M-FM II FAQ Thread

[Fragos]

Hello guys! Everything is ready for organization of the second game of Mini-Forum Mafia!

The decided setup for the future game is - Electro Maniac & Arsonist! Stay tuned for any future sign-ups! The minimum number of players will be 16. The maximum number of players will be 20. However, the optimal amount of players should be 16, as by Luna's suggestion, and we should stay closer to that number. Here is our current setup!

Godfather
Hidden Maifa
Hidden Mafia

Electro Maniac
Arsonist
Hidden Neutral

Sheriff
Investigator
Doctor
Jailor
Hidden Town
Hidden Town
Hidden Town
Hidden Town
Hidden Town
Hidden Town

Bonus Slots (in case if game starts with 20 players)
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen

Keep in mind that Citizens can be improtant too!

Hidden Mafia roles: Consigliere, Consort, Framer, Blackmailer, Janitor, Mafioso
Hidden Neutral roles: Jester, Executioner, Witch, Survivor, Amnesiac
Hidden Town roles: Vigilante, Escort, Detective, Lookout, Bus Driver, Journalist, Bodyguard, Veteran, Armorsmith, Coroner, Mason (only if Citizens are present)

The game will start with day instead of night. On the first day the town will elect the Town Leader. A Town Leader has the power of 3 votes instead of one. This will make the game more interesting, and will make town busy, so that the first day won't turn into a "troll day". Whoever gains the most votes will become Town Leader. You cannot vote for yourself. You must put a vote on first day; otherwise you may be exiled from the game or replaced with substitite. If two or more players are tied for being a Town Leader, a second round of voting will start between then. Day 1 will end as soon as everyone votes and the Town Leader is elected. Mafia chat will be availible only after Day 1 ends.

Stay tuned for more future information!

[Fragos]

Role Options:

Investigator reports:

"Your target appear unsuspicious. He may be a Citizen or Mason, but he can be also the Godfather or Jester."
"Your target has an aptitude for acquiring information. He may be a Sheriff or Investigator, or he may be a Consigliere or Executioner"
"Your target is seen wearing a white coat. He may be a Doctor, or a Electro Maniac."
"Your target owns some gasoline canisters. He may be a Bus Driver, or a Arsonist.
"Your target owns weapons. He may be a Jailor or a Vigilante, or a Mafioso.
"Your target has an unhealthy obsession with dead bodies. They may be a Coroner or a Janitor, or they may be a Witch."
"Your target likes to get close to people. They may be a Bodyguard. They may also be an Escort or a Consort."
"Your target has an aptitude for working behind the scenes. They may be a Lookout. They may also be a Framer or Blackmailer"
"Your target asks a lot of questions. They may be an Amnesiac. Alternatively, they may be a Detective or a Journalist."
"Your target is paranoid and likes to surround himself with protection. He may be a Veteran or an Armorsmith, or just a Survivor."

Amnesiac: Can take ANY role in this game. Is not immune to witching/roleblocking, but his action will take priority (so if he chooses to use his action, it won't be affected). New role will be revealed to town. Will not copy Electro Maniac/Arsonist passive vests.

Armorsmith: Target will be notified if he receives a vest. The vest has an one-time use: furthermore, it allows the target to absorb only one attack. Armorsmith can put a vest on himself, but only once.

Arsonist: Has one passive vest that allows him to survive a single attack from Mafia, Electro Maniac, or non-Jailor town roles. Is not immune to jail executions. Target will be informed that he is doused. Can win with Electro Maniac.

Bodyguard: Bodyguard kills do NOT ignore immunities.

Blackmailer: Target cannot talk during the day. The only phrases target is allowed to say are "I am blackmailed" and "-vote (player name)".

Bus Driver: Cannot target self. Targets will be notified that they are switched. If Bus Driver attempts to switch 2 charged targets, they both will be electrocuted instead.

Consort/Escort: Not immune to roleblocks.

Consigliere: Will not become a new Godfather if current Godfather dies.

Detective: If the target is framed, you will receive false information. Cannot track Godfather.

Doctor: Can protect target from any kind of death except Jailor execution and suicide. Only one attack is prevented: any other attack will still get through. Doctor will be notified if his target's death is sucessfully prevented: "You found your target lying almost dead, and nursed him back to health."

Electro Maniac: Has one passive vest that allows him to survive a single night attack from Mafia, Arsonist, or non-Jailor town roles. Is not immune to jail executions. Target will be informed that he is charged. Can win with Arsonist.

Executioner: Target is always town. If Executioner's target dies at night, then he becomes a Jester.

