Poker Mafia!

[Arsonist]

Thank you Slaol for helping me to balance i
Also fix the WYSIWYG, it's broken

Not a good ripoff of "Lottery" setup, also i suggest to make the "Setup Spotlight" for setups like original lottery.

Roles:

Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Scumbag
Scumbag
Godfather

Unique mechanic:

Every player gets a hand of 5 cards on each night, host PMs this hand.
A player may ask to change some cards to host but only 1 time p/night (also player can choose which slots to change).
Depending on this hand, his role changes for next day and night, it doesn't change alligement.

If a player gets Supreme role, it will be revealed to everyone
Godfather can choose 2 players - 1st to make night action, 2nd to kill someone. He's detection immune.

Setup is powered by random.org (https://www.random.org/playing-cards/)
Also, please talk to host using Cyan and use mention (Someone).

Money system:

At start of the game, eveyone gets 200$
Everyone gets +100$ each night
+50$ to town if they lynched mafia

Players can bet money if they got a good hand at night,
Player with highest valuable combo gets the money and shop acess, sharing it with pepole got same combo.
If a player raised his bet, you must have a higher or same ammont of bet, as him to raise it.

You can raise your bet, go all-in or skip if you got a shitty hand.
Here's the shop where a player with a winning hand can buy items on money (also gives them additional night action):

175$ - Two pair item
350$ - Three of a kind item
700$ - Flush item
1050$ - Straight item
1400$ - Full house item
1750$ - Four of a kind item
2625$ - Straight flush item
8750$ - Royal Flush item

Combinations (town):


High card - Citizen (no abilities gained)
One pair - Gain additinoal card swap
Two pair - Doctor (Prevent a player from death)
Three of a kind - Sheriff (Check a player's alligement)
Flush - Detective/Lookout (Check the player's target/Check who targeted player)(Choosen randomly)
Straight - Bus Driver (Swap 2 players at night)
Full House - Vigilante (Kill a player at night, but don't be a dumb)
Four of a kind - Jailor(You roleblock a player at night and have a shared night chat with him, you can choose to leave him alone or kill him, player also gains night immune)
Straight flush - Mayor (Gain +2 votes at day)
Royal Flush - Supreme role (Gain all information about selected player, jail him, gain ability to speak at night and have +2 votes)
Combinations (mafia):


High card - Scumbag (no abilities gained)
One pair -Gain additinoal card swap
Two pair - Blackmailer (Targeted player can make only 5 posts in a day, after he's allowed only to make vote posts)
Three of a kind -Consort (Targeted player can't do anything, doesn't work on Straight+ roles)
Flush - Beguiler (Hide behind another player and all actions to you will be rejected to him)
Straight -Witch(Force a player to visit another player)
Full House - Kidnapper (Prevent a player from action and have a shared night chat with him, you also can kill him)
Four of a kind - Mass Consort (Everyone who visited the target gets roleblocked (except Godfather and MC itself))
Straight flush - Judge (Gain +2 votes)
Royal Flush - Supreme role (Gain all information about selected player, jail him, gain ability to speak at night and gain +2 votes)

Rules and day/night cycle:

No out-of-game communitcation
No gamethrowing
No smurfing
No homo
No quoting or taking images of prvate messages, sent by host
Posts editing is allowed, but only if you provide a link to post edit history
Day 1 lynch is Mandatory, others are Majority lynch
LWs are allowed, suicide is not

Day phase lasts 1 real day
Night lasts 12 hours

OoO:

Supreme ability (Supreme role)
Roleblock (Consort, Mass consort)
Jail (Jailor, Kidnapper)
Bus swap (Bus Driver)
Forcing (Witch)
Beguile (Beguiler)
Healing (Doctor)
Kill (Godfather, Vigilante)
Tracking (Detective, Lookout)
Day infulencing abilities (Judge, Mayor, Blackmailer)

This setup is incomplete and i need some help.
Ask questions in cyan and use mention. I'll ansewer as fast as i can.

