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/reserve

/reserve

[MENTION=27344]Quick[/MENTION] Sorry, I'm in another game and have very little time IRL as well. Thanks.

@Quick Sorry, I'm in another game and have very little time IRL as well. Thanks.

[QUOTE=Frog;641310]
This device is useful in acquiring tips.

The point about reaching conclusions is kind of fair. If you're commenting just for the sake of commenting, then your opinions serve little purpose, other than for scum to latch onto one of your opinions and leash you into going along. So, purposeful posts may be a better wording for 'draw conclusions'.

For example- I often don't reveal all my notes and conclusions on players up front, especially if it isn't relevant towards my purpose in the thread at the moment. Instead I'll ask players questions, prod them for reactions, or see how it plays out organically - but I always circle back to explain my thought process of questions/prods/waiting.

If I said something like;
I dunno if I trust player X because of this post, but not sure.

Then you come off as hedgy, AND you've revealed to Player X your intentions. So if you then try to ask player X questions, you'll probably get jack.[/QUOTE]

Thank you.

Originally Posted by Frog

This device is useful in acquiring tips.

The point about reaching conclusions is kind of fair. If you're commenting just for the sake of commenting, then your opinions serve little purpose, other than for scum to latch onto one of your opinions and leash you into going along. So, purposeful posts may be a better wording for 'draw conclusions'.

For example- I often don't reveal all my notes and conclusions on players up front, especially if it isn't relevant towards my purpose in the thread at the moment. Instead I'll ask players questions, prod them for reactions, or see how it plays out organically - but I always circle back to explain my thought process of questions/prods/waiting.

If I said something like;
I dunno if I trust player X because of this post, but not sure.

Then you come off as hedgy, AND you've revealed to Player X your intentions. So if you then try to ask player X questions, you'll probably get jack.

Thank you.

[QUOTE=Unknown1234;641302]Aside from not using the word fan, you didnt do too badly.

I would avoid posts that don't have any conclusions. It gives us a bad impression of you because that itself is not an opinion which is what people are looking for.

Also, push your scum-reads more. I didn't really see who you scum-read throughout the entire game, and you didn't push anyone aside from me when there were already multiple votes on me.[/QUOTE]

Thanks braj.

Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Aside from not using the word fan, you didnt do too badly.

I would avoid posts that don't have any conclusions. It gives us a bad impression of you because that itself is not an opinion which is what people are looking for.

Also, push your scum-reads more. I didn't really see who you scum-read throughout the entire game, and you didn't push anyone aside from me when there were already multiple votes on me.

Thanks braj.

Any tips for me, fam?

Any tips for me, fam?

Without Mesk this game would not be solved, period.

Without Mesk this game would not be solved, period.

[vote]Mesk514[/vote]

-vote Mesk514

Mesk is MVP hands down.

Mesk is MVP hands down.

[QUOTE=Yukitaka Oni;641133]My lynch train only contain town[/QUOTE]

Something to think about for next time if you're capable.

Originally Posted by Yukitaka Oni

My lynch train only contain town

Something to think about for next time if you're capable.

[QUOTE=Unknown1234;641104]TBH, I would have scum-read you less if you didn't make this post. It bothered me.[/QUOTE]

How would you have done this post differently?

Originally Posted by Unknown1234

TBH, I would have scum-read you less if you didn't make this post. It bothered me.

How would you have done this post differently?

[QUOTE=Never Unlucky;641099]Shouts to the SK for doing all the dirty work for town? c:[/QUOTE]

That was great ^^

Who was your target for N3?

Originally Posted by Never Unlucky

Shouts to the SK for doing all the dirty work for town? c:

That was great ^^

Who was your target for N3?

Also, [MENTION=9527]deathworlds[/MENTION] didn't actually take their vote off me IIRC so I will take my props/shouts back on that one.

Also, @deathworlds didn't actually take their vote off me IIRC so I will take my props/shouts back on that one.

Also props to [MENTION=28749]SecondLynch[/MENTION] for strong banter.

Also props to @SecondLynch for strong banter.

Have to give props to [MENTION=28243]Unknown1234[/MENTION] for coming out of the tunnel, [MENTION=9527]deathworlds[/MENTION] remaining objective despite knowing his shot on me failed, and [MENTION=28401]Eggy[/MENTION] for having his mind in the right place and being a voice of reason at a crucial time. Shouts to [MENTION=27200]Stereo[/MENTION] for a great first game, had me fooled for sure. Thanks to [MENTION=6656]RLVG[/MENTION] for hosting and subbing me in. Shouts to Anass's dog for choosing the evidence bowl.

Have to give props to @Unknown1234 for coming out of the tunnel, @deathworlds remaining objective despite knowing his shot on me failed, and @Eggy for having his mind in the right place and being a voice of reason at a crucial time. Shouts to @Stereo for a great first game, had me fooled for sure. Thanks to @RLVG for hosting and subbing me in. Shouts to Anass's dog for choosing the evidence bowl.

[QUOTE=Unknown1234;641077]Jealous who did you check?

Also bussed targets are notified. I'm sure that one person claiming to be bussed isn't convincing.[/QUOTE]

N1 I checked Snorlax, because if they didn't get NK or were protected by a protective role, I wanted to be as sure as possible that we were following a Town leader.

N2 I checked Unknown1234 and got back a Town read, hence my shifting off of you, despite the fact that I was beginning to realize that my role could be completely useless if there is SK and a GF in the game (meaning all Sheriff reads will come back town). I still did my checks anyway.

N3 I checked SL, but the game ended.

[QUOTE=Mesk514;641083]I rb'd DW's N2 preventing him from shooting Jealous I believe.[/QUOTE]

I honestly think you're Town's MVP this game. Solid play/decision-making.

GG WP Everyone, thanks for the game.

Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Jealous who did you check?

Also bussed targets are notified. I'm sure that one person claiming to be bussed isn't convincing.

N1 I checked Snorlax, because if they didn't get NK or were protected by a protective role, I wanted to be as sure as possible that we were following a Town leader.

N2 I checked Unknown1234 and got back a Town read, hence my shifting off of you, despite the fact that I was beginning to realize that my role could be completely useless if there is SK and a GF in the game (meaning all Sheriff reads will come back town). I still did my checks anyway.

N3 I checked SL, but the game ended.

Originally Posted by Mesk514

I rb'd DW's N2 preventing him from shooting Jealous I believe.

I honestly think you're Town's MVP this game. Solid play/decision-making.

GG WP Everyone, thanks for the game.

