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    {Permanently Banned} ►►CurbYourNuts: 1-S2-1-12703791◄◄

    Account Name: CurbYourNuts
    Account ID: 1-S2-1-12703791
    In-Game Name: JEAN LUC FUCKERS

    Crimes Committed: Game-throwing

    Your Account Name: Exeter

    Summary: CurbYourNuts rolls Diva in slot 2. He reveals his Triad teammates on D1 as soon as the game starts.
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    {Ban List} ►►ultratic: 1-S2-1-6947855◄◄

    Account Name: ultratic
    Account ID: 1-S2-1-6947855
    In-Game Name: ||||||||

    Crimes Committed: Hate Speech

    Your Account Name: Exeter

    Summary: ultratic rolls Veteran in slot 5. He uses racist speech until his lynch on D2. As an experienced player, he should know that hate speech is not allowed, even as a strategy to bait visitors as Veteran.
  3. {Permanently Banned} ►►Jae Kong; TangoTuesday; CowboyVittlz; Macha; SupremeBeing; Chumbawamba; Arohaku◄◄

    Replay #1

    Account Name: Jae Kong
    Account ID: 1-S2-1-3370540
    In-Game Name: Xaiobo He

    Account Name: TangoTuesday
    Account ID: 1-S2-1-12914296
    In-Game Name: WHITE NATIONALIST

    Account Name: CowboyVittlz
    Account ID: 1-S2-1-3305887
    In-Game Name: Horny Fag Hotline

    Account Name: Macha
    Account ID: 1-S2-1-5459702
    In-Game Name: nigger

    Account Name: Arohaku
    Account ID: 1-S2-1-710896
    In-Game Name: name Bigger Nigga

    ***

    Replay #2

    Account Name: SupremeBeing
    Account ID: 1-S2-1-12671021
    In-Game Name: FREEDOM

    Account Name: Chumbawamba
    Account ID: 1-S2-1-352063
    In-Game Name: NIGGER FAGGOT

    Account Name: TangoTuesday
    Account ID: 1-S2-1-12914296
    In-Game Name: YOUR ARYAN MASTER

    Account Name: Macha
    Account ID: 1-S2-1-5459702
    In-Game Name: lynch all niggers

    Crimes Committed: Hate Speech

    Your Account Name: Exeter

    Summary: The reported players spam hate speech throughout both matches, disrupting the game and affecting the experience for others.

    Arohaku appears to be a legitimate player returning after 8 years based on profile and match history. He seems to be merely following the tune of the lobby, but plays normally otherwise. Perhaps a lighter punishment can be considered, to inform him that hate speech is no longer tolerated in this community.
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    [Mechanics] ►►Re: Compilation of Bugs as of 02/2023◄◄

    Added another bug: Music is often bugged and doesn't play.

    Wait it works fine for me. Removed.
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    ►►Re: *About the smurfs and ban evaders*◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by BusterCannon View Post
    yeah right. this is a well coordinated attack. they've been doing this for at least a couple weeks now. nothing is going to stop them from ruining multiple games to come. we are sitting ducks. they want us to be angry. AND IM FUCKIN ANGRY. I JUST DRANK AN ENTIRE BOTTLE OF MERLOT AN they a[r not gonna stop they are bitches. i will fight every single one of those fuckin, whatever the fuck fuckin man thi bullshit. i msick of this
    It happens from time to time.

    Quote Originally Posted by BusterCannon View Post
    Just fucking eliminate the ban list and let them play. So they don't ruin the game anymore. ... Either eliminate the ban list. Or grant them temporary gaming privileges to play the game. I think as long as people aren't hacking, they should be allowed to play.
    Removing bans would let them ruin games more than they already have. There is a reason why they were banned in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by BusterCannon View Post
    but yeah dark revenant oohhhhh ya hes gettin that money he dont give a shit.
    Lol money, sure.
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    [Mechanics] ►►Re: Compilation of Bugs as of 02/2023◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    Via ren: if lover is jailed, they auto love the jailor, but say n2 they still have a button
    Can confirm. Source: I'm the lover.

    Added to the list and attached replay.

    Are there patch notes for Lover somewhere?
    I seem to recall in the past they must pick a target on N1 or automatically die from heartbreak.
    Is this still how it works?
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    ►►Re: An Update to Player Reports / Clarification◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Etienne View Post
    I believe that there is a solution that benefits everyone. You’ve made some valid points about hacked saves and the quick-start exploit. First and foremost, there should be no punishment for anyone who leaves a save for those reasons. I think that’s something that we all can agree on and would not result in an excess workload for staff.
    Yup, agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Etienne View Post
    Now, I would like to address your point on judgement. Who decides what is a “bad” save? I think that after years of playing this mod there are some saves we can all agree are bad. The example you gave about witches and vigilantes is one. Taking this example, we can sort of create a blueprint for a “bad save”; which I will attempt to define:

    A bad save is a save that exists to be chaotic, or exists for the sole purpose of farming for a particular achievement. Any save that relies solely on guesswork, and not teamwork and coordination as facilitated by a variety of roles.
    I think this definition is still quite subjective. How do we determine if a setup is chaotic, or that it's intended to be? Furthermore, by the underlined statement, this means that 12 Citizens 3 Mafiosos would constitute as a bad setup, since it relies on guesswork ("reads") without any mechanism for confirmation ("leads"). However, Citizens vs Mafiosos is a valid basic setup in the IRL party game and on FM.

    I agree with the intention to define it, but I'm not sure we can realistically come up with a good, all-encompassing definition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Etienne View Post
    With “bad save” defined, I believe that intent should also be factored. For example, I believe that if a host makes an effort to warn people about their save while in the lobby, and people still choose to stay, and the host was not repicked, that host has a right to test out their save.
    Informing and persuading the lobby beforehand is a good approach to hosting unconventional setups. It's a good people management skill.

    However, I don't think it should be used as a justification for whether a host has the "right" to host an unconventional setup or not, in the context of reports.

    To paraphrase Ren's points:
    (1) Lobby leaders are not guaranteed the ability to host their own saves, they can still be repicked in game
    (2) Players who stay in a lobby do not necessarily consent to the leader's setup, because of point #1
    (3) Reports are usually only processed based on in-game events, so what happens in the lobby cannot be considered in reports (e.g. when establishing intent to host "bad" setups)
    There are exceptions to this rule, as you pointed out, but those are quite specific cases (e.g. identifying a smurf).