Changelog:
Visit setup's edit history (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/posthistory.php?p=771207)

v0.0
Setup released

v0.1
Nerfed Blackmailer
Buffed Mayor

v0.2
Added money system
Nerfed both Mayor and Judge, are you happy, AVION?
Made the Jailor more common
Added Sheriff
Removed Investigator but added Bus Driver
Removed Consigliere but added Agent

v.0.3
Removed "raise income"

v0.4 (Slaol's rebalance upgrade)
Swapped a lot of roles as Slaol suggested in this post
Now only player with winning hand can acess shop
Raised prices by x1.75
Now detective and lookout are 2 separate roles
Added +1 Citizen
Added Bruiser
Added Consort, throught it was kinda op so added that it doesn't work on too OP roles
Removed the mafia +25$ bonus
It's very hard to balance setup with an idea like this, i mean, it's not like a setup with vanilla mechanics

v0.5
Changed preffix to "Ready for review"
Removed Bruiser, added Mass Consort
Added OoO
Votes don't become anon now

v0.6
Stated the rules
Stated the day/night cycle
Now players can ask to change cards only 1 time p/night

[AIVION]

You know... I like the IDEA of this kind of setup.. But....

RNG never makes anything fun ;/

The fact that the mafia has a chance to straight up INSTA-LYNCH if they're lucky enough screams unbalanced.

"Straight flush - Mayor (+2 votes at day)"
"Straight flush - Judge (Insta-lynch someone anonymusly)"

^ I Implore you to tell me how that's balanced... xD

Also:
"Godfather can choose 2 players - 1st to make night action, 2nd to kill someone."
^ What sorta "night action" would that be? I figured the night action WAS to kill someone.
Can he have a hand too? If so, what benefits does he gain from them? It would be stupid broken if the Godfather can kill AND turn into a Kidnapper too or something of that extent, wouldn't cha think?
: P

[Marshmallow Marshall]

^ what aivion said. And putting a "supreme role" that adds everything from all roles is just the incarnation of imbalance and randomness lol. Lottery worked only because you were adding one small thing (some were quite big though, I agree) and it was strategic a bit. While this is just randomness. This needs changes in the very core concept of the setup, because you need to balance roles yourself. This is waaaay too open. The basic idea isn't bad, though.

[AIVION]

^ what aivion said. And putting a "supreme role" that adds everything from all roles is just the incarnation of imbalance and randomness lol. Lottery worked only because you were adding one small thing (some were quite big though, I agree) and it was strategic a bit. While this is just randomness. This needs changes in the very core concept of the setup, because you need to balance roles yourself. This is waaaay too open. The basic idea isn't bad, though.

I think if he limited the town power roles who could do the whole "lottery" thing, make that balanced, and balance out the mafia roles... Then I can see this being interesting and less reliant on RNG.

Like.. maybe only 2-3 town can do this and the rest are normal Vanilla towns?

And only the scumbags can do the Card mechanic, and again, balance the roles?

No one wants to play in a setup where the mafia has a chance to insta-gib 3-4 townies in the span of 1 day and night cycle : P

[Stealthbomber16]

I'm fairly annoyed that you're redirecting people from other threads to here saying that "nobody cares about your setup". That's just extremely rude. Don't look for drama. You got enough of it when I fucking served you here. http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/42305-Are-communist-countries-THAT-bad-(My-last-thread)

[Ganelon]

Suggestion: Make the "Supreme Cards", the Mayor, and the Kidnapper unique. And do something about the blackmailer, because one could end up in the awkward situation where at the very least 4 people aren't talking.

And make it so that the decks can no longer change after N2/N3.

Another idea: for town, merge Vigilante and Jailor so that they are one hand, and then you RNG which role gets picked. And also make them unique. The potential for two towns to confirm themselves is far too great.

[Ganelon]

I'm thinking players could play some sort of "poker mini game" during the day via PM'ing the host. To ensure that the setup isn't completely chaotic and that players have some degree of control over what roles they could get.

[PowersThatBe]

Thinking about adding a role to my set up, see post here: http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/43303-PTB-AND-MESK-S-OGC-MAYHEM?p=771773&viewfull=1#post771773


(fair is fair right? :P)

for the record I don't care he used my thread to get his read /shrug <3

[Arsonist]

You know... I like the IDEA of this kind of setup.. But....

RNG never makes anything fun ;/

The fact that the mafia has a chance to straight up INSTA-LYNCH if they're lucky enough screams unbalanced.

