S-FM: LBP Small-Town Mafia

@rumox in sfm turnabout i was confirmed mayor and when given a 50/50 on two overall good lynches i selected the lower activity player. In sfm Chicago i was a lover, hidden of course, and also selected to let speakers talk. Scum can slip when they speak, cant when they lurk. Also SB has a specifically difficult role to deal wirh and you are the only good way to get to that information

-vote Gerik

"Scum can slip when they speak, cant when they lurk." Agreed.

@rumox
It is a play on both sides of the table. The suggestion of it isn't going to be AI as it opens an opportunity for both teams.

-vote Gerik

Well as Slaol pointed out with his math, we need 8/9 townies to agree on a lynch, 7 if Damus is in. That just short of it being unanimous - so since the town is very divided on Slaol vs Gerik, I can only see this fight ending in a no lynch or mislynch since mafia have 4 votes to throw into the mix.

That being said, I propose we move onto a different person for day 1, currently I suspect Mike and Rumox being scum buddies, I can easily see Mike claiming to be jailed and released if the jailer decides to execute someone so they can blame the Vig and get a free mislynch that day. Slaol suspects Rumox and hasn't commented about Mike since I moved onto him.

I also find it interesting that they are trying to focus on SB the vet, which would be very handy for a scum grave digger to get early to proctect himself from any investigations/shots and can again possibly shift the blame to the vig/bus driver.

Thoughts?

If I was Mafia Jailor I wouldn't even touch discussing jailor interactions with other roles publicly just saying

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Originally Posted by rumox

If I was Mafia Jailor I wouldn't even touch discussing jailor interactions with other roles publicly just saying

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This is why I lean town on Mike

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Originally Posted by Yayap

I also find it interesting that they are trying to focus on SB the vet, which would be very handy for a scum grave digger to get early to proctect himself from any investigations/shots and can again possibly shift the blame to the vig/bus driver.

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But at the same time this does play into my doubts on Slaol in wanting the Vet executed day 1. If we are to believe Mike is Mafia Digger I'd be very suspect of Slaol.

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Originally Posted by Yayap

Well as Slaol pointed out with his math, we need 8/9 townies to agree on a lynch, 7 if Damus is in. That just short of it being unanimous - so since the town is very divided on Slaol vs Gerik, I can only see this fight ending in a no lynch or mislynch since mafia have 4 votes to throw into the mix.

That being said, I propose we move onto a different person for day 1, currently I suspect Mike and Rumox being scum buddies, I can easily see Mike claiming to be jailed and released if the jailer decides to execute someone so they can blame the Vig and get a free mislynch that day. Slaol suspects Rumox and hasn't commented about Mike since I moved onto him.

I also find it interesting that they are trying to focus on SB the vet, which would be very handy for a scum grave digger to get early to proctect himself from any investigations/shots and can again possibly shift the blame to the vig/bus driver.

Thoughts?

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I think we should pursue the lynch on Gerik and see how it splits. Only scum should be vehemently against it. If it isn't going to take then this push will help provide buddy info and maybe springboard us into one of the other options.

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Originally Posted by Yayap

Well as Slaol pointed out with his math, we need 8/9 townies to agree on a lynch, 7 if Damus is in. That just short of it being unanimous - so since the town is very divided on Slaol vs Gerik, I can only see this fight ending in a no lynch or mislynch since mafia have 4 votes to throw into the mix.

That being said, I propose we move onto a different person for day 1, currently I suspect Mike and Rumox being scum buddies, I can easily see Mike claiming to be jailed and released if the jailer decides to execute someone so they can blame the Vig and get a free mislynch that day. Slaol suspects Rumox and hasn't commented about Mike since I moved onto him.

I also find it interesting that they are trying to focus on SB the vet, which would be very handy for a scum grave digger to get early to proctect himself from any investigations/shots and can again possibly shift the blame to the vig/bus driver.

Thoughts?

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Are you suggesting Slaol Mike Rumox team?

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Originally Posted by rumox

But at the same time this does play into my doubts on Slaol in wanting the Vet executed day 1. If we are to believe Mike is Mafia Digger I'd be very suspect of Slaol.

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Ive pointed out my preference to kill AFKers for communication purposes already. Are you just no reading what im saying? I've even sited 2 recent games where I follow that. I value talking.

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Originally Posted by Slaol

Ive pointed out my preference to kill AFKers for communication purposes already. Are you just no reading what im saying? I've even sited 2 recent games where I follow that. I value talking.

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I did read it and I can see your logic behind it but this game is about lying and I dare say you're adept at lying so I take what you say with a grain of salt

Well not lying but I can't think of the word that accurately fits, post work brain clugging atm

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Originally Posted by rumox

Well not lying but I can't think of the word that accurately fits, post work brain clugging atm

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Remember that time u were town doc and i also claimed doc and was going to healchain with you. I then lynched all 3 mafia scum and won as arson?

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Originally Posted by Damus_Graves

These are the posts in question @Gerik

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Ok, @Damus_Graves . This one's for you.

