[QUOTE=Fire Lord Slaolzin;473752]I disagree.
Strictly speaking from an objective standpoint, looking at your choice of action combined with your day chat performance, I can personally award you 4th best Town. I could see Roku maybe doing 3rd best, but I doubt higher than that. Definitely not first best, as we agreed on Ozymandias.
As far as Night Actions go.
Night 1 you chose Yayap who got Vigilante
Night 2 you chose Crimson who got Detective
Night 3 you guarded Zack
Night 4 you chose Ozymandias
Night 5 you chose Rumpel
Night 6 you rotted in Jail
Nigh 5 and 6 can easily be labeled as your own fault and a horrible decision. Now, obviously you can't know, and you can't be in control of what role they got. However, the choice of Rumpel on the night that you did was the worst possible night as it was a guaranteed Jailing opportunity.
Night 4 is equally as useless. Again, you are not in control of the roles, but this night gained you no points. At most a 0 in the +/- of your performance. If we were to get into the valuing of what others might have been worth we could give this a negative as it gave up an oppurunity to get something in the hunt to get something that got nearly nothing.
Night 3 was a good choice, especially with the high likely hood that Aang looked like he was going to go up in flames. Had this guard gone through it would have been the most influential single night action. Sadly, the value of the choice did not net the desired result, wasting an overall night. WIFOMing the Mafia, and choosing to take a different action would have been better, and especially an action of Meeting with Aang would have been amazing. You would have made a link between Town's 2 best roles, and given him a permanent vest. Like night 4, still a good overall choice of action, but clearly a less than optimal outcome.
Night 2 was your best action by far. Crimson performed well, being one of the 3 people I have above you in the Town rankings. You may argue that "whatever Crimson did was because of me", and while you have grounds to do so you do not get ALL of the points, but an assist in what he would perform in.
Night 1 was basically terrible. It was exciting to see a second Vigilante come out of the game, and on night 1 no less. However Yayap's choice in kills would see 1 Truthseer, 1 Doctor, Herself, and Aang all go down because of her decisions. Taking out Azula was worthwhile, but not at a 4 Power Role to 1 Scum ratio. Again, you do not get all of the credit for Crimson's success, so you do not get all of the credit for Yayap's shooting the town in the foot.... as well as other body parts.
Simple analysis of your night performance say that of the 6 nights you were alive only 1 was a truly GOOD result.
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Night 1: Bad[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#00FF00"]Night 2: Good[/COLOR]
[COLOR="#FFFF00"]Night 3: Neutral that was still a good choice.
Night 4: Neutral that was probably a bad choice.[/COLOR]#
[COLOR="#FF0000"]Night 5: Bad
Night 6: Bad[/COLOR]*
#You are not in control of the roles, but Ozy already trusted you as far as the night 4 chat looked, and so using a night on him wasted a potential connection. Confirmation is good, but claiming Iroh can easily be countered in day chat whenever you would be lynched on. Any single person you had met could confirm you.
*wouldn't normally factor, but you directly gave them the info that lead to it, so maybe count it like a half.
Then, when day chat comes into the consideration you are correct to say to Roku that amount of posts != quality of posts, but you did not at any real point take a true leadership position. Both Ozymandius and Gerik did this easily and with obvious intent. Both lead early with sheer posting, and would maintain their impact. You are a good enough player to have attained the day control, you did it in FM 18, but you did not do it here. The real shame here is that your role was mainly built around revealing yourself. As can be seen, the roles that come into the game are not necessarily going to break it, and acting on night 8 of a 10 day game will get MAYBE 1 useless action out of people, but the value of your role came form confirmation of yourself. Confirmation of one's self is a mighty powerful tool in the hands of a good player, and you did not optimize it.[/QUOTE]
this now seems more like you're deliberately trying to discredit all my night actions, so i won't go into much detail
saying i made a bad action because the vigi failed is like saying the host made town weaker by putting a vigi in. so yes i might aswell blame you for the kills. but in fact there's only one person to blame, the vigi self. if at all i [I]indirectly[/I] caused it. but like you're said, i'm not in control. for me it was just giving a powerful TPR to a smart person (as i knew it was clem)
every action that lead to giving out a new TPR is a good action. cuz more TPR = better in general
thus all my actions were good, from the think process behind it aswell as the result. only rumpel, here i made a mistake in think process thinking he isn't mafia. but the result was still beneficial in the long run, directly leading to his reveal. (also n3 had a neutral result, but good thinking because it would have made sense to burn)
i'm also not taking credit for ika's good actions. i'm just taking credit for making a detective, who in average finds let's say 2 scums. so my credit is to have made a det and to have averagely found 2 scums. so i am able to take credit for this average 2 scums, no matter what happens. if he finds more, he did good, if less, he did bad, but it has nothing to do with my own oerformance
day control = death. not good if you're iroh
fm 18 i didnt really take leader position, much more i convinced the mayor who was the leader to follow my leads
and also i disagree about iroh and aang being a role that are built to reveal. imo the whole goal is much more to stay hidden. thus try not to target any scum. get as many prs as possible before you're revealed and die. confirm to only townies so they know youre confirmed and follow you [I]without[/I] having to reveal. get some secret society this way
if you want someone to reveal in day chat that'd be mayor. had i done this, i'd be abusing all my powers and possibilities just to get an auto confirmable role
you can see how much benefit aang was in this game, who did reveal
also i wonder who is your 3rd best then, assuming ika is your 2nd
this now seems more like you're deliberately trying to discredit all my night actions, so i won't go into much detailI disagree.