"Straight flush - Mayor (+2 votes at day)"
"Straight flush - Judge (Insta-lynch someone anonymusly)"

^ I Implore you to tell me how that's balanced... xD

Also:
"Godfather can choose 2 players - 1st to make night action, 2nd to kill someone."
^ What sorta "night action" would that be? I figured the night action WAS to kill someone.
Can he have a hand too? If so, what benefits does he gain from them? It would be stupid broken if the Godfather can kill AND turn into a Kidnapper too or something of that extent, wouldn't cha think?
: P

He has a hand and he gets 2nd role

[Arsonist]

^ what aivion said. And putting a "supreme role" that adds everything from all roles is just the incarnation of imbalance and randomness lol. Lottery worked only because you were adding one small thing (some were quite big though, I agree) and it was strategic a bit. While this is just randomness. This needs changes in the very core concept of the setup, because you need to balance roles yourself. This is waaaay too open. The basic idea isn't bad, though.

Yes, but Royal Flush chanice is really low, it's like Flush + Straight + High Card

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I think if he limited the town power roles who could do the whole "lottery" thing, make that balanced, and balance out the mafia roles... Then I can see this being interesting and less reliant on RNG.

Like.. maybe only 2-3 town can do this and the rest are normal Vanilla towns?

And only the scumbags can do the Card mechanic, and again, balance the roles?

No one wants to play in a setup where the mafia has a chance to insta-gib 3-4 townies in the span of 1 day and night cycle : P

Yes. Honestly I think just revamping the Lottery setup would be better than make a new one with cards, because cards and especially poker are just too much RNG-ish and can make a game biased towards both sides, depending on cards.

[AIVION]

Yes, but Royal Flush chanice is really low, it's like Flush + Straight + High Card

RNG is still a factor..


He has a hand and he gets 2nd role

That's sorta.. broken don't you think?

Especially if you don't nerf or fix some of the roles and how they work (Like the judge insta lynch)

[Arsonist]

Yes. Honestly I think just revamping the Lottery setup would be better than make a new one with cards, because cards and especially poker are just too much RNG-ish and can make a game biased towards both sides, depending on cards.

By the way: From High Card till Three of a kind are junk hands
From Flush till Full House are pretty rare
Others happen only once in a eclipse of blood moon and to summon this hand, you must drink 10 cups of tea, dance like Rick Astley and stay upside-down for 2 minutes.

Royal Flush never happens.

[AIVION]

Yes. Honestly I think just revamping the Lottery setup would be better than make a new one with cards, because cards and especially poker are just too much RNG-ish and can make a game biased towards both sides, depending on cards.

Exactly...

Now that I think about it All the town members becoming vigilantes or a bunch of mayors is crazy too...

This kinda setup is just chaotic. If that's your cup of tea then.. power to you! :3

[Arsonist]

RNG is still a factor..



That's sorta.. broken don't you think?

Especially if you don't nerf or fix some of the roles and how they work (Like the judge insta lynch)

I buffed the Mayor so he insta-lynches too.
And 1 kill p/night is ok. Also, should i change it to item variant?
And town has many night kills, rly...

[AIVION]

I buffed the Mayor so he insta-lynches too.
And 1 kill p/night is ok. Also, should i change it to item variant?
And town has many night kills, rly...

They sure do, that's also a problem.

I feel like now the town is OP with that change xD I think just rethink of something a bit more balanced?

Explain item variant. What do you mean by that?

[Arsonist]

They sure do, that's also a problem.

I feel like now the town is OP with that change xD I think just rethink of something a bit more balanced?

Explain item variant. What do you mean by that?

Same as roles but you can use it at any night

[Arsonist]

Just saying, can someone review this setup?

[Numbertwo]

something different.. I like it!

[Distorted]

oooo this looks fun

[Light_Yagami]

Lets Play The Odds Multiple Times... Id Be Willing To Join This Game...

[Slaol]

Just saying, can someone review this setup?
Arsonist

Ill get to this today. Lots to think about

[Slaol]

First note: Your combinations don't know what they are doing with themselves.

For Town you have Vigilante, and Jailor, two of the strongest roles for Town, not in the top 2 spots. If in your opinion Mayor is the best town role because it will reveal someone as Mayor and they will always be confirmed town then that is fine at 1, but you'd be better off ranking the roles by the ability for the night power to drastically swing a game. The Town is probably best off having good odds at a Doctor and a Sheriff every night, with the killin roles being harder to come by because of the scale of their power.