    I also want to add that, realistically:
    (4) Players may not see the lobby chat, as they might be alt-tabbed while waiting for a match to start
    (5) Players in a lobby come and go. The players that the host informs may not be the players that the match starts with

    Let's say lobby chat screenshots are accepted as evidence. How far back must you screenshot? From the start of the lobby? The SC2 chat log cuts off at a certain point, and doesn't include timestamps. Does this mean we need to screenshot every lobby on the off chance that evidence is required later?

    I don't think it's realistic. This is one of the reasons why reports are constrained to replays iirc, because they are automatically saved and have all the details from start to end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Etienne View Post
    That said, if a person simply leaves a save and does not provide any indication as to why, no “intent” can be determined and that person should not be penalized because they could be leaving for any number of reasons. In such instances, a number of replays should be required that shows a pattern of leaving games – which is another issue altogether, and not necessarily related to “bad saves”.
    Agreed. I believe this is the current thought process for leaving games halfway and afk-dying. Isolated cases are not punished, established trends are.
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    ►►Re: An Update to Player Reports / Clarification◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Etienne View Post
    I am the type of person who likes when things are set in stone because there can be no wiggle room. It has been my experience, not specifically with this community but with life in general, that when things are not set in stone, we get punishments for one group of people and free passes for others. I want to avoid that if at all possible, and get a clear answer on what is acceptable and what isn't.
    I am the same, and feel the same way. Often, I find grey areas exist because people want them to exist. The resulting flexibility is then often abused to give / gain preferential treatment.

    However, I think having a clear line is not always possible, especially when there's subjectivity involved. More on that below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Etienne View Post
    That said, I would like for this to be an open discussion where more admins/mods and other players drop their opinions. Maybe I am in the wrong? Maybe people ought to have the right to leave a save they don't like? I want to know what the community thinks.
    I think players should have the right to leave a setup they don't like. They should not be held hostage to setups they don't like, as they are required to spend time and effort on the match.

    That being said, if players were to leave en masse every match of their own accord, it would be detrimental to the community.
    So if leaving is allowed, it must only be allowed to some extent.

    Then the question is, to what extent?
    How many games can a person leave before being penalized? 10 games? Why not 20, or 5?
    For what reason? Only "shit saves", or any setup at all?
    If it's only "shit saves", then what are the objective metrics to determine whether a setup is a "shit save"?
    The list of questions can go on and on.

    Considering the above subjectivity, I think that the current approach of evaluating on a case-by-case basis is good. It's not perfect but it's realistic.

    * * * * *

    On the flip side, if it is decided that players do not have the right to leave setups they don't like, then the matter becomes more straightforward.
    Quitting is treated the same as role-quitting, and will face the same escalating punishment starting with an "On Hold", then WL and BL with subsequent reports.
    This approach certainly eliminates subjectivity and is much easier to enforce.

    However, I am rather loath to be forced to play setups that I don't enjoy, lest I face punishment. I would rather play something else, than risk wasting my time.

    It also gives too much power to hosts. So if someone were to host a hacked setup with invalid roles (killy/Law style), or obviously skewed setups (Spike style), or downright ridiculous setups like "10 Vigis 5 Witches", players must be forced to play or they will be penalized? Hell no.

    And if it's justifiable to leave certain setups, e.g. "10 Vigis 5 Witches", then we go back to the subjective questions above: how do we judge?
    The key difference in this case is, players are punished first based on a clearly stated rule, then appeals and discussions follow after.

    I'm pretty sure this will mean a lot more workload for both staff and the punished players in question.
    From what I understand, staff doesn't have the manpower to process large numbers of appeals, and many players are too lazy to bother with the report / appeal system.
    Players may be incorrectly punished, and simply leave the community altogether rather than bother defending themselves.

    Setting and enforcing a rule like this is probably lose-lose for most parties involved.
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    ►►Re: An Update to Player Reports / Clarification◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Etienne View Post
    I agree with you, however I did not use that exploit and I never have. I don't even know how to do it. If you watch the replay you will see that despite Renegade's best efforts to try and get me repicked, he failed. Then he left the game as he said he would do in discord, before he even joined the game.

    All I am asking of the admin is if this is acceptable behavior or not.
    I'm curious to know as well.

    Prior to the report on me, the consensus is, it's only an offense if players leave AFTER the setup phase (role quit).
    Leaving BEFORE does not constitute an offense as long as they don't try to incite other players to leave with them (leave train).

    The reason why I was originally penalized (later removed via appeal) is because I was leaving an abnormally large number of games.
    The reason why I left an abnormally large number of games is because of the quick start exploit.

    If I understand Djar correctly, once the quick start exploit is fixed, things would go back to normal (i.e. people don't usually leave large number of games ==> leaving not punishable).

    I'm interested to hear Djar's comment, but also worried any statement will set things in stone.
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    ►►Re: An Update to Player Reports / Clarification◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    But the fast start glitch is salt in the wound for me. It irrationally pisses me off to a point that I just leave.
    Probably because hosts who do this don't respect the repick system. They know that if they allow the lobby to repick, they would. So they abuse the exploit to get around it.
    They prioritize their wishes over those of 14 other players. Extremely self-centered behaviour. It would piss off anyone.
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    ►►Re: An Update to Player Reports / Clarification◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Etienne View Post
    If you read the discussion in this report, you would see that 4 out of 5 replays abused the quick start exploit.
    At the time, this exploit was being widely abused. That is why things escalated to the point where I simply left if the exploit is used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exeter350 View Post
    When playing with others, it is inevitable that we will sometimes play setups that we do not wish to.
    Most of the time, I respect that.
    What I cannot stand are hosts who abuse exploits to force their setups onto others with no respect for others' wishes, and then throw a tantrum when people leave.

    ...

    I have no doubt at all in my mind that if the lobbies had been aware and given time to react, they would've repicked Cult and Chaos.
    I reiterate my belief that the hosts know this, that is why they abuse the exploit to push their setups through.
    This is still a belief that I stand by.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJarJar View Post
    If we allowed people to leave every time they dislike the save with impunity then we could go hours and hours without a single game of mafia actually starting.
    However, I acknowledge the staff's comments about how this behaviour cannot be allowed, as it will be damaging to the community. Which is why I've stopped doing it.

    Anyway, I believe that once the quick start exploit gets patched, things should de-escalate.
    If a lobby is given sufficient time to repick an unconventional setup, and the majority chooses to play it, then players should abide by the outcome of that vote.
    On the flip side, if the majority chooses to play a conventional setup, then the minority should respect the wishes of the lobby.
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    [Mechanics] ►►Re: Compilation of Bugs as of 02/2023◄◄

    Just adding it to the list for easy reference for @Frinckles .
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    [Mechanics] ►►Re: Compilation of Bugs as of 02/2023◄◄

    I added a new bug and replay as reported by Mr. Mostache.