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Originally Posted by Slaol

@rumox

In this post here I just now pointed out Gerik claiming that scum reading someone is not the ONLY reason to see them as scum. Yet his move from "policy lynch" to "Slaol is the #1 scum" was rooted ONLY in my reaction and scum reading of his action. Before that it was just a "TvT policy lynch ok guys", but after that I took an action he specifically said wasn't scummy in itself, and then read it as scummy. Lies. Manipulation. Narrative. IN THREAD FACT

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Translation: It's ok for Slaol to say: "lynch me, it's good" and then say "IT WAS A TRAP" and "MM is super scum" followed by "lol jk I townread him the whole time it was all part of my plan", but when I make a vote for mixed reasons some of which I claim immediately (policy) and some of which I don't (slight scum read on Slaol) somehow that makes me scummy? Nah dawg.

@Damus - this post has no evidence by Slaol of me twisting his words. He is accusing me of being a hypocrite (ignoring my explanation of what was actually going on and supplanting his own) while himself being a hypocrite.

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Originally Posted by Slaol

For all of his complaining that Mike and Yayap aren't offering value he seems to add a fuck ton of fluff himself. The insult isn't supposed to change value. The puns, which I have a fucking plenty of, are not even close to what I'm talking about.



And here he tries to jump ahead of my post, despite saying that it had nothing anyway. Fear.

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Still no evidence of me twisting words. The first part is pretty weak and ignores the fact that I was calling out entire posts for being worthless. He has had to nitpick specific pieces of my posts to create this so called "contradiction" to try to paint me as a hypocrite.

Also trying to say I'm afraid of him/his words. I'm not, it's just that there's little/no substance to them, most of it his his own projections. I also want to actually talk to people other than Slaol, which will be imposible if I respond to all of his accusations because they are never ending. This is intentional on his part as he is trying to both bury other conversations and keep me on the defensive so I can't effectively pursue other leads.

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Originally Posted by Slaol

Using out of game commentary- something he blames me for later

Picks a safe middle ground opinion on the policy lynch

Dismissing Mike, an easy lynch.

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Still no sign of me twisting Slaol's words. Did you just pick these posts at random, Damus?

In any case, to the first point: Slaol once again ignores all nuance. I made a dumb joke based on a joke we have that has nothing to with this fm. I did not in any way use this to make or support my arguments about things within the game. He has actively tried to use metagame knowledge as evidence against me.

2nd point: Not much to be said. I was undecided, so I said so. My mind changed later.

3rd: I dismissed his post. I'm also not the one who pointed him out as an easy lynch as Slaol did in this post. And for the record, I don't particularly want to lynch Mike at this point in time.

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Originally Posted by Slaol

I've rewritten this a couple times because I don't think you guys will care as much about my intent and will care more about what I see right now. (also for formatting)

I wanted the attention to bring out a scum mislynch push. I was setting it up all game, and it is here now. Don't let them brush off their overwhelming lack of real contribution.

