Cool Setups.

[Sarzael]

Hello, i made this topic so people can tell setups and speak about other people setups.
Mine for example is made of:
1 Godfather.
2 Random mafia.
1 Spy.
1 Jester.
2 Random neutral.
1 Random any.
6 Random town.

[Mysterymeat]

hmm...interesting your setup adds a lot of uncertainty to the game but I personally like a sheriff, an investigator, and 2 docs instead of 4 random towns. Don't see why you'd put a spy in there instead of sheriff. If mafia knows there is spy they just won't talk. Also I'd put an sk in instead of jester and make random any can't be mafia.

[Sarzael]

Spy is a double-edged sword, he can find out whos mafia, or mafia can give him fake information, and use him.
Example which happen to me (not exactly, but close)
Mafia 1: Lets kill Luisa Mandrake.
Mafia 2: Ehem... Ehem...
Mafia 1: Oh sorry, i mean Player 3.
If there was a spy, he could know Luisa Mandrake is a mafia, which means the most small error, (Even ortography) can give info to spy.
But other thing could happen:
Mafia 1: who we kill luisa?
Mafia 2: Player 3.
If there was a spy, he could think Luisa Mandrake is a Mafia, while Luisa Mandrake is innocent.

[Nick]

That is why "Can see Mafia's target" should always be checked. Can rule out who is mafia if murder failed. Put it as default perhaps?

Currently, Random Town seems more likely to give us Sheriff and Investigators. Might end up with 4 (2 from random town). Hope this will change after the number of Town roles is expanded.

[Goonswarm]

I don't like any random roles, :/

Honesty is the best policy, even though this is Mafia. Honesty is OP in Mafia, in my honest opinion.


Random roles add alot to the game. If you do not use randoms you might as well go play Guess Who (kids game).

More or less you could play without randoms if you simply lack the intelligence to win at a higher level of skill.

Spy also needs to be randomed to be effective.

My setup I host with:
Sheriff - Detects Arson, SK, Mafia
Investigator - Does not detect exact role
Doctor -
Doctor -
Bus Driver -
Random Town - Excludes Citizens, Can be killing roles.
Random Town - Excludes Citizens, Can be killing roles.
Godfather - Not Immune at night (after hosting many games I have found this to be the best), Immune to Roleblock (to compensate for lacking night immunity), Immune to detection.
Random Mafia - Can be killing roles
Random Mafia - Can be killing roles (Depending on the amount of pubbies I will make this a mafioso).
Arsonist - Attacks ignore immunity
Random Neutral - Can be killing roles.
Random Neutral - Can be killing roles.
Neutral - 4 vest survivor (can be chat channel choice of neutral).

Random Mafia Details:
Consig: Works same as investigator, Replaces Godfather.
Consort: Becomes Mafioso when Alone.
Janitor: Becomes Mafioso when Alone. 2 Sanitizations
Framer: Becomes Mafioso when Alone.
Mafioso:

Random Neutral Details:
Arson: Attacks ignore immunity.
Witch: Can target self, Target knows manipulated.
Jester: Random guilty voter dies.
Survivor: 4 vests, best vests.
Serial Killer: No specials beyond basic abilities.

Edit: General settings:
Day length 1.1
Night length .7
Trial length .8
Trial pauses day: Off
Choose names: On
Death Descriptions
Majority + Trial
Discussion time .5
Trial Defence: On
PM Allowed: Off
Start game at: Night
Last will allowed: On
Discussion: On

Cheers - Goons out :P

[Membrax]

My setup I host with:
Sheriff - Detects Arson, SK, Mafia
Investigator - Does not detect exact role
Doctor -
Doctor -
Bus Driver -
Random Town - Excludes Citizens, Can be killing roles.
Random Town - Excludes Citizens, Can be killing roles.
Godfather - Not Immune at night (after hosting many games I have found this to be the best), Immune to Roleblock (to compensate for lacking night immunity), Immune to detection.
Random Mafia - Can be killing roles
Random Mafia - Can be killing roles (Depending on the amount of pubbies I will make this a mafioso).
Arsonist - Attacks ignore immunity
Random Neutral - Can be killing roles.
Random Neutral - Can be killing roles.
Neutral - Chat channels choice. This I save and ask the lobby if they would like a specific neutral (SK,Witch,Jester,) and add it to please the pubbie horde.