    Marshall can activate group lynch twice within a single day.
  14. Forum:Mafia Discussion

    Thread:More Role Ideas

    Thread Author:lawson

    Post Author:Exeter350

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    ►►Re: More Role Ideas◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by lawson View Post
    It really seems like you just shoot holes in my ideas solely to do just that. If you guys don't like the ideas, fine, but Frinckles said he wanted to add two new roles and one of them sounds like an AoE Escort? We need new mechanics, not the same mechanics rearranged. So I'm throwing NEW ideas out there.
    I disagreed for the reasons I explained above, not to be a contrarian.

    If Frink opens up discussion about his new role ideas, I would evaluate and voice my concerns too.
    In the past, I have already spoken at length about the new 2.0 roles.

    Don't take it personally.
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    ►►Re: The fast start glitch and ramming through griefer saves◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by lawson View Post
    The whole idea is to have a role combination or a role that you can't just add to your save, you can only get it from copying it. It makes it rare, which makes it interesting. It's like a rare Pokemon card or something. There's just something cool about it.
    Also, doesn't this mean your sense of satisfaction is derived from breaking the rules? If 2 Constables is changed to be allowed in normal setups, it wouldn't be rare, and therefore it wouldn't be interesting anymore.

    Meaning you'd need to find some new way to break the rules and chase a new high (like 3 Constables!!!).
  16. Forum:Mafia Discussion

    Thread:More Role Ideas

    Thread Author:lawson

    Post Author:Exeter350

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    ►►Re: More Role Ideas◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by lawson View Post
    2 triad vs 1 cryptologist... the triad already won dude. It's not supposed to be an easy role to play, you're supposed to use your brain.

    Ventriloquist is supposed to be fun man. Like hijacking a mayor and trying to get town to lynch the wrong person.

    How is Decoder useless? You're literally finding people's role claims. and other info they might not want public until they die.

    Fair point about Hacker. How often do you rewrite your lw though? The idea is to catch people slippin, change their LW and see if they realize it or not.
    An SK can kill one of the Triads at night and win the tie the next day.
    A Cryptologist has to rely on the Triads speaking the next day, which they can easily choose not to.

    I guess Ventriloquist could be fun, it's not much different from Silencer. But I see a lot of griefing potential with it, e.g. N-word spam.
    I'd rather have a neutral Silencer than a Ventriloquist for that reason.

    Decoder's ability is not good for a Town Investigative role that is supposed to find evils.
    Town should already keep a LW and post it when necessary. If they don't keep a LW, this ability doesn't do anything anyway.
    Evils would have a fake LW if they keep one at all.
    In other words, this ability is only useful for the fringe cases where a Town player writes a good LW, but doesn't want to post it.
    It still doesn't help find the evils.

    Regarding Hacker, I update my LW multiple times per day and night, and I always have it copied (because the shitty UI keeps deleting my text, especially when it's laggy).
    Even if the playerbase doesn't have the habit of doing this now, they will once the role is released. The ability's not difficult to overcome, just like Spy night chat.

    I think any ability that relies on players' carelessness is bad in general, because a little bit of vigilance will render the ability useless.
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    ►►Re: The fast start glitch and ramming through griefer saves◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by lawson View Post
    that made me laugh.

    I'm actually kind of upset that the mods sided with you on the double constable saves. You literally removed colors from the palette that save makers get to paint from. Your actions directly lead to a duller game.

    The whole idea is to have a role combination or a role that you can't just add to your save, you can only get it from copying it. It makes it rare, which makes it interesting. It's like a rare Pokemon card or something. There's just something cool about it.
    The word you're looking for is exclusivity.

    Your explanation can also be used to describe Stump saves, which is an offense. Maybe you'd like to protest against that too?

    Exclusivity is the motivation for "unique" and "whacky" things like having a fish picture for a name. Or a dynamic clock. Or a name that copies someone else's.
    Or hacking and being able to identify people's roles out of nowhere.
    Or using mod commands to make your avatar huge and start killing other units.

    These are all things that make people go "Wow! How did you do that?"
    It gives the user a sense of satisfaction from their perceived power that others don't have.
    But not everything that is flashy is good.

    Do you lack attention irl or something? I simply don't understand your prolonged attention seeking behaviour.
  18. Forum:Mafia Discussion

    Thread:More Role Ideas

    Thread Author:lawson

    Post Author:Exeter350

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    ►►Re: More Role Ideas◄◄

    1 is pointless. Any serious player would type something all players would say like "lw" to ensure a kill rather than risk missing a kill. Also, there's no way to control who will be the first one to say it. ALSO, it can be countered by simply not talking, which is devastating when it comes down to, say, 2 Triad vs 1 Cryptologist.

    2 is Silencer/Blackmailer with extra flavor. Since it's NE, it doesn't really add anything to the game (e.g. give evils something new to claim). Pretty sure the ventriloquist mechanic would either give the Ventriloquist away (personal observation: people are not good at changing the way they type) or used to grief (e.g. N-word spam to get the target lynched).

    3 is pointless as a Town Invest role, evils will keep a fake LW anyway.

    4 is easily countered by Ctrl+C. Pretty sure most players keep their LWs copied for easy pasting on trial or for PMing Town Gov. Even if the target is killed on the same night their LW is rewritten, it's pointless if the target has revealed their LW before. This ability is only useful in a fringe case where a player gets killed without publicly revealing their LW before... and even then, how would you know what role that player is, in order to create an appropriate LW?
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    [Mechanics] ►►Re: Compilation of Bugs as of 02/2023◄◄

    Sorry, yesterday was a busy day. I've updated the original post with a list of typos and inaccuracies.

    I also added a few new bugs to the list:
    * Judge can court twice in the same day
    * Standard 933 Mafia uses Ballot trial
    * Execution animation bugs

    Also added a replay for the Enchantress repel bug.
  20. Forum:Mafia Discussion

    Thread:Role Idea: Wiretapper

    Thread Author:lawson

    Post Author:Exeter350

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    ►►Re: Role Idea: Wiretapper◄◄

    I don't see any merit in bringing back the ability to read night chat. There's no "risk" since the community already has 10 years of experience with it, we already know what's wrong with it.

