that functionality.
March 3rd, 2012, 09:12 PM
The problem is quite simply.
There isn't any other roll that has the same power as the SK.
The arsonist more often then not, dies before burning anyone. And if they do burn anyone, its usually only up to 3 people.
Comparing an SK to the arsonist, the SK affects the town from his first kill, and kills every night.
The arsonist takes longer to kill people, requring n+1 nights to kill targets, and doused targets can be killed by other methods, increasing the overlap in killings.
Honestly, i think the arsonist needs a huge buff to make it comparable to the SK.
I'd honestly say 1 sk is as powerful as 2 arsonists.
Which does give me an idea. Next hosting, i think i'll do just that, remove any killers and add 2 mortal arsonists.
The problem is quite simply.
There isn't any other roll that has the same power as the SK.
The arsonist more often then not, dies before burning anyone. And if they do burn anyone, its usually only up to 3 people.
Comparing an SK to the arsonist, the SK affects the town from his first kill, and kills every night.
The arsonist takes longer to kill people, requring n+1 nights to kill targets, and doused targets can be killed by other methods, increasing the overlap in killings.
Honestly, i think the arsonist needs a huge buff to make it comparable to the SK.
I'd honestly say 1 sk is as powerful as 2 arsonists.
Which does give me an idea. Next hosting, i think i'll do just that, remove any killers and add 2 mortal arsonists.
March 2nd, 2012, 07:46 PM
[QUOTE=Yayap;93554]And do you have any suggestions to fix this issue? Based on your "bug report" I would simply change the "Janitor" role name to "Maid". That would fix all the concerns you have about the janitor being a manly roll. =)[/QUOTE]
The bug report was simply a little humour for what would otherwise be a dull bug report.
Still, maid or otherwise, its just outright odd for a janitor to clean up after themselves. It makes no sense.
Originally Posted by
Yayap
And do you have any suggestions to fix this issue? Based on your "bug report" I would simply change the "Janitor" role name to "Maid". That would fix all the concerns you have about the janitor being a manly roll. =)
The bug report was simply a little humour for what would otherwise be a dull bug report.
Still, maid or otherwise, its just outright odd for a janitor to clean up after themselves. It makes no sense.
March 2nd, 2012, 02:21 AM
I just played a game, where due to a bus driver, the Mafia whacked one of their own, and sanitized it as well thanks to the janitor.
That's right, the janitor, after being killed, cleaned himself up, and tucked all his belongings and parts away.
This just will not stand, the janitor is a manly roll, and all men cannot clean up after themselves. That's why (or one of the reasons) we get married.
I just played a game, where due to a bus driver, the Mafia whacked one of their own, and sanitized it as well thanks to the janitor.
That's right, the janitor, after being killed, cleaned himself up, and tucked all his belongings and parts away.
This just will not stand, the janitor is a manly roll, and all men cannot clean up after themselves. That's why (or one of the reasons) we get married.
February 29th, 2012, 05:20 AM
[QUOTE=MintBerry Crunch;91029]Why can't he be a defending attorney, prosecution is for not nice people.
The 99% should be able to take shits on the ground and have drum circles at night (night chat)
also *Role*[/QUOTE]
He basicly is a defence attorney. Since he wins by defending his clients.
Its somewhat a reverse mayor
Originally Posted by
MintBerry Crunch
Why can't he be a defending attorney, prosecution is for not nice people.
The 99% should be able to take shits on the ground and have drum circles at night (night chat)
also *Role*
He basicly is a defence attorney. Since he wins by defending his clients.
Its somewhat a reverse mayor
February 26th, 2012, 06:39 AM
Bleh, only wanted to make a joke, after finding out how the protest movement in Auckland, NZ cost about $360k ($300k usd) to clean up after they left (evicted).
The 99% protesters
This is a town role
Abilities: None
Special features: During the day, they can only talk about how rich the masons are, how biased the lynch system is for all the other classes, and how they never win anything.
Able to talk to other protesters during the night
Win conditions: None, the protesters are unable to win.
The Lawyer
This is a netural role
Abilities: Able to nullify up to 3 voters of their voting powers during trial.
Special features: The lawyer will be assigned a client randomly during the first few trials. The client must not be found guilty for the duration of the game.
The client and lawyer are unable to be jailed. The lawyer automatically gets his client out of trail, and put into protective custody during the first night, which is a roleblock on his client.
The next day after discussion, the trial of his client will be resumed, the lawyer will instead defend the client, and votes will be made anon to all parties other then the client and lawyer.
Win conditions: Assigned clients must not be found guilty.
Loss conditions: No assigned clients survive, or all clients found guilty.
Bleh, only wanted to make a joke, after finding out how the protest movement in Auckland, NZ cost about $360k ($300k usd) to clean up after they left (evicted).
