Luna
December 16th, 2011, 06:22 PM
Now that Fragos' M-FMII is fully underway (and what an exciting game it promises to be, too), I thought I'd emulate FalseTruth and discuss M-FMIII. I have kindly been allowed to yet again host, so that I may experiment with a new mechanic or two and decide a theme.
At this point though I don't need a discussion on how to balance things; the new custom mechanic(s) I'm introducing have had thought put into them, and are not drastic by any means. I was actually wondering if someone could come up with a new role which would fit the style of the game.
M-FMIII will be a bit like FalseTruth's I suppose - not a really long and drawn out game, but one which will test your FM skills to the limit. 16ish players, no Godfather, no town killing roles, no 'hard' investigative roles (sheriff, investigator), some citizens. Basically, the Town will still have the ability to gather information, but information will have to be corroborated and might not be trustworthy. Players on this forum have a knack for playing as Town and many need to brush up on their scum skills. In M-FMI there was practically no investigative evidence yet the Town managed to lynch a Mafia/Neutral every turn. Yes, this is in part due to a mass-claim (which wasn't conclusive) and a jailor (the merging of FM with SC2 mafia was bound to run into a kink or two, but Dust did do some top-notch analysis).
Anyway, any sort of role claim will be difficult to verify in the setup I have in mind. What is this thread for then? Well I was thinking we could have some sort of outside-the-box thinking. I was looking for a suggestion for a Town investigative role which is on the weaker side - the Lookout, Detective, Coroner and Spy all have their own uses obviously, but the information they gather must be used intelligently.
So, what kind of things could this investigative role look for? Here's an example I just thought of; there is no jailor in my setup, but what if there was a town role which could talk anonymously with someone at night just like a jailor without the roleblock? Now this is quite powerful, and most importantly can verify itself so I'd likely not use it, but you get the gist.
(And yes I'm bored because I have already spammed all the recent threads that interest me :P)
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Suggested Role Summaries:
Evil Journalist - Mafia/Neutral aligned
Abilities: The same as the Journalist, except he is mafia-aligned or evil neutral.
Pros: Added potential for more a more skilled disruption of the Town. The possibility for this role to exist in the setup means the Good Journalist cannot role-claim with impunity.
Cons: Not the most helpful ability for a 'pure' Mafia role. Role-claim implications.
Summary: Well I think it's a fun idea, I think the Journalist is one of the best FM roles and this adds extra meta-game implications. (Contributed mostly by: ME!)
Secret Agent - Town aligned
Abilities: Is given transcripts of the Mafia night chat, though more sensitive information is redacted.
Pros: Requires intelligence to sift through the data. A decent way to have a 'spy' type character. Shouldn't affect Mafia chat too much; subtle Mafia players might be able to exploit the possibility they are being spied on.
Cons: Host-reliant and Host-intensive. Could be annoying for the Mafia players if they feel the need to disguise their speech, non-native English speakers at a disadvantage.
Summary: I like it, I feel I could pull it off, but it needs more work and more clearly-defined parameters before it becomes even a possibility. (Contributed mostly by: TheWaaagh/Deathfire123)
Eavesdropper - Town aligned
Abilities: Players are allowed to PM each other. The Eavesdropper may 'listen in' on certain PMs.
Pros: A good concept. If the Mafia were allowed to PM each other during the day, this would be a really good complementary role and a high priority target for the Mafia.
Cons: Requires constant Host supervision. Requires PMs to be allowed, which is not likely.
Summary: Despite being a good concept, I think it is beyond the limits of this particular M-FM. (Contributed mostly by: Dust)
Gypsy Lady - Town Aligned
Abilities: Randomly selects a hidden role to reveal. Does not reveal the player assigned to that role. Limited to one charge.
Pros: I initially misunderstood CmG, this is actually a cool idea - it helps Town by taking away some of the mystery of the setup. That 'Consort' claiming to be an Escort? Maybe it reveals a Consort in the setup. Think you've been drugged? Turns out there IS a bus driver in the setup.