    My honest opinion is that reading night chat is detrimental to the game meta and shouldn't be brought back. It was removed for a reason.
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    [Mechanics] ►►Re: Compilation of Bugs as of 02/2023◄◄

    Yup ok, I'll do that tonight when I get home. I have a recent replay of the Enchantress bug.
  22. Forum:Mafia Discussion

    Thread:Role Idea: Wiretapper

    Thread Author:lawson

    Post Author:Exeter350

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    ►►Re: Role Idea: Wiretapper◄◄

    This ability is too OP for a NE. He would get all role claims and LWs as soon as Town Gov reveals and all players start PMing.
    It would work better as a NB who could decide which faction to side with (as opposed to a NE, who doesn't have the same flexibility).

    Additionally, even if it's NE, Mafia would STILL refrain from talking at night to avoid getting screwed over.
    Neutral Evil and Mafia are two different factions, they don't need to work together to win.

    Can't see this role working.
  23. Forum:Mafia Discussion

    Thread:Role Idea: Wiretapper

    Thread Author:lawson

    Post Author:Exeter350

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    ►►Re: Role Idea: Wiretapper◄◄

    At first I thought this role could be promising as a Neutral Benign, and was thinking of various strategies they could pull off.

    Then I realized it will just revert the game to 1.0 no night chat meta.
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    [Mechanics] ►►Compilation of Bugs as of 05/2023◄◄

    @Frinckles

    I compiled a list of bugs currently in the game, and sorted them into different priorities based on their impact on the game.

    1st Priority (High impact):
    * Quick start exploit (launch Chaos then switch to other setups for faster launch time)
    * Tie breaker bugs (Electro lose 1v1 against Town) : 1 2
    * Constable spawn issue (Constable spawns in TR / AR even tho Gov is excluded, often leads to 2 Town Govs) : 1
    * Judge cooldown bug (1 day between cooldown doesn't work) : 1
    * Judge can court twice in a single day (type -court then press the Court button)
    * Marshall can -lynch twice in a single day
    * Some Standard setups use Ballot Trial
    * Lover can love again after being jailed N1 and auto-loving the Jailor

    2nd Priority (Med impact):
    * Role card inaccurate info (e.g. SR role card says "drift 2x" but actual is 4x, see below)
    * Enchantress repel bug (Enchantress feedback is bugged where "You lured X and repelled Y" shows the Enchantress herself as "Y". In attached replay, Enchantress repels Constable N1 and Investigator N2, and both times the message shows she repelled herself)

    Low Priority (Low impact):
    * Role card typos (see below)
    * Execution animation glitches (see below)

    *****

    Role Card Inaccuracies:
    * Street Racer: "Special Attributes: You may go drifting 2 times" regardless of what the number of drifts is set to.
    * Diva/Actress : "Choose a target at night to copy and learn their role" regardless of whether "Learn's target role" is ON or OFF

    Role Card Typos:
    * Lover : "If either of you are killer" --> "If either of you are killed"
    * Electro: "You are not night Immune" --> "night immune"? Or perhaps this statement doesn't have to be there at all.
    * 49er : "You can not extort" --> "cannot"
    * Diva/Actress : "You will not learn your targets role" --> "target's role"
    * Diva/Actress : "...copy and learn their role, if you are killed at night..." --> "...copy and learn their role. If you are killed at night..."
    * Diva/Actress : "Your will learn your target's role" --> "You will learn"
    * Armorsmith : "choose one players" --> "choose one player"
    * Oracle : "who's role" --> "whose role"
    * Crier : "Can speak as Crier at day" --> "Can speak as Crier during the day"
    * Arsonist/Enchantress/Diva/Actress : New settings are in all caps, e.g. "Learn Target's Role - ON/OFF" instead of "Learn target's role - ON/OFF"

    Execution Animation Glitches:
    * Firing Squad : Marines shoot nearby units instead of the executed player
    * Mob : Players wander off in the middle of beating the executed player and don't return to their proper places afterwards
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    ►►Re: Hello, how to restore points from old account?◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    I'm not sure I can take command of anything in my life.
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    ►►Re: Hello, how to restore points from old account?◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Hope this helps. You can't click the "Help" button in a replay so I couldn't see how many points were there.
    You can, you just have to take command in the replay you have open.
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    ►►Exeter: 1-S2-1-5640160◄◄

    I would like to apply for a point request. Sent my PC for repairs a while ago and lost my progress.
  28. Forum:Mafia Discussion

    Thread:Role Idea: Poltergeist

    Thread Author:lawson

    Post Author:Exeter350

    Replies
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    ►►Re: Role Idea: Poltergeist◄◄

    Too OP, he basically becomes god when Town Gov reveals and everybody PMs their roles and LWs.
  29. Forum:Mafia Discussion

    Thread:Role Idea: Poltergeist

    Thread Author:lawson

    Post Author:Exeter350

    Replies
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    803

    ►►Re: Role Idea: Poltergeist◄◄

    Concept sounds good, but will be easily countered with PM confirmation. "What did I pm you yesterday?"
  30. Replies
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    ►►Re: The fast start glitch and ramming through griefer saves◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Space Milk View Post
    If people don't like it, they can repick.
    They don't have time to repick if the host uses the quick start exploit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Space Milk View Post
    They don't like how the democratic repick system doesn't vote """correctly""", so they are asking admins to intervene on their behalf.
    It's not a democratic system if players are not given enough time to vote. And yes, due to the quick start exploit, the system doesn't work correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Space Milk View Post
    I've never even seen people even complain about the 2 constable save and I've played it over a dozen times already completely unaware of its origins.
    Blatant subjective bias or social unawareness. Or perhaps, a habit of ignoring "haters" or "the opposition"?

    There are many complaints. I am aware that there are also some supporters. I make no claims as to what the "majority" is because that's stupid. Anyone can make such a baseless claim. Please show your statistical data instead of anecdotal observation which is more prone to bias.

    Quote Originally Posted by Space Milk View Post
    The only problem that exists here is that a couple of people with poor character want to force their opinions, their tastes, their idea of what is ethical and what isn't in a video game, onto the majority.
    Bank hackers, bug exploiters and rule breakers are paragons of virtue to you, are they?

    These are the people who abuse the quick start bug to circumvent the democratic repick system that you espouse.
  31. Replies
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    ►►Re: The fast start glitch and ramming through griefer saves◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by DJarJar View Post
    bad take all around

    1) even if you host your own save you can be repicked
    2) the bad actors here are using a glitch frinckles needs to patch where they can force through a bad save before there is enough time for people to repick
    3) even the customization that is actually ALLOWED by the save editor allows for plenty of shit saves so certainly anything NOT allowed by it is especially egregious
    4) A single SOTD might have actually been good and balanced - doesn't mean other people should be trusted with the power to make their own shit version of it
    5) mafia games are hard enough to get into at this point that "just play a different lobby" isn't viable anymore. There is one lobby most of the time. And it therefore needs to have a reasonably balanced save
    To be fair to Frink, this exploit existed in 1.0. However, your point that it needs to be fixed still stands.