-vote Gerik

Topic 1: The policy lynch
- The reality is that a policy lynch is a fucking terrible idea, especially when it is over the strongest roles, which I suggested. You’ll notice most players were against a policy lynch. This game is 9 vs 4, which means that for a mislynch day one Town has to get 7 of its 8 voters lynch the 9th, or that Mafia only needs to gather 3 towns. Those numbers mean for a Scum sanctioned lynch we only need to lose 37.5% of the town, but to pull off a mislynch we’d need 87.5% to fail. A mislynch on day 1 is truly a failure of the town, or a signup list for scums. The only reason you might jump on the idea of a town sanctioned lynch is if you were scum and really hoping to get off with a nice numbers advantage: here goes the plan.
Topic 2: Me as the lynch
- I have been specifically angling myself as the lynch target all day, for the sole purpose of drawing attention to me and hopefully no one else. Players like Mike or Marshall are not good at defense long terms and I don’t support their defending themselves. Stealth is also hyper low activity and a mislynch on them on day 1 was incredibly likely to occur if a dynamic didn’t shift. If they clearly slipped then they would be good bus targets, shot targets, escort targets, and jail if we don’t lynch, but they were also the easiest to be lynched. I am also a large character, simply on personality, and likely to draw a lot of attention. I said I’d rather be msilynched day 1 instead of executed night 1, and that is incredibly true. If Rumox can pop me he can just shrug it off, but a hammer on my head shows that scum is likely involved.
Topic 3: The town 3
- I called for my lynch, and specifically asked. I also decided to seek out the 3 town votes that I needed. I knew Yayap would vote me out of pure Vegeta/Goku rivalry shit, and he did. I buddied him early also to raise his suspicions of me. Marshall I knew I could get to vote me, and push me, by simply pointing out little thngs in his posts and telling him he was scummy. The dude, when town, can not stop himself from OMGUSing to save his fucking life. He did it against a confirmed town in turnabout, dude has no control of it. And Mike I counted on pure RNG because I think hes probably voted everyone about 10 times. There was my 3.
Topic 4: The Mafia 4
- I knew Gerik, or Damus, if they were scum would jump on the bait, and Gerik did. He pushed for a lynch he felt he could pawn off on me as having been my idea, as he has tried to do. Of course I suggested it…. Because it was incredibly anti-town to do so. The fact that he actually rode with it is fucking hilarious and (ill repeat) beneath him. He did it as a signal, as the 4th of 7, to let his Mafia know to get in on the vote, and even someone who had previously agreed with me on like everything (rumox) is now grasping at straws to scum paint me. I had hoped to get a few more no ones on me to get a few more reads but I did get the votes I was waiting for so *shrug*
Topic 5: Their shit ass accusations.
- Gerik is nothing more than trying to mislynch under the guise of a policy lynch. He only calls me a top scum read after I respond to his vote by calling him scum…. … … which earlier in the game he had said reading someone as scum is not inherently scummy… almost like he’s just making shit up as he goes. And you’ll note that even though he says there is nothing behind anything I have to say he then actually mentions 2 different ways I have deeper intent. His consistency is pathetic, but he’s clinging on to it, where as I have proudly announced my switching gears, in the same way I plan to use my role power as best I can for investigative purposes rather than pretending I am perfect.
- Rumox: He had previously agreed with me on most things, but after the Gerik signaling his accusation amounted to “But geric says so” and then trying to justify not executing literally the worst player in the game so far by contribution. You’ll notice Gerik also brushes off my statement that SB is a better execute – the guy with 3 fucking posts at the time, an activity warning, and who replaced out of his last game.
Topic 6: Why am I slaol?
- I am slaol because someone has to be. You’ll notice in Geriks second post that he attacks Mikes contribution, and manages to be pro-lynch without really saying it directly. He is dismissing someone he thinks will be an easy lynch, and setting up the option to push my lynch later, without bringing a lot of attention to himself. He then accuses me on VERY anti-town grounds, and further accusses me using logic that he himself disagrees with. I believe that his clear lie here is indicative that he both 1: doesn’t have a good reason to push me, AND 2: has painted Marshall as not knowing how to read either- likely another person he sees as lynchable and who is playing into their town meta.
Topic 7: Town
- My biggest Town reads are as follows. Yayap – the way he is talking and treating the game is townie. Damus is town and fearful to lynch me because he thinks if I flip mafia, which he’s not set on my alignment yet, it will look like he bussed me, which I happily already got him to point out in the day chat. TDL is just clearly town imo with how he has used his heightened pressure power on middle scummy players. Creed, I believe, is town based on my interactions with Gerik as Gerik wants my bussing out of the way. If Creed were mafia with him he could just block me. Mike is dumb town. Marshall is dumb town. Naz has also actively tried to solve the game by discussing how he and I should interact. That’s 8 of 9. Stealthbomber is actually my final town rewriting this. I had Rumox when I replied to HIM a minute ago, but reassessing how he and Gerik both matched on ignoring SBs obviously most lynchable status is too obvious.
Topic 8: Scum
- Gerik is scum I don’t need to say it again
- Rumox is scum for his clear following of the signaling - waffling despite enjoying me being painted as less consistent.
- Blink I’ve read as scum and how he just deflected accusations off of Mike and MM with such confidence shows a knowing mafia hoping to cash in on gracious towns. This definitely falls into the "knowing too much" that mafia like to show so hard.
- Banshis. Banshis is low activity, and lower activity as scum, which he hates playing! He also blindly picks Mike to be town for really nothing but gut. Same play as Blink but not as honed.
Topic 9: The 9 of town
- Youll notice that the Town players Ive listed have all also offered more ideas on how to solve the game. I pushed mechanic value. Yayap is waiting on his own big reveal. Naz did so. Mike is fucking trying someone scratch him under the chin he’s so cute. Damus was clearly truly scumhunting. Creed was trying to coach and inform and is even calling me out for rule breaking while drunk. The town is contributing.
- What are my scum players doing? Lurking but randomly buddying. Pushing a policy lynch on ground that they don’t even support. Not okaying executing a fucking 3 post player at the time, and buddying beyond what should be considerd public knowledge – a scum tell.

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Still no evidence of me twisting Slaol's words in this post. This is starting to feel like a waste of time. I've already responded to the parts of this post that had new information. I already knew Slaol was on Yayap's dick even though Yayap hasn't really said anything that's especially pro-town and hates Rumox because he agrees with me.

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Originally Posted by Damus_Graves

I do not read Slaol as scum. His posts are genuine in their feel and his points have too much contrast from themselves that a scum would have been more mindful of.
The only thing giving me pause on slaol is:


Even so I am against a lynch on Slaol at this point. Gerik's response thus far has been flimsy and it feels like a knee jerk reaction to being focused. Rusty or Scum. I am thinking he is a stronger FOS target right now than Slaol is.

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You got me to respond to Slaol's propaganda on false pretenses and somehow between the two of us you label MY response as a "knee jerk reaction"? lol ok.

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Originally Posted by naz

guys, i really think slaol is town, what scum would try this hard d1 and be in the spotlight

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I'll reply with one word: Slaol. If you think he wouldn't, you clearly didn't get anything from his play style or personality, at least the one he shows.

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Originally Posted by Gerik

Ok, @Damus_Graves . This one's for you.



Translation: It's ok for Slaol to say: "lynch me, it's good" and then say "IT WAS A TRAP" and "MM is super scum" followed by "lol jk I townread him the whole time it was all part of my plan", but when I make a vote for mixed reasons some of which I claim immediately (policy) and some of which I don't (slight scum read on Slaol) somehow that makes me scummy? Nah dawg.

@Damus - this post has no evidence by Slaol of me twisting his words. He is accusing me of being a hypocrite (ignoring my explanation of what was actually going on and supplanting his own) while himself being a hypocrite.




Still no evidence of me twisting words. The first part is pretty weak and ignores the fact that I was calling out entire posts for being worthless. He has had to nitpick specific pieces of my posts to create this so called "contradiction" to try to paint me as a hypocrite.

