[Jailbar 1-S2-1-1522005] - [Graybes 1-S2-1-1983168] - [Vincent 1-S2-1-536197]

[Sookie]

Account Name: Jailbar, Graybes, Vincent
Account ID: Jailbar: 1-S2-1-1522005 | Graybes: 1-S2-1-1983168 | Vincent: 1-S2-1-536197

Crimes Committed: Gamethrowing and possible Cheating.

In-Game Name: Ron Weasly(Jailbar) - blast ended skrewt(Graybes) -Dobby(Vincent)
Summary: a Party of 3 people, 1 mafia and 2 town working against the town in favor of the mafia.
Weasly is mafioso, Graybes is Lookout while Vincent is Mayor:

First night one of the Mafia -suicided as we later found out by day 3 that the GF is AFK which is likely why. anyways so at 6:00 in the replay Jailbar votes the GF right away and asks the town to end it, that the GF is AFK. during the trial he goes on to claim he will kill anyone who votes innocent tonight with his new found godfather powers. so the GF is lynched and the only innocent voter is blast ended skrewt(Graybes), which he trys to attack that night, but the witch ended up controling him and making him kill our investigator. this made me think that maybe its coincidence the chain of events that followed. it wasn't until i watched Graybes and dobby that it became clear these 3 are in a party.

Starting off with Graybes the lookout. at 15:10 you can see him watch me(Sookie/Red) at night, but at 16:10 he makes a random accusation saying that Esti Giorgi(Bodyguard, tho not known at the time) Visited Black, the doctor. this forces the bodyguard to the stand and to reveal his role, he is then killed the following night. also during this day all evil roles are now dead but the last mafia, Ron Weasly(Jailbar) who already revealed a few days before that he was the last mafia by pointing out the AFK godfather and claiming to kill whom ever votes inno on the afk godfather. he then goes on to vote a random person after the bodyguard is pardoned. he is clearly attempting to distract the town from the Real Mafia, Jailbar. at 19:00 he watches the bodyguard that night, whom is visited solely by Ron Weasly. as day comes it is shown that The bodyguard was hit by the mafia, but instead of telling the town that he knows Jailbar was his the only vistor he makes another random accusation claiming that Honeydew visited the Bodyguard the night he is killed. He is very clearly defending Jailbar.

Now for Vincent the Mayor. Vincent is far more subtle about it, but throughout the game, especially after revealing he is mayor he never votes for Jailbar, even with overwhelming evidence from multiple people and his own confession he still refuses to vote him. also he follows Jailbars and Graybes votes as they atempt to sway more town in their direction. he also votes innocent when Jailbar is put to trial.

Misc. Tip offs:
-5:50 Graybes votes Blue the godfather "before" Jailbar says why to vote him, and Vincent moments after. they were already, ready to vote him before "knowing" why.
-all 3 names are stacked together. Jailbar 1st(Host) Graybes 2nd and Vincent 3rd.
-none of them use their powers or point fingers at each other during the game except for when Jailbar is about to be lynched. then they all work together to distract votes.

After close review of the replay i have concluded this:

*Jailbar, Graybes and Vincent are obviously in a party and know each other.
*Jailbar, Graybes and Vincent are possibly using out of game communication to game access to information they shouldn't know.
*Graybes is clearly game throwing. his finding the Mafioso(Jailbar) at night then lieing about it conclusively proves this.
*Graybes and Vincent are Game throwing by not voting off the last Mafia(Jailbar) with overwhelming evidence from multiple people and a confession from Jailbar himself.

My recamended punishment:

Jailbar > Watchlist - he voting habits could possibly be argued against, but is still very suspicious and strongly hint at him working with Vincent and Graybes.
Vincent > Watchlist - his not voting the mafia could possibly be argued against, but is still very suspicious and strongly hinting at him working with both Jailbar and Graybes
Graybes > Vote Kick - He is very clearly Gamethrowing and possibly cheating by working against the town as lookout feeding false evidence and defending Jailbar at every opportunity he can.