Cons: Not the most exciting role. Can benefit the Mafia/Neutrals in the right situation.
Summary: I'm keeping this role in mind, I think this has potential. (Contributed mostly by: CmG)
Dreamer - Town aligned
Abilities: Inspired by EpicMafia. Can dream at night. In his dream he is given five names - one or more of these players is not Town. Limited to one or two charges.
Pros: Casts a large enough net to not be efficient by itself.
Cons: Bit too powerful. Creates an immediate 'lynch group'.
Summary: It was worth a mention. If you have just one or two verified roles in that net then things become a bit ez-mode for the Town. Limiting to one use and upping the figure to seven names, or something to that effect, could diminish it somewhat, but I don't hold up much hope for this role as of now. (Contributed mostly by: ME!)
Naive Cop/Corrupt Cop/Insane Cop - Town aligned
Abilities: A sheriff with distorted findings. Naive cop thinks everyone is innocent, Corrupt Cop thinks everyone is guilty, Insane Cop sees guilty people as innocent and vice versa. Another one inspired by EpicMafia/other mafia games, an established role.
Pros: Some thought required, must decipher what kind of cop they are.
Cons: Trial-and-error necessary. It's still a 'hard' investigative role. No chance for a sane Sheriff, so you can't even begin to trust your own results.
Summary: Might be worth trying to balance for other games, but the absence of any kind of Sheriff was intentional here. (Contributed mostly by: TheWaaagh)
Medical Student - Town aligned
Abilities: Player will be told they are a regular Doctor. Has the ability to heal players. Also has the ability to roleblock players. The first night action will be randomised, and then it alternates between the heal and the block.
Pros: Adds some spice to the Doctor, more strategic play is necessary if they are to protect the Town.
Cons: After night 1 the target will probably say they were or were not blocked, turns the Medical Student into quite a powerful role if caught early.
Summary: Since you kinda have to tell the target if they were blocked, it takes away some of the mystery. I'm opposed to complete randomness on every heal/block though, this is still meant to be a strategic game. (Mostly inspired by: Sumikoko)
Chainsaw Doctor (The Sumidoc!) - Town aligned
Abilities: Will be told they are a normal Doctor. Target will not be told they have been healed, unless the heal was successful. On the second successful heal, the Chainsaw Doctor will accidentally chainsaw himself to death.
Pros: Much like a regular Doctor, but harder to role-claim. Still gets to heal, but the second heal should probably be reserved for an important Town role (as the Chainsaw Doctor essentially becomes a toned-down bodyguard).
Cons: Might give Mafia a bit too much leeway, they might try and claim as the Doctor if a Chainsaw Doc is in play since they know who they target at night. Can still be caught out easily in this lie though if Town plays properly.
Summary: This actually fits pretty well into my setup, but it really is just a nerfed version of the Doctor in every single respect. Potential for a role like this. (Mostly inspired by: Sumikoko)
Spy - Town aligned
Abilities: Discovers one random scum target. Does not know who targeted them or what the action was.
Pros: Does not help find scum on its own, but a good complementary role to Lookouts and Detectives.
Cons: Can be a bit OP, since no thought needs to be put into the target. Even if it counts neutral targets, if the target did not die then they're probably not mafia.
Summary: I will have to take this role into consideration alongside my other custom roles. (Most contributed by: Borkbot)
Mortician (Trace Investigator) - Town Aligned
Ability: Can visit a dead body and discover what actions were performed on it (i.e. Witched, framed, investigated). Mortician is not informed on which night these actions occurred.
Pros: A useful role for discovering which roles are in the game, very good for catching out liars.
Cons: Some might say weak, with the built-in lag of checking dead people.