[QUOTE=Eggy;640941]if I had to gues you last scum is it would be mattzed. Ive seen many games where a scum gets replaced in but ive never seen the neut ve replaced it makes sense because scum was getting killed badly so not suprising he wud be replaced.[/QUOTE]

It would also be an SK that was sending night actions and not posting at all, which I find to be highly unlikely. An AFK scum seems plausible but I feel like someone would have thrown a serious bitchfit at some point about it, definitely before the time when MattZed got placed in. I wouldn't even call this a meta-read, it's more like a "if I was in their shoes," read. If we think of MattZed's slot as being the AFK scum, then Quick and Stereo were in this alone D1, which is troubling. Then Stereo was alone in D2, which is doubly troubling. Now MattZed's slot as AFK scum is alone in D3, which is pretty fucking brutal. It doesn't make much sense to me that MattZed would be scum under these circumstances if fairness is a priority for most people in this game, including the host, which is why I'd rather let him slide and try to see what Unknown/SL think about each other (again) with the current situation in mind.

Originally Posted by Eggy

if I had to gues you last scum is it would be mattzed. Ive seen many games where a scum gets replaced in but ive never seen the neut ve replaced it makes sense because scum was getting killed badly so not suprising he wud be replaced.

It would also be an SK that was sending night actions and not posting at all, which I find to be highly unlikely. An AFK scum seems plausible but I feel like someone would have thrown a serious bitchfit at some point about it, definitely before the time when MattZed got placed in. I wouldn't even call this a meta-read, it's more like a "if I was in their shoes," read. If we think of MattZed's slot as being the AFK scum, then Quick and Stereo were in this alone D1, which is troubling. Then Stereo was alone in D2, which is doubly troubling. Now MattZed's slot as AFK scum is alone in D3, which is pretty fucking brutal. It doesn't make much sense to me that MattZed would be scum under these circumstances if fairness is a priority for most people in this game, including the host, which is why I'd rather let him slide and try to see what Unknown/SL think about each other (again) with the current situation in mind.

[QUOTE=Gyrlander;640938]Honestly, I don't feel like reviewing how I got voted up because I really don't mind a lot, but I remember Jealous convincing Eggy to vote me and then our majestic mayor voting me with a very good explanation. Well, it's Thug's promedium level of play anyway so I won't say anything.[/QUOTE]

You got that all wrong fam. So you lurk AND you don't read, ok.

[quote]Still, the thing is that deathworlds may have shot you (or may be faking sk, but improbable) and then you claim that Mesk roleblocked you. [/quote]

He may have, and if he didn't and is pulling this out of his ass, then he will be first on the chopping block. There is no scenario in which deathworlds faking this would win him the game, especially since he came out of his own accord. It's either that deathworlds is terminally retarded or that he is actually Vigi, in which case I am siding with the latter.

[quote]Forget about all this. If you were rbed N1 then you aren't sk.[/quote]

Thanks, then take your vote off me.

[quote]I think we are hunting sk right now so I'll forget about mafia. If you aren't sk, then either deathworlds is lying and is real sk or someone else is it, which seems the most probable option.[/quote]

This is a sound way to proceed. Who do you think between MattZed/Unknown/SL is SK/Scum and why? Assuming it's not you, of course.

Originally Posted by Gyrlander

Honestly, I don't feel like reviewing how I got voted up because I really don't mind a lot, but I remember Jealous convincing Eggy to vote me and then our majestic mayor voting me with a very good explanation. Well, it's Thug's promedium level of play anyway so I won't say anything.

You got that all wrong fam. So you lurk AND you don't read, ok.

Still, the thing is that deathworlds may have shot you (or may be faking sk, but improbable) and then you claim that Mesk roleblocked you.

He may have, and if he didn't and is pulling this out of his ass, then he will be first on the chopping block. There is no scenario in which deathworlds faking this would win him the game, especially since he came out of his own accord. It's either that deathworlds is terminally retarded or that he is actually Vigi, in which case I am siding with the latter.

Forget about all this. If you were rbed N1 then you aren't sk.

Thanks, then take your vote off me.

I think we are hunting sk right now so I'll forget about mafia. If you aren't sk, then either deathworlds is lying and is real sk or someone else is it, which seems the most probable option.

This is a sound way to proceed. Who do you think between MattZed/Unknown/SL is SK/Scum and why? Assuming it's not you, of course.

[QUOTE=Eggy;640935]its possible that yr scum invest but its literally impossible that you are SK so I really dont know what he is thinking[/QUOTE]

Theoretically it's possible, but he hasn't even considered that I am any one of the possible Town roles, including Citizen. Like, that didn't even register for him as a possibility, which is just tunnel play. If I was TPR, Mesk would have blocked me just the same. If I was Citizen, I'd have no action to block. He just automatically assumed a scum invest vs. SK dichotomy which is silly.

Originally Posted by Eggy

its possible that yr scum invest but its literally impossible that you are SK so I really dont know what he is thinking

Theoretically it's possible, but he hasn't even considered that I am any one of the possible Town roles, including Citizen. Like, that didn't even register for him as a possibility, which is just tunnel play. If I was TPR, Mesk would have blocked me just the same. If I was Citizen, I'd have no action to block. He just automatically assumed a scum invest vs. SK dichotomy which is silly.

I just noticed that [MENTION=9527]deathworlds[/MENTION] pretty much said there are two options - I am scum investigative or serial killer. Lol. I'm town. Please, stop.

I just noticed that @deathworlds pretty much said there are two options - I am scum investigative or serial killer. Lol. I'm town. Please, stop.

[QUOTE=Gyrlander;640929]This ass-licking got me.

lul[/QUOTE]

Maybe you should present some evidence and then the dog might reconsider?

Originally Posted by Gyrlander

This ass-licking got me.

lul

Maybe you should present some evidence and then the dog might reconsider?

Also, Mayor Thug's dog has reviewed the evidence and made a decision, I'm sure.

Also, Mayor Thug's dog has reviewed the evidence and made a decision, I'm sure.

[QUOTE=Gyrlander;640926]Still, as for I know I'm being randomly voted probably for being lurky, something that characterises me in every game so kinda ew.

But worse is that the mayor is Thug doing the best sheep he can.[/QUOTE]

As far as I'm concerned, you're the one player who has been in this game the whole time, is not confirmed town, and has lurked and therefore done nothing productive. That is reason enough at D3 for me, over SL, MattZed who 99% can't be SK, and Unknown. You don't get a free pass just because you lurked and you always lurk, so your lurking isn't AI? Please.

Originally Posted by Gyrlander

Still, as for I know I'm being randomly voted probably for being lurky, something that characterises me in every game so kinda ew.

But worse is that the mayor is Thug doing the best sheep he can.

As far as I'm concerned, you're the one player who has been in this game the whole time, is not confirmed town, and has lurked and therefore done nothing productive. That is reason enough at D3 for me, over SL, MattZed who 99% can't be SK, and Unknown. You don't get a free pass just because you lurked and you always lurk, so your lurking isn't AI? Please.