*on a side note: good god, making a Detailed Report takes a long time! i spent 2 hours on this! XD

[monster]

Mhm, definitely guilty. :)

Graybes seems super annoying, especially at then end when he says "replays don't prove anything". Well, they kinda do. Especially when you are that obvious.

[Ambient]

Approved.

[Sookie]

This is the second report on Jailbot in the past 24 hours.. Approved and merging with other thread.my report is on a "Jailbar" while aescwine's is "Jailbot"

it's 2 different people silly :P

[Ambient]

*Fixed

[Jailbar]

You're allowed to be friends with people in the game, as long as you don't share in game information using skype. No game was thrown as the game was already over, and the town won. Graybes and Vincent were flustered at the end and gave BS excuses because of the fear of being banned by these people who were extremely pissed off for no reason. NO GAME WAS RUINED EXCEPT BY THE TWO MAFIA WHO LEFT IN THE BEGINNING. The game was delayed for a few days because two people had a little fun and didnt vote off someone who was obviously going to die in the end anyway. Please give a specific reason why I am on a watch list.

Edit: Furthermore, both Graybes and Vincent are newer players who really like the game, and this super strict enforcement due to one power-hungry guy is turning them off from the game that I love. You can see how he bragged about getting people banned in the last few words of the game. We aren't the people you need to be disciplining. It was a joke game and these guys aren't likely to do this again. Your decision was trigger-happy in the first place, and it really affects people. Please reverse it and be less willing to watchlist people in the future. It didn't do anything but punish supporters of Mafia and make a lot more people unhappy.

----------

"Crime": Trolling Trolling is acting like an idiot for the pursuit of hilarity, or otherwise screwing with people in a manner that does not ruin the game. Usual Punishment: Nothing Yep, that's right, nothing will happen to regular trolls.

Crime: Griefing Griefing is similar to trolling, but actually results in the game being ruined. This is trolling taken too far. Usual Punishment: Watch List

Copy and pasted from the announcement. NO GAME WAS RUINED EXCEPT BY THE TWO MAFIA WHO LEFT. IT'S CLEAR WHICH CATEGORY WE FALL INTO. CARE MORE ABOUT YOUR PLAYERS, NOT POWER HUNGRY TADDLE TALES. THANKS.

----------

[Ice52berg]

I have watched this replay numerous times and would like to offer my opinion. Keep in mind: I am not a keeper and am offering an opinion only.

It is clear that there is something suspicious about Jailbar and Graybes. They both decided to lynch the AFK GF prior to saying anything in chat. This is also confirmed as Gandalf was visited by Jailbar and Graybes clearly indicated someone else being the visitor. I believe there is definitely some outside communication occuring here and recommend to keep the Watch List offense.

As for Vincent, his voting habits seem to differ from the rest. Through the name pick screen, he also appears to be inexperienced as he has no hats available. He doesn't seem to go along with any of their votes and has a mind of his own. If he was conspiring with Jailbar and Graybes, he would have hastily voted the AFK GF like they both did. I recommend removing from the watch list, but keep an eye out for future reports.

Again, this is just an outside opinion. An extra set of eyes, if you will, and does not actual mean this is what is going to happen. Even if they stay on the watch list, it is only a week long thing and will end as long as no further crimes are committed.

[Jailbar]

I have watched this replay numerous times and would like to offer my opinion. Keep in mind: I am not a keeper and am offering an opinion only.

It is clear that there is something suspicious about Jailbar and Graybes. They both decided to lynch the AFK GF prior to saying anything in chat. This is also confirmed as Gandalf was visited by Jailbar and Graybes clearly indicated someone else being the visitor. I believe there is definitely some outside communication occuring here and recommend to keep the Watch List offense.

As for Vincent, his voting habits seem to differ from the rest. Through the name pick screen, he also appears to be inexperienced as he has no hats available. He doesn't seem to go along with any of their votes and has a mind of his own. If he was conspiring with Jailbar and Graybes, he would have hastily voted the AFK GF like they both did. I recommend removing from the watch list, but keep an eye out for future reports.

Again, this is just an outside opinion. An extra set of eyes, if you will, and does not actual mean this is what is going to happen. Even if they stay on the watch list, it is only a week long thing and will end as long as no further crimes are committed.

