Communism & Facism

[Marshmallow Marshall]

What do you think about these two forms of government? What are the advantages and disadvantages to them? Compared to democracy, how are they? I'd like to know more about the users's views on this.

The posts express the views of the author, not MM's nor Sc2 Mafia or its administrators's, nor VBulletin's.

[OzyWho]

Tbh. I don't know those words.
Can someone explain them to me? And also similar words?
Don't make me google complicated stuff. :(

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Tbh. I don't know those words.
Can someone explain them to me? And also similar words?
Don't make me google complicated stuff. :(

If you tell me English is not your first language, I will forgive you... Now I'll explain in my own words.

Communism is a political system based on equity for all. Everyone has the same rights, the same wealth (grosso modo, and usually the same wealth is more like everyone is equally poor), the same everything. USSR was a communist union. A quite unique system that is interesting to study. Arsonist Tauntshaman I know Arsonist is Russian, so maybe you're able to tell us a bit more on the USSR system? Please don't fill the thread with shitposts, don't make me regret pinging you. Tauntshaman, you're a communist. So I guess you could explain our friend what is communism exactly. And I got a question for you: why is there a communist leader?

Facism is a reactionary form of government towards communism. It's a form of right-winged communism, basically. The canonic facist regimes were Benito Mussolini's (the creator of facism), and Adolf Hitler (I dare to hope that I won't need to tell you who he is). Facism usually bases on the cult of a personality, a "savior", and promotes work. It is at the extreme of the right-winged regimes. Noz_Bugz did I explain well?

[OzyWho]

If you tell me English is not your first language, I will forgive you... Now I'll explain in my own words.

Communism is a political system based on equity for all. Everyone has the same rights, the same wealth (grosso modo, and usually the same wealth is more like everyone is equally poor), the same everything. USSR was a communist union. A quite unique system that is interesting to study. Arsonist Tauntshaman I know Arsonist is Russian, so maybe you're able to tell us a bit more on the USSR system? Please don't fill the thread with shitposts, don't make me regret pinging you. Tauntshaman, you're a communist. So I guess you could explain our friend what is communism exactly. And I got a question for you: why is there a communist leader?

Facism is a reactionary form of government towards communism. It's a form of right-winged communism, basically. The canonic facist regimes were Benito Mussolini's (the creator of facism), and Adolf Hitler (I dare to hope that I won't need to tell you who he is). Facism usually bases on the cult of a personality, a "savior", and promotes work. It is at the extreme of the right-winged regimes. Noz_Bugz did I explain well?

That Communism line: "Everyone has same wealth" is so very strange to me. We have always been tought that, ideally, everyone get's as much value as how valuable they themselves are. That's why we learn and that's why we improve ourselves. To get more "valuable". That's why we learn to sell ourselves higher in the market.
I don't mind a No Poverty world, but the fact that people have no direction in their lives - it sounds depressing to me.
But I guess instead of thriving for wealth, people might thrive for inner peace and happiness, ideally? Plz, we live in real world and not StarTrek. :P

About Fascism - I didn't understand what Fascism is at all, sorry. :(

[Marshmallow Marshall]

That Communism line: "Everyone has same wealth" is so very strange to me. We have always been tought that, ideally, everyone get's as much value as how valuable they themselves are. That's why we learn and that's why we improve ourselves. To get more "valuable". That's why we learn to sell ourselves higher in the market.
I don't mind a No Poverty world, but the fact that people have no direction in their lives - it sounds depressing to me.
But I guess instead of thriving for wealth, people might thrive for inner peace and happiness, ideally? Plz, we live in real world and not StarTrek. :P

About Fascism - I didn't understand what Fascism is at all, sorry. :(

On communism, yeah it's a common agreement between the proletarians (the workers) to stop being exploited by the rich people. It's a proletarian coalition against the power, so they can just work their land or work in factories. It's really from a proletarian point of view, actually. People that are done of being used as robots to produce stuff for rich people. And about facism... Google it, for god's sake :P

[OzyWho]

You remind me of my first FM game. You using words that I do not understand all the time.
I want to kick you in your round butt atm. :(

[Marshmallow Marshall]

You remind me of my first FM game. You using words that I do not understand all the time.
I want to kick you in your round butt atm. :(

... did you ever go to school at some point in your life? I mean... I tried to explain as much as I could. Did you not understand what Google was? :P

[OzyWho]

... did you ever go to school at some point in your life? I mean... I tried to explain as much as I could. Did you not understand what Google was? :P
No, I never went to school. And what is this "Google" you speak of?