Framer: Makes a target to appear as random living Mafia role. Detectives and Lookouts will see false reports.

Jailor: A jailed captive will be informed if they are the target of a failed nightkill, roleblock, bus drive or witch attempt. Doused and charged targets can still die even if they are protected by jailor.

Jester: If a Jester is lynched, one of the lynchers will randomly suicide that night. This cannot be healed or prevented in any way. Jester also can visit and annoy someone at night. Target will be notified that thay are annoyed.

Journalist: This Journalist has the same abilities as the Journalist in FMVII, except the Journalist may read the article submitted by the target and add his or her own comments.

Godfather: Immune to all investigations, including Detectives/Lookouts (an Investigator will place him with Citizen/Jester). Immune to night kills. Is not immune to jail executions. If Godfather is both doused and charged at the same time, then he will be vulnerable to either burn or shock.

Jailor: Can jail only if there was no lynch, or if there were 2 consecutive lynches. Can jail on first night. Executing ignores immunities, and the captive will be roleblocked and protected for that night. Can make only 2 executions.

Janitor: Limited to two cleanings. If a cleaning is unsuccessful it will still count towards this limit.

Lookout: If the target is framed, you will receive false information. You will not recognise the Godfather.

Mason: If your target is Mafia or Neutral Killing role, they will know your identity.

Sheriff: Will be informed if his target is a member of the Mafia, an Electro Maniac, or an Arsonist.

Veteran: Can go on alert twice. His attacks do NOT ignore immunities and healing, but when on alert he is immune to all attacks, charge/douse attempts, and manipulation.

Vigilante: Has two shots. Can only use his shots at night.

Witch: Can target self. Can make a player target himself. Target will be informed of witching attempt.

Town Leader: Will have the power of 3 votes when 11 or more people are alive, or power of 2 votes if 10 or less people are alive.

Last Wills: At any time a player can PM me with their last will. The command is '-last will' in the subject line, and the entirety of the body of the message will be posted. If it's too large or unfeasible I will inform you.

Death Notes: The Mafia, Electro Maniac and Arsonist may leave a death note. The Mafia must collaborate with their death note together.

Skip Action: At night, you may choose to PM me '-skip action'. This will let the night end prematurely since it will count as your submitted action. If the Night comes to a natural end, unsubmitted actions will be skipped by default.

[Fragos]

Frequently Asked Questions:

Q: Does electric charges stay on people after Electro Maniac is dead?
A: Yes, they do, and players can be still killed by charge contacts. It's all part of the deception too.

Q: If a charged Doctor visits someone else who is also charged, will only Doctor die, or both Doctor and his targed die?
A: The Doctor will die, but his target will not die from electroshock. Target can still die from any other harmful effects.

Q: If a doused Doctor visits someone else who is also doused, and Arsonist decides to burn doused targets, will only Doctor die, or both Doctor and his targed die?
A: The Doctor will die, but his target will not die from burn. Target can still die from any other harmful effects.

Q: Can the Godfather be killed by Electro Maniac/Arsonist?
A: Alone, each of those killer roles won't do any harm to him. In order to be vulnerable to burn/shock, Godfather must be both doused and charged, which means EM and Arsonist can only defeat him with concerned efforts of each other, or with "help" of town.

Q: Can Electro Maniac charge himself?
A: Yes, he can. If another charged person attempt to visit charged Electro Maniac, that person will die. Electro Maniac can also kill charged player manually, without the nessesity of charging himself.

Q: If victim survives burn, does it retain doused status? If victim survives electroshock, does it retain charged status?
A: No and no. A healed/protected victim will be cleared of relative harm status.

Q: If Electro Maniac is doused while he has his vest, what will happen when Arsonist tries to burn him?
A: Electro Maniac will survive and be cleared of his doused status, but he will also lose his passive vest.

Q: If Arsonist is charged while he has his vest, will he be electrocuted by contact with Electro Maniac or charged person?
A: Arsonist will survive and be cleared of his charged status, but he will also lose his passive vest.


Now, if you have any other questions related to the game, feel free asking then! I'll try to answer then all.

[CmG]

You could give the jailor 2 votes from the start and skip day 1.

he is almost as op as in M - FM 1. Every Escort will get complexes seeing this.

[BBmolla]

Can there be repeats in the hidden towns?

[jaczac]

wIll there be a theme or special roles?

[BBmolla]

Does jailer protect against all attacks?

[Luna]

Will someone get covered in piss and vomit?

[Kromos]

I hope not :(

[Dust]

I hope so :D

[Rocshi]

Is there a theme?
Also, will there be some kind of sign-up?

