Remove Both Prefer and Blacklist

You know Prefer and Blacklist grants you the ability of getting the role you want. Because of that most of the people get the roles such as doctor bodyguard etc etc (note its not like that i don t like doctor and bodyguard i love playing them and they are extremly powerful roles but most of the player hates them)... So in my opinion they should be removed as like the kicking command removed it s useless and inbalance.

When there are 20 k points player in a lobby, and there is let s say confirmed judge, 15/10 players would want to play judge but that 20k pointed player just prefers it and blacklist other high chance roles and gets judge.

In my opinion it should be removed so that way every player will have the same chance of getting a role and it'll decrease the amount of role quits, role crying etc...

The benefit of prefer is to keep people playing, to get that perk. Is the number of people role quitting greater than those who wouldnt play the game if there weren't prefers?

ME AGREEE

i agree

If a player doesn't enjoys playing with power and such he can just leave playing since he doesn't fully enjoys. For 20k points colored writing is just fine. If there had to be something that gives pwoer to players, then keep blacklist and remove prefer. Prefer is just too ridicilous to get roles. Even the person who prefers a role doesn't actually know how to play it right, he can just play and make worse things than other players. Or the person who plays that role just prefers and plays it. He just wins such as marshall players who lynch 3-4 non-town player in 1 day. You wheter should nerf Prefer or remove prefer. Blacklist can still stay but in my opinion it should be nerfed as well to 5 instead of 10.

As someone who enjoys -blacklist and -prefer a lot, I feel biased as I write about this.

With that said, I think -blacklist and -prefer should stay in the game. I felt motivated to get 10k and 20k points because I wanted to get these abilities. Reaching those milestones felt really gratifiying, and I felt like my time playing Mafia had paid off. Taking away these abilities would take away a source of motivation for players to keep playing the game.

It might be good to reduce the -blacklist and -prefer cap from 10 to 5 roles. I support that change.

am i the only one here who get 20k for colored writing ? x.x

it adds meta to the games. less meta = more fun.

Prefer/Blacklist is the only reason I play. I'm sure there are others like myself. Removing it would be hurting your veteran community.

Hybrid has a point that prefer and blacklist are kind of OP at the moment, but I wouldn't go as far as to say they should be removed. I for once almost never prefered killing roles (unless I needed them for the role win) - most of the time I prefered Bus Driver, Survivor and Witch.

My opinion is - keep blacklist with 10 max role blacklisted, but change prefer to 3 roles max. That way New players will still enjoy the fun of blacklist AND old players / donators will enjoy prefer, but have to think which 3 roles to prefer in case of multiple 20k ppl in the lobby.

Like others said above - reaching the point of blacklisting and prefering roles is what keeps about 50% of the mafia community still playing - people want to enjoy the roles they want. Now I don't know how many are donating, but even so - my final opinion is - don't remove them but change the max number of roles that one can prefer per game.

Peace, brothers and sisters!

In my opinion, -prefer and -blacklist aren't pros only.
I can't remember exactly now, but i think i lynched Mafia only depending on info of only 1 20j+ and he was Mafia other game. That happened in EU and NA servers once.

Honestly there is another side to this you guys are missing. The truth is that your night action should never be considered your only ability. Your ability to speak and vote is by far the most powerful weapon you will ever have in this game. Once a player gets able to identify half the scum team every game as citizen they come to understand this.

Look for behavioral tells, examine vote patterns, poke at inactivity. If you are scum learn to lie and decieve as well as how to foster trust. As either scum or town learn how to collect sheep votes from other players and you can easily be a defacto mayor every game you play.

Any player who straight up quits because they do not like their night action needs to spend much more time playing such roles so they can come to understand this simple concept. Mafia has and always will be a game of deception and analysis.

I will however consider tweaking things a tiny bit down the road.

-edit
To be emphatically clear unless Rev decides to come back and do it himself I will never totally remove Prefer and Blacklist. Taking away such a privilege once it has been give is a terrible thing to do to a community.

Tweak it how? will you put it up for discussion when you figure out how exactly you would tweak it?