[WorldOfGenis]

I disagree with both, I would prefer a Monarchy over these options. But with the options you have provided, I would have to say, fascism. Hitler was no god. That being said, he was a god among-st men. Hitler was a very powerful figure during his time. He had a quest, to create the perfect race, and even though we view it as a tragedy, that was his conquest. He had a goal, and whatever it took to get to that goal, he thought it was the best choice. All he wanted was the perfect human race, and though fascism is not defined by Hitler himself, he was a good example. With fascism you need someone who can actually lead, and Hitler led. So out of Communism and Fascism I would chose Fascism. Why not Communism? Everyone would be equal? Right? WRONG. Everyone would have the same pay grade, and everyone would be equal. That comes with quite a few problems. People will give up on doing harder jobs, and go to easier jobs. How does that help? It doesn't. Who wants to work hard as an engineer when you can work at McDonalds and make the same amount? NO ONE. Honestly that's all I got too say about that lol.

[Stealthbomber16]

Well, I've been painfully clear over my opinions on communism, so I'll cover fascism real quick.

Fascism and communism share a similar premise: totalitarianism. It places the power in one absolute ruler. Despite how much they want to claim they are different, they actually share so many similarities that it's a bit uncanny.

I won't deny that if properly executed, communism could be something that works. But the thing it, it hasn't.

Fascism on the other hand, is a term coined by a bumbling idiot, who then proceeded to get smashed in WW2.

Mussolini led a military coup in italy, took power, and then began changing everything to preserve his rule. I don't know enough about his actual reign in Italy to give many details but I know enough to say he was absolutely incompetent as a military leader and should not have given himself total power.

Here's a story:
Mussolini was freshly placed in power. He had absolute control over the state. The league of nations is weak, as demonstrated by Hitler's consistent violations of the treaty of versailles. He needs something to prove himself. He looks at the map and sees Ethiopia. A smirk forms across his face as he realises his first target of the full might of the Italian army.
The Second Italo-Ethiopian war lasted 4 years. He declared war in 1935 and the Ethiopians did not surrender officially until 1939, despite Italian reassurings that they had conquered it in 1936. Mussolini was repelled for a while and he ended up needing to use extensive bombing and gassing techniques on the Ethiopians to push the underequipped, starved, untrained Ethiopians out. It was a total disaster for the Italians, even though they won.

The soviet union also had a similar issue with their invasion of Finland, known as the Winter War, where Stalin was held and even pushed against by the the vastly outnumbered Finns. Even though they won, the losing side made a virtual laughingstock of them.

Totalitarianism's major issue is that the person the countries place their power in won't assign enough advisors and then won't listen to the ones they assign. It's an absolute disaster and it's why capitalist democracies tend to work better.

PEDIT: Hitler actually did do some good things for Germany lol. He was a terrible strategist but he actually pretty much saved Germany from the great depression.

[OzyWho]

No, I never went to school. And what is this "Google" you speak of?
Tbh. You should always expect this kind of answer when you ask rhetorical questions in a serious tone.







Comparison chart (https://www.diffen.com/difference/Communism_vs_Fascism)←(Source Link)