ONCE AGAIN: Having friends isn't against the rules, and no matter how much you think you have proof that we shared in game information, there is none. So no rules were broken. Furthermore, this game was a joke game that lasted for 2 seconds, and if a bunch of people skyped in it, I wouldn't have given two shits. The town won, and 2/3 of the mafia left in the first day. They ruined the game, not anyone else. I was the last 1/3 of the mafia, and I'm not complaining about those 2 at all, because it was a quick game that didn't matter. No punishment was deserved in any way, shape or form.

I haven't watched the replay ever, so I don't remember exactly what happened. But you're neglecting to comment that this game was a joke of a game and doesn't warrant putting 3 goodhearted people on a naughty list. I could go through the replay and prove to you that we weren't cheating or collaborating in a cheating way (possibly in a trolling, non-punishable way), and I could post up a replay of my last 10 games and prove that I'm not a cheater, but it isn't worth hours of my time. The point of my coming to this thread was to express discontent at the OP's overzealous reporting, and since it was posted a few days ago, our sentence is almost up anyway. It would be nice for the person who put us on watchlist to just admit he was wrong based on a strict reading of the rules, or at least attempt to justify himself, hell, I would be glad if he just said he got carried away, since this was the most insignificant game ever, but if I can't get that then I have nothing else to say.

Edit: I suppose that a point to this would be to clear our names so that the next idiot who reports us for being OBVIOUS FRIENDS doesn't have the advantage of "well they're repeat offenders!". So yeah, I'd like this to be not counted as an offense.

[Graybes]

The only game throwers in this game were the two mafia who ruined the game for Jailbar in the beginning. THEY ruined the game for Jailbar and HE is the one that get's punished? Yeah that makes perfect sense. The game was over after the first night. Everyone knew Jailbar was the last mafia because he announced it knowing there was no way of him winning because his two mafia teammates already threw the game.

There was no game throwing or cheating by the three of us, only playful trolling because we knew the game was over. I'm not going to deny the fact that I was trolling. I'm not a liar. But last time I checked, trolling isn't a punishable offense. Did the Town still get their deserved win yes? So why did we all get punished for having some harmless fun? Because some guy knows he can abuse the report system. We play legit all the time. We ARE friends and playing with friends is allowed. We come across actual game throwers and cheaters constantly and have to deal with them. So the one time we troll for some laughs when we know the game is over we get punished?

And to the guy who called me annoying in this thread. I'm right, I knew this replay wouldn't prove anything that I was accused of because it doesn't. What I didn't know was how power hungry some people would be and how who ever is in charge of the punishing would forget their own rules. So according to this thread, three people were put on the watch list because they were friends and they were trolling in a game that was already won by the town. That the only thing that can be "proved" in that replay. The replay doesn't even prove that we are friends. All of the "proof" you have of our friendship could easily be coincidental. I guess all the idiots that play this game, say stupid things and vote terribly are all friends with each other right? I guess all the players in any game are friends because they all appear together in the list of players. But once again I am no liar. We are friends and that isn't a crime to be friends.

Was a game thrown because of us? No
Was there cheating? No
Did the correct team get the win? Yes
Was there trolling? Yes
Did three nice players get punished with their first offense for unjustified reasons? Yes

You mods need to review the games own rules for punishment. But yeah, thanks for giving three good players a punishment.

[Sookie]

this super strict enforcement due to one power-hungry guy is turning them off from the game that I love. You can see how he bragged about getting people banned in the last few words of the game.First off let me start with noting that i have no powers here, I'm just an active member of the mafia community; i am in no way power-hungry either.


"Crime": Trolling Trolling is acting like an idiot for the pursuit of hilarity, or otherwise screwing with people in a manner that does not ruin the game. Usual Punishment: Nothing Yep, that's right, nothing will happen to regular trolls.