This looks good, but I've 2 suggestions:
- a "Super-Sheriff" (detects Arson, SK, Mafia) makes it almost impossible for an Arsonist or SK to win. Seriously, even without detection it's pretty hard with investigator plus mafia.
- 2 Random Neutrals which can be killing roles is way too much with an Arso, and possibly and SK in last slot.
Generally, 3 mafias + 1-2 killers + several neutrals makes it very hard for town to win in a public game.

[Goonswarm]

This looks good, but I've 2 suggestions:
- a "Super-Sheriff" (detects Arson, SK, Mafia) makes it almost impossible for an Arsonist or SK to win. Seriously, even without detection it's pretty hard with investigator plus mafia.
- 2 Random Neutrals which can be killing roles is way too much with an Arso, and possibly and SK in last slot.
Generally, 3 mafias + 1-2 killers + several neutrals makes it very hard for town to win in a public game.


The issue that I have is that sheriff is by design supposed to be the pinnacle of town strength. You will rarely have more than 1 sheriff in game. With there being many roles able to kill the goal of the town is to have a figure to rally behind and for the towns enemies to eliminate that figure. There are so many ways to shut down a sheriff, I feel that if he can use logic to determine the right person to investigate and somehow the mafia/neutrals do not thwart him in any way, he deserves to be rewarded.

I refuse to play with citizens enabled ever. I know how it feels to random a civ and pretty much alt tab the entire game out of boredom. I know some people like citizens and I do not feel that they are without a role in Mafia. I do however feel that every player that is in a lobby I host should be able to have an impact beyond using logic (citizens role with voting). I no longer use random any for the fact that you can random a citizen.

In every game you see town dominate, the town rallies behind a sheriff or investigator that has proven themselves loyal to the town. So make sure that in my lobbies you target that sheriff first if you are neutral/mafia, because they will find you, and they will know.

[Supersun]

In every game you see town dominate, the town rallies behind a sheriff or investigator that has proven themselves loyal to the town. So make sure that in my lobbies you target that sheriff first if you are neutral/mafia, because they will find you, and they will know.


That's not mafia though. That's basically a glorified game of guess who. That's the primary reason I don't run with 2 docs and I venture that's why the original game doesn't either. Because the mafia quickly gets curbed when it takes them at least 3 nights minimum to get luck and kill the 2 doctors and then the sheriff. Imagine the classic game with 1 sheriff and 2 doctors instead of 2 sheriffs and 1 doctor. As soon as that sheriff claims and proves himself it would be very hard for the town to lose.

In addition multiple doctors allow multiple checkers to call out targets. With one Doctor you have to be careful since the doctor can only protect one power role and the other ones should be more subtle about how to lynch their targets or get ready to sacrifice themselves to call out a few roles.

I mean the role of a sheriff is important since there needs to be some catalyst to get the game moving since otherwise it would be all random voting, but in 2 doc games unless the doctors happen to get killed early the winning strategy for the town more or less is just wait for the sheriff and just follow his vote. There's not as much strategy and deception in that.

[wightsnow]

In every game you see town dominate, the town rallies behind a sheriff or investigator that has proven themselves loyal to the town. So make sure that in my lobbies you target that sheriff first if you are neutral/mafia, because they will find you, and they will know.


I've dominated and had town rally behind me as citi after using my bulletproof vest to prove identity (was shot by both mafia and vigil; GF was not immune at night). Since I was clearly clean, a couple other people had played in ways to make them clearly clean if I was. The mafia didn't want to waste another night on me, b/c I wasn't a power role.

[Goonswarm]

The above two posts are also right, my broad generalization of the rallying behind a sheriff is not always true. I do however feel that with the buffs to the arsonist, the sheriff can distinguish SK/Doctor normally, now that arsonist has BD to fall back on sheriff should be able to detect him as well.

[Zippy]

This is my setup for pubby games:
Godfather
Consigliere
Random Mafia
Sheriff
Investigator
2 Doctors
4 random town
Arsonist
2 random neutral

If we lose slots, I remove a random neutral followed by random towns.

There are many roles that really need to be randomed to make a game real interesting.

This setup works real well in pubby games, leading to a general 50/50 split between town and mafia wins (with the occasional arsonist or sk win as well) that almost always go down to the wire. Unfortunately, the new bus driver role has really stuck it to the townies. The town has the advantage of numbers, but the disadvantage of information, and pubby bus drivers typically just drive people randomly, which is almost worse than a vig that shoots randomly, because it often leads to the town wasting their lynches on people who are innocent because they switched with a bad guy. With a bus driver in the game, the town can't gather any information they have any confidence in.