CommunismFascism
PhilosophyFrom each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. Free-access to the articles of consumption is made possible by advances in technology that allow for super-abundance.The state must gain glory through constant conquest and war. The past was glorious, and that the State can be renewed. The individual has no value outside of his or her role in promoting the glory of the State. Philosophies varied by country.
IdeasAll people are the same and therefore classes make no sense. The government should own all means of production and land and also everything else. People should work for the government and the collective output should be redistributed equally.Union between businesses and the State, with the state telling the business what to do, with nominally private ownership. Corporatism in Italy, National Socialism in Germany. Central planning of National economy. Redistribution of wealth (Nazi).
Key ElementsCentralized government, planned economy, dictatorship of the "proletariat", common ownership of the tools of production, no private property. equality between genders and all people, international focus. Usually anti-democratic with a 1-party system.Actual idealism, centralized government, social Darwinism, planned economy, anti-democratic, meritocratic, extreme nationalism, militarism, racism (Nazism). Traditional and/or exaggerated gender roles. One party system.
Key ProponentsKarl Marx, Friedrich Engels, Peter Kropotkin, Rosa Luxemburg, Vladimir Lenin, Emma Goldman, Leon Trotsky, Joseph Stalin, Ho Chi Minh, Mao Zedong, Josip Broz Tito, Enver Hoxha, Che Guevara, Fidel Castro.Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Francisco Franco, José Antonio Primo de Rivera, Corneliu Zelea Codreanu, Ante Pavelić, Ikki Kita, Wang Jingwei, Pl?nio Salgado, Konstantin Rodzaevsky, Oswald Mosley, William Dudley Pelley, Aleksandr Dugin.
DefinitionInternational theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, with actual ownership ascribed to the community or state. Rejection of free markets and extreme distrust of Capitalism in any form.An extremely nationalistic, authoritarian state usually led by one person at the head of one party. No democratic election of representatives. No free market. No individualism or individual glory. The State controls of the press and all other media.
Political SystemA communist society is stateless, classless and is governed directly by the people. This however has never been practised.One charismatic leader has absolute authority. Often the symbol of the state. Advisers to Government are generally picked by merit rather than election. Cronyism common.
Private PropertyAbolished. The concept of property is negated and replaced with the concept of commons and ownership with "usership".Nominally permitted. Contingent upon service, obedience, or usefulness to the State.
Economic CoordinationEconomic planning coordinates all decisions regarding investment, production and resource allocation. Planning is done in terms of physical units instead of money.Businesses are nominally privately owned; the State dictates outputs and investments. Planning is based on projected labor output rather than money.
Ownership StructureThe means of production are commonly-owned, meaning no entity or individual owns productive property. Importance is ascribed to "usership" over "ownership".The means of production are nominally privately owned but directed by the State. Private ownership of business is contingent upon submission to the direction and interests of the State.
Social StructureAll class distinctions are eliminated. A society in which everyone is both the owners of the means of production and their own employees.Strict class structure believed necessary to prevent chaos (Italian Fascist). All class distinctions are eliminated (German Nazi). Nazism believes in a “superior” race. Italian Fascism was not racist in doctrine originally.
Economic SystemThe means of production are held in common, negating the concept of ownership in capital goods. Production is organized to provide for human needs directly without any use for money. Communism is predicated upon a condition of material abundance.Autarky (national self-sufficiency). Keynesian (mostly). Large public works, deficit spending. Anti trade union and syndicalism. Strongly against international financial markets and usury.
Political MovementsMarxist Communism, Leninism and Marxism–Leninism, Stalinism, Trotskyism, Maoism, Dengism, Prachanda Path, Hoxhaism, Titoism, Eurocommunism, Luxemburgism, Council communism, Left-Communism.National Socialism, Falangism, Nazism, Strasserism, neo-Nazism, neo-fascism, national-Bolshevism.
