S-FM Overturn to Riddler

[Poriomania]

Overturn to Riddler (OTR) (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Overturn_to_Riddler) - A game for 7 players.

Role List
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
One-Shot Governor
Sheriff
Mafioso
Godfather

Win Conditions
Town: Eliminate the scum.
Mafia: Outnumber or equal the town.

Description
This is a skill-intensive open setup that offers mafia and town a number of outs. Prepare to bring along your best game.

Citizen
You have no power except your vote.

Sheriff
You can check a person's alignment each Night.

One-Shot Governor
After the lynch and before the role flip, you can either stop the lynch or overturn it to someone else. This is one shot.

Mafioso
You can perform the Nightkill.

Godfather
You investigate at "innocent" to all sheriffs.

1. 48 hour Days, 24 hour Nights. The game will start at Day 1. Be prepared to talk.

2. No editing posts, PM quoting, PMing, all that jazz. I don't want to modkill players.

3. There are no jesters, cults, or anything that disrupts the core spirit of the game. Behavioral Analysis is Behavioral Analysis, and you'll have to hone your skills to succeed in this game.

4. Rolecalling early will not break the game. The setup will punish you if you try to mod or flavorgame it. I don't recommend it!

5. The only game discussion should take place in the observer chat, in the thread.

6. Respect your fellow players, and have fun. If you don't have fun, I will modkill you or replace you, and that would be bad, wouldn't it?

[Orpz]

I don't understand the connection between the name and the setup :p

[Poriomania]

I wish there was a legit connection as well. :(

Let's just pretend that in spring 2004, it's Day 2 of this setup. A townie was lynched and the Sheriff was nightkilled. They get another mislynch off, then the godfather (named Riddler) starts gloating and his scumbuddy starts gloating in-thread too.

Governor overturns the lynch from the townie to Riddler in twilight.

Next day town lynches his buddy.

This is all completely made up, but that's what I would wish for.

[Orpz]

If the Governor gets lynched, can he overturn it?

[Mateo]

If the Governor gets lynched, can he overturn it?

o.O

clever girl...

[Poriomania]

No, he cannot.

[Poriomania]

This thread is now open.

I never intended to close it.

[ika]

in b4 mass role call...

you know this game can easily be broken by roles calls when theres set roles

[TheDarkestLight]

http://www.epicmafia.com/setup/428263

You are very creative sir...

One cit difference but does it matter?

[Slaol]

in b4 mass role call...

you know this game can easily be broken by roles calls when theres set roles

Mass Role Call
5 Citizens
1 Governer
1 Sheriff

n1- sheriff is killed
d1- governer is proven and tries
n2- governer dies

[Titus]

If the group chooses to lynch Poriomania, can the governor overturn it to where Titus is lynched without further imput?

Does the governor have to out to use this ability?

[Poriomania]

@TDL: The link is broken, but yes, this is a widely-accepted open setup.

@ika: No, doesn't work that way.

@Titus: Nope.

[ika]

@TDL: The link is broken, but yes, this is a widely-accepted open setup.

@ika: No, doesn't work that way.

@Titus: Nope.

it can, riff claims cit, cit claims riff, cit dies real riff exposed lynch maifa, riff dies then becomes battle of meta.

most of these games these days are just meta-based and not analyzed based, really the only games that dont use the meta system are annons, but even that become broken by people knowing each others coms, its been proven anything that has set roles are suspectable to a mass role call, in the end it would just be a battle of cit claimers, and trust me every time ive seen it the sums screw it up

every game is supectiable to a mass role claim, its just that cits will claim prs, prs would claim cits and then out the real mafia to it.

also scince the riff can only detect one of the mafias is kinda underpowered for it

edit: this is what ive just noticed in the past few games is that 90% of ppl just meta everyone. i just think what you are trying to achve might not work. but you never know...

[Poriomania]

Meta is never strong enough to justify a scum read.

But we will see. The setup punishes bad play from either side, so it can go either way.

[Mateo]

Meta is never strong enough to justify a scum read.

But we will see. The setup punishes bad play from either side, so it can go either way.

1) yes, meta is enough to justify scum read

2) you keep saying it punishes bad play when thats simply not the case

3) you need more roles

[Damus_Graves]

Meta has literally screwed over everyone who has tried to use it against me, save for creed but he is the only person to be able to read me near any form of accuracy. I say this because it is the most accurate form of an argument that I can present. You cannot use meta to find scum/town and will have to rely on post analysis at some point in time during your FM career. Meta is flexible and you cannot predict the actions of an actively thinking human being with any certainty.

tl;dr Meta is broken if it is the sole source of evidence.

[Poriomania]

1) yes, meta is enough to justify scum read

As a newcomer to this forum, we have different views.

We will see - ask me this question next year or something.



2) you keep saying it punishes bad play when thats simply not the case

If town does well, can flip the lynch onto bad scum play fairly easily. If town does poorly, scum pull off multiple no lynches and kill the PRs.

I've seen this setup played (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=23015) in multiple (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=23431) sites (http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=99338) and it usually boils down to that fact.



3) you need more roles

This is a accepted and balanced elegant setup. I don't know why I would want to add any more.

Also, +1 to Damus.

[Cryptonic]

This setup looks well balanced to me, and I see no flaws.