Also trying to say I'm afraid of him/his words. I'm not, it's just that there's little/no substance to them, most of it his his own projections. I also want to actually talk to people other than Slaol, which will be imposible if I respond to all of his accusations because they are never ending. This is intentional on his part as he is trying to both bury other conversations and keep me on the defensive so I can't effectively pursue other leads.



Still no sign of me twisting Slaol's words. Did you just pick these posts at random, Damus?

In any case, to the first point: Slaol once again ignores all nuance. I made a dumb joke based on a joke we have that has nothing to with this fm. I did not in any way use this to make or support my arguments about things within the game. He has actively tried to use metagame knowledge as evidence against me.

2nd point: Not much to be said. I was undecided, so I said so. My mind changed later.

3rd: I dismissed his post. I'm also not the one who pointed him out as an easy lynch as Slaol did in this post. And for the record, I don't particularly want to lynch Mike at this point in time.



Still no evidence of me twisting Slaol's words in this post. This is starting to feel like a waste of time. I've already responded to the parts of this post that had new information. I already knew Slaol was on Yayap's dick even though Yayap hasn't really said anything that's especially pro-town and hates Rumox because he agrees with me.




You got me to respond to Slaol's propaganda on false pretenses and somehow between the two of us you label MY response as a "knee jerk reaction"? lol ok.

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You asked me for the posts that Slaol accused you of twisting his words. I provided the ones that were fitting.

Spoiler : Gerik :

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Originally Posted by Gerik

Ok, @Damus_Graves . This one's for you.



Translation: It's ok for Slaol to say: "lynch me, it's good" and then say "IT WAS A TRAP" and "MM is super scum" followed by "lol jk I townread him the whole time it was all part of my plan", but when I make a vote for mixed reasons some of which I claim immediately (policy) and some of which I don't (slight scum read on Slaol) somehow that makes me scummy? Nah dawg.

@Damus - this post has no evidence by Slaol of me twisting his words. He is accusing me of being a hypocrite (ignoring my explanation of what was actually going on and supplanting his own) while himself being a hypocrite.




Still no evidence of me twisting words. The first part is pretty weak and ignores the fact that I was calling out entire posts for being worthless. He has had to nitpick specific pieces of my posts to create this so called "contradiction" to try to paint me as a hypocrite.

Also trying to say I'm afraid of him/his words. I'm not, it's just that there's little/no substance to them, most of it his his own projections. I also want to actually talk to people other than Slaol, which will be imposible if I respond to all of his accusations because they are never ending. This is intentional on his part as he is trying to both bury other conversations and keep me on the defensive so I can't effectively pursue other leads.



Still no sign of me twisting Slaol's words. Did you just pick these posts at random, Damus?

In any case, to the first point: Slaol once again ignores all nuance. I made a dumb joke based on a joke we have that has nothing to with this fm. I did not in any way use this to make or support my arguments about things within the game. He has actively tried to use metagame knowledge as evidence against me.

2nd point: Not much to be said. I was undecided, so I said so. My mind changed later.

3rd: I dismissed his post. I'm also not the one who pointed him out as an easy lynch as Slaol did in this post. And for the record, I don't particularly want to lynch Mike at this point in time.



Still no evidence of me twisting Slaol's words in this post. This is starting to feel like a waste of time. I've already responded to the parts of this post that had new information. I already knew Slaol was on Yayap's dick even though Yayap hasn't really said anything that's especially pro-town and hates Rumox because he agrees with me.




You got me to respond to Slaol's propaganda on false pretenses and somehow between the two of us you label MY response as a "knee jerk reaction"? lol ok.

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-unvote

I dig it.

@Gerik

More questions. I know you love them

Mike's suggestion of being jailed and sheriff check reads like poor setup understanding. Do you think it could be a product of Yayap confusing him into saying it?

There are 2 trains right now IMO everyone should pick a side and explain why. We should lynch for the information we will get on the flip.

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Originally Posted by Damus_Graves

Are you suggesting Slaol Mike Rumox team?

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No, I am not. I'm saying that both Slaol and Gerik are experienced players that are hard to read day 1. They can easily be S/S burning each other to get the valuable town cred, and gerik being doc - a role mafia don't need - he would be the one sacrificed, Slaol can easily dodge investigative roles by bussing himself around. (funny that Slaol pointed out that exact strategy replacing Gerik with me when he said it to MM)

Just as much as they can both be T/T - both their arguments against the other is a giant pissing match of who is better. A mislynch on either of them would gain me nothing train wise because Slaol is soo vocal and people are too lazy to actually scumhunt that many are just throwing a vote onto this train with very little thought. Anyone voting could be town just as much as scum.

Or it could be S/T - but again, the argument is soo weak on either side because of their playstyles that it's hard to judge.

Personally, I'm not even gonna try to take a side yet as there is a much better chance of learning their motives later in the game when the night actions and other voting trains happen. Gerik is a no risk role, so I'm not in a hurry to lynch him - Slaol is a high risk, but is also very good at deflecting/drowning/defending and with the poor information we have day 1, lynching him is near impossible.

Which is why I'm focusing more on others.


If Gerik flips town - what do we gain? Slaol is not auto scum - and neither is anyone who sheeped Slaol... because hell, people have joined this train pretty much only because Slaol said so.

If Gerik flips scum - it opens up the possibility of deep hidden scum that will dodge sheriff checks and blocking checks - I do this often so I know that I can't get an accurate read off of a day 1 train.