ReligionAbolished - all religious and metaphysics is rejected. Engels and Lenin agreed that religion was a drug or “spiritual booze” and must be combated. To them, atheism put into practice meant a “forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions.Fascism is a civic religion: citizens worship the state through nationalism. The state only supports religious organizations that are nationally/historically tied to that state; e.g., the Iron Guard in Romania supported the Romanian Orthodox church.
Free ChoiceEither the collective "vote" or the state's rulers make economic and political decisions for everyone else. In practice, rallies, force, propaganda etc. are used by the rulers to control the populace.The individual is considered meaningless; they must submit to the decisions of the leadership. Traditional gender roles are upheld and/or exaggerated.
Way of ChangeGovernment in a Communist-state is the agent of change rather than any market or desire on the part of consumers. Change by government can be swift or slow, depending on change in ideology or even whim.Government in a fascist state is the agent of change rather than any market or desire on the part of consumers. Change by government can be swift or slow, depending on a change in labor output or even at the whim of the dictator.
ExamplesIdeally, there is no leader; the people govern directly. This has never been actually practiced, and has just used a one-party system. Examples 0f Communist states are the erstwhile Soviet Union, Cuba and North Korea.Fascist governments are generally headed by one person: a dictator. This is not an aberration of doctrine, in fact it is an important component of it.
DiscriminationIn theory, all members of the state are considered equal to one another.Belief in one superior race (Nazism). Belief in a superior nation (Fascism & Nazism). Gender (F & N). Mental or physical handicaps. Mental illness. Alcoholics. Homosexuals. Roma. Jews (Nazi). Ideological and political opposition, trade unions (F&N).
Earliest RemnantsTheorized by Karl Marx and Frederick Engels in the mid-19th century as an alternative to capitalism and feudalism, communism was not tried out until after the revolution in Russia in the early 1910s.The Roman Empire, which could be argued was a fascist entity. The earliest fascist theories were based on examples left behind by the Roman Empire.
Means of controlTheoretically there is no state control.Fascism employs direct force (secret police, government intimidation, concentration camps, and murder), propaganda (enabled by State-directed, heavily-censored media), rallies, etc.
VariationsLeft Anarchism, Council Communism, European Communism, Juche Communism, Marxism, National Communism, Pre-Marxist Communism, Primitive Communism, Religious Communism, International Communism.Nazism, Austrofascism, British Fascism, Christofascism, Clerical Fascism, Falangism, Francoism, Italian Fascism, National Socialism, Neo-fascism, Proto-fascism, Tropical fascism.
View of warCommunists believe that war is good for the economy by spurring production, but should be avoided.War is good for the morale of the nation and therefore good for the State. Through the conquest of war, the State can attain glory. The Nation State is bolstered through subjugation of inferior nations. War has no negative effect on the economy.
View of the worldCommunism is an international movement; Communists in one country see themselves in solidarity with Communists in other countries. Communists distrust Nationalistic nations and leaders. Communists strongly distrust "big business."Fascists are ultra-nationalists who identify strongly with other Nationalistic nations and leaders. Fascists distrust internationalism and rarely abide by international agreements. Fascists do not believe in the concept of international law.
HistoryMajor Communist parties include the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (1912-91), the Communist Party of China (1921-ON), the Workers' Party of Korea (1949-ON), and the Communist Party of Cuba (1965-ON).Term coined by Mussolini in the 1920s when he gained control of Italy. Other major fascist regimes include the Nazi Party in Germany (1933-45), the National Union in Portugal (1934-68), and Francoist Spain (1936-1975).
Modern ExamplesRecent far-left dictatorships include the USSR (1922-1991) and its sphere throughout eastern Europe. Only five nations presently have Communist governments: China, North Korea, Cuba, Laos and Russia.Recent far-right dictatorships include the Republic of Chile under Augusto Pinochet (1973-1990) and the Republic of Argentina under Juan Perón (1946-1955) / (1973-1974). There are presently no openly fascist governments in existence.
LiteratureThe Communist Manifesto, “Das Kapital”, The State and Revolution, The Jungle, Reform or Revolution, Capital (Vol I: A Critical Analysis of Capitalist Production), Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, the Grapes of Wrath.The Doctrine of Fascism, Fascist Manifesto, "La Conquista del Estado", "Mein Kampf", My Autobiography, The Myth of the Twentieth Century, The Last Will of a Russian Fascist.