[Goonswarm]

I don't like any random roles, :/

Honesty is the best policy, even though this is Mafia. Honesty is OP in Mafia, in my honest opinion.


Random roles add alot to the game. If you do not use randoms you might as well go play Guess Who (kids game).

More or less you could play without randoms if you simply lack the intelligence to win at a higher level of skill.

Spy also needs to be randomed to be effective.

My setup I host with:
Sheriff - Detects Arson, SK, Mafia
Investigator - Does not detect exact role
Doctor -
Doctor -
Bus Driver -
Random Town - Excludes Citizens, Can be killing roles.
Random Town - Excludes Citizens, Can be killing roles.
Godfather - Not Immune at night (after hosting many games I have found this to be the best), Immune to Roleblock (to compensate for lacking night immunity), Immune to detection.
Random Mafia - Can be killing roles
Random Mafia - Can be killing roles (Depending on the amount of pubbies I will make this a mafioso).
Arsonist - Attacks ignore immunity
Random Neutral - Can be killing roles.
Random Neutral - Can be killing roles.
Neutral - This is now survivor as survivor with 4 vests rocks.


Random Mafia Details:
Consig: Works same as investigator, Replaces Godfather.
Consort: Becomes Mafioso when Alone.
Janitor: Becomes Mafioso when Alone. 2 Sanitizations
Framer: Becomes Mafioso when Alone.
Mafioso:

Random Neutral Details:
Arson: Attacks ignore immunity.
Witch: Can target self, Target knows manipulated.
Jester: Random guilty voter dies.
Survivor: 4 vests, best vests.
Serial Killer: No specials beyond basic abilities.


I have found that adding survivor to the game with 4 vests is an amazing thing. The dynamics it adds to the game are very cool been hosting all day with 1 set survivor with great results.

[Sarzael]

Worsest Setup EVER:
(Made by some noob host)
3 Witch.
4 Vigilante. (Whit 4 Bullets)
3 Mafioso.
All the others was SK.

What do you think? I leaved the game, like everyone else did.

[Goonswarm]

Worsest Setup EVER:
(Made by some noob host)
3 Witch.
4 Vigilante. (Whit 4 Bullets)
3 Mafioso.
All the others was SK.

What do you think? I leaved the game, like everyone else did.


If you are going to make a troll setup I personally enjoy the 10 bus driver 4 sk setup we goofed around with.

[Fulla]

For public games I think this is probably the best setup. I'll explain why after.

Godfather (Only with Immune to Detection / Can kill solo)
Random Mafia (All set to switch over roles if solo)
Random Mafia
Sheriff (Can Only Detect Mafia / SK)
Doctor
Random Town (Exclude Citizen AND Killing roles)
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Arsonist (Can kill invul)
Serial Killer (Kills blockers)
Random Neutral (Disable killers)
Random Neutral

- No vigilantes as they honestly just ruin public games, with random shooting always.
- Godfather not invulnerable so he's not too strong.
- Sheriff's can't detect Arsonists, so that atleast gives them a chance.
- Plenty of randoms, so people can lie about their roles.
- It's pretty balanced, I've seen all sides win with a good ratio.
- All players and all roles are important, challenging and nobody feels of less value.

Very open to comments.

[vileguy]

Random roles add alot to the game. If you do not use randoms you might as well go play Guess Who (kids game).

More or less you could play without randoms if you simply lack the intelligence to win at a higher level of skill.
I find randoms to be bad practice and in general I don't think they add to the game quality. There are enough random elements in the game already that make many games lopsided victories, even some with good players, such as killing roles getting lucky with random targetting.


Spy also needs to be randomed to be effective.
This is true but I generally don't play with spies.

The biggest problems I have with the game are GF being unkillable in many positions and sheriffs being imbalanced. If a sheriff detects a mafia, you lynch them next turn, 1 mafia down, a good day for the town. In this situation do people lie? Very little. People don't too often claim to be sheriff or investigator right off the bat, and provide definitive proof, if they are not actually a sheriff or investigator. Additionally, people will tend to believe the day 1/2 accuser, often saying "if he's lying, we lynch him next," though it is hardly ever the case that a Mafia is telling you to lynch someone because "they are Mafia," and usually a Jester if anyone is lying at all.