Summary: I think this is a very balanced role, a really great idea. Has the potential to win games, but the Mortician must be careful with his information and bait people into lying. Will almost definitely find a way into the possible roles list, unless someone can see a game-breaking flaw I missed. (Mostly contributed by: Borkbot)
Village Idiot - Town aligned
Abilities: At night can choose to use his ability. Anyone visiting him will get confused and roleblocked. The Village Idiot is not informed if he blocks anyone this way - his lack of social skills means he is unaware that he is a pest. Players receive the same message as if they were blocked by a consort/escort.
Pros: Less harmful to Town, can essentially self-protect himself (kills which pierce immunities cannot pierce blocks, but a role which kills roleblockers will kill the Idiot).
Cons: While able to kinda able to clear himself, the Idiot will have a hard time actively looking for scum. Can help clear other potential Townies if they know what night they were blocked when they visited him, though.
Summary: Quite a nice role, it's low-key and simple yet effective. Could fit into my setup really well, as it gives some of the utility of the Veteran without the extra KPN. (Mostly contributed by: CmG)
Actress/Actor - Mafia aligned
Abilities: Can choose a player at night. Will not be told of their role, but if the Actress/Actor dies they will appear to be that role. Unlimited uses, will appear as last person targeted.
Pros: Not the most pro-active and useful Mafia role in a small setup, but when they die they can seriously disrupt the Town.
Cons: Has to be in the right setup, players must be aware of the possibility of the Actress/Actor.
Summary: Inspired by EpicMafia, this kind of role has been suggested before. In this setup it could prove to be really interesting, as M-FMIII is a game designed to test the players scumhunting skills and make them question every bit of information they receive. Gives some depth to the possible Mafia roles, too.
Watchman - Town aligned
Abilities: Can put himself in a vantage point at night and monitor the Town from afar. Will receive a notification of how many night actions were made that night. Limited uses. If a Framer visits the Watchman, the number will be inaccurate. Cannot track the night action of a Godfather. If someone is blocked, only the blocking action will be counted.
Pros: Useful information when people start role-claiming.
Cons: Can easily inspire a mass-claim, even with the possible anomalies which might occur to the number.
Summary: To retain any shred of usefulness it needs to remain accurate, and if the Watchman has a high chance of getting an accurate reading then it could be a bit powerful. Willing to hear ideas on how to balance it though. (Mostly contributed by: Dust)
At this point though I don't need a discussion on how to balance things; the new custom mechanic(s) I'm introducing have had thought put into them, and are not drastic by any means. I was actually wondering if someone could come up with a new role which would fit the style of the game.
M-FMIII will be a bit like FalseTruth's I suppose - not a really long and drawn out game, but one which will test your FM skills to the limit. 16ish players, no Godfather, no town killing roles, no 'hard' investigative roles (sheriff, investigator), some citizens. Basically, the Town will still have the ability to gather information, but information will have to be corroborated and might not be trustworthy. Players on this forum have a knack for playing as Town and many need to brush up on their scum skills. In M-FMI there was practically no investigative evidence yet the Town managed to lynch a Mafia/Neutral every turn. Yes, this is in part due to a mass-claim (which wasn't conclusive) and a jailor (the merging of FM with SC2 mafia was bound to run into a kink or two, but Dust did do some top-notch analysis).
Anyway, any sort of role claim will be difficult to verify in the setup I have in mind. What is this thread for then? Well I was thinking we could have some sort of outside-the-box thinking. I was looking for a suggestion for a Town investigative role which is on the weaker side - the Lookout, Detective, Coroner and Spy all have their own uses obviously, but the information they gather must be used intelligently.
So, what kind of things could this investigative role look for? Here's an example I just thought of; there is no jailor in my setup, but what if there was a town role which could talk anonymously with someone at night just like a jailor without the roleblock? Now this is quite powerful, and most importantly can verify itself so I'd likely not use it, but you get the gist.
(And yes I'm bored because I have already spammed all the recent threads that interest me :P)
---
Suggested Role Summaries:
Evil Journalist - Mafia/Neutral aligned
Abilities: The same as the Journalist, except he is mafia-aligned or evil neutral.