I find it concerning that Slaol is determined to get me to influence the investigative roles in what to do - possibly because he can probably guess who I would check and can wifom stuff out of that. I can see him doing that as scum just as much as town - so again, I have to wait before I judge him.

Im not even a good liar, and am usually obvious town when i play scum so idk what you guys want from me. Also i think my role makes me ONE of mafias biggest threats because the unpredictability of whom i will protect. The level of wifom on that is huge and mafia wont even begin to fathom my real target of protection. So good luck you trash tier mafia team.

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Originally Posted by naz

+1 ^
if i die to rumox he is clearly scum

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Um... if jailor scumreads someone, executes and that this someone flips town he's automatically scum? I mean, I think mike is town and think that such an execution would require a big explaination... but saying that he'd be 100% scum is just a logical shortcut that leads to a fallacy, this fallacy being that towns can't make mistakes.

Note that this doesn't mean it would not be scummy tho lol

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Originally Posted by rumox

Genuinely didn't even think of jailing SB and having Naz check him.

If it means anything my jail choices have been, Mike -> Slaol -> Banshis. Banshis has been the biggest lurker here and I was hoping a looming execution would compel them to speak.

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Exactly Yayap Is saying he is scum reading me for this exact reason.

"Genuinely didn't even think of jailing SB and having Naz check him."

-vote Yayap

Thank you rumox.

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Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

Um... if jailor scumreads someone, executes and that this someone flips town he's automatically scum? I mean, I think mike is town and think that such an execution would require a big explaination... but saying that he'd be 100% scum is just a logical shortcut that leads to a fallacy, this fallacy being that towns can't make mistakes.

Note that this doesn't mean it would not be scummy tho lol

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Tbh a scum jailor would be more vocal about wanting to jail and exe someone then a town jailor would. Because they want to justify their kill by saying it was already discussed.

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Originally Posted by naz

+1 ^
if i die to rumox he is clearly scum

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how is this scum? lets not take things out of context.

I was saying If I was jailed and sheriff was to check me. but jailer decided to kill me when you see me flip GREEN TOWN the Jailer would be Obv Scum. I don't see who that is a scum statement.

I need a shower after all this scum painting everyone is doing so hard on me.

And yes I don't think a network is a good idea for it can help scum with unconfirmed people in it.

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Originally Posted by naz

why do u keep saying day chat...

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Do scum have a day chat? like they did in Turnabout?

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Originally Posted by Damus_Graves

@Gerik

More questions. I know you love them

Mike's suggestion of being jailed and sheriff check reads like poor setup understanding. Do you think it could be a product of Yayap confusing him into saying it?

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I agree, I think it was poor setup knowledge on Mike's part. I think he did. I have a feeling I know where Yayap is going with this, so I'm willing to let it play out if for no other reason than to gain insight into Yayap's motives.

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Originally Posted by Yayap

No, I am not. I'm saying that both Slaol and Gerik are experienced players that are hard to read day 1. They can easily be S/S burning each other to get the valuable town cred, and gerik being doc - a role mafia don't need - he would be the one sacrificed, Slaol can easily dodge investigative roles by bussing himself around. (funny that Slaol pointed out that exact strategy replacing Gerik with me when he said it to MM)

Just as much as they can both be T/T - both their arguments against the other is a giant pissing match of who is better. A mislynch on either of them would gain me nothing train wise because Slaol is soo vocal and people are too lazy to actually scumhunt that many are just throwing a vote onto this train with very little thought. Anyone voting could be town just as much as scum.

Or it could be S/T - but again, the argument is soo weak on either side because of their playstyles that it's hard to judge.

Personally, I'm not even gonna try to take a side yet as there is a much better chance of learning their motives later in the game when the night actions and other voting trains happen. Gerik is a no risk role, so I'm not in a hurry to lynch him - Slaol is a high risk, but is also very good at deflecting/drowning/defending and with the poor information we have day 1, lynching him is near impossible.

Which is why I'm focusing more on others.


If Gerik flips town - what do we gain? Slaol is not auto scum - and neither is anyone who sheeped Slaol... because hell, people have joined this train pretty much only because Slaol said so.

If Gerik flips scum - it opens up the possibility of deep hidden scum that will dodge sheriff checks and blocking checks - I do this often so I know that I can't get an accurate read off of a day 1 train.


I find it concerning that Slaol is determined to get me to influence the investigative roles in what to do - possibly because he can probably guess who I would check and can wifom stuff out of that. I can see him doing that as scum just as much as town - so again, I have to wait before I judge him.

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I can't help but notice there's no assessment of what happens if Slaol flips town/scum.

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Originally Posted by Yayap

Well as Slaol pointed out with his math, we need 8/9 townies to agree on a lynch, 7 if Damus is in. That just short of it being unanimous - so since the town is very divided on Slaol vs Gerik, I can only see this fight ending in a no lynch or mislynch since mafia have 4 votes to throw into the mix.

That being said, I propose we move onto a different person for day 1, currently I suspect Mike and Rumox being scum buddies, I can easily see Mike claiming to be jailed and released if the jailer decides to execute someone so they can blame the Vig and get a free mislynch that day. Slaol suspects Rumox and hasn't commented about Mike since I moved onto him.

I also find it interesting that they are trying to focus on SB the vet, which would be very handy for a scum grave digger to get early to proctect himself from any investigations/shots and can again possibly shift the blame to the vig/bus driver.

Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Yayap

No, I am not. I'm saying that both Slaol and Gerik are experienced players that are hard to read day 1. They can easily be S/S burning each other to get the valuable town cred, and gerik being doc - a role mafia don't need - he would be the one sacrificed, Slaol can easily dodge investigative roles by bussing himself around. (funny that Slaol pointed out that exact strategy replacing Gerik with me when he said it to MM)

Just as much as they can both be T/T - both their arguments against the other is a giant pissing match of who is better. A mislynch on either of them would gain me nothing train wise because Slaol is soo vocal and people are too lazy to actually scumhunt that many are just throwing a vote onto this train with very little thought. Anyone voting could be town just as much as scum.

Or it could be S/T - but again, the argument is soo weak on either side because of their playstyles that it's hard to judge.

Personally, I'm not even gonna try to take a side yet as there is a much better chance of learning their motives later in the game when the night actions and other voting trains happen. Gerik is a no risk role, so I'm not in a hurry to lynch him - Slaol is a high risk, but is also very good at deflecting/drowning/defending and with the poor information we have day 1, lynching him is near impossible.

Which is why I'm focusing more on others.


If Gerik flips town - what do we gain? Slaol is not auto scum - and neither is anyone who sheeped Slaol... because hell, people have joined this train pretty much only because Slaol said so.

If Gerik flips scum - it opens up the possibility of deep hidden scum that will dodge sheriff checks and blocking checks - I do this often so I know that I can't get an accurate read off of a day 1 train.


I find it concerning that Slaol is determined to get me to influence the investigative roles in what to do - possibly because he can probably guess who I would check and can wifom stuff out of that. I can see him doing that as scum just as much as town - so again, I have to wait before I judge him.

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This is not an answer. I very clearly asked you slaol mike rumox and you brought Gerik into the conversation unnecessarily. You tell me that Slaol is experienced enough to be unreadable day 1 and expand it in comparison to flips on lynches for slaol/gerik.

Thats great and all for for not wanting to pick a stance on that subject matter but it isnt the original question.

Ok. Forget Slaol and Gerik.

The setup doesnt outright state that people wont have role unique death descriptions but you assume that is the case with the above quote.
Standard games have death descriptions based on the role that killed whichever player died. If that follows with this game I fail to see how anyone can fake being jailed when someone else is executed.
Why did you adopt this train of thought and what makes you think Mike is capable of attempting this WIFOM?

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Originally Posted by Gerik

I agree, I think it was poor setup knowledge on Mike's part. I think he did. I have a feeling I know where Yayap is going with this, so I'm willing to let it play out if for no other reason than to gain insight into Yayap's motives.



I can't help but notice there's no assessment of what happens if Slaol flips town/scum.

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I completely agree

Mike suggests checking Vet with the sheriff by healing with doc
I correct him pointing out that sheriff would 100% die in his scenario and demonstrate that the only way to sheriff check vet is by jailing him first
Mike says thats a great idea ignoring the fact that it requires mass coordination, ignores the facts that jailer has to be town to work, ignores the fact that bus driver/escort can foil the plan and so on.
Then says that he should be jailed to get auto cleared....
I posted 7 valid reasons why jailing Mike is bad.
Rumox then says his highest jailing priority is mike

These 2 have been buddy buddy all day - with 0 valid reasons to trust each other.

Mikes defense is literally - omgus

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Originally Posted by creedkingsx

I might suggest Banshis be put in the Networker chat as an alternative. You're role carries a lot more power with it and I'd hate to see the night action wasted on just trying to get a lurker to talk.

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Please if you network don't talk about your moves. Please don't help mafia. If yayap gets you in a network alone please don't tell him or her what you are going to do. I do not trust Yayap at this point. Last thing we need is to give Mafia more information.

Town: everyone not in my scum reads.

Scum:
Gerik
Rumox
The Dying Light
Yappy

Yall can thank me later when the games over.

Im also gonna say that the 4 mafia team members are a bunch of wimps

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Originally Posted by rumox

But at the same time this does play into my doubts on Slaol in wanting the Vet executed day 1. If we are to believe Mike is Mafia Digger I'd be very suspect of Slaol.

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Hell pass me around the table I am everybody's scum buddy. What I find funny is everyone here knows 1 fact I am not there scum buddy. How do I have this information SIMPLE I AM TOWN NOT SCUM!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Yayap

Mike suggests checking Vet with the sheriff by healing with doc
I correct him pointing out that sheriff would 100% die in his scenario and demonstrate that the only way to sheriff check vet is by jailing him first
Mike says thats a great idea ignoring the fact that it requires mass coordination, ignores the facts that jailer has to be town to work, ignores the fact that bus driver/escort can foil the plan and so on.
Then says that he should be jailed to get auto cleared....
I posted 7 valid reasons why jailing Mike is bad.
Rumox then says his highest jailing priority is mike

These 2 have been buddy buddy all day - with 0 valid reasons to trust each other.

Mikes defense is literally - omgus

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I don't have mike as highest priority, that was just a progression of who I wanted to jail throughout the game. It started with Mike, then went to Slaol, then Banshis. My current jail action is still on Banshis from hours ago. The only buddy buddy I have been with Mike that I recall is saying I am town leaning on him for pointing out me discussing jail chat in a network with potential scummers is pretty bad for town. All other interactions with him have been scum leaned reads of him iirc.