[QUOTE=deathworlds;640921]The only way JealousTL would be absolutely certain that Mesk roleblocked him, was that either his own action didn't go through (scum investigative) or that he was informed that he is serial killer, and his own target didn't go through, killing Mesk.[/QUOTE]

Again, if Mesk RB'd me and I was SK, she'd be dead. If I was SK and she didn't RB me, what reason does she have for lying about it since she is confirmed town? Mesk died to Scum, and Scum Stereo died to SK. Nothing other than that makes sense. I can't be SK.

Originally Posted by deathworlds

The only way JealousTL would be absolutely certain that Mesk roleblocked him, was that either his own action didn't go through (scum investigative) or that he was informed that he is serial killer, and his own target didn't go through, killing Mesk.

Again, if Mesk RB'd me and I was SK, she'd be dead. If I was SK and she didn't RB me, what reason does she have for lying about it since she is confirmed town? Mesk died to Scum, and Scum Stereo died to SK. Nothing other than that makes sense. I can't be SK.

I'm divided as to who to go for in terms of the Vigi shot, because we know for sure that MattZed can't be SK (unless that player really did just submit night actions and never post; if that's the case, why did he move to get replaced?). I feel like SK is much more likely to be between SL/Unknown/Gyrl. SK can't be killed at night. If we're lynching Gyrl, we should NK one of SL/Unknown.

I'm divided as to who to go for in terms of the Vigi shot, because we know for sure that MattZed can't be SK (unless that player really did just submit night actions and never post; if that's the case, why did he move to get replaced?). I feel like SK is much more likely to be between SL/Unknown/Gyrl. SK can't be killed at night. If we're lynching Gyrl, we should NK one of SL/Unknown.

[QUOTE=Gyrlander;640919]Eggy, you're assuming that DW getting RB'ed and not being able to shoot Jealous means that Jealous is automatically innocent? If I remember correctly, Mesk thought he was guilty but suddenly she died? HMMM?[/QUOTE]

That's physically impossible because if Mesk died by RBing me as SK, then who killed Stereo? Why would Mesk claim to have RB'd me N1 and say I was innocent if she was town? If I was SK, why didn't Mesk die when she RB'd me N1? And if Vigi killed Stereo, then why didn't DW claim it and who did scum kill? Your math doesn't add up.

Originally Posted by Gyrlander

Eggy, you're assuming that DW getting RB'ed and not being able to shoot Jealous means that Jealous is automatically innocent? If I remember correctly, Mesk thought he was guilty but suddenly she died? HMMM?

That's physically impossible because if Mesk died by RBing me as SK, then who killed Stereo? Why would Mesk claim to have RB'd me N1 and say I was innocent if she was town? If I was SK, why didn't Mesk die when she RB'd me N1? And if Vigi killed Stereo, then why didn't DW claim it and who did scum kill? Your math doesn't add up.

[QUOTE=Gyrlander;640893]You guys are extremely dumb. Deathworlds is either vigi or sk But I believe he's vigi because if not he would just get lynched tomorrow. I dont know why you guys decide to vote me with Jealous after he mentioned some hypothetical escenarios that are most likely just bla bla bla. [vote]JealousTL[/vote]

Vigilante shots dont dissapear like nothing.[/QUOTE]

That's a really solid argument.

Originally Posted by Gyrlander

You guys are extremely dumb. Deathworlds is either vigi or sk But I believe he's vigi because if not he would just get lynched tomorrow. I dont know why you guys decide to vote me with Jealous after he mentioned some hypothetical escenarios that are most likely just bla bla bla.

-vote JealousTL

Vigilante shots dont dissapear like nothing.

That's a really solid argument.

[QUOTE=MattZed;640886]EDIT: Possibility 5: Mesk roleblocked DW before dying.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't made aware of any night actions whatsoever, so this is the only explanation.

Originally Posted by MattZed

EDIT: Possibility 5: Mesk roleblocked DW before dying.

I wasn't made aware of any night actions whatsoever, so this is the only explanation.

[QUOTE=AnassRhamur;640883]Give me until tomorrow for me to set up the food bowl. My dog chooses who dies[/QUOTE]

Hopefully your dog sides on the side of evidence and not useless fluff.

Originally Posted by AnassRhamur

Give me until tomorrow for me to set up the food bowl. My dog chooses who dies

Hopefully your dog sides on the side of evidence and not useless fluff.

[QUOTE=Eggy;640877]no thats about it. As long as we dont lynch between this circle and DW gets his shot off we shud really have this game won[/QUOTE]

Sounds good.

Anass, your two votes would really help here.

Originally Posted by Eggy

no thats about it. As long as we dont lynch between this circle and DW gets his shot off we shud really have this game won

Sounds good.

Anass, your two votes would really help here.

[vote]Gyrlander[/vote]

Eggy, if you're playing me, I'll call it play of the year.

-vote Gyrlander

Eggy, if you're playing me, I'll call it play of the year.

[QUOTE=Eggy;640871]my town reads are myself JT ass(obviously) and DW for the moment(based only off his claim seems legit) I think I have 3 town confirmed on my part being DW myself and Ass I really dont see an advantage to claiming vigi as last scum and especially not as the neutral so in my eyes is a good as confirmed.

JT is a very strong town read for me only possible way he is scum is if he is last mafia and didnt use a nightkill which is not very likely if you ask me. I think we should lynch gyrlander and [MENTION=9527]deathworlds[/MENTION] you shoot Mattzed and its GG. if none of those two are scum then we lynch unknown tmrw[/QUOTE]

I'm fine with this plan. I'll admit now that my vote on SL was just to get a reaction, anyway. I still don't think he's scum, as per my D2 post.

Originally Posted by Eggy

my town reads are myself JT ass(obviously) and DW for the moment(based only off his claim seems legit) I think I have 3 town confirmed on my part being DW myself and Ass I really dont see an advantage to claiming vigi as last scum and especially not as the neutral so in my eyes is a good as confirmed.

JT is a very strong town read for me only possible way he is scum is if he is last mafia and didnt use a nightkill which is not very likely if you ask me. I think we should lynch gyrlander and @deathworlds you shoot Mattzed and its GG. if none of those two are scum then we lynch unknown tmrw

I'm fine with this plan. I'll admit now that my vote on SL was just to get a reaction, anyway. I still don't think he's scum, as per my D2 post.

[QUOTE=Eggy;640869]JT is town and I believe DWs claim the obvious answer is that mesk role blocked you(duh) you and unknown were 2 of here scum reads I thought she would have RBd unknown but it makes sense she chose you tbh. If anything it was a good move because it would have been a misfire. Dont be a fucking idiot DW jealous is 100% confirmed as not the SK and is also confirmed to not have used a nightkill so he is most likely town.