Crime: Griefing Griefing is similar to trolling, but actually results in the game being ruined. This is trolling taken too far. Usual Punishment: Watch List

Copy and pasted from the announcement. NO GAME WAS RUINED EXCEPT BY THE TWO MAFIA WHO LEFT. IT'S CLEAR WHICH CATEGORY WE FALL INTO. CARE MORE ABOUT YOUR PLAYERS, NOT POWER HUNGRY TADDLE TALES. THANKS.
Crimes Committed: Gamethrowing and possible Cheating.Crime: Game-Throwing This is intentionally playing to lose. An example of this is a Mafioso giving out the names of his fellow Mafia to the town during his trial. Usual Punishment: KickVote List
Crime: Cheating Cheating is using methods unintended by the game (such as abusing Skype) to gain an unfair advantage over other players. Usual Punishment: KickVote List

considering you just got watch listed this is only a slip on the wrist. watch list doesn't last long either.


So according to this thread, three people were put on the watch list because they were friends and they were trolling in a game that was already won by the town. That the only thing that can be "proved" in that replay. The replay doesn't even prove that we are friends. All of the "proof" you have of our friendship could easily be coincidental.
I haven't watched the replay ever, so I don't remember exactly what happened.i recommended reading the original post a little more closely and watching the replay before attempting to defend yourselves. also as you all know there is nothign wrong with playing with your friends, or even being in skype with your friends. what is cheating is sharing information with them that they can't "know" without involvement within the game. which is pointed out in the OP and proven in the replay, which you haven't watched.


Was a game thrown because of us? No
Was there cheating? No
Did the correct team get the win? Yes
Was there trolling? Yes
Did three nice players get punished with their first offense for unjustified reasons? Yes

You mods need to review the games own rules for punishment. But yeah, thanks for giving three good players a punishment.
1. it was clearly thrown by you out of the 3, alot of evidence supporting it.
2. there is evidence supporting that you guys are sharing information via means outside of the game.
3. there's nothing wrong with trolling, that is not what this report is about, read the OP
4. you where punished for justified reasons, clearly pointed out in the OP and replay

as to date i have played almost 400 games of mafia (which compared to some of the others here isn't that much) in all those games i have only reported a handful of people. to make a good, solid report takes a long time. for me about 2 hours of watching, rewatching and reviewing the replay + typing up the thread with all the evidence easily laid out for the mods and keepers to find. i don't even bother attempting a report if I'm not pretty sure someone is up to something fishy, its too much work.

while i do admit i feel a little bad as jailbar mentioned 2 of you are newer players, but seeing as the punishment is bad or long it inst so bad. I'm hoping ya learned your lesson from this. you can play with friends and chat with friend while playing the game, you just cant share or use information that wouldn't otherwise be able available to you within the game. also, gamethrowing is bad, don't do it!

[Jailbar]

How does the fact that they did things to keep me in for a couple more days prove that we shared out of game information? I didn't watch the replay but I have a good memory, and there's also the fact that I know we didn't, because I didn't. So please say specifically why you think we did. Iceberg mentioned that Graybes voted the same person as me shortly after I did. It proves nothing about sharing out of game information. I haven't heard anything so far that shows me or anyone else as a cheater.

And I STRESS that no game was thrown, you won the freaking game, watch the replay yourself if you don't remember. There was game stalling, get over it. They're new players and didn't know that someone was going to report them when no harm was done to anyone (except me, if you remember). I'm extremely curious why, in your 400 games, you decided to single out us? It seems just like things didn't go the way you wanted so you went to prove you had power over us. I have played 500-600 games (I think?), and reported exactly one person for ruining a game. Plenty of times, I've disliked someone for playing not exactly the structure I wanted, but who gives a crap in the long run, it's a troller's game. Your game wasn't even ruined. I can't believe I have to justify it further than that.

The punishment was totally meaningless because it didn't even prevent us from playing, but like I said, if someone else taddles on us for minor trolling or a silly offense, this is now on our record. So it does affect us highly. We could get on the kickvote list or something if another minor topic like this came up again. I suggest you just deal with the fact that there are trolls in mafia and retract your accusation. If I reported things as stupid as this, I would report every single game. I could follow you around and manage to find some example of something which would get you on a watch list. How would you appreciate that? But I wouldn't, so don't worry about it. I'm not that kind of person. I'm a fun-loving Mafia player like all of my friends. And we don't deserve this.