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Originally Posted by Slaol

I think we should pursue the lynch on Gerik and see how it splits. Only scum should be vehemently against it. If it isn't going to take then this push will help provide buddy info and maybe springboard us into one of the other options.

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NO, not only scum is agent it. HE is our doc.

This is why I am scared of voting him.

1 If doc is town and BG is Scum. = Town saying "here scum do as you want we are defenseless."
2 We have read Slaol as scum yes and Slaol has been tunneled on DOC that scares me.
3 most people don't only have 1 scum read they focus on Slaol ONLY WANTS THE DOC. tell me that is not scary.

Can Slaol possibly be town and Doc scum Yes it is possible. But Slaol always has a back up lynch when he is Town. Why don't he have one now????

Slaol Only person town reading me scares me after. I pulled the wool over his eyes last game when I was scum and made him read me as town. Sloal is Cocky he would rather lych me as a town than let me fool him again.

I am town yes But Why is he the only one reading that? and Blink also the BG.

I would rather check Doc before lyching doc.

OK Argue that. Slaol worked hard yes but on only 1 person. KEEP THAT IN MIND.

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Originally Posted by Yayap

Mike suggests checking Vet with the sheriff by healing with doc
I correct him pointing out that sheriff would 100% die in his scenario and demonstrate that the only way to sheriff check vet is by jailing him first
Mike says thats a great idea ignoring the fact that it requires mass coordination, ignores the facts that jailer has to be town to work, ignores the fact that bus driver/escort can foil the plan and so on.
Then says that he should be jailed to get auto cleared....
I posted 7 valid reasons why jailing Mike is bad.
Rumox then says his highest jailing priority is mike

These 2 have been buddy buddy all day - with 0 valid reasons to trust each other.

Mikes defense is literally - omgus

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yayap

Mike suggests checking Vet with the sheriff by healing with doc
I correct him pointing out that sheriff would 100% die in his scenario and demonstrate that the only way to sheriff check vet is by jailing him first
Mike says thats a great idea ignoring the fact that it requires mass coordination, ignores the facts that jailer has to be town to work, ignores the fact that bus driver/escort can foil the plan and so on.
Then says that he should be jailed to get auto cleared....
I posted 7 valid reasons why jailing Mike is bad.
Rumox then says his highest jailing priority is mike

These 2 have been buddy buddy all day - with 0 valid reasons to trust each other.

Mikes defense is literally - omgus

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This is 100% narrative manipulation. I just went over my interactions with Mike to see where this claim of being buddy buddy all day came from and the ONLY positive light I have shown Mike is that I have a town leaning read of him for pointing out how risky it is for me to discuss my jailor chat in a network. Every other interaction with Mike has been a scum leaning read of him.

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Originally Posted by Damus_Graves

This is not an answer. I very clearly asked you slaol mike rumox and you brought Gerik into the conversation unnecessarily. You tell me that Slaol is experienced enough to be unreadable day 1 and expand it in comparison to flips on lynches for slaol/gerik.

Thats great and all for for not wanting to pick a stance on that subject matter but it isnt the original question.

Ok. Forget Slaol and Gerik.

The setup doesnt outright state that people wont have role unique death descriptions but you assume that is the case with the above quote.
Standard games have death descriptions based on the role that killed whichever player died. If that follows with this game I fail to see how anyone can fake being jailed when someone else is executed.
Why did you adopt this train of thought and what makes you think Mike is capable of attempting this WIFOM?

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Damus I can see multiple scenarios where Slaol can fill a scum slot with those 2, their interactions with each other is odd at times. And Slaol has pretty much avoided them and has instead drowned out the conversation with Gerik - so yes it's possible but I'm not proposing it right now.
I'm assuming that the blackout custom rule will have an effect on day RP for the same reason that we don't get certain feedback - to protect the scum. If it makes you feel better, you can ask Auckmid. But until I'm shown otherwise, that is what I think.
As for mike using wifom - I was suspicious of him before that, especially since veterans have always pierced doc heals and is mentioned in the setup. Although I do permit some setup blunders, this one seems inexcusable. And both he and Rumox have not given any reason to jail Mike. (I did say this was a "if then else" game... This "if" mike is to be jailed n1 results in "then" I push for a valid explanation "else" I lynch them - especially since I gave them both a ton of reasons not to jail mike)

Gerik, if Slaol flips scum from a lynch then I'd have to go reread everything that was said from everyone else - you'd be one of the few that I would not be able to read simply based on that lynch because I can see you using the s/s strat. - I ignored this possibility for today because Saol is currently too dominant.
if Slaol dies from night and flips scum - depends on the wifom if it gives vig/jailor town points and who owns up to it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yayap

Damus I can see multiple scenarios where Slaol can fill a scum slot with those 2, their interactions with each other is odd at times. And Slaol has pretty much avoided them and has instead drowned out the conversation with Gerik - so yes it's possible but I'm not proposing it right now.
I'm assuming that the blackout custom rule will have an effect on day RP for the same reason that we don't get certain feedback - to protect the scum. If it makes you feel better, you can ask Auckmid. But until I'm shown otherwise, that is what I think.
As for mike using wifom - I was suspicious of him before that, especially since veterans have always pierced doc heals and is mentioned in the setup. Although I do permit some setup blunders, this one seems inexcusable. And both he and Rumox have not given any reason to jail Mike. (I did say this was a "if then else" game... This "if" mike is to be jailed n1 results in "then" I push for a valid explanation "else" I lynch them - especially since I gave them both a ton of reasons not to jail mike)

Gerik, if Slaol flips scum from a lynch then I'd have to go reread everything that was said from everyone else - you'd be one of the few that I would not be able to read simply based on that lynch because I can see you using the s/s strat. - I ignored this possibility for today because Saol is currently too dominant.
if Slaol dies from night and flips scum - depends on the wifom if it gives vig/jailor town points and who owns up to it.