I belive your claim because it would be stupid for scum to fake a claim like that but still In my mind JT is my hardest town read. Im a bit ify on unknown still. If I had to chose a lynch pool it would definately be gyrlander #1 lurking through the entire game very good chance he is the neutral. Mattzed seems very opurtunistic and is potentially the last scum I dont like the way he is playing at all. SL has not been playing like NU normally does but It might just be because hes a ***** cant really tell whos posting. And unknown is more null for some reason I always scum read him so im trying to give him a chance becase he is often town when ai read him as scum.[/QUOTE]

True, I forgot about Mesk RBing before getting NK'd. That means there doesn't have to be a Busdriver. This actually makes a lot more sense now, thanks Eggy.

For SL, you should look at post color - NU is standard, while SP is baby blue or whatever you want to call that color (I think I am blue-colorblind at least a little).

I'm liking this town circle:

1. Eggy
2. Jealous
3. deathworlds
4. AnassRhamur

Anyone I'm missing?

Originally Posted by Eggy

JT is town and I believe DWs claim the obvious answer is that mesk role blocked you(duh) you and unknown were 2 of here scum reads I thought she would have RBd unknown but it makes sense she chose you tbh. If anything it was a good move because it would have been a misfire. Dont be a fucking idiot DW jealous is 100% confirmed as not the SK and is also confirmed to not have used a nightkill so he is most likely town.

I belive your claim because it would be stupid for scum to fake a claim like that but still In my mind JT is my hardest town read. Im a bit ify on unknown still. If I had to chose a lynch pool it would definately be gyrlander #1 lurking through the entire game very good chance he is the neutral. Mattzed seems very opurtunistic and is potentially the last scum I dont like the way he is playing at all. SL has not been playing like NU normally does but It might just be because hes a ***** cant really tell whos posting. And unknown is more null for some reason I always scum read him so im trying to give him a chance becase he is often town when ai read him as scum.

True, I forgot about Mesk RBing before getting NK'd. That means there doesn't have to be a Busdriver. This actually makes a lot more sense now, thanks Eggy.

For SL, you should look at post color - NU is standard, while SP is baby blue or whatever you want to call that color (I think I am blue-colorblind at least a little).

I'm liking this town circle:

1. Eggy
2. Jealous
3. deathworlds
4. AnassRhamur

Anyone I'm missing?

It's rude to kiss and tell, but I guess I've been put on the spot so I must.

[url]https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37920-S-FM-211-Three-Foes-and-a-Stranger?p=640231&viewfull=1#post640231[/url]
[url]https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37920-S-FM-211-Three-Foes-and-a-Stranger?p=640235&viewfull=1#post640235[/url]
[url]https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37920-S-FM-211-Three-Foes-and-a-Stranger?p=640241&viewfull=1#post640241[/url]
[url]https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37920-S-FM-211-Three-Foes-and-a-Stranger?p=640265&viewfull=1#post640265[/url]

I'm town.

It's rude to kiss and tell, but I guess I've been put on the spot so I must.

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post640231
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post640235
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post640241
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post640265

I'm town.

The more I think about it, the more stupid it was for deathworlds to come out with this information without thinking it through. [MENTION=9527]deathworlds[/MENTION], why do you just ignore Mesk's post? She is confirmed town Escort and she confirmed that I did no night action when SK killed someone, so how could you even begin to think I was SK? -__-;

The more I think about it, the more stupid it was for deathworlds to come out with this information without thinking it through. @deathworlds , why do you just ignore Mesk's post? She is confirmed town Escort and she confirmed that I did no night action when SK killed someone, so how could you even begin to think I was SK? -__-;

In short, get your votes off deathworlds, get your votes off me (as per Mesk). Voting for me is saying that you don't believe Mesk, who had no reason to lie about me, or that you believe in the fact that deathworlds targeted me as scum, Busdriver targeted me as scum, and replaced me with someone who was already due to die last night (Mesk or Stereo). Although, now that I think about it, the third option could be that I am the Busdriver, but I will say right now that I am NOT the Busdriver.

In short, get your votes off deathworlds, get your votes off me (as per Mesk). Voting for me is saying that you don't believe Mesk, who had no reason to lie about me, or that you believe in the fact that deathworlds targeted me as scum, Busdriver targeted me as scum, and replaced me with someone who was already due to die last night (Mesk or Stereo). Although, now that I think about it, the third option could be that I am the Busdriver, but I will say right now that I am NOT the Busdriver.

There are three possibilities here:

1. You are lying and are pulling a gambit as scum/SK which would be dumb. There are 8 players left; there is SK, and 1 scum (probably you), and there might be a legitimate Vigilante. That means if according to your plan I lynched today, and you are scum, you will probably get killed by Vigilante in the night and you lose. I'll be lynched, you'll be Vigi shot, and SK will kill 1, leaving 4 town and 1 SK, which isn't terrible tbh. If there is no Vigilante, then after I get lynched and flip town, you get lynched tomorrow and you lose. After SK kills 2, there will be 3 town, 1 SK, which isn't great but still not absolutely terrible. None of this plays out in your favor, so I am going to go ahead and say that you're not that stupid. So, option 2...

2. You are telling the truth and are actually Vigilante. I can understand why you wanted to target me, but I'll be frank and say that there were better choices. Now, we know that it can't be a Bodyguard, because then I would have been informed, and you and the Bodyguard would be dead (which would suck royally). The other option is that there is a Doctor, but then I would have been informed as well, so we know that there is no Doctor. We can officially rule out the Witch in this scenario. The only option left is Busdriver.

The Busdriver scenario, in my mind, plays out one of two ways:

1. Busdriver reveals himself. Therefore we have two confirmed towns in deathworlds and Busdriver. The only way to avoid both of them dying tonight is by using the Busdriver and hoping that there is no roleblocker. The scum and SK won't know which is being saved - the driver or the Vigi. Also, they shouldn't know which targets which, so there is a chance that they both target one, and if that one is the one being swapped, then hooray for town. If not, then we are still left with 1 confirmed town. If it's the Busdriver, then he will be nearly impossible to kill without a roleblock on the other end. If it's the Vigi, he can get at least one shot off (assuming he sends his target in first [MENTION=6656]RLVG[/MENTION] [COLOR="#00FF00"]Kills are carried out chronologically, right?[/COLOR]), but it better count (i.e. don't be stupid and target me).

2. Busdriver does not reveal himself. This will be bad for me because it would make deathworlds' claim much stronger, but the Busdriver would still be hidden and thus can protect Vigi if he so chooses. It gets dicey, because Busdriver can try to get SK to kill scum or scum to kill SK at the risk of himself. It's a complicated matter the more I think about what I would do in such a scenario.