Excuse my noobness, I'm new to the Forums but play a lot of pubs.

[Dust]

Question: will the arsonist be able to have (a) day-burn/s?

[Guardian]

give the neutrals 2 passive vests at least....

[Deathfire123]

@Guardian, NO!

@Fragos, nerf your Jailor being able to jail even with a lynch is OP in a setup this small, 30 people arent joining this

[Guardian]

but the elctro-maniac and arsonist have it hard to win.......
make them on the same team! :D

[TheWaaagh]

@Fragos, nerf your Jailor being able to jail even with a lynch is OP in a setup this small, 30 people arent joining this

Agreed, if it's going to be roughly the same size as the other one, then the jailor already has plenty of advantages. Let's not have everyone be forced into role-claiming around the jailor like we saw in the other M-FM.

[Rocshi]

@Fragos, nerf your Jailor being able to jail even with a lynch is OP in a setup this small, 30 people arent joining this

+1
(or is it 2 now?)

Arsonist and Electro Maniac CAN win together, so technically the COULD be considered on the same team.

[Nick]

Have you taken into account regarding the addition of 1-4 citizens with the possibility of masons on game balance?

[BBmolla]

@Nick: Balance shouldn't really be that much of a concern in this setup imo tbh, it's way too swingy to actually be able to balance. Potentially 4 kills per night. In such an unpredictable setup, four citizens shouldn't change the balance that much all that much. That's my two cents anyway.

If anything I'd say add another mafia member at 20 players.

[Rocshi]

@Nick: Balance shouldn't really be that much of a concern in this setup imo tbh, it's way too swingy to actually be able to balance. Potentially 4 kills per night. In such an unpredictable setup, four citizens shouldn't change the balance that much all that much. That's my two cents anyway.

If anything I'd say add another mafia member at 20 players.

+1

12 town v. 6 non-town is favoring non,
16 town v. 6 non-town is heavily swung towards town.
Adding another neut would work (non-killing, of course) better than a mob.

[divemaster127]

When will sign ups be?

[BBmolla]

@Roc: You also need to keep in mind the power of the town roles and the fact that non-town are also enemies of each other. Mafia don't really have any means of protection against the Arsonist/Charger, excluding maybe a roleblocker but that's still not really helpful.

Mafia would stand a better chance if they were given a protective role of some sort.

In general this setup is really townsided, considering how easy it is to confirm most of the roles(due to people being told when they are protected, etc.) making it tough to fake claim.

[Rocshi]

@BB- Well, that is true, but there is an excuse for everyone based on the inves description.
Also, the town is against the Arsonist/Charger too.
If there was some protective role for the Maf, I would add that, but I think a non-killing neut would be more interesting.

[BBmolla]

A non-killing neut would be anti-town, but it would not help the odds of the mafia. A good ratio of Mafia to Town, with only a few power roles, should be 10:3. 10:3:1:1:1 with tons of town PRs is not really balanced for the Mafia.

[Rocshi]

The Charger does lead the game into COMPLETE unpredictability, as two townies could die without warning, or a maf and a townie, a maf and an arsonist...so on and so forth. You can't really say a game is favoring one side with the charger in play, imo.

[BBmolla]

Yeah but think about this. A mafia and town are both killed by charger.

Town loses 10% of their power.

Mafia loses 33% of their power.

Now another town and mafia die.

Town loses 20% of their power

Mafia loses 66%.

One mafia dying affects their team far more significantly than a town members dying affects theirs.

[Rocshi]

It's true, but it's a bit harder to kill the mafia then the town.
Then again, it's also harder to kill the neutrals...

Less PRs?

It's 12:3 in the current setup.
That means 4 town for every maf.
That's very hard to win for maf in the current setup.
10:3:1:1:1:1:1 could work, but too unpredictable. Probably your point of less PR's is the best way.

[TheWaaagh]

All I care about is seeing the jailor lose his "jail every day" ability. I just had to play through that bullshit in the last M-FM and it is no bueno. Please, Fragos, for the love of god remove that from his list of abilities.

[Rocshi]

Also, when ARE signups?

[Nick]

The Charger does lead the game into COMPLETE unpredictability, as two townies could die without warning, or a maf and a townie, a maf and an arsonist...so on and so forth. You can't really say a game is favoring one side with the charger in play, imo.

They know that they are charged. They can claim being charged.

[CmG]

12 hours from now. He is from EU

[Rocshi]

They know that they are charged. They can claim being charged.