Alright. Google sure gave me some information. I still rather prefer someone give me a quick and simple description, while talking to me like to a 5 year old or to a Golden Retriever, because the truth is - I probably won't read that much anyway. I am a lazy person afterall. ;(

[Arsonist]

If you tell me English is not your first language, I will forgive you... Now I'll explain in my own words.

Communism is a political system based on equity for all. Everyone has the same rights, the same wealth (grosso modo, and usually the same wealth is more like everyone is equally poor), the same everything. USSR was a communist union. A quite unique system that is interesting to study. Arsonist Tauntshaman I know Arsonist is Russian, so maybe you're able to tell us a bit more on the USSR system? Please don't fill the thread with shitposts, don't make me regret pinging you. Tauntshaman, you're a communist. So I guess you could explain our friend what is communism exactly. And I got a question for you: why is there a communist leader?

Facism is a reactionary form of government towards communism. It's a form of right-winged communism, basically. The canonic facist regimes were Benito Mussolini's (the creator of facism), and Adolf Hitler (I dare to hope that I won't need to tell you who he is). Facism usually bases on the cult of a personality, a "savior", and promotes work. It is at the extreme of the right-winged regimes. Noz_Bugz did I explain well?

There's a communist leader, because without a leader, there will be no governement, so it would be anarchy. So communism's payements based on principe "quality = reward". Men had higher payements, than women in USSR. Pepole, that work somewhere on factory was a good proffesion in these times. Also, most of communism countries's religion is atheism, they think the religion-based proffesion is "OP EZ MONEY". These countries are also try to have lowiest unemployement level, that's why you recieve no money for doing nothing in communism countries (actually in modern Russia you recieve nothing too, because unemployement allowance is so f**king low).

So, i'd say, there also some bad aspects of communism, like sanctions, but pepole like Joseph Stalin and Xi Jinping understand the meaning of this type of governement, so they tried to make the rise of their countries. Did you knew that rouble in USSR was more expensive, than dollar?

And the best thing in communism: you shouldn't pay for your living place.


I disagree with both, I would prefer a Monarchy over these options.

Well. What if the family of the king has no children? Then anarchy begins?

[yzb25]

Errr brutal dictatorships were never my cup of tea tbh. I suppose having to choose between multiple parties at the election can be a headache tho.

[Tauntshaman]

If you tell me English is not your first language, I will forgive you... Now I'll explain in my own words.

Communism is a political system based on equity for all. Everyone has the same rights, the same wealth (grosso modo, and usually the same wealth is more like everyone is equally poor), the same everything. USSR was a communist union. A quite unique system that is interesting to study. Arsonist Tauntshaman I know Arsonist is Russian, so maybe you're able to tell us a bit more on the USSR system? Please don't fill the thread with shitposts, don't make me regret pinging you. Tauntshaman, you're a communist. So I guess you could explain our friend what is communism exactly. And I got a question for you: why is there a communist leader?

Facism is a reactionary form of government towards communism. It's a form of right-winged communism, basically. The canonic facist regimes were Benito Mussolini's (the creator of facism), and Adolf Hitler (I dare to hope that I won't need to tell you who he is). Facism usually bases on the cult of a personality, a "savior", and promotes work. It is at the extreme of the right-winged regimes. Noz_Bugz did I explain well?

communism means that everyone are born equal
(though I don't agree with that)
In so called parliamental democracies like Japan and UK, the gov gives free money to the monarch's family, I call that absolutly bullshit.

socialism means equal work equal pay,
means that ppl like Warren Buffett can no longer steal money from anyone
if you disagree with that, you must agree that it's righteous to have someone in Luxembourg earn 500 times more than someone in Central Africa tho they're doing the same work

communism means that all kinds of religions can no longer fool people into giving those religious leaders money.

communism means that nobody except the state shall control the means of production
it doesn't mean you can't have something of your own. means of production are lands, factories, mines, etc.
in the 50s china went thru a series of land reformations.
Before: 1 persons holds 10 people's lands, the 10 rent his lands, farm on those lands and can barely feed themselves
After: Everyone have the EQUAL amount of lands. Literally EQUAL.

communism is is also internationalistic. in communist countries minorities are being respected. No communist countries openly calls it's major ethnicity "superior"

[Tauntshaman]

also north korea is not communist. only china, viet nam, laos and cuba are communist today(in name)
Kim Il Song says that there's too much wrong info in communist manifesto, so he came up with Jucheism.
Jucheism says that Kim family has the right genes to rule korea....

Which is basically monarchy.

[Arsonist]

also north korea is not communist. only china, viet nam, laos and cuba are communist today(in name)
Kim Il Song says that there's too much wrong info in communist manifesto, so he came up with Jucheism.
Jucheism says that Kim family has the right genes to rule korea....

Which is basically monarchy.

Yes.