[Titus]

Does that mean it is approved?

[Cryptonic]

no

[BorkBot]

Please list the citizens on separate lines and remove the numbers for easier reading.

What text formatting should people use for lynch votes?


5. The only game discussion should take place in the observer chat, in the thread, or in a mentor chat.

I assume by "mentor chat" you mean that the "mentor" isn't actually playing the game and that he can't distribute information between players who are in the game, correct?


One-Shot Governor
After the lynch and before the role flip, you can either stop the lynch or overturn it to someone else. This is one shot.
Can you explain how exactly this role works?

Does the day not end after a lynch? When does the "role flip" happen?

By "overturn," do you mean he single-handedly picks a different target and that person gets lynched instead?

What happens if people hammer vote just before the deadline so the Governor doesn't get the chance to submit his action?

What if the governor simply can't be online around the time the day ends?

[Poriomania]

Please list the citizens on separate lines and remove the numbers for easier reading.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/thumbsup2.gif

What text formatting should people use for lynch votes?
The usual vote tags? Not exactly sure what this question is asking.


I assume by "mentor chat" you mean that the "mentor" isn't actually playing the game and that he can't distribute information between players who are in the game, correct?
Copyed and pasted the mentor chat thing from Divergence. I'll remove it.


Can you explain how exactly this role works?
PM the mod during Twilight to choose to either stop the lynch (making the game go into a no lynch) or lynch a different person entirely.

[COLOR=#00ff00]Does the day not end after a lynch? When does the "role flip" happen?
Once someone is lynched, the game goes into Twilight and the Governor has 12 hours max to send in his decision.

By "overturn," do you mean he single-handedly picks a different target and that person gets lynched instead?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/thumbsup2.gif

What happens if people hammer vote just before the deadline so the Governor doesn't get the chance to submit his action?
Answered above.

What if the governor simply can't be online around the time the day ends?
Then the lynch happens as usual.

[BorkBot]

I think the 12 hour twilight mechanic may create more significant inconvenience due to time zone differences than normal day/night scheduling already does.

Would you consider doing the following instead:
-lynching ends the day / starts the night (no twilight inbetween)
-the governor's action becomes a night action
-lynched target doesn't actually die until the start of the next day. Lynch death occurs at the start of the Order of Operations, so if someone was the victim of a lynch the day before (or the governor's lynch redirection), their night actions won't go through

This has a few implications:
-Players won't be able to use "the flip" to decide their night actions. This shouldn't be that big of a problem however, as it only affects the sheriff check and the mafia night kill.
-Hammered mafia may still partake in their night chat the night after they get lynched (though you could simply add a clause that says they will be removed from their night chat if they got hammered.
-requires LESS moderation from you because the transitions from day to twilight and twilight to night would be gone

[BorkBot]

Bump for an answer to input.

[Poriomania]

Oh, whoops, forgot to reply to this.

It seems weird but I think I can work it out. I do want "the flip" to decide night actions, however.

Why is 12 hours inconvenient? It seems like a reasonable length of time.

[BorkBot]

Let's say someone sleeps for 8 hours, does their daily routine of getting ready for work/school for an hour, works for 8 hours, then needs an hour to get back home and have dinner, which takes another hour or so.

You're looking at a window of ~18 hours there.

And there might even be more things to attend to in the evening hours, such as sports, visitors, etc.

Now if for example you live in the USA and want to end your days at midnight your time, it becomes nearly impossible for Europeans on a busy schedule to be online during those 12 hours of "twilight" after the day ends. This would make a European Governor entirely powerless.

In most cases, requirements to be online for a game should be in 24 hour periods at least to account for timezone differences. And sometimes that isn't even enough (mafia night chats with players who can't be online to talk to each other is a huge pain).

[Titus]

Poriomania, I think you should do it the way Borkbot suggests to be fair for all timezones. I know I am one of the more active posters, but rarely there are times where I MUST delve into my work for 12 straight hours. Removed the lynched from the night chat and let the governor then flip. If he flips it to someone in night chat, then the target got a bonus of one extra night chat and action. It sorta balances the governor.

[Poriomania]

One question: Can I make the governor period 24 hours?

If not, then I'll begrudgingly go with your suggestion. :P

[BorkBot]

Making it 24 hours would work. It would mean the "night" would be twice as long as the day chat, however. Which is slightly strange but not impossible.

[Poriomania]

Hm, the players would wait a while but sure.

Game should wrap up in around a week to one-and-a-half weeks, I suppose.

One thing - can I wrap up twilight period if the governor chooses early? That would require everyone playing the game to be on invisible mode for a week or so, right?

From a player perspective I understand the agony of long twilights.

[BorkBot]

Would recommend not cutting the twilight period short based on early submissions by the governor. Players will be able to use meta knowledge of other players' timezones to narrow down who the governor is.

[Poriomania]

Yeah, sure.

[BorkBot]

Approved

[Poriomania]

Can I post signups for this? I don't see it in the Setup Review & Approval thread, so I'm assuming that's off and ready to run.

[ika]

Can I post signups for this? I don't see it in the Setup Review & Approval thread, so I'm assuming that's off and ready to run.

you have to make the signup youself

[Poriomania]

*nods*

Great.