Either way, I can understand why deathworlds came out but unfortunately it plays into the hands of scum/SK to some degree. Hopefully the Busdriver will make the right choice after thinking it through.

There are three possibilities here:

1. You are lying and are pulling a gambit as scum/SK which would be dumb. There are 8 players left; there is SK, and 1 scum (probably you), and there might be a legitimate Vigilante. That means if according to your plan I lynched today, and you are scum, you will probably get killed by Vigilante in the night and you lose. I'll be lynched, you'll be Vigi shot, and SK will kill 1, leaving 4 town and 1 SK, which isn't terrible tbh. If there is no Vigilante, then after I get lynched and flip town, you get lynched tomorrow and you lose. After SK kills 2, there will be 3 town, 1 SK, which isn't great but still not absolutely terrible. None of this plays out in your favor, so I am going to go ahead and say that you're not that stupid. So, option 2...

2. You are telling the truth and are actually Vigilante. I can understand why you wanted to target me, but I'll be frank and say that there were better choices. Now, we know that it can't be a Bodyguard, because then I would have been informed, and you and the Bodyguard would be dead (which would suck royally). The other option is that there is a Doctor, but then I would have been informed as well, so we know that there is no Doctor. We can officially rule out the Witch in this scenario. The only option left is Busdriver.

The Busdriver scenario, in my mind, plays out one of two ways:

1. Busdriver reveals himself. Therefore we have two confirmed towns in deathworlds and Busdriver. The only way to avoid both of them dying tonight is by using the Busdriver and hoping that there is no roleblocker. The scum and SK won't know which is being saved - the driver or the Vigi. Also, they shouldn't know which targets which, so there is a chance that they both target one, and if that one is the one being swapped, then hooray for town. If not, then we are still left with 1 confirmed town. If it's the Busdriver, then he will be nearly impossible to kill without a roleblock on the other end. If it's the Vigi, he can get at least one shot off (assuming he sends his target in first @RLVG Kills are carried out chronologically, right?), but it better count (i.e. don't be stupid and target me).

2. Busdriver does not reveal himself. This will be bad for me because it would make deathworlds' claim much stronger, but the Busdriver would still be hidden and thus can protect Vigi if he so chooses. It gets dicey, because Busdriver can try to get SK to kill scum or scum to kill SK at the risk of himself. It's a complicated matter the more I think about what I would do in such a scenario.

Either way, I can understand why deathworlds came out but unfortunately it plays into the hands of scum/SK to some degree. Hopefully the Busdriver will make the right choice after thinking it through.

I see, thank you.

I see, thank you.

[MENTION=6656]RLVG[/MENTION] [COLOR="#00FF00"]Can there be more than one of a TPR?[/COLOR]

@RLVG Can there be more than one of a TPR?

[QUOTE=Unknown1234;640825]I'm almost done for tonight, so I cannot guarentee another response for this.[/quote]

1. I came from TeamLiquid. If I understood your point correctly, I had explicitly said that I forgot to read the Vigi specifically and I only found out after Yuki asked a question to RLVG. IIRC, I said something along the lines of "Oops, don't I feel like a dumbass lol," and then I followed up with an apology to Yuki and explanation for why I had that misunderstanding. You only saw me pushing Yuki for it and didn't read the consequent explanation and realization of my mistake. You weren't supposed to be clairvoyant on the matter, and I did admit that I made a mistake and jumped quickly because my knowledgebase was flawed. That's all there is to it.

2. Quick vs. SL seemed too long to be SvS. SL vs. You seemed too long to be TvT, but it was still a possibility in my mind. Why I changed my mind is because I've come to realize that Quick and NU, two players I have more experience with than the others in this game, both fit the bill of people who would create a ploy like this. Further situational evidence is provided in the same response I gave to SL where I did address the question you are asking here.

3. a. Weak scum push as in a push that scum would do? I brought up numerous linked posts of Yuki saying suspicious things which I think is a very open way to go about this. Although, as I said, it turned out to just be Yuki being Yuki.

b. No, I was trying to point out an inconsistency in your reads because you put us in the same box when we don't fit. I think I understand what you're trying to say, though. I simply didn't have a good enough reason (didn't find anyone to be particularly scummy) to push anyone in the short time I was in the game and active after I got put into it, until the Yuki push. I only had time to formulate ideas at the end of D1, then analyze D1 retroactively post-flip in D2, and then have largely been defending myself against you since then.

c. This is a relatively minor point but it went along with the other things I was saying. I guess I'll dig the post up now ;;

This is your post:

[url]https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37920-S-FM-211-Three-Foes-and-a-Stranger?p=640204&viewfull=1#post640204[/url]

You say "He then says it's weird that I picked Quick over SecondLynch in a argument that he didn't even comment on."

I am saying that I had no opportunity to comment on the argument, as I was not yet in the game.

This was my rebuttal then, by the way:

[url]https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37920-S-FM-211-Three-Foes-and-a-Stranger?p=640227&viewfull=1#post640227[/url]

d. Okay, fair.

e. I'm pretty confident that I have read all of your posts. I can understand what you're trying to say about bias though, so I'll just drop it on that now that I've explained my situation and you've read it.

Thank you for your answers.

@everyone: [url]https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37920-S-FM-211-Three-Foes-and-a-Stranger?p=640231&viewfull=1#post640231[/url]

This is another post where Mesk confirms that I am not SK, just so that it's on record.

Originally Posted by Unknown1234

I'm almost done for tonight, so I cannot guarentee another response for this.

1. I came from TeamLiquid. If I understood your point correctly, I had explicitly said that I forgot to read the Vigi specifically and I only found out after Yuki asked a question to RLVG. IIRC, I said something along the lines of "Oops, don't I feel like a dumbass lol," and then I followed up with an apology to Yuki and explanation for why I had that misunderstanding. You only saw me pushing Yuki for it and didn't read the consequent explanation and realization of my mistake. You weren't supposed to be clairvoyant on the matter, and I did admit that I made a mistake and jumped quickly because my knowledgebase was flawed. That's all there is to it.

2. Quick vs. SL seemed too long to be SvS. SL vs. You seemed too long to be TvT, but it was still a possibility in my mind. Why I changed my mind is because I've come to realize that Quick and NU, two players I have more experience with than the others in this game, both fit the bill of people who would create a ploy like this. Further situational evidence is provided in the same response I gave to SL where I did address the question you are asking here.