[WorldOfGenis]

Well. What if the family of the king has no children? Then anarchy begins?[/QUOTE]

Well, I believe that it's not possible for the family of the king to have no children. In no situation would that be acceptable. Even if they actually could not have children, they would have to sneak a child in, somehow. BUT, in the situation that the king has absolutely no children, then when the king dies, it would go to a distant cousin of sorts. Yes, I think it would cause problems, ANARCHY? Ehh... Unless this Monarchy is doing poorly already, or is on the verge of anarchy pre-death, I do not think that it would cause anarchy.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I disagree with both, I would prefer a Monarchy over these options. But with the options you have provided, I would have to say, fascism. Hitler was no god. That being said, he was a god among-st men. Hitler was a very powerful figure during his time. He had a quest, to create the perfect race, and even though we view it as a tragedy, that was his conquest. He had a goal, and whatever it took to get to that goal, he thought it was the best choice. All he wanted was the perfect human race, and though fascism is not defined by Hitler himself, he was a good example. With fascism you need someone who can actually lead, and Hitler led. So out of Communism and Fascism I would chose Fascism. Why not Communism? Everyone would be equal? Right? WRONG. Everyone would have the same pay grade, and everyone would be equal. That comes with quite a few problems. People will give up on doing harder jobs, and go to easier jobs. How does that help? It doesn't. Who wants to work hard as an engineer when you can work at McDonalds and make the same amount? NO ONE. Honestly that's all I got too say about that lol.

I agree with you :) also IMO the best political system from a practical point of view (NOT WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO LIVE IN) is a theocratic facist regime. Because people have a fervent devotion to the State, while being led by one strong man, making the power more united. Such a regime is to be scared about, actually, because I fear it could SHAKE THE VERY FOUNDATIONS OF THIS WOOOOORLD.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

communism means that everyone are born equal
(though I don't agree with that)
In so called parliamental democracies like Japan and UK, the gov gives free money to the monarch's family, I call that absolutly bullshit.

socialism means equal work equal pay,
means that ppl like Warren Buffett can no longer steal money from anyone
if you disagree with that, you must agree that it's righteous to have someone in Luxembourg earn 500 times more than someone in Central Africa tho they're doing the same work

communism means that all kinds of religions can no longer fool people into giving those religious leaders money.

communism means that nobody except the state shall control the means of production
it doesn't mean you can't have something of your own. means of production are lands, factories, mines, etc.
in the 50s china went thru a series of land reformations.
Before: 1 persons holds 10 people's lands, the 10 rent his lands, farm on those lands and can barely feed themselves
After: Everyone have the EQUAL amount of lands. Literally EQUAL.

communism is is also internationalistic. in communist countries minorities are being respected. No communist countries openly calls it's major ethnicity "superior"

Yeah, OPENLY. But how comes communists have leaders? Leaders gotta decide something... else they're not leaders. So it doesn't work. I think communism is a good idea and a nice utopia... but it's an utopia.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

also north korea is not communist. only china, viet nam, laos and cuba are communist today(in name)
Kim Il Song says that there's too much wrong info in communist manifesto, so he came up with Jucheism.
Jucheism says that Kim family has the right genes to rule korea....

Which is basically monarchy.

Communism doesn't really exist today, actually... China is not communist. Idk about Vietnam and Laos, but Cuba is not communist either.

[Arsonist]

Communism doesn't really exist today, actually... China is not communist. Idk about Vietnam and Laos, but Cuba is not communist either.

China, Vietnam, Laos and Cuba are 4 last communist countries tbh.

[Arsonist]

Yeah, OPENLY. But how comes communists have leaders? Leaders gotta decide something... else they're not leaders. So it doesn't work. I think communism is a good idea and a nice utopia... but it's an utopia.

No leader = anarchy.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

No leader = anarchy.

But it's against the idea of communism. And communist leaders literally ALL abused their power and made everyone slaves.

[yzb25]

Well, I believe that it's not possible for the family of the king to have no children. In no situation would that be acceptable. Even if they actually could not have children, they would have to sneak a child in, somehow. BUT, in the situation that the king has absolutely no children, then when the king dies, it would go to a distant cousin of sorts. Yes, I think it would cause problems, ANARCHY? Ehh... Unless this Monarchy is doing poorly already, or is on the verge of anarchy pre-death, I do not think that it would cause anarchy.

From what I understand, in practice, the situation of a king not having a suitable heir is much less rare than you think. European monarchies had long histories of civil wars and battles for throne succession which resulted in lots of suffering and stagnation. When European countries switched to less centralized power structures they experienced far quicker growth.

In general, centralized power (i.e. lots of power in the hands of a few) results in very politically unstable countries. Even if the king / dictator is very wise and kind (which is rare), the great lengths they have to go to prevent losing their power results in misery.

