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Stealth is right as an absolute; however, it's another thing in a 10P setup :P


The setup is a bit better now, but really, the very idea of the setup is flawed IMO, after analysis. I cannot approve this, sorry.

Stealth is right as an absolute; however, it's another thing in a 10P setup :P


The setup is a bit better now, but really, the very idea of the setup is flawed IMO, after analysis. I cannot approve this, sorry.

I 100% agree with Mag's suggestions of adding a night chat/making it nightless with a minimal time for JK convert. 12 hours should be enough to avoid timezone-fishing. I also 100% agree with D1 immunity not rewarding scum hunting enough.

The loophole, though, doesn't actually exist : if every town is lynched, the game will end in a draw-ish status : the JK and the Jester will be the last players standing, majority at that point being 51% of 2, which is a rounded up 2. The Jester King will not have gotten all of his Jesters lynched, but will have survived, so it's a draw in my opinion; this should be changed to a Scum loss to avoid some weird scenario where scum intentionally throw a draw like this, because it's not really the fun of the game.

Also notice the 1 night cooldown between convert charges. It means that the Jester King has to survive a MINIMUM of 7 days, assuming they play perfectly, along with their Jesters. That's [B]extremely[/B] hard, and since lynch is mandatory, it forces the game to narrowing the lynch pool more and more, until it's the final 3, where the Jester, the Jester King, and the Townie are fighting. In such a long game without nightkills, it's basically giving town the game on a silver platter, because the Townie just has to analyze play and changes, given that they KNOW who is scum. Of course, it's not impossible for them to fail, but it's really not that hard if they have some skills.

To sum it up, it's extremely hard for scum to win this (or, if you prefer, it is imbalanced, and imbalanced isn't fun and doesn't require the same high level of skill for everyone, which was praised here), because of having to survive 7 days as a triple executioner, who converts people, while these people may screw you.


As for the off-topic, I would replay Lady Gaga setup, personally. It was fun and quite balanced. Thanks for your input, Mag!

I 100% agree with Mag's suggestions of adding a night chat/making it nightless with a minimal time for JK convert. 12 hours should be enough to avoid timezone-fishing. I also 100% agree with D1 immunity not rewarding scum hunting enough.

The loophole, though, doesn't actually exist : if every town is lynched, the game will end in a draw-ish status : the JK and the Jester will be the last players standing, majority at that point being 51% of 2, which is a rounded up 2. The Jester King will not have gotten all of his Jesters lynched, but will have survived, so it's a draw in my opinion; this should be changed to a Scum loss to avoid some weird scenario where scum intentionally throw a draw like this, because it's not really the fun of the game.

Also notice the 1 night cooldown between convert charges. It means that the Jester King has to survive a MINIMUM of 7 days, assuming they play perfectly, along with their Jesters. That's extremely hard, and since lynch is mandatory, it forces the game to narrowing the lynch pool more and more, until it's the final 3, where the Jester, the Jester King, and the Townie are fighting. In such a long game without nightkills, it's basically giving town the game on a silver platter, because the Townie just has to analyze play and changes, given that they KNOW who is scum. Of course, it's not impossible for them to fail, but it's really not that hard if they have some skills.

To sum it up, it's extremely hard for scum to win this (or, if you prefer, it is imbalanced, and imbalanced isn't fun and doesn't require the same high level of skill for everyone, which was praised here), because of having to survive 7 days as a triple executioner, who converts people, while these people may screw you.


As for the off-topic, I would replay Lady Gaga setup, personally. It was fun and quite balanced. Thanks for your input, Mag!

[QUOTE=Mike;812049]Also MM yes this setup the fact of your jesters can screw you is ment to be in there. This is why the JK picks who are there jesters. This is not a LOW skill of player setup this setup it ment to be a challenge. One lottery anyone can setup. This is a setup of skill. So yes would require players to try. And anyone wanting to troll should not play.[/QUOTE]

See my post above. I have a more specific question, though: Which skill exactly is involved in finding who's faking scum and who's really scum, in a game where alignments and win conditions change drastically, and where people are trying to get lynched? This is not a trap question, I just want to know the mindset behind the setup.

Originally Posted by Mike

Also MM yes this setup the fact of your jesters can screw you is ment to be in there. This is why the JK picks who are there jesters. This is not a LOW skill of player setup this setup it ment to be a challenge. One lottery anyone can setup. This is a setup of skill. So yes would require players to try. And anyone wanting to troll should not play.

See my post above. I have a more specific question, though: Which skill exactly is involved in finding who's faking scum and who's really scum, in a game where alignments and win conditions change drastically, and where people are trying to get lynched? This is not a trap question, I just want to know the mindset behind the setup.

[QUOTE=Gandalfr;812014]this looks like Lady Gaga all over again[/QUOTE]
It is very similar, yes. Lady Gaga was hard for scum; this is even harder, and includes the dangerous Jester mechanic in a game where you must lynch a specific scum.