[Graybes]

I don't give a crap how long watch list lasts for. It's the fact that we don't deserve to have anything on our records for trolling and being accused of cheating with no actual proof. I watched the replay and when Jailbar voted for blue near 5:50 and I voted almost 5 seconds later. That proves we were cheating? Because people vote with the crowd is now cheating? Damn, I guess that means every time someone gets random lynched after night one because someone starts a vote and everyone blindly follows that means they are cheating! You don't have an single ounce of proof that we were cheating because no cheating was going on. The only thing you have on us is that we are friends.

There was only one mafia the entire game and you think I was game throwing when all I was doing was trolling because I knew the game would be over very quickly? I also don't understand how a game is thrown when the team that deserves the win won. I don't understand how someone could spend two hours of their time writing a report for people that didn't even ruin your game. I guess it took so long to write up because you had to fabricate the "proof" of us cheating. Let me point out that part of your proof that we were cheating says that Vincent voted for the GF after Jailbar called him out so that means we were planning the whole time to vote the GF. SOLID proof you got there. Your "proof" right there is nothing more than assumptions just because we are friends.

But once again thanks for getting three legit mafia players watch listed. If reporting really works this way I guess pretty soon every player will end up banned. Better get my Mafia fix in now before the only player left is Sookie because he never trolls. I'll make sure to keep an eye out now for any game where I can somehow fabricate proof in order to get people punished. I guess any game where a town member votes or plays terribly because they aren't smart or just a bad player I can somehow twist the replay to make it seem like he is cheating with one of the mafia members. DAMN that is going to be a lot of reports made! But hey if that kind of proof works with your report then it should certainly work for me.

Oh by the way. I learned no lesson because there was no lesson to be learned. There was no cheating going on and no game was thrown. Wait, actually I did learn a lesson. I learned that you can easily abuse the report system if you can write a report that accuses people of things based solely off of assumptions. Don't just shrug this off like it's no big deal since it was only a watch list punishment. You would be pissed too if you had an offence on your record based on things that weren't even true.

[Sookie]

i understand where your coming from and town did win, but its about the principle more so then the win. as far as me singling you guys out goes as i said, i only bother reporting those who are obvious about it. I'm the type of person that will take the time to do what i feel is right, call me power hungry, over zealous or self righteous, it still doesn't change the fact you guys did what you did. doesn't matter if you have played 1 game or 1000 games, rules are rules.

your sentence is almost over anyways. you should just take it for what it is, a warning. just don't don't stuff like it again because your name is now known here.

with that said i am sorry for bringing the hassle on you guys i feel bad about it. just remember replays don't lie. if you do something suspicious people like me will find it, and they will report you.

[Graybes]

i understand where your coming from and town did win, but its about the principle more so then the win. as far as me singling you guys out goes as i said, i only bother reporting those who are obvious about it. I'm the type of person that will take the time to do what i feel is right, call me power hungry, over zealous or self righteous, it still doesn't change the fact you guys did what you did. doesn't matter if you have played 1 game or 1000 games, rules are rules.

your sentence is almost over anyways. you should just take it for what it is, a warning. just don't don't stuff like it again because your name is now known here.

with that said i am sorry for bringing the hassle on you guys i feel bad about it.

So then I guess they should change the crime/punishment sticky on this board to say that trolling now has a punishment of watch list. Where can I suggest that change to be made? Is there a head moderator? Don't want other players getting in trouble for trolling so that sticky needs to be updated with accurate information.

[Ambient]

While your prose is long. It is not convincing. The replay doesn't lie.

[Graybes]

While your prose is long. It is not convincing. The replay doesn't lie.

No the replay doesn't lie. The replay also doesn't show any actual proof of cheating. Just friends playing together trolling a lost cause game ruined by the two leaver mafias. Since where are assumptions proof?

Kind of sucks to get punished based on assumptions. That's all I'm saying. The entire report is assumptions based off the fact that we are friends so he is making our actions LOOK like we are cheating. Also the replay doesn't show any game being thrown sooo. Yeah just an unjustified punish here or a punish for trolling. Classy move.