This means that sheriff is generally overpowered. Being able to say "he's a serial killer/mafia/arsonist" alters the game too quickly and takes away from the lying and social aspect. In another situation, if the remaining people are witch or GF and town, the sheriff is useless. I greatly prefer investigators for this reason and will run 2-3 in most games.

Back to random:

If you get jester or witch by random, that's a lot better than getting it without random, especially witch; however, these roles can do fine without random.

Getting most town roles via random doesn't make the game any better. Spy of course as well as doctor and vigilante possibly, if randomed, can change the game, but for most town roles being randomed doesn't matter. A sheriff or investigator's only advantage from random is avoiding targetting if they're the last one alive, which is only possible if they haven't said anything yet. This doesn't happen often and isn't game changing.

If you let neutrals random SK, your game won't be balanced. Having no SK makes it too easy for town, and 2 SK is awful for town.

(Assuming 3 mafia out of 15? players) Mafia being random can be powerful, but it can also be crippling. If you random 2 non-killing roles, mafia basically loses when the 1 killer dies. Getting other combinations isn't likely to be overpowered, but 2+ GF is stupid and janitor's are really powerful. A framer is much stronger if randomed, but that's pretty rare.

Overall I don't like random. I try to come up with a balanced setup and stick to that so that the average game is close and exciting. Enough games are ruined by leavers, trolls, griefers, noobs, random lynching and random vigi shooting that I don't need games to also be ruined by having 2 SK, 4 Mafia, or 3 sheriffs in a game.

The most balanced setup I've concluded is filled with doubles when considering investigator detection.
3 mafia
~7 town
~3 neutral
1.5-2 mafia killing roles
2-3 investigators
2 doctors
other towns
1 SK
1 witch
other neutrals

A specific example I play with is:
Mafioso
Framer
Consigliere
Invest x3
Doc x2
Vigi x2 (1 bullet)
SK
Witch
Jester x2

This setup has 3 investigators, which is a lot, but their information is limited by doubles. In a worst-case scenario, randomly killed targets in the first 2 nights include both docs or vigilantes, in which case the SK or mafioso can be detected by a hint + deductive reasoning. This isn't a problem because the town is already hurting a lot, so for them to get a lynch to catch up is fine. If the mafioso dies early and the framer can't kill, it really sucks, but that's one of the problems with this setup (it would be nice if Framer would become a killer when mafia has none instead of when he's alone). The framer can be instantly detected, but this is fair because he is incredibly powerful and if he survives he can get people lynched. The witch can also be instantly detected, but because you know there's a witch, you should consider the possibility that the investigator was controlled (I always set witch's target to be oblivious). IMO redirected an investigator to yourself is incredibly powerful and I rarely see people do it.

Consigliere checks same as invest and can claim to be an invest. He won't be called out as an invest with any certainty until all 3 invests are dead, because his information is only hints. He can also lie of course, but the point is he has options and is protected. Mafioso is protected by the 2 vigi (I sometimes exchange these for 1 GF + 2 Civ, survivor optional). Lastly, Jesters do not really affect team balance, but they can significantly increase the "Lie factor" of the game. Having 2 is fine.

[Styx]

I'd like to try that setup vileguy but I'm curious, do you find having 3 doctors stagnates the game or slows it down significantly?

Also, to everyone else as well, I've added a Setup menu on the mafia wiki (you can access it from the main page). If you have some good ideas for setups please post them there!

[Fulla]

You really need some randoms thou so people can lie. Also as you already said alot of roles are weaker when everyone knows about them.

If people can make up fake roles, it's more interesting, without random this becomes incredibly hard. Someone can easily just call you out.

[Goonswarm]

You really need some randoms thou so people can lie. Also as you already said alot of roles are weaker when everyone knows about them.

If people can make up fake roles, it's more interesting, without random this becomes incredibly hard. Someone can easily just call you out.


I was going to quote the giant post replying to mine and say this but it is much easier to simply quote what I agree with . There is a reason DR's choice is near all randoms. The flavor it adds to the game and the dynamics are simply too great to be passed on.

[Goonswarm]

Testing due to forum changes.

[Sarzael]

Worsest Setup EVER:
(Made by some noob host)
3 Witch.
4 Vigilante. (Whit 4 Bullets)
3 Mafioso.
All the others was SK.

What do you think? I leaved the game, like everyone else did.


If you are going to make a troll setup I personally enjoy the 10 bus driver 4 sk setup we goofed around with.


I didnt make this setup, other did. Also i would like to try a 1 time setup:
11 SK, a Bus Driver and a Godfather whit killing at night and invulnerable on.

