Lets brainstorm a balanced Mason Leader role list!

[Goonswarm]

Lets go ahead and try to make it work. I tried yesterday to incorporate Mason Leader and failed horribly (based on my standards) the games were still fun but mason leader was not a huge player in the town win.

The problem is if you have not enough citizens then citizens just pop out and say "recruit me n1" because they don't care as they are citizens.

Here is my role list with settings:
Town:
Investigator
Investigator
Doctor
Doctor
Mason Leader
Jailor
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Mafia:
Godfather (immune to detect)
Consigliere (promotes to GF)
Mafioso
Neutral:
Jester

[Clawtrocity]

LOL Holy butts dude that seems so damn OP for town.

I'm pretty sure you already tested it, but that is just crazy OP for town.

DR's Choice is a balanced mason leader setup.

[Lysergic]

Yeah, I would say if you have undetectable GF, you should avoid having multiple investigators. The Mason Leader is the only role that could differentiate between GF and Cit. Having two investigators AND two docs would just lead to Mafia being raped very quickly. Maybe Replace 1 Invest with a rand neutral or a Mason (with "gets promoted to ML" on) OR a third Mafia?

[MrSmarter]

I found this setup works well.
Mason leader
Citi
Citi
Citi
Investigator (Revels role)
Doc
Doc
Bodyguard
Bodyguard
Godfather
Conisg.
Mafios
Mafios
Rand neutral (exculeds non killing)
Not my setup, someone got this to work in a pub game, and only one citi left.

[Goonswarm]

LOL Holy butts dude that seems so damn OP for town.

I'm pretty sure you already tested it, but that is just crazy OP for town.

DR's Choice is a balanced mason leader setup.

Just ran this and mafia landslide won with good play, town also had a close win too. seems balanced,

Update Landslide town win with pro jailor!

[monster]

If you are playing town in the OP setup and lose you should never player the game again. This is how town favored it is:

- 10 town - nuff said

- no randoms - gl to the mafia, that are not GF, lying on trial if detected, even counterclaiming won't save you

- no neutral killer - Mafia has to kill 8 nights uninterrupted to force a stalemate, provided there is no noob jailor and none of them get lynched

- mafia's ONLY strenght is the undetectable GF

- citizens are so many, that they can openly say they are citizens, and mafia can do nothing about it. It's either let them be recruited by the masons or kill them giving investigators free nights.

Here is what I would change in favor of balance:

Remove 1 doctor and 1 citizen from the game.

Add 1 adv. town.

Replace mafioso with disguiser.

Add an arsonist, immune at night, attacks ignore all kinds of protection.

[Lysergic]

Replace mafioso with disguiser.


Disguiser (especially guaranteed disguiser) has no place in a Mason Leader build.

My opinion, but I feel like it's a valid one. I played a Mason Leader build as Disguiser the other day. Kept waiting for a sheriff / invest / Spy to reveal so that I could ensure that I wouldn't grab a Mason. It never happened. Finally, the GF and other Mafia member started yelling at me at night for not doing anything, and the GF commanded me to take out this one guy. Turns out he was a Cit, and the Masons KNEW he was a Cit.

PM really fucks things up for Disguiser in these builds, too, since no one has to claim a role publicly.

I'd say ANY Mafia other than Disguiser would make the Mafia stronger in this situation (an undetectable Framer could destroy, but might tip the OP scale the other way).

[monster]

@Lysergic

Well, I disagree, the idea of a disguiser instead of mafioso in this setup is to buff the mafia with a way to make a double kill when it is needed.

You just described the most basic(dare I say noobie) way to play a disguiser - that is when a sheriff or investigator reveal their role - you hijack them the next night. I facepalm every time I see someone die from a mafia attack with a ?? on their role after a sheriff reveal the previous day - IT IS WAY TOO OBVIOUS.

In this setup the disguiser has to rely on consigliere information to pick a good target. Example - consigliere finds the doc - now you can take over the doc and claim to be him and there isn't anyone in the game to counter claim you. If put on trial, you will be the only player who can claim to be a doctor. That is advanced play.
(Yes, I realize that these kind of plays don't apply to most games - if you are put on trial in a pub you are 99.9% dead, no matter what your defense is)

You are right that if you take over a mason you are screwed, cos the others will know he was killed. But imagine if you find out there are 2 masons in the game - you can kill one of them and hijack the other one in the same night and proceed to cry how they killed your buddy. It is one of many scenarios where disguiser comes in handy.

/offtopic
Just cos someone was chosen as a GF, doesn't mean they hold any authority over you. If you don't think it is the right time to use your ability, just don't. LOL

[Lysergic]

monster, I guess the problem is that I have yet to play a game as Disguiser where I had a consig. It's always Disg / GF / Mafioso or Framer or BMer. I rarely see consigs in play when I'm one of the Mafia, which severely limits what you can do with Disg. Having the second kill when necessary is nice, but without a Consig (or a nub Invest who outs every doc / every role he checks), you're shooting in the dark.

[Duban]

Ok, I think the idea is to mask as much information from the investigators as possible. I'm thinking something like.

Town:
Sheriff
Investigator
Investigator
1x or 2x Doctor
Coroner
Mason Leader
3x or 4x Citizen

Mafia:
Godfather
Consig
Janitor

Nuetral:
Witch

In this setup the sheriff is the only one who can tell the mafia from the town, but it's the witch's goal to block the sheriff. The witch on the other hand is obvious to everyone, including the investigators. Then you have an interesting dynamic between the coroner and the janitor. One wants to hide and decieve, the other wants to bring out the truth.

I'm going to host a game with these settings at 8:00PM EST tonight if anyone is interested.

[Lysergic]

Ok, I think the idea is to mask as much information from the investigators as possible. I'm thinking something like.

Town:
Sheriff
Investigator
Investigator
1x or 2x Doctor
Doctor
Coroner
Mason Leader
3x or 4x Citizen

Mafia:
Godfather
Consig
Janitor

Nuetral:
Witch

In this setup the sheriff is the only one who can tell the mafia from the town, but it's the witch's goal to block the sheriff. The witch on the other hand is obvious to everyone, including the investigators. Then you have an interesting dynamic between the coroner and the janitor. One wants to hide and decieve, the other wants to bring out the truth.

I'm going to host a game with these settings at 8:00PM EST tonight if anyone is interested.


That's 15-16 roles selected.

[Duban]

Ok, I think the idea is to mask as much information from the investigators as possible. I'm thinking something like.

Town:
Sheriff
Investigator
Investigator
1x or 2x Doctor
Doctor
Coroner
Mason Leader
3x or 4x Citizen

Mafia:
Godfather
Consig
Janitor

Nuetral:
Witch

In this setup the sheriff is the only one who can tell the mafia from the town, but it's the witch's goal to block the sheriff. The witch on the other hand is obvious to everyone, including the investigators. Then you have an interesting dynamic between the coroner and the janitor. One wants to hide and decieve, the other wants to bring out the truth.

I'm going to host a game with these settings at 8:00PM EST tonight if anyone is interested.


That's 15-16 roles selected.

i forgot to remove the extra doctor under 1x or 2x doc but other than that it works out to 14. My only problem is I can't decide if 2 docs and 3 civs or 1 doc and 4 civs is better.