That is true, it kind of makes them into a Vet for the rest of the game.
But again, you can't favor one side with Charger in play.

@CmG- Well, fuck. Hopefully the spots aren't all filled by the time I get back home like 10 hours later...-_-

[CmG]

duh pm him then. i try to get you signed up.

[Rocshi]

#basiclogic

thanks man. i live in EST, so I'm like 6 hours behind anyway.
when exactly are they in GMT?

[CmG]

its 3: 35 am gmt right now.

[Rocshi]

alright thanks man
i did pm fragos lets see what happens

[Guardian]

make sure the mafia has 4 members.

[BBmolla]

It's true, but it's a bit harder to kill the mafia then the town.
Then again, it's also harder to kill the neutrals...

Less PRs?

It's 12:3 in the current setup.
That means 4 town for every maf.
That's very hard to win for maf in the current setup.
10:3:1:1:1:1:1 could work, but too unpredictable. Probably your point of less PR's is the best way.
It's actually easier to kill mafia than town in the current setup, which is why I suggested Mafia get a doctor.

Less PRs would allow for easier balance because of less variables to consider, but it would also change the entire basis of the setup, so I don't really think that's an option for this one.

Why was the jailor overpowered?

[Nick]

@Fragos
Do post the full order of actions.

Some might want to know if charge occurs before kills/invests, etc.

[Dust]

Why was the jailor overpowered?
Because of who the jailor is.

[Deathfire123]

Because of who the jailor is.

Funny, but its because its easy to prove the claim, and being able to jail even after a lynch is overpowered in small setups

[Fragos]

wIll there be a theme or special roles?

Not really much, we will use our standard theme with standart role names.


Does jailer protect against all attacks?

Jailor's target cannot be doused/charged while in jail at the same turn, but he can still die from burn/electroshock.


will the arsonist be able to have (a) day-burn/s?

No, he must do that at night.


Do post the full order of actions.

I only need to insert the priority of Electro Maniac's actions. The charge attempt occurs before nightkills and investigation results. The "contact effect" happens on the same stack as other kills. Keep in mind that a person can he both charged and electrocuted at the same time.


The Charger does lead the game into COMPLETE unpredictability...

It all depends on how player will react to the message that he is charged. He can openly say to town that he is charged, or he can hide that fact and use it as advantage against Mafia (or if he is Mafia himself).

Phew, most questions should be answered!

[BBmolla]

It all depends on how player will react to the message that he is charged. He can openly say to town that he is charged, or he can hide that fact and use it as advantage against Mafia (or if he is Mafia himself).
Nah this is a bad idea, not claiming when charged doesn't make any sense unless you're Anti-Town because then you know for a fact your team mates won't visit you.

[Dust]

How would the electro-maniac death notes work? His kills are not very...orthodox.

[Fragos]

Simple - when someone dies by electro shock, Electro Maniac's death note will pop up if he has written it already.

[BBmolla]

Can there be repeats in the hidden towns?
Dont think this got answered.

[Kromos]

M-FM I is still going on remember! Someone hurry up and finish the game, day started almost 3 hours ago.

[Zack]

Role Options:

Investigator reports:

"Your target has an unhealthy obsession with dead bodies. They may be a Coroner or a Janitor, or they may be a Witch."
"Your target has an aptitude for working behind the scenes. They may be a Lookout. They may also be a Framer or Blackmailer"
"Your target asks a lot of questions. They may be an Amnesiac. Alternatively, they may be a Detective or a Journalist."
"Your target is paranoid and likes to surround himself with protection. He may be a Veteran or an Armorsmith, or just a Survivor."


These specific 4 are no good...

Coroner/Janitor/Witch = this will most likely result in a lynch, defense will probably be ineffective.

Lookout/Framer/Blackmailer = 99% lynch, no defense will work. Worse than the previous one really.

Amnesiac/Detective/Journalist = 99% safe, will never be lynched, unless it was announced an amnesiac turned into a bad role after this result was read by investigator...

Veteran/Armorsmith/Survivor = 100% safe, will never ever ever be lynched. Whats the point of this? Why...?


Investigator should never have a clear cut result saying "this guy is safe". You need to rebalance these results.

Put Blackmailer with the Veteran and Armorsmith.

Put Lookout, Detective and Framer together.

Coroner and Janitor are alone in their category.

Journalist, Survivor and Witch together.


These are my suggestions... I guess RP-speaking it might not make sense for Blackmailer to be with Veteran and Armorsmith. Still, I mixed it up for the sake of balance, if you have another way to do that go ahead.

[Deathfire123]

100% agree with Zack on this one