This dumb, just paragraphs of autistic cognitive dissonance trying to justify an unfair advantage...

it's bad game design for one, and two mafia should be fun enough to stand on its own without giving people an extremely unfair advantage all the while making it less fun for newer players since they will much more rarely get the fun or more powerful roles.

if any of the bullcrap you guys were spouting were true you wouldn't care about prefer/blacklist, and it wouldn't have ever been created in the first place.

it's really ridiculous to the extent you guys are grasping at straws, this unfair scheme only hurts the game.

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Originally Posted by Helz

a terrible thing to do to a community.

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yes taking away an unfair advantage from a select few so that the playing field is level is a terrible thing to do to a community.

this is fucking ridiculous and if you are the one solely in charge of implementing changes then this bodes terribly. you have no idea what you're doing.

you are advocating for a mafia "elite" consisting of people who have played longer to not only have an advantage in experience but also an advantage in getting to prefer powerful roles. and if you truly believe any of that crap you said about voice being the most important... then im wasting my time. already feel i am but your bullshit pissed me off so much i had to post and the fact that you have decision making authority pisses me off even more.

you dont love the game, you want to uphold some bullshit circlejerk of elite mafia poopsockers that can continually shit on the lessening number of sc2 random plebs to fill in the turd

again this is the gentlemen's club of mafia, which is ironic considering most of you are liberal as fuck and would whine about some perceived social injustice

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Helz

Honestly there is another side to this you guys are missing. The truth is that your night action should never be considered your only ability. Your ability to speak and vote is by far the most powerful weapon you will ever have in this game. Once a player gets able to identify half the scum team every game as citizen they come to understand this.

Look for behavioral tells, examine vote patterns, poke at inactivity. If you are scum learn to lie and decieve as well as how to foster trust. As either scum or town learn how to collect sheep votes from other players and you can easily be a defacto mayor every game you play.

Any player who straight up quits because they do not like their night action needs to spend much more time playing such roles so they can come to understand this simple concept. Mafia has and always will be a game of deception and analysis.

I will however consider tweaking things a tiny bit down the road.

-edit
To be emphatically clear unless Rev decides to come back and do it himself I will never totally remove Prefer and Blacklist. Taking away such a privilege once it has been give is a terrible thing to do to a community.

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You are right. And prefer and blacklist add meta that encourages people not to use behavioral analysis, and instead to solve the game systematically.
It's like playing with Landstander; He'd only be Jester or Veteran 99% of the time. How does that not skew how people play the game?

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Originally Posted by Cryptonic

You are right. And prefer and blacklist add meta that encourages people not to use behavioral analysis, and instead to solve the game systematically.
It's like playing with Landstander; He'd only be Jester or Veteran 99% of the time. How does that not skew how people play the game?

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"behavioral analysis"

these posts are starting to up the cringe factor and reading exactly like shit that comes out of r/iamverysmart

i love the autists coming out of the woodwork acting like playing this game successfully is some sort of mastery of always outwitting their opponents and being experts in psychoanalysis when in reality this is just a game to have fun in when drunk where a large portion of the outcome of the game depends entirely on random chance, which, ironically, you are trying to also circumvent with blacklist and prefer whilst putting the brunt of the random chance burden on newer players while you hog all the power roles

anyway, to anyone that isn't a full blown autistic retard, this kind of shit is very poor game design and should have been removed a long, long time ago. but this is just another small tiny game created by someone else where the reigns were handed over to forum whoring retards

You guys are pissed off. I get that. But how much more pissed would you be if you spent hundreds of hours working for a reward that was then taken away from you? How can I punish our most dedicated long term players simply because it inconveniences a select few every once in a while.

Lets be honest. Only a portion of games have 20k+ players. And even when a player can prefer it does not mean they prefer roles that you specifically want. I personally enjoy preferring Cit and attempting to run the entire game. Makes things a challenge.
You can argue that blacklist is a much more commonly used item but most players do not max out 10 roles. Its more like they blacklist 3 or 4 they specifically do not want to use.

Attacking me or my dedication to this project is no way to get your way. I am not going to tell you what you want to hear because you are throwing a fit. I am not going to justify myself to you or explain what I have given to this project. I do not have the sole ability to make decisions, that is Rev's privilege. You can hit up him, MikeVipe, or Oops if you take issue with my position.