The 99% protesters
This is a town role
Abilities: None
Special features: During the day, they can only talk about how rich the masons are, how biased the lynch system is for all the other classes, and how they never win anything.
Able to talk to other protesters during the night
Win conditions: None, the protesters are unable to win.
The Lawyer
This is a netural role
Abilities: Able to nullify up to 3 voters of their voting powers during trial.
Special features: The lawyer will be assigned a client randomly during the first few trials. The client must not be found guilty for the duration of the game.
The client and lawyer are unable to be jailed. The lawyer automatically gets his client out of trail, and put into protective custody during the first night, which is a roleblock on his client.
The next day after discussion, the trial of his client will be resumed, the lawyer will instead defend the client, and votes will be made anon to all parties other then the client and lawyer.
Win conditions: Assigned clients must not be found guilty.
Loss conditions: No assigned clients survive, or all clients found guilty.
February 26th, 2012, 06:01 AM
"How come if jailor kills someone night 1, and they happen to be serial killer or mafia, nobody screams "FAILOR!!!"? But when a town is randomly executed first night, they get condemned? "
So to rephrase:
Its not greifing when the jailor successfully kills evil.
It is greifing when the jailor randomly executes and kills town.
"This argument alone implies that jailing isn't griefing."
What argument , there is no argument. You've given two opposite scenarios, and by attempting to link them, created a false dichotomy.
Perhaps you were suggesting that when a jailer executes randomly, and kills an evil party, its not greifing.
But that's not true.
Its still greifing when a jailer executes an evil without any grounds or reasoning.
The rest of your trolling is garbage not worth remarking over.
"How come if jailor kills someone night 1, and they happen to be serial killer or mafia, nobody screams "FAILOR!!!"? But when a town is randomly executed first night, they get condemned? "
So to rephrase:
Its not greifing when the jailor successfully kills evil.
It is greifing when the jailor randomly executes and kills town.
"This argument alone implies that jailing isn't griefing."
What argument , there is no argument. You've given two opposite scenarios, and by attempting to link them, created a false dichotomy.
Perhaps you were suggesting that when a jailer executes randomly, and kills an evil party, its not greifing.
But that's not true.
Its still greifing when a jailer executes an evil without any grounds or reasoning.
The rest of your trolling is garbage not worth remarking over.
February 14th, 2012, 12:02 AM
I like the mechanics.
I feel it has good synergy with the blackmailer to boot.
Its a new and unique roll.
Problems i have with it.
The victory condition seems a bit odd.
I'd honestly be happier if the victory condition was if he killed 2/3/4 players. At which point he becomes satiated.
If its an anti-town roll, its going to play havoc with a lot of setups when such a roll spawns. Simply because neutrals tend to be problematic to all parties. The exception being that the witch isn't actually a killing roll so its ability to affect the balance of power is minimal.
I'd prefer if the killer had control over if he actually kills or not.
The ability to silence someone and not kill them, would be very useful. As a doctor would otherwise be able to render you ineffective, healing anyone claiming to be silenced.
Eitherway, i feel this is one of the more interesting rolls to appear, and if there isn't enough room, i'd consider removing the arsonist to make way for this guy.
I like the mechanics.
I feel it has good synergy with the blackmailer to boot.
Its a new and unique roll.
Problems i have with it.
The victory condition seems a bit odd.
I'd honestly be happier if the victory condition was if he killed 2/3/4 players. At which point he becomes satiated.
If its an anti-town roll, its going to play havoc with a lot of setups when such a roll spawns. Simply because neutrals tend to be problematic to all parties. The exception being that the witch isn't actually a killing roll so its ability to affect the balance of power is minimal.
I'd prefer if the killer had control over if he actually kills or not.
The ability to silence someone and not kill them, would be very useful. As a doctor would otherwise be able to render you ineffective, healing anyone claiming to be silenced.
Eitherway, i feel this is one of the more interesting rolls to appear, and if there isn't enough room, i'd consider removing the arsonist to make way for this guy.
February 13th, 2012, 02:13 AM
I tihnk the watchlist works.
Its just a huge warning for the player, that they are close to landing on a vote-kick list.
For other players, it serves as a warning of what may happen to them if they dick about.
As a whole i think the system is working well, although frankly i'd banlist a lot more of the votekick players. Some of them don't seem to have the ability to reform.
I tihnk the watchlist works.
Its just a huge warning for the player, that they are close to landing on a vote-kick list.
For other players, it serves as a warning of what may happen to them if they dick about.
As a whole i think the system is working well, although frankly i'd banlist a lot more of the votekick players. Some of them don't seem to have the ability to reform.