    Think you and Auwt hit the nail on the head on everything.
  32. Replies
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    ►►Re: The fast start glitch and ramming through griefer saves◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by rumox View Post
    DR more or less approved these setups by adding them into the sotd feature. I think a better solution to your problem is to host your own games rather than have moderation step in for you.
    I assume by "these setups", you're referring to the 2 Mayors SOTD setup.
    It is true that there was such a setup, and that it was officially approved to be in the game.
    However, such a setup is not possible for a player to create without bankhacking.

    Perhaps you didn't read the thread in detail. I direct you to Auwt's clear summary of the issue:

    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    First thing first, having two mayors, or two GF, or any other unique role doubled is not permissible through the in-game editor.
    Which is raising a main issue; how does Law have this setup in the first place?
    Two possible answers:

    1- Bank Hacking (I won't elaborate here)
    2- Copied from another bank hacker

    Either way, Law should get rid of this setup before trouble starts to accumulate.
    If none of the above answers are correct, feel free to tell me how you achieved this, Law.

    Now, about the community statement.

    Hosting a save with Stump is prohibited, why? It could potentially be a lot of fun ? But it is forbidden, and you can't 'legally', so you don't.
    Hosting a save with Caroler/EB/Justice is not directly prohibited through the rules ? It could potentially be a lot of fun ? But it was slated to be an event role, and people having this role in their own setup had to remove it.
    Hosting a save with 2xMayor/2xGF/2xUnique is not directly prohibited through the rules ? It could potentially be a lot of fun ? But it is stated in the role description 'UNIQUE', so it is planned to be a 'UNIQUE' role, so this is NOT EVEN RULE-BREAKING, this is GAME-BREAKING.

    So as long as the word UNIQUE is present in the description, and as long as you are running save with multiple self-unique role(s), you are gamebreaking.
    Gamebreaking is an offense.
    There is a huge gap between having a fun/pleasant/new experience and having a save you are not supposed to have unless you made use of 3P, or copied someone who did so.
    People have been punished in the past for running Stump saves, and this situation is relatable.
    Therefore, I would advise you to remove those kind of setups, as fast as you can.
    It is also worth noting that SOTD is no longer in the game, and neither is the 2 Mayors setup.
  33. Replies
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    ►►Re: The fast start glitch and ramming through griefer saves◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    Not defending this exploit but if you want every game to be 9-3-3 or 8-4-2-1 you should be playing Town of Salem.
    The flexibility of SC2Mafia is unfortunately a double-edged sword. We get pretty fun unusual setups from time to time, but most of the time they're an unbalanced mess.
    I know various creators do their best to "balance" their setups... but more often than not, they cannot even explain how balance works in Mafia.
    How can they create balance when they don't even understand what it is??

    Why is calling out such poorly-made setups a bad thing? How can the creators improve if they refuse to listen to feedback?

    Or perhaps, they think they know better than everyone else? It's as if they are deaf to criticism.

    I don't think there's anything wrong with pointing out bad setups and preferring tried-and-tested formulas like 933 and 8331.

    @lawson Do you even know what's KPN?
  34. Replies
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    ►►Re: The fast start glitch and ramming through griefer saves◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    First thing first, having two mayors, or two GF, or any other unique role doubled is not permissible through the in-game editor.
    Which is raising a main issue; how does Law have this setup in the first place?
    Two possible answers:

    1- Bank Hacking (I won't elaborate here)
    2- Copied from another bank hacker

    Either way, Law should get rid of this setup before trouble starts to accumulate.
    If none of the above answers are correct, feel free to tell me how you achieved this, Law.

    Now, about the community statement.

    Hosting a save with Stump is prohibited, why? It could potentially be a lot of fun ? But it is forbidden, and you can't 'legally', so you don't.
    Hosting a save with Caroler/EB/Justice is not directly prohibited through the rules ? It could potentially be a lot of fun ? But it was slated to be an event role, and people having this role in their own setup had to remove it.
    Hosting a save with 2xMayor/2xGF/2xUnique is not directly prohibited through the rules ? It could potentially be a lot of fun ? But it is stated in the role description 'UNIQUE', so it is planned to be a 'UNIQUE' role, so this is NOT EVEN RULE-BREAKING, this is GAME-BREAKING.

    So as long as the word UNIQUE is present in the description, and as long as you are running save with multiple self-unique role(s), you are gamebreaking.
    Gamebreaking is an offense.
    There is a huge gap between having a fun/pleasant/new experience and having a save you are not supposed to have unless you made use of 3P, or copied someone who did so.
    People have been punished in the past for running Stump saves, and this situation is relatable.
    Therefore, I would advise you to remove those kind of setups, as fast as you can.
    Auwt, thanks for speaking up on this and acknowledging this issue.
    I hope more attention will be put to cracking down on such illegal setups.

    @lawson Would you like to enlighten us how you create these illegal setups? I seem to recall the last time I called you out on the invalid roles (Justice, Elector, etc), you claimed it was leftover data from map updates. What's your excuse now? Do tell us, I'm dying to find out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Space Milk View Post
    People are just trying to have fun. Chaos is fun. New, untested saves are fun. The new and unknown is fun. I LIKE Law's saves. I LIKE these weird crazy saves with two Constables, I actually thought the 2 constable save was a legal one until browsing this thread. And plenty of other people like them too.
    As Ren succinctly put it: shiny baubles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Space Milk View Post
    Or having to share a space with individuals with diagnosed personality disorders condescendingly telling other people what they can and cannot enjoy looking like this
    You're referring to yourself, Law and like-minded people telling others 933 and 8331 is boring and sucks, and "new, untested saves" are fun, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Space Milk View Post
    You need to lighten up Renegade. Maybe touch grass while you're at it.
    Ah, the good ol' "why so serious?" argument, as if that addresses anything (it doesn't).
    Maybe you'd like to come up with actual points, but that seems too much to expect.
  35. Replies
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    ►►Re: The fast start glitch and ramming through griefer saves◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by lawson View Post
    yeah I agree. This "Law" guy is a real jerk. I mean, who makes saves? WHO? How dare he. He should be banned for life.
    Way to deflect from the fact that you abuse the quick start exploit.