I would suggest you organize Town as Citizen, Bonus Swap, Doctor, Sheriff, Detective/Lookout, Bus Driver, Vigilante, Jailor, Mayor, Vermin Supreme. This will give the Town the highest odds of getting the investigation and defense that they need to win a game, while keeping the roles they are most likely to get dependent on good play rather than a point and click to win. If you won't make this adjustment please explain why you prefer your organization that even, unironically, begs the town to not be dumb if they roll Vigilante.


For Mafia the setup is similar in that youd rather get consistent benefit with the risk of too powerful of roles being higher up. I would arrange them as such: Scumbag, Bonus Swap, Blackmailer, Consort, Beguiler, Witch, Bruiser, Kidnapper, Judge, Vermin Supreme.

Blackmailer is a good role that Mafia can always benefit from, however the blackmailed player needs to be able to vote after their 5th post.
Agent offers the Mafia almost no benefit because they can't REALLY town hunt if the Town is going to swap roles every night, so as that offers a value of 0 I've removed it from my recommended list.
Janitor is also nearly useless as all players "shot by the Mafia" are likely to be the same shared town role. This is a 0 value.
Consort, Beguiler, and Witch have a few uses and should be your midrange.
Bruiser is a role I've used before that for a night action can either act out a bonus perfect kill (that bypasses all protection), or makes the mafia's night kill perfect.
the rest need no introduction.

I would also advise that Godfather be immune to detection and night kills, likely until he is the final mafia member. You've opened yourself up to a lot of RNG and could have a bunch of TPRs floating around. Mafia needs a little bit of a buff, but going 8v4 would be nuts.


Please make these adjustments or explain why you won't make these adjustments.
Arsonist

[Slaol]

Second Note: Money is fucking broken.

In its current form the town can purchase a doctor charge every night, and a vigilante shot on night 1. This is INSANELY imbalanced to hand these powers to every player like this.

This needs a dramatic nerf, I would recommend by making only the player with the winning hand allowed to buy that night. This will allow one player to be a bit stronger each night, and will create situations where the player can select a higher cost item rather than everyone picking lowhanging fruit.

The combinations in the first note are up for discussion but this is going to have to be hard nerfed before this setup will be approved.

Other options include
- having to have gambled that night. This still needs a price raise
- having won a hand at some point in the game. This also needs a price raise
- following a proper lynch/mislynch but raising the prices a lot

Also, how will the csrds be displayed? If Mafia can coordinate they can only have the highest hand go in. This is okay, but given how abusable it is id remove their added +$25 since they have a cheating advantage

[Slaol]

Third note. Boring stuff

You need to officially note win conditions, day and night cycles, posting rules, activity rules, clarify role cards a bit more (example: doctor cant target self), what the vote mechanics will be (mandatory, majority, plurality, Condorcet?)

[Arsonist]

Thank you Slaol
Will be fixed soon!

[Arsonist]

SlaolThis was remade arround december 8th, did i did everything nicely?

[Slaol]

SlaolThis was remade arround december 8th, did i did everything nicely?

Boring stuff

[Arsonist]

Boring stuff

So what i need to remake?

[Arsonist]

NEW V0.5 UPGRADE!

(This setup will be v1.0 only if it gets approved)

[Slaol]

So what i need to remake?

No like officially state rules and day cycles and other boring stuff

[Arsonist]

No like officially state rules and day cycles and other boring stuff

Ok...

[Arsonist]

Also if you'll see the post edit history, you see that i had many updates, that are just formatting error fix.
Sometimes this forum automatically puts spoilers and sometimes ignores them like the [noparse] command (except that i didn't put it)

[Arsonist]

Ehm... Slaol?

[Slaol]

Looks fine im pretty sure
Marshmallow Marshall Damus_Graves

check my math homies.

[Damus_Graves]

yeah

[Arsonist]

Looks fine im pretty sure
Marshmallow Marshall Damus_Graves

check my math homies.

I can't wait this to get approved ^^!
My 1st 2nd approved setup.

[Arsonist]

It's not approved yet?
Then... what to do then?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Approved.

This is a highly experimental setup and the mechanics involved are of such unique caliber that we heartily suggest players and the host utilize whatever strategy seems most enjoyable for the game and take none of what results afterward to heart. This is truly a games game.

[Damus_Graves]

Sign ups?

Me personally?
I’m excited AF