3. a. Weak scum push as in a push that scum would do? I brought up numerous linked posts of Yuki saying suspicious things which I think is a very open way to go about this. Although, as I said, it turned out to just be Yuki being Yuki.

b. No, I was trying to point out an inconsistency in your reads because you put us in the same box when we don't fit. I think I understand what you're trying to say, though. I simply didn't have a good enough reason (didn't find anyone to be particularly scummy) to push anyone in the short time I was in the game and active after I got put into it, until the Yuki push. I only had time to formulate ideas at the end of D1, then analyze D1 retroactively post-flip in D2, and then have largely been defending myself against you since then.

c. This is a relatively minor point but it went along with the other things I was saying. I guess I'll dig the post up now ;;

This is your post:

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post640204

You say "He then says it's weird that I picked Quick over SecondLynch in a argument that he didn't even comment on."

I am saying that I had no opportunity to comment on the argument, as I was not yet in the game.

This was my rebuttal then, by the way:

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post640227

d. Okay, fair.

e. I'm pretty confident that I have read all of your posts. I can understand what you're trying to say about bias though, so I'll just drop it on that now that I've explained my situation and you've read it.

Thank you for your answers.

@everyone: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post640231

This is another post where Mesk confirms that I am not SK, just so that it's on record.

"... when I clearly explained that I simply didn't scumread you for pushing me [b]at a time when others were doing so[/b], and then when I did my D1 analysis I had gathered enough information to scumread you."

^ Just to clarify, I meant "at a time when others were scumreading you."

"... when I clearly explained that I simply didn't scumread you for pushing me at a time when others were doing so, and then when I did my D1 analysis I had gathered enough information to scumread you."

^ Just to clarify, I meant "at a time when others were scumreading you."

[QUOTE=Unknown1234;640821]1.) you seem to be missing the point. You jumped on it so quickly that you didn't even check to see if it made sense. I don't get why.

2.) I don't know what the triangle does. Nowhere does it say "if SL fights Quick and Unknown, both of them must be teamed up". Honest note, you said you wouldn't put SecondLynch as scum if I flipped town, but yet I essentially "flipped" however you still seem to be voting him.

3.) honestly, if it's been a long week for me. The only thing I know I missed was the 2nd post with a wall in it and so I probably didn't look at that much. Otherwise I feel like I've answered those 3 questions you posted but if it makes you happy I will answer it again but not after because it will keep going back and forth.[/QUOTE]

1. As I said before, I checked every role but Vigi, lol. I never played with a "Vigi can't kill N1" rule before, or if I have, it never came into consideration.

2. "...so I can't immediately jump to SecondLynch being S if Unknown flips T, but I will definitely consider it." I've considered it, it's in the post you have bookmarked for tomorrow (1037) so you can peruse that when you have time. I just find it unlikely that TvT could be so adamantly fought on both sides but I could be mistaken, as I said before - it depends on the nature of the players.

3. No, I really don't think you've addressed those points sufficiently. I will summarize the key points of my defense:

a. I did push Yuki, even though you're calling it "opportunistic," it still qualifies as me pushing someone. Part of your argument was I was playing too "friendly" and thus was likely to be neutral.
b. You lump deathworlds in with me as potentially neutral, but he is the polar opposite of my play, so your qualifications for making both of us neutral are inconsistent.
c. You said that my opinion seemed spontaneous or inconsistent because I had an opinion on a conversation that happened, but I didn't jump into that argument at the time. However, it happened before I was even a part of the game.
d. You claimed that I slipped by excluding SK from my analysis of a certain series of posts, but the only reason I did that is because SK wasn't brought up in the first place and you completely missed the context of the argument which I was referring to.
e. You claimed that I was townreading you until I made an opportunistic flip, when I clearly explained that I simply didn't scumread you for pushing me at a time when others were doing so, and then when I did my D1 analysis I had gathered enough information to scumread you.

Thanks, hope next week is better for you!

Originally Posted by Unknown1234

1.) you seem to be missing the point. You jumped on it so quickly that you didn't even check to see if it made sense. I don't get why.

2.) I don't know what the triangle does. Nowhere does it say "if SL fights Quick and Unknown, both of them must be teamed up". Honest note, you said you wouldn't put SecondLynch as scum if I flipped town, but yet I essentially "flipped" however you still seem to be voting him.

3.) honestly, if it's been a long week for me. The only thing I know I missed was the 2nd post with a wall in it and so I probably didn't look at that much. Otherwise I feel like I've answered those 3 questions you posted but if it makes you happy I will answer it again but not after because it will keep going back and forth.

1. As I said before, I checked every role but Vigi, lol. I never played with a "Vigi can't kill N1" rule before, or if I have, it never came into consideration.

2. "...so I can't immediately jump to SecondLynch being S if Unknown flips T, but I will definitely consider it." I've considered it, it's in the post you have bookmarked for tomorrow (1037) so you can peruse that when you have time. I just find it unlikely that TvT could be so adamantly fought on both sides but I could be mistaken, as I said before - it depends on the nature of the players.

3. No, I really don't think you've addressed those points sufficiently. I will summarize the key points of my defense:

a. I did push Yuki, even though you're calling it "opportunistic," it still qualifies as me pushing someone. Part of your argument was I was playing too "friendly" and thus was likely to be neutral.
b. You lump deathworlds in with me as potentially neutral, but he is the polar opposite of my play, so your qualifications for making both of us neutral are inconsistent.
c. You said that my opinion seemed spontaneous or inconsistent because I had an opinion on a conversation that happened, but I didn't jump into that argument at the time. However, it happened before I was even a part of the game.
d. You claimed that I slipped by excluding SK from my analysis of a certain series of posts, but the only reason I did that is because SK wasn't brought up in the first place and you completely missed the context of the argument which I was referring to.
e. You claimed that I was townreading you until I made an opportunistic flip, when I clearly explained that I simply didn't scumread you for pushing me at a time when others were doing so, and then when I did my D1 analysis I had gathered enough information to scumread you.

Thanks, hope next week is better for you!

[QUOTE=deathworlds;640818]I will admit that I've been a bit more of a null read than I needed to be, but w/e.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty hype for the big reveal.

Originally Posted by deathworlds

I will admit that I've been a bit more of a null read than I needed to be, but w/e.

I'm pretty hype for the big reveal.

[QUOTE=SecondLynch;640810]We were put at L-3 before we even got on. JTL was put at L-1 1h30 into the day. Take a chill pill and fasten your seatbelts, guys...


[vote]deathworlds[/vote]


This dude has strictly made setup spec contributions 3 days into the game.


His comments that were actually player related were always one liners.

[SPOILER=Examples]

















No, you haven't pushed at all.





Not going to be of any use. You know it's shitpost after shitpost.







[/spoiler]


Also, he's been 'pushing' solely after the lowest hanging fruits, Yuki and Drizzt. He has not expressed his opinion on anybody else other than JTL and Unknown and failed to provide reads even though I prodded him to give one <5 times.