    It's OK to admit you're an asshole, you know. Pretending like you're not just makes you more of a loser.
  36. Forum:Mafia Discussion

    Thread:Soldato Buff Suggestion

    Thread Author:lawson

    Post Author:Exeter350

    Replies
    7
    Views
    884

    ►►Re: Soldato Buff Suggestion◄◄

    The idea needs some refining but yeah, I think the possible strategies you outlined above are pretty great. It would make Soldato a very versatile and viable role, but only 1 use.

    I think Mafia teammates shouldn't be given immunity. This gives rise to even more counterplay with BD, Escort/Liaison, Witch, etc who can outwit the Mafia into bombing their own teammates.

    Thematically, I'm not sure if Soldato should die in a shootout with a BG?
    Maybe BG protection simply blocks bombs, similar to Auditor and Cults "BG prevents conversion" mechanic.
    Not sure whether that's balanced when juxtaposed with MM, who would simply die in a shootout.
  37. Forum:Mafia Discussion

    Thread:Soldato Buff Suggestion

    Thread Author:lawson

    Post Author:Exeter350

    Replies
    7
    Views
    884

    ►►Re: Soldato Buff Suggestion◄◄

    Agreed on most of your points.

    Why not make it a night detonate with no delay then? You pick a target, and that night, anyone who visits the target dies from the bomb.

    It makes the killing ability viable, it allows night discussion, it can be countered with RB/jail.

    Basically a 1-use MM spree.
  38. Forum:Mafia Discussion

    Thread:Soldato Buff Suggestion

    Thread Author:lawson

    Post Author:Exeter350

    Replies
    7
    Views
    884

    ►►Re: Soldato Buff Suggestion◄◄

    Nice idea, but won't this be similar to Mass Murderer, except day action?

    Pros: Day action so not affected by RB or jail

    Cons: Can't change target at night, meaning night discussion is useless (any discussion is AFTER Soldato already picks a target). It's bad design for a team evil role.
    But I guess DF has the same issue, and can be circumvented by preemptive strategizing, e.g. "Save your bomb for gov reveal" or "Use your bomb on X tomorrow".

    Also, the strategy you outlined, "baiting player into a bombed player" also works with a 1 night delay. You plant the bomb first, THEN bait players onto the bombed player. But I concede it's much trickier with a delay.

    Personally supportive to see this change in a beta map.
  39. Replies
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    ►►Re: Extreme Policing by Staff of Legitimate Play◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Staff could also try and talk to Exeter and see why he left... and then use their brains & knowledge of people to see if it's applicable to many people. But even so, 1 player when there's probably 100 people who play mafia, at most, is A LOT.
    Dropped in to catch up on things and saw my name.

    I didn't leave, I'm taking a break. I still participate in the community Discord. And my reasons for the break is (afaik from quick skimming) different from what's being discussed here.

    Tl;Dr: Quality of saves has gone down the drain and I do not want to be held hostage to setups that waste my time. I'd rather spend my time on things that I actually enjoy.

    For the record I understand where staff is coming from on the frequent leaving issue. "Shit save" is a common complaint and what constitutes one differs by person. If everybody started quitting over it, we would never get a game going.
  40. Forum:Punished Players & Appeals

    Thread:Exeter: 1-S2-1-5640160

    Thread Author:Killy

    Post Author:Exeter350

    Replies
    13
    Views
    1,860

    {Watch List} ►►Re: Exeter: 1-S2-1-5640160◄◄

    I went to review the "additional records" matches that killy quoted in his report.

    Since he did not attach replays for those, please find attached in this post.

    You will notice that out of the 3 "additional records" he quoted, 2 of them involve Hotrian abusing the instant start exploit to launch Chaos mode.
    In total, out of the 5 matches quoted in this report, 4 involve the host abusing the instant start exploit.

    I hope you see a pattern here.
    Generally, I leave the game when (1) I do not wish to play the setup being loaded, and more importantly (2) when the lobby is not given a chance to repick.

    When playing with others, it is inevitable that we will sometimes play setups that we do not wish to.
    Most of the time, I respect that.
    What I cannot stand are hosts who abuse exploits to force their setups onto others with no respect for others' wishes, and then throw a tantrum when people leave.

    Once you fix the instant launch exploit, hosts will no longer be able to force their setups on unwitting lobbies.
    This is similar to the hacked setup issue, which was resolved by removing incomplete roles from the map entirely, preventing bankhackers from adding invalid roles to their setups.

    I have no doubt at all in my mind that if the lobbies had been aware and given time to react, they would've repicked Cult and Chaos.
    I reiterate my belief that the hosts know this, that is why they abuse the exploit to push their setups through.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exeter350 View Post
    Considering how unpopular Cult is (to the point where they are removed from default setups), it is likely that the Cult setup would've been repicked if the setup had been launched normally.
    That people left en masse afterwards could be a reflection of this, and not the fact that 1 player left.
    In other words, "If I had time to repick, I would have".
    Please fix the instant launch exploit and take away these hosts' ability to force their choice of setups onto others.

    Thank you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Killy View Post
    (II) additional records:

    Spoiler : it was 'dolus eventualis' :


    (3) another different game, 05/25/22 same date with replay(2),
    Name: (3) 052522 2.jpg
Views: 14
Size: 401.1 KB
    (4) another different game, 05/09/22
    Name: (4) 050922 1.jpg
Views: 13
Size: 401.2 KB
    (5) another different game, 05/09/22
    Name: (5)050922 2.jpg
Views: 10
Size: 395.6 KB

    replay(1) is from 05/15/22
    replay(2) is from 05/25/22

    All of those events took place in May.
    The player is quitting at the beginning of the name selections or in the first 10 seconds of the D1.

    ---Hey. It might even be that his toaster made the circuit breaker trip, right?
    In that case, there should be a "waiting for player" window pop-up.
    But no window popup. It was due to F10 Alt-QQ (surreNder command), more than by accidents.

    This player quits games at 00:27~00:29 timing.
    "00:28" corresponds to "at the beginning of the name selection" when hosts use the quick setup technic (with Chaos mode).
    (I confirmed Hotrian was using Chaos mode with quick setup)

    Hotrian is a good player. His hosting is also legit.
    Is this player not a big fan of Hotrian hosting games? (or Chaos setup)

    There was willful negligence for those leave trains result of his quitting.
  41. Forum:Punished Players & Appeals

    Thread:Exeter: 1-S2-1-5640160

    Thread Author:Killy

    Post Author:Exeter350

    Replies
    13
    Views
    1,860

    {Watch List} ►►Re: Exeter: 1-S2-1-5640160◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by DJarJar View Post
    If we allowed people to leave every time they dislike the save with impunity then we could go hours and hours without a single game of mafia actually starting. In the precedent we've allowed it when the save is clearly awful. However it appears that you are trying to stretch that limit and leave anything you dislike at all.
    With 5 instances shown and you basically saying you're going to keep doing it, I don't think I can grant an appeal.