Pros: Added potential for more a more skilled disruption of the Town. The possibility for this role to exist in the setup means the Good Journalist cannot role-claim with impunity.
Cons: Not the most helpful ability for a 'pure' Mafia role. Role-claim implications.
Summary: Well I think it's a fun idea, I think the Journalist is one of the best FM roles and this adds extra meta-game implications. (Contributed mostly by: ME!)
Secret Agent - Town aligned
Abilities: Is given transcripts of the Mafia night chat, though more sensitive information is redacted.
Pros: Requires intelligence to sift through the data. A decent way to have a 'spy' type character. Shouldn't affect Mafia chat too much; subtle Mafia players might be able to exploit the possibility they are being spied on.
Cons: Host-reliant and Host-intensive. Could be annoying for the Mafia players if they feel the need to disguise their speech, non-native English speakers at a disadvantage.
Summary: I like it, I feel I could pull it off, but it needs more work and more clearly-defined parameters before it becomes even a possibility. (Contributed mostly by: TheWaaagh/Deathfire123)
Eavesdropper - Town aligned
Abilities: Players are allowed to PM each other. The Eavesdropper may 'listen in' on certain PMs.
Pros: A good concept. If the Mafia were allowed to PM each other during the day, this would be a really good complementary role and a high priority target for the Mafia.
Cons: Requires constant Host supervision. Requires PMs to be allowed, which is not likely.
Summary: Despite being a good concept, I think it is beyond the limits of this particular M-FM. (Contributed mostly by: Dust)
Gypsy Lady - Town Aligned
Abilities: Randomly selects a hidden role to reveal. Does not reveal the player assigned to that role. Limited to one charge.
Pros: I initially misunderstood CmG, this is actually a cool idea - it helps Town by taking away some of the mystery of the setup. That 'Consort' claiming to be an Escort? Maybe it reveals a Consort in the setup. Think you've been drugged? Turns out there IS a bus driver in the setup.
Cons: Not the most exciting role. Can benefit the Mafia/Neutrals in the right situation.
Summary: I'm keeping this role in mind, I think this has potential. (Contributed mostly by: CmG)
Dreamer - Town aligned
Abilities: Inspired by EpicMafia. Can dream at night. In his dream he is given five names - one or more of these players is not Town. Limited to one or two charges.
Pros: Casts a large enough net to not be efficient by itself.
Cons: Bit too powerful. Creates an immediate 'lynch group'.
Summary: It was worth a mention. If you have just one or two verified roles in that net then things become a bit ez-mode for the Town. Limiting to one use and upping the figure to seven names, or something to that effect, could diminish it somewhat, but I don't hold up much hope for this role as of now. (Contributed mostly by: ME!)
Naive Cop/Corrupt Cop/Insane Cop - Town aligned
Abilities: A sheriff with distorted findings. Naive cop thinks everyone is innocent, Corrupt Cop thinks everyone is guilty, Insane Cop sees guilty people as innocent and vice versa. Another one inspired by EpicMafia/other mafia games, an established role.
Pros: Some thought required, must decipher what kind of cop they are.
Cons: Trial-and-error necessary. It's still a 'hard' investigative role. No chance for a sane Sheriff, so you can't even begin to trust your own results.
Summary: Might be worth trying to balance for other games, but the absence of any kind of Sheriff was intentional here. (Contributed mostly by: TheWaaagh)
Medical Student - Town aligned
Abilities: Player will be told they are a regular Doctor. Has the ability to heal players. Also has the ability to roleblock players. The first night action will be randomised, and then it alternates between the heal and the block.
Pros: Adds some spice to the Doctor, more strategic play is necessary if they are to protect the Town.
Cons: After night 1 the target will probably say they were or were not blocked, turns the Medical Student into quite a powerful role if caught early.
Summary: Since you kinda have to tell the target if they were blocked, it takes away some of the mystery. I'm opposed to complete randomness on every heal/block though, this is still meant to be a strategic game. (Mostly inspired by: Sumikoko)
Chainsaw Doctor (The Sumidoc!) - Town aligned
Abilities: Will be told they are a normal Doctor. Target will not be told they have been healed, unless the heal was successful. On the second successful heal, the Chainsaw Doctor will accidentally chainsaw himself to death.