Strictly speaking from an objective standpoint, looking at your choice of action combined with your day chat performance, I can personally award you 4th best Town. I could see Roku maybe doing 3rd best, but I doubt higher than that. Definitely not first best, as we agreed on Ozymandias.
As far as Night Actions go.
Night 1 you chose Yayap who got Vigilante
Night 2 you chose Crimson who got Detective
Night 3 you guarded Zack
Night 4 you chose Ozymandias
Night 5 you chose Rumpel
Night 6 you rotted in Jail
Nigh 5 and 6 can easily be labeled as your own fault and a horrible decision. Now, obviously you can't know, and you can't be in control of what role they got. However, the choice of Rumpel on the night that you did was the worst possible night as it was a guaranteed Jailing opportunity.
Night 4 is equally as useless. Again, you are not in control of the roles, but this night gained you no points. At most a 0 in the +/- of your performance. If we were to get into the valuing of what others might have been worth we could give this a negative as it gave up an oppurunity to get something in the hunt to get something that got nearly nothing.
Night 3 was a good choice, especially with the high likely hood that Aang looked like he was going to go up in flames. Had this guard gone through it would have been the most influential single night action. Sadly, the value of the choice did not net the desired result, wasting an overall night. WIFOMing the Mafia, and choosing to take a different action would have been better, and especially an action of Meeting with Aang would have been amazing. You would have made a link between Town's 2 best roles, and given him a permanent vest. Like night 4, still a good overall choice of action, but clearly a less than optimal outcome.
Night 2 was your best action by far. Crimson performed well, being one of the 3 people I have above you in the Town rankings. You may argue that "whatever Crimson did was because of me", and while you have grounds to do so you do not get ALL of the points, but an assist in what he would perform in.
Night 1 was basically terrible. It was exciting to see a second Vigilante come out of the game, and on night 1 no less. However Yayap's choice in kills would see 1 Truthseer, 1 Doctor, Herself, and Aang all go down because of her decisions. Taking out Azula was worthwhile, but not at a 4 Power Role to 1 Scum ratio. Again, you do not get all of the credit for Crimson's success, so you do not get all of the credit for Yayap's shooting the town in the foot.... as well as other body parts.
Simple analysis of your night performance say that of the 6 nights you were alive only 1 was a truly GOOD result.
Night 1: Bad
Night 2: Good
Night 3: Neutral that was still a good choice.
Night 4: Neutral that was probably a bad choice.#
Night 5: Bad
Night 6: Bad*
#You are not in control of the roles, but Ozy already trusted you as far as the night 4 chat looked, and so using a night on him wasted a potential connection. Confirmation is good, but claiming Iroh can easily be countered in day chat whenever you would be lynched on. Any single person you had met could confirm you.
*wouldn't normally factor, but you directly gave them the info that lead to it, so maybe count it like a half.
Then, when day chat comes into the consideration you are correct to say to Roku that amount of posts != quality of posts, but you did not at any real point take a true leadership position. Both Ozymandius and Gerik did this easily and with obvious intent. Both lead early with sheer posting, and would maintain their impact. You are a good enough player to have attained the day control, you did it in FM 18, but you did not do it here. The real shame here is that your role was mainly built around revealing yourself. As can be seen, the roles that come into the game are not necessarily going to break it, and acting on night 8 of a 10 day game will get MAYBE 1 useless action out of people, but the value of your role came form confirmation of yourself. Confirmation of one's self is a mighty powerful tool in the hands of a good player, and you did not optimize it.
saying i made a bad action because the vigi failed is like saying the host made town weaker by putting a vigi in. so yes i might aswell blame you for the kills. but in fact there's only one person to blame, the vigi self. if at all i indirectly caused it. but like you're said, i'm not in control. for me it was just giving a powerful TPR to a smart person (as i knew it was clem)
every action that lead to giving out a new TPR is a good action. cuz more TPR = better in general
thus all my actions were good, from the think process behind it aswell as the result. only rumpel, here i made a mistake in think process thinking he isn't mafia. but the result was still beneficial in the long run, directly leading to his reveal. (also n3 had a neutral result, but good thinking because it would have made sense to burn)
i'm also not taking credit for ika's good actions. i'm just taking credit for making a detective, who in average finds let's say 2 scums. so my credit is to have made a det and to have averagely found 2 scums. so i am able to take credit for this average 2 scums, no matter what happens. if he finds more, he did good, if less, he did bad, but it has nothing to do with my own oerformance
day control = death. not good if you're iroh
fm 18 i didnt really take leader position, much more i convinced the mayor who was the leader to follow my leads
and also i disagree about iroh and aang being a role that are built to reveal. imo the whole goal is much more to stay hidden. thus try not to target any scum. get as many prs as possible before you're revealed and die. confirm to only townies so they know youre confirmed and follow you without having to reveal. get some secret society this way
if you want someone to reveal in day chat that'd be mayor. had i done this, i'd be abusing all my powers and possibilities just to get an auto confirmable role
you can see how much benefit aang was in this game, who did reveal
also i wonder who is your 3rd best then, assuming ika is your 2nd