On a not so friendly side note I am teaching myself to work with the map on my free time which is very limited. I work 40 hours a week and take 21 credit hours of night classes. I have no idea how so many people think its appropriate to jump on a soap box and dictate that others should work hard to accomplish their position but I have no respect for that kind of entitled perspective. All I can say is that if you keep up with that kind of nonsense I doubt you will get anywhere in life.

Yes I will look into it. Specifically I am looking at limiting the slots a bit but my current focus is on a large scale update that I have been working on for a while. I also have other priority's like rebuilding the account ID handler that are much more important than this. For future reference a reasoned perspective from a logical position will go much farther than throwing a fit like a child when you do not get your way. Learning how to appropriately position yourself to push your will is just as important as learning how to accept you will not always have things go your way and knowing how to work within a social structure. You are as crass and rude as you are immature. I can very honestly say its extremely rare I do not care to speak to someone. You are one of the very few exceptions chuck. I hope you just had a few too many or some such and its just a rough night for you.

​I agreed with Helz, i played almost 2k games and prefer and blacklist is literally the ONLY TWO things that kept me playing mafia.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Helz

You guys are pissed off. I get that. But how much more pissed would you be if you spent hundreds of hours working for a reward that was then taken away from you? How can I punish our most dedicated long term players simply because it inconveniences a select few every once in a while.

Lets be honest. Only a portion of games have 20k+ players. And even when a player can prefer it does not mean they prefer roles that you specifically want. I personally enjoy preferring Cit and attempting to run the entire game. Makes things a challenge.
You can argue that blacklist is a much more commonly used item but most players do not max out 10 roles. Its more like they blacklist 3 or 4 they specifically do not want to use.

Attacking me or my dedication to this project is no way to get your way. I am not going to tell you what you want to hear because you are throwing a fit. I am not going to justify myself to you or explain what I have given to this project. I do not have the sole ability to make decisions, that is Rev's privilege. You can hit up him, MikeVipe, or Oops if you take issue with my position.

On a not so friendly side note I am teaching myself to work with the map on my free time which is very limited. I work 40 hours a week and take 21 credit hours of night classes. I have no idea how so many people think its appropriate to jump on a soap box and dictate that others should work hard to accomplish their position but I have no respect for that kind of entitled perspective. All I can say is that if you keep up with that kind of nonsense I doubt you will get anywhere in life.

Yes I will look into it. Specifically I am looking at limiting the slots a bit but my current focus is on a large scale update that I have been working on for a while. I also have other priority's like rebuilding the account ID handler that are much more important than this. For future reference a reasoned perspective from a logical position will go much farther than throwing a fit like a child when you do not get your way. Learning how to appropriately position yourself to push your will is just as important as learning how to accept you will not always have things go your way and knowing how to work within a social structure. You are as crass and rude as you are immature. I can very honestly say its extremely rare I do not care to speak to someone. You are one of the very few exceptions chuck. I hope you just had a few too many or some such and its just a rough night for you.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Helz

Attacking me or my dedication to this project is no way to get your way. I am not going to tell you what you want to hear because you are throwing a fit. I am not going to justify myself to you or explain what I have given to this project. I do not have the sole ability to make decisions, that is Rev's privilege. You can hit up him, MikeVipe, or Oops if you take issue with my position.

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this is too long of a way to say, go fuck yourself asshole.

Prefer and blacklist should be kept.

1. Yes others want to play judge, but someone with >20K can play judge better and make the game more enjoyable to the other 14 players rather than having some idiot play it wrong and maybe throw triad's game or something of that sort

2. It makes new players "forced" to play "easier" roles like doctor whilst they figure out the game rather than make them play something that requires high amounts of planning ahead and lying, this makes them more likely to keep playing as they are eased into the game rather than made to play something they are unlikely to win at due to their lack of experience