Pros: Much like a regular Doctor, but harder to role-claim. Still gets to heal, but the second heal should probably be reserved for an important Town role (as the Chainsaw Doctor essentially becomes a toned-down bodyguard).
Cons: Might give Mafia a bit too much leeway, they might try and claim as the Doctor if a Chainsaw Doc is in play since they know who they target at night. Can still be caught out easily in this lie though if Town plays properly.
Summary: This actually fits pretty well into my setup, but it really is just a nerfed version of the Doctor in every single respect. Potential for a role like this. (Mostly inspired by: Sumikoko)
Spy - Town aligned
Abilities: Discovers one random scum target. Does not know who targeted them or what the action was.
Pros: Does not help find scum on its own, but a good complementary role to Lookouts and Detectives.
Cons: Can be a bit OP, since no thought needs to be put into the target. Even if it counts neutral targets, if the target did not die then they're probably not mafia.
Summary: I will have to take this role into consideration alongside my other custom roles. (Most contributed by: Borkbot)
Mortician (Trace Investigator) - Town Aligned
Ability: Can visit a dead body and discover what actions were performed on it (i.e. Witched, framed, investigated). Mortician is not informed on which night these actions occurred.
Pros: A useful role for discovering which roles are in the game, very good for catching out liars.
Cons: Some might say weak, with the built-in lag of checking dead people.
Summary: I think this is a very balanced role, a really great idea. Has the potential to win games, but the Mortician must be careful with his information and bait people into lying. Will almost definitely find a way into the possible roles list, unless someone can see a game-breaking flaw I missed. (Mostly contributed by: Borkbot)
Village Idiot - Town aligned
Abilities: At night can choose to use his ability. Anyone visiting him will get confused and roleblocked. The Village Idiot is not informed if he blocks anyone this way - his lack of social skills means he is unaware that he is a pest. Players receive the same message as if they were blocked by a consort/escort.
Pros: Less harmful to Town, can essentially self-protect himself (kills which pierce immunities cannot pierce blocks, but a role which kills roleblockers will kill the Idiot).
Cons: While able to kinda able to clear himself, the Idiot will have a hard time actively looking for scum. Can help clear other potential Townies if they know what night they were blocked when they visited him, though.
Summary: Quite a nice role, it's low-key and simple yet effective. Could fit into my setup really well, as it gives some of the utility of the Veteran without the extra KPN. (Mostly contributed by: CmG)
Actress/Actor - Mafia aligned
Abilities: Can choose a player at night. Will not be told of their role, but if the Actress/Actor dies they will appear to be that role. Unlimited uses, will appear as last person targeted.
Pros: Not the most pro-active and useful Mafia role in a small setup, but when they die they can seriously disrupt the Town.
Cons: Has to be in the right setup, players must be aware of the possibility of the Actress/Actor.
Summary: Inspired by EpicMafia, this kind of role has been suggested before. In this setup it could prove to be really interesting, as M-FMIII is a game designed to test the players scumhunting skills and make them question every bit of information they receive. Gives some depth to the possible Mafia roles, too.
Watchman - Town aligned
Abilities: Can put himself in a vantage point at night and monitor the Town from afar. Will receive a notification of how many night actions were made that night. Limited uses. If a Framer visits the Watchman, the number will be inaccurate. Cannot track the night action of a Godfather. If someone is blocked, only the blocking action will be counted.
Pros: Useful information when people start role-claiming.
Cons: Can easily inspire a mass-claim, even with the possible anomalies which might occur to the number.
Summary: To retain any shred of usefulness it needs to remain accurate, and if the Watchman has a high chance of getting an accurate reading then it could be a bit powerful. Willing to hear ideas on how to balance it though. (Mostly contributed by: Dust)