February 10th, 2012, 01:49 AM
While i think there is a lot of interest in becoming a mod, and what process is involved. I doubt there is much need for new mods, let alone a forum.
I would however be interested in seeing how much traffic the reported players section gets. Since the reports are all hidden unless promoted to a punishment.
Perhaps a "What's involved in being a mod" thread, with details on how to apply.
While i think there is a lot of interest in becoming a mod, and what process is involved. I doubt there is much need for new mods, let alone a forum.
I would however be interested in seeing how much traffic the reported players section gets. Since the reports are all hidden unless promoted to a punishment.
Perhaps a "What's involved in being a mod" thread, with details on how to apply.
February 10th, 2012, 01:46 AM
Here are your answers, although i expect you already know them and are just trolling.
Q: How does this rule work?
A: It doesn't, see next question
Q: Does it actually exist?
A: It may have been a warning at some point, but it no longer exists.
Q: And can I be put back on the KV list?
A: You sure can, you have my highest recommendation for the vote-kick list.
Here are your answers, although i expect you already know them and are just trolling.
Q: How does this rule work?
A: It doesn't, see next question
Q: Does it actually exist?
A: It may have been a warning at some point, but it no longer exists.
Q: And can I be put back on the KV list?
A: You sure can, you have my highest recommendation for the vote-kick list.
February 9th, 2012, 10:21 PM
A spy that can only see the main target is a very handicapped spy indeed
But i believe a spy that can see ALL Mafia targets is a powerful roll that comes into it's own by itself.
If a spy is to be buffed, simply having them hear PM's is enough.
Imo, if pm's are enabled, its almost a requirement for maifa to have an inviolable night chat.
A spy that can only see the main target is a very handicapped spy indeed
But i believe a spy that can see ALL Mafia targets is a powerful roll that comes into it's own by itself.
If a spy is to be buffed, simply having them hear PM's is enough.
Imo, if pm's are enabled, its almost a requirement for maifa to have an inviolable night chat.
February 9th, 2012, 08:17 PM
So i've been considering the spy for a while, and i feel like the spy with the defacto options, is actually detrimental to the game
Fully enabled it allows the spy to hear what the maifa are doing.
The result is obvious, maifa don't talk at all.
What they do talk about can't be trusted, and thus used.
The result is that the spy doesn't use what is said, and the maifa don't talk about anything of value.
It shuts down the value of night chat for most of the game. Only really opening up when the maifa are both desperate and the likely hood of any spys being minimal
I've been hosting a few games now, and the first thing i do is i disable maifa chat for the spy.
The result is, that when i'm actually maifa, i breath easy.
Its actually really fun to be part of a secret organisation, talk openly and freely about who we want to attack, why we want to attack, and align our combined powers.
Now there are people who would think that a spy is badly underpowered, but with a recent change, they can quickly work out who isn't maifa, by seeing who is both attacked, and investigated.
That alone, i feel makes the spy incredibly powerful.
They can even thort disguisers effortlessly, since they know who they disguised as. I've seen spys nearly solo town to victory with his innate power of accurate guess lynching
So i suppose the point of this discussion would be, have you tried disabling Maifa night chat for the spy, and letting the players know that maifa chat is inviolable.
Give it a twirl, you'll be pleased when you're maifa, and otherwise you probably won't even notice the change.
So i've been considering the spy for a while, and i feel like the spy with the defacto options, is actually detrimental to the game
Fully enabled it allows the spy to hear what the maifa are doing.
The result is obvious, maifa don't talk at all.
What they do talk about can't be trusted, and thus used.
The result is that the spy doesn't use what is said, and the maifa don't talk about anything of value.
It shuts down the value of night chat for most of the game. Only really opening up when the maifa are both desperate and the likely hood of any spys being minimal
I've been hosting a few games now, and the first thing i do is i disable maifa chat for the spy.
The result is, that when i'm actually maifa, i breath easy.
Its actually really fun to be part of a secret organisation, talk openly and freely about who we want to attack, why we want to attack, and align our combined powers.
Now there are people who would think that a spy is badly underpowered, but with a recent change, they can quickly work out who isn't maifa, by seeing who is both attacked, and investigated.
That alone, i feel makes the spy incredibly powerful.
They can even thort disguisers effortlessly, since they know who they disguised as. I've seen spys nearly solo town to victory with his innate power of accurate guess lynching
So i suppose the point of this discussion would be, have you tried disabling Maifa night chat for the spy, and letting the players know that maifa chat is inviolable.
Give it a twirl, you'll be pleased when you're maifa, and otherwise you probably won't even notice the change.
February 8th, 2012, 03:30 AM
I will always vote to kick players on the votekick list.
You think you can justify in 20 seconds why you don't deserve to be kicked?