[Fury]

But it's against the idea of communism. And communist leaders literally ALL abused their power and made everyone slaves.

++

[WorldOfGenis]

From what I understand, in practice, the situation of a king not having a suitable heir is much less rare than you think. European monarchies had long histories of civil wars and battles for throne succession which resulted in lots of suffering and stagnation. When European countries switched to less centralized power structures they experienced far quicker growth.

In general, centralized power (i.e. lots of power in the hands of a few) results in very politically unstable countries. Even if the king / dictator is very wise and kind (which is rare), the great lengths they have to go to prevent losing their power results in misery.

I had a long paragraph typed out as a reply, but then i refreshed... so this is all you get... lol..

[yzb25]

I had a long paragraph typed out as a reply, but then i refreshed... so this is all you get... lol..

hahah don't sweat it. =D

[Arsonist]

But it's against the idea of communism. And communist leaders literally ALL abused their power and made everyone slaves.

Not all, Xi Jinping and Joseph Stalin don't abused.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Not all, Xi Jinping and Joseph Stalin don't abused.

Is that guy serious?

[Stealthbomber16]

Not all, Xi Jinping and Joseph Stalin don't abused.

Xi has industrialized the country at the cost of mass education.
Stalin killed more civilians during the WW2 timeframe than Hitler did.

[Arsonist]

Xi has industrialized the country at the cost of mass education.
Stalin killed more civilians during the WW2 timeframe than Hitler did.

Without Xi, your computer is likely to not exist, because almost all factories located at China.
Stalin didn't killed more citizens, you're brainwashed. Also, he purged whole Europe from Hitler, you should say big thanks to him.

And if you're going to say "Stalin was worse, than Hitler", well... Go to concentration camp, you'll die instantly. And i wish that happened to you for that words.

[Stealthbomber16]

Without Xi, your computer is likely to not exist, because almost all factories located at China.
Stalin didn't killed more citizens, you're brainwashed. Also, he purged whole Europe from Hitler, you should say big thanks to him.

And if you're going to say "Stalin was worse, than Hitler", well... Go to concentration camp, you'll die instantly. And i wish that happened to you for that words.

Factories exist outside of china, dude. Yes, the industrial world would be smaller without the factories in china but another country would pick up the slack.

I'm going to recognize that you're blinded by bias here and that literally nothing I could say would show you how much of a complete dingbat you are right now, but I will say that if I go to a concentration camp right now I'd live because they're currently all deactivated ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[rumox]

Without Brazil, your morning coffee is likely to not exist, because almost all coffee beans come from Brazil

If you are going to say "Hitler was worse, than Stalin, well... Go to Gulag camp, you'll die instantly. And i wish that happened to you for that words

[rumox]

Dammit i should have used a communist country instead of Brazil, missed it :suspicious:

[Arsonist]

Dammit i should have used a communist country instead of Brazil, missed it :suspicious:

Edit post wtf.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Without Xi, your computer is likely to not exist, because almost all factories located at China.
Stalin didn't killed more citizens, you're brainwashed. Also, he purged whole Europe from Hitler, you should say big thanks to him.

And if you're going to say "Stalin was worse, than Hitler", well... Go to concentration camp, you'll die instantly. And i wish that happened to you for that words.

God damn, the brainwash is hard on this one... Also, please stop putting commas everywhere, IT'S ANNOYING. , ,, ,,,,, ,, ,, ,, ,,,,,,,, , ,,,, ,,,,

[Arsonist]

God damn, the brainwash is hard on this one... Also, please stop putting commas everywhere, IT'S ANNOYING. , ,, ,,,,, ,, ,, ,, ,,,,,,,, , ,,,, ,,,,

I can't, because that's my grammar. You got annoyed by Efekann02's capitalized letters? Now enjoy the commas, they're worse.

[Stealthbomber16]

I can't, because that's my grammar. You got annoyed by Efekann02's capitalized letters? Now enjoy the commas, they're worse.

I get really annoyed that you seem to claim that you live in russia and yet still vouch for communism.

I get even more annoyed that your inability to form cohesive english sentences vouches for that.