[Goonswarm]

Worsest Setup EVER:
(Made by some noob host)
3 Witch.
4 Vigilante. (Whit 4 Bullets)
3 Mafioso.
All the others was SK.

What do you think? I leaved the game, like everyone else did.


If you are going to make a troll setup I personally enjoy the 10 bus driver 4 sk setup we goofed around with.


I didnt make this setup, other did. Also i would like to try a 1 time setup:
11 SK, a Bus Driver and a Godfather whit killing at night and invulnerable on.


I have done two 10 BD 4 SK lobbies and it is very fun :)

[vileguy]

I'd like to try that setup vileguy but I'm curious, do you find having 3 doctors stagnates the game or slows it down significantly?

Also, to everyone else as well, I've added a Setup menu on the mafia wiki (you can access it from the main page). If you have some good ideas for setups please post them there!

That was a typo, I use 2 docs not 3.


You really need some randoms thou so people can lie. Also as you already said alot of roles are weaker when everyone knows about them.

If people can make up fake roles, it's more interesting, without random this becomes incredibly hard. Someone can easily just call you out.

This just isn't true. There's virtually no difference between having randoms and no randoms. Let's say you have 1 sheriff, 1 invest, 1 doc, 1 escort, and 3 random towns. If a sheriff is dead, people will be suspicious of anyone claiming sheriff. If there are 2 dead, even more so. If a spy and a sheriff are dead, just as much so. People being dead means you can narrow down the possible remaining people, that's a simple fact of the game. Unless you play with 7 random towns, this is generally how it's going to work, and 7 random towns would be awful because good luck town without invest/sheriff.

Compare that to my setup of 3 invests, 1 consig, 2 vigilante, 1 mafioso, 2 doctor, 1 sk, framer, witch, and 2 jester: Up to 4 people can claim investigator with actual info, and unless all 3 invest are dead, you can't call out the consigliere, you can only guess 50/50, 33/66, or 25/75 + possible hints. If the town is down all 3 invests, having a free lynch on the consig will only help even things out a bit. Then you have the mafioso, invests won't know who he is unless both vigi are dead and they check him. Also since there's a framer and a witch, there's a chance the person they're inspecting isn't a gunner at all. SK has slightly less protection as framer can't help him, only witch can. Lastly, the jesters throw lies into the mix to make things interesting without changing the balance of 7 town, 3 mafia, and a SK.

I think this is a great setup and lots of fun. How can you say that people can only lie with randoms? The truth is, randoms aren't what make for good games, it's the lack of a sheriff. Sheriffs are like SKs, all they do is user their power and say "lynch him." That goes completely against the idea of this being a game about lying. Investigators are vastly superior, not in strength, but in improving average game quality. The only time town has an easy time lynching is when they're almost dead, so then they might not even be able to muster the votes. People still have knee-jerk reactions to seeing 3 invests, 0 randoms, 2 jesters, or all of the above. It may not be the ideal setup, but it works and I think it's balanced, and best of all there's nothing random about it, so if it is a little imbalanced for 1 team, it's always a little imbalanced and never greatly imbalanced.

In my setup, mafioso can claim vigi or being framed or invest redirected by a witch, consigliere can claim invest, witch can claim invest redirected by a witch, sk can claim doc or invest redirected by witch, jester can lie in any number of ways, claiming invest probably the most common, and lastly EVERYONE CAN LIE ABOUT ANYTHING; that's a lot of lying. You don't have to be a random to lie. People think the game is simpler than it really is. In Mafia, unless you're in the mafia team or a mason, you're truly alone. People like to give their info on day 1 and say "doc heal me," but everyone who believes that person is an invest/sheriff is truly acting on blind faith. Any of the people in the game could be claiming invest, and half the game is non-town. If you have a sheriff, lying is more risky: a sheriff can say "he is a mafia" and people will say "if he's lying, we lynch him tomorrow" very often. This works because sheriffs get too much information, so only witch and framer can disrupt them. If you have 3 invests, it's not so easy. They could say "he's a framer/witch" and lynch him, but for anyone else lying will control the game. In the game with the sheriff, people will be hesitant to claim sheriff because they are expected to be correct about someone being mafia, and if there's a real sheriff and he checks you, he'll find you're mafia or SK if you are. Conversely, with a bunch of invests and no randoms, lying is great. Randoms make lying possible, but it's not the only way.