Even when the process that put you on that list probably took about an hours work combined from reporting to adding you to the list.
So going through that process, a process that even has an appeal process, you think that the burden of proof lies on proving your guilt?
As someone on the votekick list, you bear the burden of proving your innocence.
And 20 seconds, in a game about telling lies, isn't enough to prove you are worth keeping.
-kick
I'll add as well.
I kick not because of some powertrip like necroplant seems to believe, but simply because you aren't worth the risk, when it only takes 1 player to ruin the game for 14 other players.
Even if they don't ruin it, skyping, trolling, and other trollish behavour detracts significantly from the game.
I will always vote to kick players on the votekick list.
You think you can justify in 20 seconds why you don't deserve to be kicked?
Even when the process that put you on that list probably took about an hours work combined from reporting to adding you to the list.
So going through that process, a process that even has an appeal process, you think that the burden of proof lies on proving your guilt?
As someone on the votekick list, you bear the burden of proving your innocence.
And 20 seconds, in a game about telling lies, isn't enough to prove you are worth keeping.
-kick
I'll add as well.
I kick not because of some powertrip like necroplant seems to believe, but simply because you aren't worth the risk, when it only takes 1 player to ruin the game for 14 other players.
Even if they don't ruin it, skyping, trolling, and other trollish behavour detracts significantly from the game.
January 21st, 2012, 11:52 AM
The coroner can only spawn from a random roll when 1 of 2 conditions have been met:
1. That there is a janitor in the game.
2. That the coroner has options enabled.
So if you don't want to see the coroner, don't enable any of his options. Then he'll be a very rare spawn indeed.
The coroner can only spawn from a random roll when 1 of 2 conditions have been met:
1. That there is a janitor in the game.
2. That the coroner has options enabled.
So if you don't want to see the coroner, don't enable any of his options. Then he'll be a very rare spawn indeed.
January 18th, 2012, 12:13 AM
[QUOTE=Trenix;73982]It wasn't a debate. It was a group of fans defending the programmer and refusing to accept any suggestions. [/QUOTE]
The fact that you can't even see it was a debate goes to show how biased you are.
But allow me to chime in on this discussion of yours.
Regarding the disgusier:
The disgusier is powerful, but limited. Another kill, then he becomes useless. Unlike an consort, consig, blackmailer, or janitor, his power is once only, and results vary.
The sooner he uses his power, the sooner maifa will get a kill. But conversly the less he'll know about the roll he takes.
I've seen disgusiers that kill night 1. And achieving little of value
I've seen disgusiers hold out to night 4 and get lynched as a result, acheving nothing of value.
Sometimes they pull of epic feats of confusion, but that usally requires luck, skill, and misdirection.
As far as overpowered rolls go, i'd rate it as a close 3rd in maifa. With the GF and consig vastly more dangerious.
Regarding cultists:
By converting cultists back into town, what would you acheive?
The born-again townies would have a huge lead over maifa in unity, because they would work together knowing ex-cultists were townies.
Trolls would point out who the cultist was just to break/rig the system
Even if the cultists couldn't trust who was town, the time the cult leader dies, a lot of detection time could of been lost.
Any game with a cultist infestation normally becomes cult vs maifa with town caught in the cross-fire.
To allow 1 kill to shatter that, i can't even comprehend.
Regarding Masons:
I have no idea what you are talking about. Sounds like you are complaining about masons, but then you're describing how masons work when the "becomes mason leader" option is enabled.
Regarding Survivor:
Just because you don't like survivor, doesn't mean it needs to be changed.
Playing survivor is one of my favourite rolls, even pretending to be a survivor is nice.
The best vest for a survivor is that its too much hassle for mafia to attack them, little no reason for town to lynch them.
Your change would make the survivor a hostile target to town. They would always use the sheriff, mayor, or town roll as a human shield rather then risk using a maifa/sk.
Also what does it achieve this change. It does nothing to make the survivor more fun. End of the day hes still a loner, only a dangerious one. It also makes it harder for the survivor to win, because town will be far more inclined to kill them, and maifa/sk will be more inclined to test, since they wouldn't waste a shot if its true.
Regarding Executioner:
You talk about how an executioner shouhld have another way to win, yet berate how they become a jester if they fail.
An executioner has 2 chances to win, just because his roll changes doesn't change that fact.
Your suggestion to have exec's lynch maifa apon failure doesn't even make sense to me. They become aligned with town apon failure? Boring.
Regarding Vigilante
And that achives what in gameplay? I don't really give a damn about lore.
From a lore perspective its pretty clear maifa and the vet go at different hours. You think mafia are going to go around for a cup of tea with their victim, then while they were having buttered scones and tea the vigi bumps in towing a shotgun, and the maifa takes them both out?