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At this point I am almost wanting to be lyched so I can flip town and everyone can see how flawed your logic is.

What I would like to know is who scum reads me.
Lets find out vote me if you scum read me. If i get lynched will be one less town but will blow a lot of people game out of the water. Because I belive the scum has made there game scum painting me.

PLEASE TOWN ONCE I AM LYNCHED RE READ THE SCUMPAINTIING ON ME AND YOU WILL SEE THE SCUM GG

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Originally Posted by Yayap

Damus I can see multiple scenarios where Slaol can fill a scum slot with those 2, their interactions with each other is odd at times. And Slaol has pretty much avoided them and has instead drowned out the conversation with Gerik - so yes it's possible but I'm not proposing it right now.
I'm assuming that the blackout custom rule will have an effect on day RP for the same reason that we don't get certain feedback - to protect the scum. If it makes you feel better, you can ask Auckmid. But until I'm shown otherwise, that is what I think.
As for mike using wifom - I was suspicious of him before that, especially since veterans have always pierced doc heals and is mentioned in the setup. Although I do permit some setup blunders, this one seems inexcusable. And both he and Rumox have not given any reason to jail Mike. (I did say this was a "if then else" game... This "if" mike is to be jailed n1 results in "then" I push for a valid explanation "else" I lynch them - especially since I gave them both a ton of reasons not to jail mike)

Gerik, if Slaol flips scum from a lynch then I'd have to go reread everything that was said from everyone else - you'd be one of the few that I would not be able to read simply based on that lynch because I can see you using the s/s strat. - I ignored this possibility for today because Saol is currently too dominant.
if Slaol dies from night and flips scum - depends on the wifom if it gives vig/jailor town points and who owns up to it.

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I appreciate the clarification. With this I can share in your suspicions.

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Originally Posted by Mike

What I would like to know is who scum reads me.
Lets find out vote me if you scum read me. If i get lynched will be one less town but will blow a lot of people game out of the water. Because I belive the scum has made there game scum painting me.

PLEASE TOWN ONCE I AM LYNCHED RE READ THE SCUMPAINTIING ON ME AND YOU WILL SEE THE SCUM GG

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Jesus Christ. Calm down and stop the babyrage.

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Originally Posted by Damus_Graves

Jesus Christ. Calm down and stop the babyrage.

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LoL not raging. Just feel like the bitch that is passed around the table. Btw grave digger not escort here.

I'm off to play some rdr2. Yayap don't think I won't forget about your lies

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Originally Posted by Mike

What I would like to know is who scum reads me.
Lets find out vote me if you scum read me. If i get lynched will be one less town but will blow a lot of people game out of the water. Because I belive the scum has made there game scum painting me.

PLEASE TOWN ONCE I AM LYNCHED RE READ THE SCUMPAINTIING ON ME AND YOU WILL SEE THE SCUM GG

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Uhh if i didnt know you id scumread you, and im town...... saying things like watch after i flip green x and y is scum... That shit doesn't always work bro. And will get you scumread by town players.

Rumox is does not feel towny, his posts seem way to calculated and careful. But thats just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

I'll reply with one word: Slaol. If you think he wouldn't, you clearly didn't get anything from his play style or personality, at least the one he shows.

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Everyone except you, blink, and rumox are new to me.
also guys i just took my shot if nyquil so I'm passing out, and i believe end of day is ib like 5 hours, and i'll be dead asleep.
looks like town is all over the place - could gerik and slaol be TvT? One scum? SvS? I have no clue, which is why i'm annoyed abt this day being so long bc we really need to solve night actions this game, sinfe everyone is a power role

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Originally Posted by naz

Everyone except you, blink, and rumox are new to me.
also guys i just took my shot if nyquil so I'm passing out, and i believe end of day is ib like 5 hours, and i'll be dead asleep.
looks like town is all over the place - could gerik and slaol be TvT? One scum? SvS? I have no clue, which is why i'm annoyed abt this day being so long bc we really need to solve night actions this game, sinfe everyone is a power role

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Imo choose a train state why, it will help the game progress

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Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

Um... if jailor scumreads someone, executes and that this someone flips town he's automatically scum? I mean, I think mike is town and think that such an execution would require a big explaination... but saying that he'd be 100% scum is just a logical shortcut that leads to a fallacy, this fallacy being that towns can't make mistakes.

Note that this doesn't mean it would not be scummy tho lol

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i am a town sheriff. he's been talking about jailing and exing me all day, so i won't even have a chance to use my action; his only reason is bc im "inactive" when there are PLENTY of people with less post counts, as well as other ppl with more threatening roles to the town.
there's nothing to fucking say today, its day 1, my role is all about the night actions, this whole game in fact. unlike sb16, I've actually been keeping up with the thread, and i have my list of reads and who i would target tonight.
i would jail slaol that way he can't use his night action and i can get a clear result. but i'm not here to tell him what to do, its just what i would do it i was jailor. Just fuckin wifom and ham it up yall