The main issue with this setup is that it does not reward scum hunting. On D1, JK is literally invulnerable, because of proxy. Although this gives a chance to scum, it also makes D1 scum hunting pretty bad, especially given the mandatory lynch (Which should be added in the setup, btw).
Plus, the Jester role is a dangerous one because obvious Jesters do not get lynched, and people acting normally don't either, OR get lynched for the wrong reasons. It means that good Jesters will act mildly scummy [I]on purpose.[/I] And then comes in the WIFOM plays, which isn't scum hunting but rather guessing game, since intent is extremely hard to determine if a player, for example, is lurking while keeping up with the 5 posts/day.

TL;DR: A setup with a target to lynch, and tons of jesters, PLUS a cult mechanic (which messes with reads and scum hunting even more), on the top of a Multi-Lover mechanic, is extremely unstable, and does not reward scum hunting or reading players.
[QUOTE=Mike;812047]Ok the night 1 the is a special concert. Let me explaine it. When roles are given out before the game starts.the jk will pick a person playing. To proxy. Now if the JK gets lynched D1 the proxy will become JK that night. No jester converted n1. Now if the proxy is lynch they are lynched as town. Wins with town only. No jester converted N1. Now if a VT is lynched day 1. The proxy will become a jester N1. Now that convert counts as one of the 3 converts. Also if the proxy becomes the new JK. They count as one of the 3 max converts. The rest of the nights. The jk just picks who is converted. With a Max if 3 converts.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for clarifying.

Originally Posted by Gandalfr

this looks like Lady Gaga all over again

It is very similar, yes. Lady Gaga was hard for scum; this is even harder, and includes the dangerous Jester mechanic in a game where you must lynch a specific scum.

The main issue with this setup is that it does not reward scum hunting. On D1, JK is literally invulnerable, because of proxy. Although this gives a chance to scum, it also makes D1 scum hunting pretty bad, especially given the mandatory lynch (Which should be added in the setup, btw).
Plus, the Jester role is a dangerous one because obvious Jesters do not get lynched, and people acting normally don't either, OR get lynched for the wrong reasons. It means that good Jesters will act mildly scummy on purpose. And then comes in the WIFOM plays, which isn't scum hunting but rather guessing game, since intent is extremely hard to determine if a player, for example, is lurking while keeping up with the 5 posts/day.

TL;DR: A setup with a target to lynch, and tons of jesters, PLUS a cult mechanic (which messes with reads and scum hunting even more), on the top of a Multi-Lover mechanic, is extremely unstable, and does not reward scum hunting or reading players.

Originally Posted by Mike

Ok the night 1 the is a special concert. Let me explaine it. When roles are given out before the game starts.the jk will pick a person playing. To proxy. Now if the JK gets lynched D1 the proxy will become JK that night. No jester converted n1. Now if the proxy is lynch they are lynched as town. Wins with town only. No jester converted N1. Now if a VT is lynched day 1. The proxy will become a jester N1. Now that convert counts as one of the 3 converts. Also if the proxy becomes the new JK. They count as one of the 3 max converts. The rest of the nights. The jk just picks who is converted. With a Max if 3 converts.

Thank you for clarifying.

I'll begin with some questions for clarification.

[COLOR="#00FF00"]Can the ORIGINAL Jester King convert on N1?

What's the lynch type? (Majority, plurality, both, mandatory lynch or not)

I'd add "Play to your win condition at all times." to the rules.

Is playing in order to get converted, therefore turning the game into a confusing WIFOM fest, considered playing against your wincondition, by your setup's ideal?[/COLOR]


Now, onto the setup's nature. It is experimental style (only one scum, which is a cultist, who has a "transfer vest" on D1, who transforms people into jesters) for sure.
The question here is : [COLOR="#00FF00"]Is this setup playable, and is it [I]enjoyable?[/I][/COLOR]
Being converted to a Jester is really sad. You become a Lover AND a Jester. Plus, if your King dies, you are inevitably penalized by your King's misplays, which obviously sucks. This is the case with all Lovers, but THREE lovers on the same person is a bit much.
The Jester King himself is also very difficult to play as, since only ONE bad jester can ruin your play, without being able to do anything about it.

In its current state, I do not consider this setup balanced, given the number of strong instability and sudden/player-undeserved difficulty elements.

I'll begin with some questions for clarification.

Can the ORIGINAL Jester King convert on N1?

What's the lynch type? (Majority, plurality, both, mandatory lynch or not)

I'd add "Play to your win condition at all times." to the rules.

Is playing in order to get converted, therefore turning the game into a confusing WIFOM fest, considered playing against your wincondition, by your setup's ideal?


Now, onto the setup's nature. It is experimental style (only one scum, which is a cultist, who has a "transfer vest" on D1, who transforms people into jesters) for sure.
The question here is : Is this setup playable, and is it enjoyable?
Being converted to a Jester is really sad. You become a Lover AND a Jester. Plus, if your King dies, you are inevitably penalized by your King's misplays, which obviously sucks. This is the case with all Lovers, but THREE lovers on the same person is a bit much.
The Jester King himself is also very difficult to play as, since only ONE bad jester can ruin your play, without being able to do anything about it.

In its current state, I do not consider this setup balanced, given the number of strong instability and sudden/player-undeserved difficulty elements.

Will review this when possible

Will review this when possible