In fact from hwo the vigi plays, its pretty clear the vigi is just a drive by shooter of some sort. He never checks what he hits, simply fires some rounds and moves on. He doesn't know what happened till the morning if a body does or doesn't show up.
Gameplay wise, at least ash points out it'd make Vigi's think twice before shooting. But i doubt it'd stop stupid people from shooting, and smart people are already selective with their kills.
Originally Posted by
Trenix
It wasn't a debate. It was a group of fans defending the programmer and refusing to accept any suggestions.
The fact that you can't even see it was a debate goes to show how biased you are.
But allow me to chime in on this discussion of yours.
Regarding the disgusier:
The disgusier is powerful, but limited. Another kill, then he becomes useless. Unlike an consort, consig, blackmailer, or janitor, his power is once only, and results vary.
The sooner he uses his power, the sooner maifa will get a kill. But conversly the less he'll know about the roll he takes.
I've seen disgusiers that kill night 1. And achieving little of value
I've seen disgusiers hold out to night 4 and get lynched as a result, acheving nothing of value.
Sometimes they pull of epic feats of confusion, but that usally requires luck, skill, and misdirection.
As far as overpowered rolls go, i'd rate it as a close 3rd in maifa. With the GF and consig vastly more dangerious.
Regarding cultists:
By converting cultists back into town, what would you acheive?
The born-again townies would have a huge lead over maifa in unity, because they would work together knowing ex-cultists were townies.
Trolls would point out who the cultist was just to break/rig the system
Even if the cultists couldn't trust who was town, the time the cult leader dies, a lot of detection time could of been lost.
Any game with a cultist infestation normally becomes cult vs maifa with town caught in the cross-fire.
To allow 1 kill to shatter that, i can't even comprehend.
Regarding Masons:
I have no idea what you are talking about. Sounds like you are complaining about masons, but then you're describing how masons work when the "becomes mason leader" option is enabled.
Regarding Survivor:
Just because you don't like survivor, doesn't mean it needs to be changed.
Playing survivor is one of my favourite rolls, even pretending to be a survivor is nice.
The best vest for a survivor is that its too much hassle for mafia to attack them, little no reason for town to lynch them.
Your change would make the survivor a hostile target to town. They would always use the sheriff, mayor, or town roll as a human shield rather then risk using a maifa/sk.
Also what does it achieve this change. It does nothing to make the survivor more fun. End of the day hes still a loner, only a dangerious one. It also makes it harder for the survivor to win, because town will be far more inclined to kill them, and maifa/sk will be more inclined to test, since they wouldn't waste a shot if its true.
Regarding Executioner:
You talk about how an executioner shouhld have another way to win, yet berate how they become a jester if they fail.
An executioner has 2 chances to win, just because his roll changes doesn't change that fact.
Your suggestion to have exec's lynch maifa apon failure doesn't even make sense to me. They become aligned with town apon failure? Boring.
Regarding Vigilante
And that achives what in gameplay? I don't really give a damn about lore.
From a lore perspective its pretty clear maifa and the vet go at different hours. You think mafia are going to go around for a cup of tea with their victim, then while they were having buttered scones and tea the vigi bumps in towing a shotgun, and the maifa takes them both out?
In fact from hwo the vigi plays, its pretty clear the vigi is just a drive by shooter of some sort. He never checks what he hits, simply fires some rounds and moves on. He doesn't know what happened till the morning if a body does or doesn't show up.
Gameplay wise, at least ash points out it'd make Vigi's think twice before shooting. But i doubt it'd stop stupid people from shooting, and smart people are already selective with their kills.
January 13th, 2012, 10:56 PM
There is nothing wrong with it.
Its stated, maifa are only out for themselves, they don't give a damned over the witch.
While sad taht they deny the witch a win, its within the rules.
There is nothing wrong with it.
Its stated, maifa are only out for themselves, they don't give a damned over the witch.
While sad taht they deny the witch a win, its within the rules.
January 13th, 2012, 01:12 AM
I'll second this.
Disable naming yourself after a colour.
Simple, quick, and easy.
And while it is amusing when the colours match, it is only confusing at best when they don't. I have seen games lost over the confusion.
Nothing is lost by disabling the stupid names, only the quality of the game improved slightly.
I'll second this.
Disable naming yourself after a colour.
Simple, quick, and easy.
And while it is amusing when the colours match, it is only confusing at best when they don't. I have seen games lost over the confusion.
Nothing is lost by disabling the stupid names, only the quality of the game improved slightly.
January 9th, 2012, 08:28 PM
i like keeping track of what iv'e said and written here.
That'd be great i could get them back.
i like keeping track of what iv'e said and written here.
