please remove this sub-forum.

[ArchangelEZ]

This forum is literally pointless, It's like 3 people in this autistic clan with someone in it who happened to be a moderator and made a sub-forum for it via mod abuse. Please remove this sub-forum or I will seriously report the moderator who made it to the administrators of this website. If you don't want your mod powers removed, please remove this sub-forum. Also your clan is garbage and competitive mafia is not a thing LOL. so ya power absuing mod and his 2 friends are clan fl0w gg wp. nice clan dude, sorry but i dont consider 3 ppl a clan, more like a group of autistic kids lol. ur sub-forum has been reported to the admins already, just thought id let u power abusing mod know. gg wp trash clan fl0w, stay EZ kids.

[Damus_Graves]

Rekted

I moved this thread to general discussion due to what is being said and how.
I feel like this topic can be debated and, despite arch's crass language, it's a half decent subject.

Have at it.


Topic:
Clan Fl0w and their presence on sc2mafia

[ArchangelEZ]

ok sure, general discussion is fine, so i will just assume the moderator "Water" made the sub-forum for his clan. Now first of all this is completely unfair to other clans in mafia in the first place. Why does his clan take priority over others that he gets a sub-forum for it just because hes a moderator? This is literally power abuse and unfair to others. The staff for this site is literally a complete joke, understandable considering the site is a shadow of what it was 2 years ago or so. Doesn't give him the right to make a sub-forum for his stupid clan of his 3 friends just because he's a moderator. This kid should be demoted in the first place for doing this. But, he's a benefactor, clearly paid for his moderator since DR is so desperate for donations now. So he won't be demoted most likely.
Ah well, a complete joke of a sub-forum will probably stay up because nobody gives a fuck anyway, what can you do.

-Archangel, God of Mafia

[Damus_Graves]

It's actually unfortunate that you feel this way.
Now, personally, I agree that showing any level of favoritism towards one clan over others is pretty questionable. From what I have seen/heard Clan Fl0w is a new clan that has aspirations to be a competitive mafia clan and their founder, Water, is now a mod of this newly made sub forum. Why this happened I am not entirely sure. Word through the grape vine suggests that no actual money passed hands and this end result was the aftermath of some conversation I was not privy too.

I suspect that if no interest is shown in this clan and it's competitive scene that the subforum would get closed. But this is all speculation.

[Mugy]

Moderators can not make forums, this was the decision of admins.
Also moved to site discussion because site discussion exists.

I don't really have a problem with the forum as there really aren't any other Mafia clans, Corleone kinda died with landstander. I'm also pretty sure that other clans that exist having their forum on here is open to discussion.

[SuperJack]

Why does the sub forum exist? Because he asked for it.
He was given mod powers for that past of the forum.
Admins made this decision.
D.R. does not need donations.

[Cryptonic]

You can mod a section w/o getting moderator status, though. Just sayin'
Don't see why we give someone access to staff-only sections just cause he has a Mafia clan lol

[bwcPorscha]

My offer from your last extremely rude and unnecessary comment about something you aren't apart of still stands, Archangel :) just give me the signal when you're ready.

[Lysergic]

You can mod a section w/o getting moderator status, though. Just sayin'
Don't see why we give someone access to staff-only sections just cause he has a Mafia clan lol

Yeah, that seems unnecessary.

[Bruno]

This is bullshit. If any faggot can't just go out and make a clan and get a subforum - why do these faggots get to?

Do what clans did in the 2000s

Make a fucking phpboard.

Absolutely retarded


The real fucking kick in the ass is the fact they got the subforum because of their GOALS

THEY DIDN'T DO SHIT TO EARN IT THEY MADE GOALS LOL

[Water]

It's actually unfortunate that you feel this way.
Now, personally, I agree that showing any level of favoritism towards one clan over others is pretty questionable. From what I have seen/heard Clan Fl0w is a new clan that has aspirations to be a competitive mafia clan and their founder, Water, is now a mod of this newly made sub forum. Why this happened I am not entirely sure. Word through the grape vine suggests that no actual money passed hands and this end result was the aftermath of some conversation I was not privy too.

I suspect that if no interest is shown in this clan and it's competitive scene that the subforum would get closed. But this is all speculation.

There was no money passed at all for this decision. I made the recommendation to Mikevipe, who passed the word to DR, who shared the idea with the admins. The admins and DR collectively agreed to create a subforum within sc2mafia.com.

[Water]

This forum is literally pointless, It's like 3 people in this autistic clan with someone in it who happened to be a moderator and made a sub-forum for it via mod abuse. Please remove this sub-forum or I will seriously report the moderator who made it to the administrators of this website. If you don't want your mod powers removed, please remove this sub-forum. Also your clan is garbage and competitive mafia is not a thing LOL. so ya power absuing mod and his 2 friends are clan fl0w gg wp. nice clan dude, sorry but i dont consider 3 ppl a clan, more like a group of autistic kids lol. ur sub-forum has been reported to the admins already, just thought id let u power abusing mod know. gg wp trash clan fl0w, stay EZ kids.