[Jailbar]

Neither of you have yet to say a single reason why I should be on a watch list. Your lack of caring at all seriously offends me, Ambient. I no longer wish to play a game in which I have to watch my back this carefully. I was in a game the other day with two moderators, and when I was talking about the report system or something, they told me to chill the fuck out, and that they would handle it. The report system and moderators aren't meant to be Big Brother, they're meant to deter and stop game ruiners. I've played every game of Mafia that I've ever played with the intention of everyone in my games having fun. I've contributed suggestions and ideas on the old board which have been implemented and helped the community. But what the community has evolved into, I no longer care to play with or help to have fun. Especially the corrupt reporting system. Not that any of you know me or care, but I'm done. Thanks for your helpful report, citizen.

[Sookie]

Neither of you have yet to say a single reason why I should be on a watch list. Your lack of caring at all seriously offends me, Ambient. I no longer wish to play a game in which I have to watch my back this carefully. I was in a game the other day with two moderators, and when I was talking about the report system or something, they told me to chill the fuck out, and that they would handle it. The report system and moderators aren't meant to be Big Brother, they're meant to deter and stop game ruiners. I've played every game of Mafia that I've ever played with the intention of everyone in my games having fun. I've contributed suggestions and ideas on the old board which have been implemented and helped the community. But what the community has evolved into, I no longer care to play with or help to have fun. Especially the corrupt reporting system. Not that any of you know me or care, but I'm done. Thanks for your helpful report, citizen.*sigh* you still haven't read my post or watched the replay have you? so let me point out key points for you then.


-5:50 Graybes votes Blue the godfather "before" Jailbar says why to vote him, and Vincent moments after. they were already, ready to vote him before "knowing" why.
-all 3 names are stacked together. Jailbar 1st(Host) Graybes 2nd and Vincent 3rd.
-none of them use their powers or point fingers at each other during the game except for when Jailbar is about to be lynched. then they all work together to distract votes.Reason number 1. "Potential" Cheating. the fact that they voted with you before any clear vitrifaction why in game strongly suggests outside of game communication and sharing of information that would otherwise be unknown. the fact your names are stacked up together strongly suggests that you joined the game as a party, farther increasing the likeliness that you may be using out of game communication to leak info to one another. also with your behavior during the game this also supports it. this is enough for a watchlist from what i have seen in other reports, but it doesn't stop there.


Starting off with Graybes the lookout. at 15:10 you can see him watch me(Sookie/Red) at night, but at 16:10 he makes a random accusation saying that Esti Giorgi(Bodyguard, tho not known at the time) Visited Black, the doctor. this forces the bodyguard to the stand and to reveal his role, he is then killed the following night. also during this day all evil roles are now dead but the last mafia, Ron Weasly(Jailbar) who already revealed a few days before that he was the last mafia by pointing out the AFK godfather and claiming to kill whom ever votes inno on the afk godfather. he then goes on to vote a random person after the bodyguard is pardoned. he is clearly attempting to distract the town from the Real Mafia, Jailbar. at 19:00 he watches the bodyguard that night, whom is visited solely by Ron Weasly. as day comes it is shown that The bodyguard was hit by the mafia, but instead of telling the town that he knows Jailbar was his the only vistor he makes another random accusation claiming that Honeydew visited the Bodyguard the night he is killed. He is very clearly defending Jailbar.Reason 2. putting you aside for a moment this alone is a very serious offense done by Graybes which in some cases can get him insta votekick listed. anyways, his aiding you like this puts more suspicion on you possibly cheating by his attempting to distract people from voting for you.

there ya go, 2 good reasons for your punishment. in fact you guys should be thankful with ambient and DR for only getting watchlisted for first offense. don't blame the system for your own wrong doing, it isn't corrupt. you simply got caught and are choosing to be ignorant to the fact you are in the wrong here. so you play it out to make you seem like the victim, but all the evidence is there plain as day. you just choose to ignore it.

[EvilValk]

This is absurd. Honestly: watch the replay. It shows everything you would need to know, there is no way around it or arguing your way out of it. Stop beating a dead tree. You cheated, you're punished. End of story.