3. Personally, I dont usually prefer Mafia/Triad/Killing/Evils unlike what you seem to mention as your example, these tend to be more linear in terms of gameplay (as in every game pretty much goes the same way, for eg judge just waits for marshall/mayor and saves evil with court when neccessary), I usually go for things like jester/executioner where its more interesting to play and like No.1 says, it might not be as easy to play for less experienced players, and it also isnt one of those "popular evil roles everyone wants to play". So no prefer blacklist doesnt really rob other's chance of getting the role they want

Like Helz mentioned, the role just determines how you play the game rather than it makes you win

4. Like many mentioned, it gives players motivation to keep playing to achieve 20k, with arcade already half dead, you dont really want to lose more players. Removing it will also cause many long time players to quit which also makes longer waiting times which many hate. And these players are the ones that stay in 5/6 people lobbies, without them most will just leave immediately after seeing only 5/6 people and there wont be games at all.

5. As with people playing the same roles over and over, whats wrong with that, let the man do what he wants. He wont be screwed just because people knows he plays that over and over as long as he doesnt use a usual colored name. If he chooses to do that then its his own fault since he coulda prevented it by using a randomised name

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DTZeratul

Prefer and blacklist should be kept.

1. Yes others want to play judge, but someone with >20K can play judge better and make the game more enjoyable to the other 14 players rather than having some idiot play it wrong and maybe throw triad's game or something of that sort

2. It makes new players "forced" to play "easier" roles like doctor whilst they figure out the game rather than make them play something that requires high amounts of planning ahead and lying, this makes them more likely to keep playing as they are eased into the game rather than made to play something they are unlikely to win at due to their lack of experience

3. Personally, I dont usually prefer Mafia/Triad/Killing/Evils unlike what you seem to mention as your example, these tend to be more linear in terms of gameplay (as in every game pretty much goes the same way, for eg judge just waits for marshall/mayor and saves evil with court when neccessary), I usually go for things like jester/executioner where its more interesting to play and like No.1 says, it might not be as easy to play for less experienced players, and it also isnt one of those "popular evil roles everyone wants to play". So no prefer blacklist doesnt really rob other's chance of getting the role they want

Like Helz mentioned, the role just determines how you play the game rather than it makes you win

4. Like many mentioned, it gives players motivation to keep playing to achieve 20k, with arcade already half dead, you dont really want to lose more players. Removing it will also cause many long time players to quit which also makes longer waiting times which many hate. And these players are the ones that stay in 5/6 people lobbies, without them most will just leave immediately after seeing only 5/6 people and there wont be games at all.

5. As with people playing the same roles over and over, whats wrong with that, let the man do what he wants. He wont be screwed just because people knows he plays that over and over as long as he doesnt use a usual colored name. If he chooses to do that then its his own fault since he coulda prevented it by using a randomised name

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At one point I was preferring Jester and Executioner every round, and I know other players constantly prefer a select few roles too, so yes, we are robbing other players of the chance to play those roles. And that is a problem. You may not do it, and there are other players who don't do it either, but there are sufficient players who do that makes it a problem.

But I agree with the rest.

Reading this thread has made me rethink my stand on -prefer and -blacklist.

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Originally Posted by chuck

you are advocating for a mafia "elite" consisting of people who have played longer to not only have an advantage in experience but also an advantage in getting to prefer powerful roles.

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Originally Posted by Exeter350

If you're playing to farm points for -prefer, and/or frustrated that your progress towards -prefer is too slow, you're playing for the wrong reasons.

This is why, as a 46k pointer, I stand by what I've always said: remove -blacklist and -prefer. Any differences between players would be purely cosmetic, in the form of models and coloured text.

That way nobody gets sidetracked from the main point of the game, nor will bankhackers actually gain anything from bankhacking.

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This is partly why I was originally against -prefer and -blacklist.

However, as argued in this thread, they ultimately give more to the community than they subtract. Along with the other points Helz brought up, it's why they shouldn't be removed. However, a nerf might be in order.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Helz

Yes I will look into it. Specifically I am looking at limiting the slots a bit but my current focus is on a large scale update that I have been working on for a while.

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Maybe a reduction to 3 prefers and 5 blacklists, instead of 10 each? If I recall correctly, those were the original numbers years ago, so it wouldn't be unreasonable. (If I'm wrong: whatever the original numbers were.)