Let me try to boil this into coherent arguments:
1. The forum serves no purpose.
Response: The forum serves an important purpose of allowing clan members discuss clan-related matters, along with competitive mafia ideas.

2. The clan has few members.
Response: The clan is indeed new. However, within the past several days, it has welcomed 18 members. These are not random spam invites. They were selected. I am hoping to get the clan near 100 within the month. I don't think it will be too hard given the large number of mafia players.

3. I abused mod powers to create a sub-forum.
Response: I did not create the forums. I do not believe it is possible for me to create sub-forums. It was created directly by one of the administrators, after DR and the other admins reached a unanimous consensus.

4. Competitive mafia does not exist, therefore the clan has no grounds to stand on.
Response: Competitive Mafia can exist. Let me explain why.

When considering games, we can view it from a luck-skill dichotomy. For games like the slot machine, it is 100% luck, for games like chess, it is about 100% skill. For games like StarCraft, it's a mixture. Skill is a big factor, but luck is a factor too. You'll find that competitive gaming generally exists only when skill influences luck. For example, Poker may seem like a game of luck, but with proper bank management, understanding of probabilities, knowing tells, etc., it becomes a game of skill. That's why there is a huge competitive industry behind it.

Skilled Mafia players also have a greater chance of winning in Mafia. There are a lot of facets of Mafia which rewards expertise and skill. Let me list a few examples:
1. Properly understanding the roles and game mechanics. It is not easy to have a mastery of it. Just as how those who understand how SC2 units work are better at SC2 1v1, knowing the game mechanics will give you the leverage in mafia. You will know who is lying, you will know your limitations and capabilities, along with your opponent's.

2. Conversational and debating skills. There are specific techniques that yield different outcomes. An obvious example is claiming that you're protective N1, as veteran, and luring a killer to attack you. Knowing what to say, and how to argue and claim is an important skill not only in Mafia, but also in real life as well. An entire profession (legal) is build around this idea. How does one articulate his arguments? What arguments should he make in order to influence the votes? These are all actually topics studied by those in the legal profession. Albeit, Mafia may be a cruder example of it, it does help refine debating skills.

3. Logic and deduction. I am able to lynch all evils within two days as Marshall with just one group execution). When someone makes a claim, you need check it against the available roles. You need to cross-reference it against other people's claims. You need to consider how long it takes for them to respond back to you. The credibility of the LW needs to be considered. You also need to consider how difficult it is to prove a role (example, doctor vs bus driver). Doing all of this within minutes requires a lot of skill (I actually use a spreadsheet with a list of all 15 numbers/colors, and wrote down claims, cross-referenced, then deduce whenever I am Marshall). You use logic and deduction everywhere in the game.

Mafia can be intellectually stimulating when you want it to. Unfortunately, the vast majority do not play mafia seriously. Most people are often multi-tasking or zoned out as they play. This ruins the experience for competitive players like myself (I am grandmaster Protoss). Our goal is to create a competitive atmosphere for like-minded individuals. Hopefully, in-house tourneys will help serve as a catalyst to achieve this.

Considering your use of vocabulary, I'm sure everything I just said went right over your head. In conclusion: I'm grandmaster Protoss; Trust me; It will work.

[Brendan]

I think a simple solution to this is to add a general clan sub forum. We can appoint a Moderator to the section, and said mod can accept applications for clans to receive a section within the sub forum. Leaders of each clan can have a new user group to help moderate their section and can establish rules within their own section if desired.

[mikevipe]

I may be wrong here, however I don't believe any other clans have ever even asked for a sub forum. Water asked for one and it obviously was agreed on. If you are claiming some sort of unfair judgment has taken place, have you ever asked for a thread for your clan? Do you have a legitimate clan which wishes to be mainly Mafia based?

[Orpz]

Let me try to boil this into coherent arguments:
1. The forum serves no purpose.
Response: The forum serves an important purpose of allowing clan members discuss clan-related matters, along with competitive mafia ideas.

2. The clan has few members.
Response: The clan is indeed new. However, within the past several days, it has welcomed 18 members. These are not random spam invites. They were selected. I am hoping to get the clan near 100 within the month. I don't think it will be too hard given the large number of mafia players.

3. I abused mod powers to create a sub-forum.
Response: I did not create the forums. I do not believe it is possible for me to create sub-forums. It was created directly by one of the administrators, after DR and the other admins reached a unanimous consensus.

4. Competitive mafia does not exist, therefore the clan has no grounds to stand on.
Response: Competitive Mafia can exist. Let me explain why.

When considering games, we can view it from a luck-skill dichotomy. For games like the slot machine, it is 100% luck, for games like chess, it is about 100% skill. For games like StarCraft, it's a mixture. Skill is a big factor, but luck is a factor too. You'll find that competitive gaming generally exists only when skill influences luck. For example, Poker may seem like a game of luck, but with proper bank management, understanding of probabilities, knowing tells, etc., it becomes a game of skill. That's why there is a huge competitive industry behind it.