This slot [B]never[/B] scum-hunted, yet it has posted a total of 100 times at the time of making this post. His biggest non setup-spec post is this one


, and it has very little substance.


More importantly, it has no follow-up.[/QUOTE]

Personally, I don't see how his posting is any worse than Gyrlander or MattZed's ancestor's on paper. To me, all three are the same on scumminess for different reasons:

1. High activity, low content, low effort reads and votes.
2. Low activity, low content.
3. No activity.

Hard to say which is the scummiest of the three.

Originally Posted by SecondLynch

We were put at L-3 before we even got on. JTL was put at L-1 1h30 into the day. Take a chill pill and fasten your seatbelts, guys...

-vote deathworlds

This dude has strictly made setup spec contributions 3 days into the game.


His comments that were actually player related were always one liners.

Spoiler : Examples :

No, you haven't pushed at all.





Not going to be of any use. You know it's shitpost after shitpost.

Also, he's been 'pushing' solely after the lowest hanging fruits, Yuki and Drizzt. He has not expressed his opinion on anybody else other than JTL and Unknown and failed to provide reads even though I prodded him to give one <5 times.


This slot never scum-hunted, yet it has posted a total of 100 times at the time of making this post. His biggest non setup-spec post is this one


, and it has very little substance.


More importantly, it has no follow-up.

Personally, I don't see how his posting is any worse than Gyrlander or MattZed's ancestor's on paper. To me, all three are the same on scumminess for different reasons:

1. High activity, low content, low effort reads and votes.
2. Low activity, low content.
3. No activity.

Hard to say which is the scummiest of the three.

[QUOTE=Unknown1234;640811]1.) I must have missed the stuff labeled under "wall" or it was briefly skimmed under my lack of time. I will get to that now. Secondly, you jumping on Yuki seemed too opportunistic to me. Trying to capitalize on minor errors that don't even seem like a slip in the right circumstances.

2.) you need to stop. There was no triangle, and I really can't follow your logic so to me it looks like you've changed your opinion one too many times.

3.) labelling me like that is different from saying you disagree with my push on you, which is biased. I really would stop.[/QUOTE]

1. I jumped on what I saw as a scum-slip. I think that's a no-brainer - when someone seems to post something that only scum should know, then you need to push that. It may be "opportunistic," but it was based on logic (that turned out to have the wrong foundation).

2. The triangle did exist. You and SL argued. SL and Quick argued. Both arguments were very long and extensive. Quick flipped scum. That means that SL seemed unlikely to be scum, and that meant that you might be scum. Of course, this does assume that people don't have the habit of having long-winded multi-page arguments with their teammates for the sake of appearances, which I admit can be faulty with certain players. However, it is more to go off of than nothing; it's better to make some sort of starting point and work from there than take shots in the dark.

3. It is different, because while I do disagree with your push, as you yourself have admitted, you did not read the rebuttals I offered and continued to push me with the same arguments anyway, which in my opinion is poor play, hence "bad town."

Originally Posted by Unknown1234

1.) I must have missed the stuff labeled under "wall" or it was briefly skimmed under my lack of time. I will get to that now. Secondly, you jumping on Yuki seemed too opportunistic to me. Trying to capitalize on minor errors that don't even seem like a slip in the right circumstances.

2.) you need to stop. There was no triangle, and I really can't follow your logic so to me it looks like you've changed your opinion one too many times.

3.) labelling me like that is different from saying you disagree with my push on you, which is biased. I really would stop.

1. I jumped on what I saw as a scum-slip. I think that's a no-brainer - when someone seems to post something that only scum should know, then you need to push that. It may be "opportunistic," but it was based on logic (that turned out to have the wrong foundation).

2. The triangle did exist. You and SL argued. SL and Quick argued. Both arguments were very long and extensive. Quick flipped scum. That means that SL seemed unlikely to be scum, and that meant that you might be scum. Of course, this does assume that people don't have the habit of having long-winded multi-page arguments with their teammates for the sake of appearances, which I admit can be faulty with certain players. However, it is more to go off of than nothing; it's better to make some sort of starting point and work from there than take shots in the dark.

3. It is different, because while I do disagree with your push, as you yourself have admitted, you did not read the rebuttals I offered and continued to push me with the same arguments anyway, which in my opinion is poor play, hence "bad town."

[QUOTE=Unknown1234;640809]Err, no that isn't my last will. I can't post it though.[/QUOTE]

Oh, my bad. It kinda seemed like a public last will to me. Sorry, didn't mean to lie, I just wanted SL to have access to what I thought your last will was sooner rather than later.

Originally Posted by Unknown1234

Err, no that isn't my last will. I can't post it though.

Oh, my bad. It kinda seemed like a public last will to me. Sorry, didn't mean to lie, I just wanted SL to have access to what I thought your last will was sooner rather than later.

[QUOTE=SecondLynch;640802][COLOR="#AFEEEE"]Hey Unknown, I probably sheeped my partner too hard yesterday. Can you redirect me to your will? Where can I find it?[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[url]https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37920-S-FM-211-Three-Foes-and-a-Stranger?p=640672&viewfull=1#post640672[/url]

Originally Posted by SecondLynch

Hey Unknown, I probably sheeped my partner too hard yesterday. Can you redirect me to your will? Where can I find it?

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post640672

[QUOTE=SecondLynch;640800][COLOR="#AFEEEE"]I have no idea what I just read. First off, that's too many Yuki's in the same sentence.
Second, Yukitaka being confirmed mayor was done with or without your help, and that was after the fact. You had nothing to do with it.

Third, biggest point here is that [B]you're saying you don't want to push people?[/B]
^Is this correct?[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
1. Ignore the sentence with the Yukis then, everything else should be relatively easy to understand.

2. If that was the case, then why would Yuki say "FUCK YOU JEALOUS -REVEAL?" It's because I was scumreading/pushing them.

3. I'm saying that there are other ways to push people than voting for them.

Originally Posted by SecondLynch

I have no idea what I just read. First off, that's too many Yuki's in the same sentence.
Second, Yukitaka being confirmed mayor was done with or without your help, and that was after the fact. You had nothing to do with it.

Third, biggest point here is that you're saying you don't want to push people?
^Is this correct?

1. Ignore the sentence with the Yukis then, everything else should be relatively easy to understand.

2. If that was the case, then why would Yuki say "FUCK YOU JEALOUS -REVEAL?" It's because I was scumreading/pushing them.

3. I'm saying that there are other ways to push people than voting for them.

[QUOTE=SecondLynch;640799][COLOR="#AFEEEE"]I can't speak for Unknown, but there are my thoughts—
You aren't exactly too friendly, but you didn't actually push anyone. Which is to be expected, you just replaced in. The wall post you made did lack a lot in terms of stances. I think my partner said something to this effect. [B]Are pre-flip associations something you do often on the TL forums?[/B]

I really really hate it when players just say to check your post history. Why don't you check it for us?