    So, i mean yes, we do expect you to play even if you don't love the setup. You can leave if the setup is like griefing levels of bad.

    Now, you do have a good point about the instant start exploit making it difficult to repick. This is something on frinckles' todo list. Since that exploit is involved and you otherwise had a clean history, I think we can decrease the punishment to On Hold if you can agree to stop constantly leaving games.

    Also, I would point out that you can always start your own lobbies to ensure that the setup you like is at least the first one considered.
    Thank you for your consideration.

    I agree.

    Also thank you for acknowledging and working on the instant start exploit.

    I believe hosts of Cult and Chaos setups know their unpopularity, that is why they rely on instant launches to push their setup through before they can be repicked.

    I firmly believe that if lobbies had the chance to repick, they would have. However, they were not given a fair chance to do so.

    In the meantime, while the instant start exploit is being fixed, I agree to stay for such games as a compromise.

    But let's be clear that this exploit cannot continue to be left unfixed indefinitely. It is not fair for players to be held hostage to setups that did not have a proper chance to be repicked.

    Thank you.
  42. Forum:Punished Players & Appeals

    Thread:Exeter: 1-S2-1-5640160

    Thread Author:Killy

    Post Author:Exeter350

    Replies
    13
    Views
    1,860

    {Watch List} ►►Re: Exeter: 1-S2-1-5640160◄◄

    I would like to appeal this report.

    It is established that players have the right to choose what setup they wish to play, as long as they don't incite others to leave with them.

    I didn't want to play a Chaos or Cult setup, so I voted to repick.
    Failing that, I chose to leave, as I do not want to invest 45 mins into a game I do not enjoy.
    However, I respect that others wished to go ahead, so I did not attempt to convince others to leave with me.

    Based on my knowledge, I am not breaking any rules in doing so.


    Quote Originally Posted by MrMostache View Post
    While it's true that Exeter hasn't encouraged people to leave the game directly, the amount of games he have done this recently is very large.
    And while we don't fault people for leaving "troll" saves, none of the shown saves here is considered trolly. It seems that Exeter has set his standard of what a good save is really high. We don't want everyone to leave games just because they are not happy about the chosen setup.
    I would like to ask:
    (1) Do players have the right to choose what setup they wish to spend 45 mins on?

    (2) What is your proposed alternative to the established ruling on this issue (that it is OK to leave a setup as long as we do not incite others to do so)?
    Am I expected to invest 45 mins into a setup that I am strongly opposed to?
    Am I forced to play a match I have no interest in playing, otherwise I will be penalized?

    I understand your concern that you do not wish to encourage people to leave games just because they are not happy about the setup.
    But I believe penalizing leavers (before the setup is launched) is not a realistic solution.
    Also, it goes against the established ruling on this issue.

    Please clarify. Thank you.

    *

    Kindly also note:
    In both replays, the setups had a speeded up launch.
    It is possible to quickly launch a setup by first launching Chaos, then loading a Custom save.
    With this method, lobbies often do not have time to react and repick.

    Considering how unpopular Cult is (to the point where they are removed from default setups), it is likely that the Cult setup would've been repicked if the setup had been launched normally.
    That people left en masse afterwards could be a reflection of this, and not the fact that 1 player left.
    In other words, "If I had time to repick, I would have".

    The ability to quickly launch setups is a huge problem that clouds issues such as this report.
  43. Forum:Forum Mafia Discussion

    Thread:Hello everyone

    Thread Author:Norwee

    Post Author:Exeter350

    Replies
    20
    Views
    2,003

    ►►Re: Hello everyone◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Sounds about right. Which leads me to my next question...

    WHY DOES THIS REALITY HAVE SO MANY DIFFERENT WORDS TO EXPRESS IT
    If you're not into DP, but you're into pp, you can just say "u have a beautiful pp".
  44. Forum:Research and Development

    Thread:Stalker

    Thread Author:ChannelMiner

    Post Author:Exeter350

    Replies
    4
    Views
    783

    [New Role] ►►Re: Stalker◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by DJarJar View Post
    Damn that is one ridiculously powerful role. Might even be more powerful than a hacker that gets all roles
    It's not hacking, it's a legitimate role.

    -prefer stalker
  45. Forum:Punished Players & Appeals

    Thread:killy: 1-S2-1-5387491

    Thread Author:Exeter350

    Post Author:Exeter350

    Replies
    14
    Views
    1,536

    {Watch List} ►►Re: killy: 1-S2-1-5387491◄◄

    Hi Killy,

    My viewpoint is same as Auwt's, who succinctly summarized the points I wanted to say.

    On top of that, I just wanted to clarify some things:

    (1) This report is nothing personal.
    I reported other players for other hacked setups too.
    I saw a problem in the community and wanted to correct it.

    * * * * *

    (2) You described my report as "malicious".
    I disagree. I added my personal evaluation of the situation because there is room for subjectivity, and I didn't want it to cloud the judgement of this report.

    For instance, you might've appealed by saying running this setup was unintentional (which you did).
    Channel already presented this defense in Discord, so it was necessary for me to debunk it in my report.

    I believe that my evaluation (sequence of events) was largely factual and objective.

    * * * * *

    (3) You said that I was wrong in saying you bankhacked to create your setups.
    I concede that your setups were saved from others (Frinckles, Tsarthus).
    However, I stand by my point that the original setup from Tsarthus is bankhacked (whether by him or another).

    And I would not accuse Frinckles the developer of bankhacking.
    Nonetheless, I recall that during Mafia 2.0 Beta when Caroler was first introduced, players were originally able to -save Caroler.
    Frinckles quickly implemented a system to prevent players from doing that.
    In other words, he did not intend or want players to be able to -save Caroler setups.

    That, and the fact that Caroler is excluded from selectable roles in setup creation, makes it clear to me that Caroler is not intended to be part of regular setups.

    However, the ruling for this issue is that Caroler / Easter Bunny is "tolerated" since they are stable roles and in Chaos Mode circulation, and I respect that decision.

    * * * * *

    (4) You said that I played other setups with hacked roles in the past, e.g. Elector, Justice, etc.
    I assume you are pointing out my inconsistency that I did not report those occasions.

    However, I stated in my report that my intention is to curb the influx of hacked setups.
    In other words, I am referring to those same occasions where you saw me play setups with Elector, Justice, etc.
    Therefore, there is no inconsistency.
    I noticed this problem early on, and over time was frustrated to the point where I was finally motivated to take action.