Skilled Mafia players also have a greater chance of winning in Mafia. There are a lot of facets of Mafia which rewards expertise and skill. Let me list a few examples:
1. Properly understanding the roles and game mechanics. It is not easy to have a mastery of it. Just as how those who understand how SC2 units work are better at SC2 1v1, knowing the game mechanics will give you the leverage in mafia. You will know who is lying, you will know your limitations and capabilities, along with your opponent's.

2. Conversational and debating skills. There are specific techniques that yield different outcomes. An obvious example is claiming that you're protective N1, as veteran, and luring a killer to attack you. Knowing what to say, and how to argue and claim is an important skill not only in Mafia, but also in real life as well. An entire profession (legal) is build around this idea. How does one articulate his arguments? What arguments should he make in order to influence the votes? These are all actually topics studied by those in the legal profession. Albeit, Mafia may be a cruder example of it, it does help refine debating skills.

3. Logic and deduction. I am able to lynch all evils within two days as Marshall with just one group execution). When someone makes a claim, you need check it against the available roles. You need to cross-reference it against other people's claims. You need to consider how long it takes for them to respond back to you. The credibility of the LW needs to be considered. You also need to consider how difficult it is to prove a role (example, doctor vs bus driver). Doing all of this within minutes requires a lot of skill (I actually use a spreadsheet with a list of all 15 numbers/colors, and wrote down claims, cross-referenced, then deduce whenever I am Marshall). You use logic and deduction everywhere in the game.

Mafia can be intellectually stimulating when you want it to. Unfortunately, the vast majority do not play mafia seriously. Most people are often multi-tasking or zoned out as they play. This ruins the experience for competitive players like myself (I am grandmaster Protoss). Our goal is to create a competitive atmosphere for like-minded individuals. Hopefully, in-house tourneys will help serve as a catalyst to achieve this.

Considering your use of vocabulary, I'm sure everything I just said went right over your head. In conclusion: I'm grandmaster Protoss; Trust me; It will work.

damn and i thought i was good for being Master zerg

[BananaCucho]

Can I have a sub-forum for the 5parky clan please? And make me the only person that can post in it, since I'm the only member :)

[watermeloann]

No way! Better make a tafkal clan forum than a one member in the clan :P

[Cryptonic]

I may be wrong here, however I don't believe any other clans have ever even asked for a sub forum. Water asked for one and it obviously was agreed on. If you are claiming some sort of unfair judgment has taken place, have you ever asked for a thread for your clan? Do you have a legitimate clan which wishes to be mainly Mafia based?

That's because we used to have rules that you weren't allowed to promote SC2 Clans on the site.
I think it'd be pretty cool to have a "Clans" forum with different subforums for each clan, personally. Just make it have prerequisites, like at least 10 members (verified by a Staff member) or something.

[Balthy]

Creating a sub-forum for each clan would take too much space on the site. What clan really needs an entire sub-forum anyway? I am for a "SC2 Mafia Clans" forum with one thread for each clan.

[Cryptonic]

Creating a sub-forum for each clan would take too much space on the site. What clan really needs an entire sub-forum anyway? I am for a "SC2 Mafia Clans" forum with one thread for each clan.

Wouldn't really take space at all, cause you'd only see the Parent forum on the main page.
And one thread per clan seems pointless if a clan wants to accept applications or plan events on the site. Would be hard to know what's going on. And if clans could post multiple posts in 1 section, it would be difficult to decipher what thread belongs to who.
I guess threads could have Mandatory Prefixes that belong to each Clan, that could work if they were all in one subforum.

[BananaCucho]

Wouldn't really take space at all, cause you'd only see the Parent forum on the main page.
And one thread per clan seems pointless if a clan wants to accept applications or plan events on the site. Would be hard to know what's going on. And if clans could post multiple posts in 1 section, it would be difficult to decipher what thread belongs to who.
I guess threads could have Mandatory Prefixes that belong to each Clan, that could work if they were all in one subforum.
Who knows, an idea like this could revive the site.

Make my clan the exception plz. 1 member, not accepting applicants at this time or ever :)

[Cryptonic]

Ah, another problem with not giving each clan their own subforum is that we can't have Clan Leader moderate their own threads. I will discuss the possibility of this, but there would have to be at least 3 clans that would want it for it to be worthwhile.

Wouldn't even have to be 100% focused towards Mafia. Could be Social or just Arcade, or even Matchmaking. Idc, as it would increase traffic and even if Mafia wasn't the main factor, coming to site to check their clan shit would remind people about the game lol

[Slaol]

Ah, another problem with not giving each clan their own subforum is that we can't have Clan Leader moderate their own threads. I will discuss the possibility of this, but there would have to be at least 3 clans that would want it for it to be worthwhile.

Wouldn't even have to be 100% focused towards Mafia. Could be Social or just Arcade, or even Matchmaking. Idc, as it would increase traffic and even if Mafia wasn't the main factor, coming to site to check their clan shit would remind people about the game lol

We'll chat

[Cryptonic]

We'll chat

Yea, I'll send you a PM if I see interest, or vice versa lol I mean, you can do what you want and everything, just lemme know what's going on XD