That'd be great i could get them back.
January 9th, 2012, 06:51 AM
From a gameplay point of perspective, i don't see any justification.
As for lore, there are easy reasons to come up.
1. You see them at your house, you can't kill them, the crime scene would point all fingers to you woudln't it. Since you were alive and she was dead.
2. As an escort, or consort, i've never pictured myself as actually being the person to do it. Simply as a pimp sending a whore over to distract. Or is everyone bi in maifa?
Anyway, back to the point i wouldn't want that option to make it live. It'd make the escort class harder to be useful.
It'd also make the class considerably less useful as time goes on, and add an exception to the rule that would bring doubt into the equation should she be killed while on the job. You'd never know if she was successfully roll blocking and just got unlucky, or she was fail blocking.
Point is, this change does nothing for the gameplay, and "lore" wise, it can be easily justified either way by creative thinking.
And my firm belief is that gameplay > balance > lore
From a gameplay point of perspective, i don't see any justification.
As for lore, there are easy reasons to come up.
1. You see them at your house, you can't kill them, the crime scene would point all fingers to you woudln't it. Since you were alive and she was dead.
2. As an escort, or consort, i've never pictured myself as actually being the person to do it. Simply as a pimp sending a whore over to distract. Or is everyone bi in maifa?
Anyway, back to the point i wouldn't want that option to make it live. It'd make the escort class harder to be useful.
It'd also make the class considerably less useful as time goes on, and add an exception to the rule that would bring doubt into the equation should she be killed while on the job. You'd never know if she was successfully roll blocking and just got unlucky, or she was fail blocking.
Point is, this change does nothing for the gameplay, and "lore" wise, it can be easily justified either way by creative thinking.
And my firm belief is that gameplay > balance > lore
January 9th, 2012, 04:56 AM
So there has been some debate over private messages being allowed.
For me, in my games, i actually disable PMs.
I do this because i feel with PMs, its too easy for town to build a trust network. Then moving on to steam-roll all who oppose.
I also find the PM system horribly setup. Ever try to have a conversation with someone via pm's AND listen to what town is saying, its a total text clusterfuck.
I do like however, how it raises the skill cap of mafia. Now you can relay information and create complex webs of trust and deceptions. But the 30-45 seconds one gets per day just isn't enough to digest these new threads, let alone manage the PM system and the global town talk.
End of the day, i guess i'm opposed to PM's being enabled because the add too much overhead to the game, and under a skilled players hands, completely distorts an otherwise balanced game.
Thoughts and opinions welcome.
Something more interesting then reading about some troll trolling a troll account on this forum would be nice to read for once.
[edit]
I'll add, PM's use to give meaning to the spy class that was otherwise worthless without pm's or masons. But now with spys knowing who the Mafia target, i feel spys can come into their own, even without PMs.
So there has been some debate over private messages being allowed.
For me, in my games, i actually disable PMs.
I do this because i feel with PMs, its too easy for town to build a trust network. Then moving on to steam-roll all who oppose.
I also find the PM system horribly setup. Ever try to have a conversation with someone via pm's AND listen to what town is saying, its a total text clusterfuck.
I do like however, how it raises the skill cap of mafia. Now you can relay information and create complex webs of trust and deceptions. But the 30-45 seconds one gets per day just isn't enough to digest these new threads, let alone manage the PM system and the global town talk.
End of the day, i guess i'm opposed to PM's being enabled because the add too much overhead to the game, and under a skilled players hands, completely distorts an otherwise balanced game.
Thoughts and opinions welcome.
Something more interesting then reading about some troll trolling a troll account on this forum would be nice to read for once.
[edit]
I'll add, PM's use to give meaning to the spy class that was otherwise worthless without pm's or masons. But now with spys knowing who the Mafia target, i feel spys can come into their own, even without PMs.
December 23rd, 2011, 01:15 AM
[QUOTE=oops_ur_dead;59365]Works for me. Try again.[/QUOTE]
I just tried it again.
It still failed.
Try replacing bazar's picks with this
===Bazar's Choice===
This setup is designed to give an unpredictable erratic game, with a lot of suspense and mystery.
Town has a lot of detection and tricks up its sleeves, but its hard to confirm a mafia target with mafia having plenty of deception and few in number. In addition the neutrals will either be killing indiscriminately, or sowing confusion in town's ranks, further easing the pressure mafia will be placed under.