[yzb25]

Part of this depends on how you measure a "good state". To me, a good state is just one which sustains economic growth, keeps their people safe from crisis, and generally improves quality of life. They need not have any grandiose visions of building a sick-as-shit empire or creating some awesome utopia where everyone is perfectly equal. Sadly, my ideal state only gets a cursory mention in the footnote of history. And, typically, the people who are most driven to lead are the people who are most driven to revolutionize.

[Ganelon]

I get really annoyed that you seem to claim that you live in russia and yet still vouch for communism.

I get even more annoyed that your inability to form cohesive english sentences vouches for that.

About 50-70% of the Russian population believe that they had a better life under the Soviet Union. And that communism was a good thing.

http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/why-russians-still-dont-hate-communism-9294

[yzb25]

About 50-70% of the Russian population believe that they had a better life under the Soviet Union. And that communism was a good thing.

http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/why-russians-still-dont-hate-communism-9294

Holy shit that's fascinating.

According to Pew, 58% view Stalin positively... wtf o.o

[yzb25]

Holy shit that's fascinating.

According to Pew, 58% view Stalin positively... wtf o.o

At least the 90's economics can explain the view of the Soviet Union. How the hell can you explain the favourable view of Stalin?!

[Ganelon]

At least the 90's economics can explain the view of the Soviet Union. How the hell can you explain the favourable view of Stalin?!

I have absolutely no idea. I think, and I may be committing social suicide by saying this, that they might envy the amount of power Stalin held and displayed

[yzb25]

I have absolutely no idea. I think, and I may be committing social suicide by saying this, that they might envy the amount of power Stalin held and displayed

tbf, this reminds me of:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/07/26/britain-proud-its-empire/

But still though, noone is alive to see the British Empire in 1900, so it's nearly at the same status as the Roman Empire to Italians. Stalin is soooo recent O.O

I guess Russian education probably deemphasizes the bad shit Stalin did and our education probably emphasizes it, in the same way I heard very little about the bad shit the British Empire did from the curriculum and only heard it from the teacher herself.

p;edit I take back what I said about Roman Empire vs British Empire given many countries are still reaping the consequences of British Colonialism but the decisions of the Romans are pretty invisible at this point.

[Fury]

I don't understand why you guys even waste time responding to Arsonist.

The guy is an idiot

Stealthbomber16 Marshmallow Marshall

Arsonist , stop wasting generous people's time.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I don't understand why you guys even waste time responding to Arsonist.

The guy is an idiot

Stealthbomber16 Marshmallow Marshall

Arsonist , stop wasting generous people's time.

I stopped, because he won't change his mind, nor listen to us. :(

[Fury]

I stopped, because he won't change his mind, nor listen to us. :(

Good. I've read some of what you've said - scattered across various posts. You seem to be pretty smart.

He is either brainwashed or a troll :noworry:

[Marshmallow Marshall]

:love:

[Stealthbomber16]

About 50-70% of the Russian population believe that they had a better life under the Soviet Union. And that communism was a good thing.

http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/why-russians-still-dont-hate-communism-9294

Thats because Putin is not a good president.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Thats because Putin is not a good president.

For Russia? Oh yes he is. Just not for the rest of the world :P

[Stealthbomber16]

For Russia? Oh yes he is. Just not for the rest of the world :P

I saw an article at one point that was along the lines of "Moscow Residents can only get snow removed if they write the opposition leader's name on it"

[Fury]

For Russia? Oh yes he is. Just not for the rest of the world :P

^ damn straight man

[Fury]

I saw an article at one point that was along the lines of "Moscow Residents can only get snow removed if they write the opposition leader's name on it"

You are aware of just how much shit he has done for Russia, right? He basically manipulates the world, because most people won't call him on it.

Case in point, our President sucks his cock on Tuesdays.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I saw an article at one point that was along the lines of "Moscow Residents can only get snow removed if they write the opposition leader's name on it"

That's... a detail. I've talked to Russians that are now back to their country, and they love Putin. He gave them their nation back. He's really good, REALLY. One of the last statesmen doing "real politics". Fury is right on that... Since Trump sucks (if you're a trumpist sorry but you will at least agree he's not a diplomacy master), Putin used that to gain an advantage on USA... and he did it pretty well IMO.

[Ganelon]

Yeah, Putin's a shit president, agreed. But he can't be anywhere near as bad as any of the Soviet leaders.