You don't seem to be reading Unknown as scum(?) Let's just find out. [B] Do you think Unknown is town or scum right now? [/B][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

1. I pushed Yuki when I thought that they scumslipped on the SK/Witch+Vigi situation. When I realized I had forgotten that Vigi can't kill N1, I backed off, but when RLVG confirmed that it was possible, I continued to push. Also, my second [URL="https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/37920-S-FM-211-Three-Foes-and-a-Stranger?p=640588#post640588"]wall post[/URL] was effectively a push on both Yuki and Unknown.

2. It was not a pre-flip association but a post-flip association, as noted in the above post. Because of the Quick vs. SL vs. Unknown triangle, and Quick being scum, I drew what I thought were the most logically sound connections. If you mean that I am looking for associations that happened before a flip, and analyzing them after a flip, then yes, that is something I do.

3. I think that he is town but is playing like a bad town right now.

Originally Posted by SecondLynch

I can't speak for Unknown, but there are my thoughts—
You aren't exactly too friendly, but you didn't actually push anyone. Which is to be expected, you just replaced in. The wall post you made did lack a lot in terms of stances. I think my partner said something to this effect. Are pre-flip associations something you do often on the TL forums?

I really really hate it when players just say to check your post history. Why don't you check it for us?

You don't seem to be reading Unknown as scum(?) Let's just find out. Do you think Unknown is town or scum right now?

1. I pushed Yuki when I thought that they scumslipped on the SK/Witch+Vigi situation. When I realized I had forgotten that Vigi can't kill N1, I backed off, but when RLVG confirmed that it was possible, I continued to push. Also, my second wall post was effectively a push on both Yuki and Unknown.

2. It was not a pre-flip association but a post-flip association, as noted in the above post. Because of the Quick vs. SL vs. Unknown triangle, and Quick being scum, I drew what I thought were the most logically sound connections. If you mean that I am looking for associations that happened before a flip, and analyzing them after a flip, then yes, that is something I do.

3. I think that he is town but is playing like a bad town right now.

[QUOTE=SecondLynch;640794][COLOR="#AFEEEE"]That was pretty. It was very pretty~

But for real—
Why were you so reluctant to vote Unknown1234 before the end of the day? Were you going for a anti-no-lynch this day?[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

I wouldn't say I was entirely reluctant. I feel a person have more motivation to sway their accuser if the accuser's vote is not yet cast. Also, it helps me stay objective, because I can argue more empirically and not with the mindset of "this is my read, this is my vote, and I will defend it." In other words, trying to prevent myself from tunneling and giving people an opportunity to present a counter-case or otherwise convince me. However, Unknown was my strongest scum read, and Yuki was my strongest neutral/scum-read, which turned out to be just Yuki being Yuki, just a slightly different version of Yuki, one that was equally if not more Yuki than the original Yuki given the flip. If that makes sense. The fact that I did not vote Unknown and that I pushed Yuki, resulted in Yuki being confirmed town AND they didn't get NK, which is great for town, IMO.

Originally Posted by SecondLynch

That was pretty. It was very pretty~

But for real—
Why were you so reluctant to vote Unknown1234 before the end of the day? Were you going for a anti-no-lynch this day?

I wouldn't say I was entirely reluctant. I feel a person have more motivation to sway their accuser if the accuser's vote is not yet cast. Also, it helps me stay objective, because I can argue more empirically and not with the mindset of "this is my read, this is my vote, and I will defend it." In other words, trying to prevent myself from tunneling and giving people an opportunity to present a counter-case or otherwise convince me. However, Unknown was my strongest scum read, and Yuki was my strongest neutral/scum-read, which turned out to be just Yuki being Yuki, just a slightly different version of Yuki, one that was equally if not more Yuki than the original Yuki given the flip. If that makes sense. The fact that I did not vote Unknown and that I pushed Yuki, resulted in Yuki being confirmed town AND they didn't get NK, which is great for town, IMO.

[QUOTE=SecondLynch;640790]Yesterday you were saying that Unknown vs. SL was TvS with unknown being scum or TvT. Now it doesn't make sense for it to be TvT? Explain.

Also, yesterday you said that Quick vs. SL seemed too long of an interaction to be SvS. What made you change your mind?

Why doesn't it make sense for us to be alive but it makes sense for MattZed, deathworlds, you and Yuki to be alive?[/QUOTE]

Pretty sure I said it was TvS with Unknown being S and you being T, but if Unknown flipped T I wouldn't automatically put you in the S pile. The fact that you didn't get NK is raising my suspicions, while Unknown not being lynched with only 2 scum and 1 SK in the game who would profit from a potential ML on him is not scum AI.

In retrospect, you are both the type of players to pull a stunt of this nature.

You were by far the most active. It is quite obvious that there are/were a lot of suspicions about me, so there is no need for scum to be rid of me, MattZed's player hasn't done a single thing so he would be very convenient to keep in the endgame, deathworlds just spews reads and votes everywhere which almost no one follows, and Yuki would be likely to be protected because she was confirmed mayor (and I haven't seen Yuki being a driving town force in any game so far, so they aren't exactly high on Mafia's threat list). The only explanation for your not being NK, in my eyes, is due to your push on Unknown being faulty, which might be part of the reason why I was kept around as well, leading my logic to flow full circle on this.

Originally Posted by SecondLynch

Yesterday you were saying that Unknown vs. SL was TvS with unknown being scum or TvT. Now it doesn't make sense for it to be TvT? Explain.

Also, yesterday you said that Quick vs. SL seemed too long of an interaction to be SvS. What made you change your mind?

Why doesn't it make sense for us to be alive but it makes sense for MattZed, deathworlds, you and Yuki to be alive?

Pretty sure I said it was TvS with Unknown being S and you being T, but if Unknown flipped T I wouldn't automatically put you in the S pile. The fact that you didn't get NK is raising my suspicions, while Unknown not being lynched with only 2 scum and 1 SK in the game who would profit from a potential ML on him is not scum AI.

In retrospect, you are both the type of players to pull a stunt of this nature.

You were by far the most active. It is quite obvious that there are/were a lot of suspicions about me, so there is no need for scum to be rid of me, MattZed's player hasn't done a single thing so he would be very convenient to keep in the endgame, deathworlds just spews reads and votes everywhere which almost no one follows, and Yuki would be likely to be protected because she was confirmed mayor (and I haven't seen Yuki being a driving town force in any game so far, so they aren't exactly high on Mafia's threat list). The only explanation for your not being NK, in my eyes, is due to your push on Unknown being faulty, which might be part of the reason why I was kept around as well, leading my logic to flow full circle on this.