Setup Notes:
:[[Doctor|<span style="color:green">Sheriff</span>]]
:[[Doctor|<span style="color:green">Investigator</span>]]
:[[Doctor|<span style="color:green">Doctor</span>]]
:[[Jailor|<span style="color:darkgreen">Jailor</span>]]
:[[Vigilante|<span style="color:darkgreen">Vigilante</span>]]
:[[Godfather|<span style="color:red">Godfather</span>]]
:<span style="color:red">Random Basic Mafia</span>
:<span style="color:red">Random Advanced Mafia</span>
:<span style="color:green">Basic Random Town</span>
:<span style="color:green">Basic Random Town</span>
:<span style="color:darkgreen">Advanced Random Town</span>
:[[:Category: Neutral Roles|<span style="color:violet">Random Basic Neutral</span>]]
:[[:Category: Neutral Roles|<span style="color:violet">Random Advanced Neutral</span>]]
:[[:Category: Neutral Roles|<span style="color:violet">Random Neutral</span>]]
:[[:Category: Neutral Roles|<span style="color:Yellow">Survivor</span>]]
Options to set in order of host setup:
Town:
:Citizen: Bulletproof vest
:Sheriff: Detects all
:Investigator: <none>
:Doctor: Knows when target is attacked
:Jailor: 2 Executions
:Vigilante: 2 Kills
:Mason: Replaces Mason Leader
:Spy: Enable all spy options
:Coroner: Discovers all targets, last will, and death type (Disable all to remove any possibility of Coroner spawning)
:Bodyguard: <None>
:Veteran: Limited to 3 nights
:Mayor: Vote counts for 3
Mafia:
:All Mafia: become mafiso if unable to kill enabled
:Godfather: Invulnerable, Not blockable, undetectable, Kills without mafioso
:Janitor limited to 2 cleanings
:Blackmailor: Target can talk during trial (Clock settings makes him relevant even if the target initiates a trial, see below)
Neutral:
:Serial Killer: Invulnerable at night
:Arsonist: Attacks ignore invulnerability, victim knows.
:Witch: Can Self target, victims know.
:Survivor: 4 vests
:Jester: Guilty voter dies
:Executioner: Becomes jester, target is always town
Random:
:Random Town: Exclude Citizens
:Random Basic Town: Exclude Citizens
Server Settings:
:Day Length: 1.6 Minutes
:Night Length: 0.5 Minutes
:Start Game at: Day/No Lynch
:Trial Pauses Day: Not Enabled
:Trial Defense: Enabled
:Last Will Allowed: Enabled
:Night Sequence: Death Descriptions
:Choose Names: Enabled
:Day Type: Majority + Trial
:Discussion: Enabled
:Discussion Time: 0.5 Minutes
:PM Allowed: Not Enabled
:Trial Length: 0.5 Minutes
:Tutorial: Not Enabled
Reasons why this is a good pick:
Day Start and Length:
:Starting in the day puts players at ease, and even enables options that aren't normally possible. This helps put people at ease for the coming night, as well as to listen in on chat and base their targets (healing or otherwise) based on waht was said. It is also essential for the Jailor.
:The additional time also helps stop panic setting in when things are hard to follow. 40 extra seconds makes a world of differance when the accusions are flying between an unconfirmed detector an a suspect mafia.
Jailor and Vigiliantie:
:By having the jailor and vigiliantie, town will be less willing to lynch. After all, if someone does have to die randomly, might as well let the jailor/vig do it.
Random Neturals:
:By having random Neturals, town is very less willing to lynch, least they face a jester, or kill on command of an exec. This also doubles as a shield for mafia.
Basic rolls:
:Plenty of basic rolls ensures that even if some detectors are killed early in the game, town should still have still have a reserve of detectors to continue the hunt.
Trials and Blackmailing:
:A needless trial only wastes time, which doesn't pause for town. This means that the game goes at fixed pace. Random lynchings are very unrewarding as an innocent outcome will often be followed by night.
All rolls enabled:
:All rolls are enabled except Citizen (since most random players rage-quit if spawned as a citizen). This is good for achievement players, as well as adds to the mystery. Anything can and does happen with this setup.
Sides are balanced:
:Usually the side that wins will not be decided by luck, but by a player's skill and charisma.
Easy to fix drops
:In the event of dropped players, just delete slots you have a full roster. The game remains balanced as long as the top 2 neutrals stay in game.
Originally Posted by
oops_ur_dead
Works for me. Try again.
I just tried it again.
It still failed.
Try replacing bazar's picks with this
===Bazar's Choice===
This setup is designed to give an unpredictable erratic game, with a lot of suspense and mystery.
Town has a lot of detection and tricks up its sleeves, but its hard to confirm a mafia target with mafia having plenty of deception and few in number. In addition the neutrals will either be killing indiscriminately, or sowing confusion in town's ranks, further easing the pressure mafia will be placed under.