    * * * * *

    Closing Note:
    I heard that the map has been modified to prevent setups with invalid roles from starting.
    In other words, this problem of invalid roles is mechanically impossible to occur in the future.

    Perhaps this is the staff / developer's long-term solution to the hacked setups problem.

    If so, I hope you will understand the necessity and importance of this report.
    Because of such reports and the resulting discussions, the staff & developer implemented a solution to a problem plaguing the community.
  46. Forum:Mafia Discussion

    Thread:Proposed Chaos Mode Addition

    Thread Author:lawson

    Post Author:Exeter350

    Replies
    8
    Views
    2,463

    ►►Re: Proposed Chaos Mode Addition◄◄

    Next week's episode: "How I crafted a balanced Stump-Scumbag save, and how you can host it with -save!"

    Quote Originally Posted by lawson View Post
    So there was a period of a couple weeks where some magical person released Elector back into the community
    Why so modest? We know you hacked your bank to create these setups.

    Frink's command only lets you export your bank data. To the average Joe, the output would just be gibberish strings of numbers.

    You claim that you got Elector in your setup after your bank got "messed up" during an update, but lol, you sure know how to interpret the bank file.


    Why we're not penalizing you for (1) bank hacking, (2) circulating hacked setups and (3) being blatantly unrepentant is beyond me.
  47. Forum:Punished Players & Appeals

    Thread:killy: 1-S2-1-5387491

    Thread Author:Exeter350

    Post Author:Exeter350

    Replies
    14
    Views
    1,536

    {Watch List} ►►killy: 1-S2-1-5387491◄◄

    Account Name: killy
    Account ID: 1-S2-1-5387491
    In-Game Name: Nico the Weak

    Crimes Committed: Bank Hacking / Griefing (hosting a hacked setup)

    Your Account Name: Exeter

    Summary:
    killy is lobby host.

    Upon game start, killy loads a standard 8331 Triad setup.
    He then prefers a number of invalid roles ("Justice", "townnull", "townnulltwo", "Elector") which would not normally be in the game unless the host illegally hacks their bank.

    Still with the 8331 Triad setup loaded, killy then asks the lobby "Role request please".
    After adjusting some sliders for the requested roles, killy switches to his Save Slot 2, which has the following role list:

    1. Easter Bunny*
    2. Townnull*
    3. Townnull*
    4. Townnulltwo*
    5. Townnulltwo*
    6. Justice*
    7. Justice*
    8. Arsonist
    9. Jester
    10. Jester
    11. Citizen
    12. Any Random
    13. Neutral Killing
    14. Neutral Random
    15. Elector*

    * Roles marked with asterisks are roles that cannot normally be added to a setup without bankhacking.

    The replay owner quits the game on D1 and the replay ends here.

    Based on second hand accounts, the rest of the lobby soon followed, resulting in a "A veritable Armageddon decimated the town last night" message on D2.

    Additionally, as seen on Blizzard Match History, the match duration is 11:08 minutes, which is far shorter than the average Mafia game.

    * * * * *

    Additional Information:
    I believe this incident is a premediated act, for the following reasons:

    A hacked setup cannot be created on the spot, it requires external tools. That killy has the hacked setup ready in Save Slot 2 indicates prior preparation and intention to host it.

    Additionally, killy prefers the invalid roles before he loads the hacked setup. Even though he asks for role requests for his 8331 Triad setup and makes a show of adjusting weight sliders, I believe that that is only a charade meant to throw off any potential reports and reviewers. The sequence of events tells us that killy had the intention to host his hacked setup from the beginning.

    Second hand accounts tell that killy (1) later claims that he had no intention of hosting it and that it was an accident, and (2) killy did not hack his bank but copied it from a bankhacker.

    (1) As explained above, I believe the sequence of events clearly showcase killy's premediated intention to host the hacked save. For that reason I believe that his claim that it was an accident is a lie.

    (2) Regardless of where the hacked setup originated from, I believe hosting a hacked setup is grounds for punishment by itself, such as in the case of Stumpbag setups. However, if killy truly got it from a bankhacker, he should have the social decency to provide the report so that appropriate action can be taken against the original bankhacker as well.

    * * * * *

    Closing Note:
    I have noticed a recent influx of hacked setups, with roles that are not usually possible to add to setups such as Elector, Justice, Caroler, Easter Bunny, townnull, townnulltwo.

    These setups usually cause great dissatisfaction amongst the player base, often causing players to quit en masse. I believe this is a massive waste of people's time and energy. I received this replay from one such disgruntled member of the community, and am currently awaiting another replay from another frustrated community member, both of whom do not wish to encounter such setups again.

    I am filing this report in the hopes that such behaviour will be penalized, thus deterring further occurrences.
  48. [Mechanics] ►►Re: Tiebreaker possibly not working, game stopped working night 13 into day 14.◄◄

    Different but similar problem:

    The game came down to two Towns, one Judge and one Electromaniac.

    Town decided to stall to force secret ballot and win the tie.

    However, the secret ballot froze on Day 9, preventing the game from concluding.
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    [Role Change] ►►Re: Poisoner and Electromaniac need Night Immunity◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by Eragonball View Post
    You don't see the threat because you look at NKs without the whole game itself.
    As I state in my first post, if NK die, the game lose its most important comeback mechanic and get slower.

    Poisonner and electromaniac don't need NI because they're hard, they need it because the game need them.
    It's not even a big deal, most of the time they'll get lynched the following day. UNLESS mafia/town is loosing and know they need them to kill, which is why they need NI.
    Man's speaking sense. I would say NKs having NI is integral to ensuring the game flows smoothly. Even before Poisoner and Electro, we can already see this effect when NKs get lynched early game. The game slows to a crawl and becomes much harder for the remaining evils.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eragonball View Post
    It would be better for the game if they wouldn't kill NI and be NI if you rly wish so.
    They need NI.
    @Frinckles These can be implemented as role settings, and would be a great middle ground.

    NI - ON/OFF
    Ignores immunity - ON/OFF

    With the wide variety of setups possible, you can leave it to individual hosts to balance their saves.
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    ►►Re: WHY ARE THERE 15 FUCKING MAFIA LOBBIES?!?!?!◄◄

    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    you'd have to be insane to do all of that which pretty much explains everything
    +1

    Didn't he try to get SC2 Mafia taken down years ago by quoting Blizzard's ToS on Blizzard forums, and a bunch of SC2Maf staff went to answer him there?

    What a crazy weirdo.
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