Setup Notes:
:[[Doctor|Sheriff]]
:[[Doctor|Investigator]]
:[[Doctor|Doctor]]
:[[Jailor|Jailor]]
:[[Vigilante|Vigilante]]
:[[Godfather|Godfather]]
:Random Basic Mafia
:Random Advanced Mafia
:Basic Random Town
:Basic Random Town
:Advanced Random Town
:[[:Category: Neutral Roles|Random Basic Neutral]]
:[[:Category: Neutral Roles|Random Advanced Neutral]]
:[[:Category: Neutral Roles|Random Neutral]]
:[[:Category: Neutral Roles|Survivor]]
Options to set in order of host setup:
Town:
:Citizen: Bulletproof vest
heriff: Detects all
:Investigator:
octor: Knows when target is attacked
:Jailor: 2 Executions
:Vigilante: 2 Kills
:Mason: Replaces Mason Leader
py: Enable all spy options
:Coroner: Discovers all targets, last will, and death type (Disable all to remove any possibility of Coroner spawning)
:Bodyguard:
:Veteran: Limited to 3 nights
:Mayor: Vote counts for 3
Mafia:
:All Mafia: become mafiso if unable to kill enabled
:Godfather: Invulnerable, Not blockable, undetectable, Kills without mafioso
:Janitor limited to 2 cleanings
:Blackmailor: Target can talk during trial (Clock settings makes him relevant even if the target initiates a trial, see below)
Neutral:
erial Killer: Invulnerable at night
:Arsonist: Attacks ignore invulnerability, victim knows.
:Witch: Can Self target, victims know.
urvivor: 4 vests
:Jester: Guilty voter dies
:Executioner: Becomes jester, target is always town
Random:
:Random Town: Exclude Citizens
:Random Basic Town: Exclude Citizens
Server Settings:
ay Length: 1.6 Minutes
:Night Length: 0.5 Minutes
tart Game at: Day/No Lynch
:Trial Pauses Day: Not Enabled
:Trial Defense: Enabled
:Last Will Allowed: Enabled
:Night Sequence: Death Descriptions
:Choose Names: Enabled
ay Type: Majority + Trial
iscussion: Enabled
iscussion Time: 0.5 Minutes
:PM Allowed: Not Enabled
:Trial Length: 0.5 Minutes
:Tutorial: Not Enabled
Reasons why this is a good pick:
Day Start and Length:
tarting in the day puts players at ease, and even enables options that aren't normally possible. This helps put people at ease for the coming night, as well as to listen in on chat and base their targets (healing or otherwise) based on waht was said. It is also essential for the Jailor.
:The additional time also helps stop panic setting in when things are hard to follow. 40 extra seconds makes a world of differance when the accusions are flying between an unconfirmed detector an a suspect mafia.
Jailor and Vigiliantie:
:By having the jailor and vigiliantie, town will be less willing to lynch. After all, if someone does have to die randomly, might as well let the jailor/vig do it.
Random Neturals:
:By having random Neturals, town is very less willing to lynch, least they face a jester, or kill on command of an exec. This also doubles as a shield for mafia.
Basic rolls:
:Plenty of basic rolls ensures that even if some detectors are killed early in the game, town should still have still have a reserve of detectors to continue the hunt.
Trials and Blackmailing:
:A needless trial only wastes time, which doesn't pause for town. This means that the game goes at fixed pace. Random lynchings are very unrewarding as an innocent outcome will often be followed by night.
All rolls enabled:
:All rolls are enabled except Citizen (since most random players rage-quit if spawned as a citizen). This is good for achievement players, as well as adds to the mystery. Anything can and does happen with this setup.
Sides are balanced:
:Usually the side that wins will not be decided by luck, but by a player's skill and charisma.
Easy to fix drops
:In the event of dropped players, just delete slots you have a full roster. The game remains balanced as long as the top 2 neutrals stay in game.
December 14th, 2011, 09:24 AM
I'm not sure what caused this, it only played up in the last 2 nights.
But i was trying to autopsy a lookout who died in the morning
When i did the autopsy, i got the results for a bodyguard, who i found out was killed that very night (i got the report before the death message)
I tried to run it on a godfather who got lynched right after, but got the message "Target is still alive", and noone died that night.
I suspect it was simply trying to target the person next on the body list to my target.
Resulting in it targeting the bodyguard who died after the invest, and getting a target still alive error when targeted the godfather.
I'm not sure what caused this, it only played up in the last 2 nights.
But i was trying to autopsy a lookout who died in the morning
When i did the autopsy, i got the results for a bodyguard, who i found out was killed that very night (i got the report before the death message)
I tried to run it on a godfather who got lynched right after, but got the message "Target is still alive", and noone died that night.
I suspect it was simply trying to target the person next on the body list to my target.
Resulting in it targeting the bodyguard who died after the invest, and getting a target still alive error when targeted the godfather.