S-FM Basic Crisis

[louiswill]

Basic version of belly crisis
(basically done)

Role List:
1 Monopoly
1 investor
1 Mayor
4 Peons
2 Hobo
1 Union Leader

Faction:

just a roughly decription:
Mafia
Town Restoration
Town Revolutionary
Town Upraising


Role card:


--------------------
Monopoly:

Goal:
Convert/kill all peons
Survive

1. 3 vests
2. convert 1-4 peon into hobo

Special info: know peon's name lists at beginning of the game

Investor:

Goal:
Convert/kill all peons
Survive

1. detect (communist, mob only)
2. (if Monopoly died)Convert a peon into hobo





Mayor:

Goal:
Kill all Mobs
Kill all anachylists
Survive

1. Supply & Visit (keep a hobo a hobo, gain immunity if visited peons, hobo & communists)
2. Appoint suspect (if it passed majority innocent vote)

Peon:
Goal:
Kill all Mobs
Survive

1. Power of citizen

Hobo:

Goal:
Kill all Mobs
Kill all anachylists
Survive

1. Become a Mob
2. Become an Anachylist
3. Depress (If you are not visited by mayor & choose to become nothing then you will be mod killed)




Peon Leader

Goal:
kill monopoly
Survive

1. Immunity to kill/converting
2. Witchdoctor Healing (Convert target into communists if target was targeted by monopoly)

Communist :

Goal:
kill monopoly
Kill Anachylists

1. Convert: convert an Anachylist if target is not hired, will be killed if you visit monopoly.



Anachylist:

Goal:
kill Mayor & Communist

1. Support: (Reveal yourself as anachylist to target)

Mob:
Goal:
Kill Mayor, union leader, peon and communists

1. Kill
2. Immunity to kill





Mechanic:

2) Ending:
Everyone alive must satisfy their win condition.
or
Everyone alive is unable to modify current tie.


3) Lynch by mayor

Mayor pm me at night to lynch a person, then I will announce the target.
Next day, a majority innocent vote is required to Excuse the person from being lynched.
The person will be lynch at the end of day if not enough sympathy .


Order of operation:

Mayor visit
Hobo choice
Union leader converting
Monopoly converting
Investor converting
Mod Killing
Mob assault
Anarchylist visiting
Communist converting

[BorkBot]

Still way too full of strange roles, mechanics, events and winning conditions. Please make it a basic game.

No jobs, no employment, no firing, no:

Warning: Treasury empty (see Mayor's wining condition)

Warning: Company collapse (see Monopoly's winning condition)

Society in Danger (see Prime winning condition)

Winning conditions should show EXACTLY what each faction should do to win.

This:

2) Ending:
Everyone alive must satisfy their win condition.
Everyone lose if prime condition doesn't match.
Is bad, because it makes winning conditions variable and nobody will know what they have to do in order to win.

The new mayor ability (appoint suspect at night) is OK, but remove all the other double/triple abilities and stick to basic mafia night actions (kills, conversions, protection, detection, blocks, redirection, deception) as much as possible.

[BorkBot]

If you want to host something completely different from a regular mafia game, the MFM boards aren't the place to do it.

You could try here though:
http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/77-Puzzles-and-Forum-Games

[louiswill]

Thanks for your suggestion, but I am interested in to hold a sfm first.

Though the concept was kept vague and the winning condition was unclear ---- which I intended because the game was about
"a choice of a society in a hard time''

However, I have reshaped it again closer to a normal mafia.

I already rewrote the wining conditions. Those are now quite clean who need to die.

I made it like this:

2 witch factions with converting
1 neutral faction with killing power
1 mayor faction with power of lynch

Most roles have only 1 night actions and 1 passive ability.

I hope it is now good to go.

[Cryptonic]

Hobo:

Goal:
Town Civilian > 50% population
Kill all Mobs
Kill all anachylists
Survive
1. Become a Mob
2. Become an Anachylist


Isn't the gamethrowing for the Hobo's to accept a role? It's actively playing against their current win condition.

[Damus_Graves]

Simple-Forum Mafia

[louiswill]

Hobo:
Goal:
Kill all Mobs

1. Become a Mob


Isn't the gamethrowing for the Hobo's to accept a role? It's actively playing against their current win condition.

Hobo would die if mayor doesn't come to him, so to win as a hobo you have to constantly request help from mayor.

However, mayor can only aid ONE hobo, and hobo's survive chance is low.

To meet the conditions of win as hobo, hobo has to talk his way out to mayor.

Hobo doesn't choose Thug life, thug life choose hobo.

It is similar to a situation if a town is surrounded by cultists, the town would want to be converted to win.
The difference in this setup was, this is a set-in challenge for hobo player.
In previous setup, I let mnopoly save hobos as well, but the mechanic was too complicated to be a sfm,
I was forced to change it. :(

Therefore, it would not consider as gamethrow since the challenge was set-in by host.

After a hobo become mob/anachylist, the winning condition will change as mob/anachylist's. --- A hobo turns his back on government and society because he had almost no choice.

The question put in front of hobo really is, if mayor will come to your aid when you need him the most?


Simple-Forum Mafia

You can consider it is 4 witchdoctor faction against each other, really nothing more.

I think this setup is simple enough

1)no one have many night actions
2)order of operation is manageable.

it is probably easier than the colonists one in which the power roles were stacking up on the formal basic roles, such as an indian-gunsmith etc.

The really unique of this setup of the game is not simply about find a scum and kill,

but rather a poll - choice based social coalition forming.

I allowed PM and secret allies, but things still require a talking to make your political enemy float on the surface.

However,

the core of mafia never changes :

everyone holds their own version of world/scumlist/scenario, and they compete against each other --- no matter same faction or not.

People may not agree with each other, but the earth still spinning and a right agreement -- not choice only -- is the main struggle for each faction.

[ika]

colonist was accualy more simple. its was like gerick s-fm democracy. all it is that its talk and vote. it was 2 factions.

here you got 4 factions each with diffrent use/mechanics. the mechanic are so new and never been implimented as well. i think if you were to use simple roles along with maybe one mechanic it could get on by

[louiswill]

colonist was accualy more simple. its was like gerick s-fm democracy. all it is that its talk and vote. it was 2 factions.

here you got 4 factions each with diffrent use/mechanics. the mechanic are so new and never been implimented as well. i think if you were to use simple roles along with maybe one mechanic it could get on by

Killing, lynch, Converting, and vests.

what's new?

[ika]

Town Civilian > 50% population
Convert/kill all peons in 5 days

Town Civilian > 50% population
Kill all Mobs in 8 days
Kill all anachylists in 8 days

Special information: Underground movement : a member list if membership < Anachylist -1

things like that is whats complicating it

[louiswill]

Town Civilian > 50% population
Convert/kill all peons in 5 days

Town Civilian > 50% population
Kill all Mobs in 8 days
Kill all anachylists in 8 days

Special information: Underground movement : a member list if membership < Anachylist -1

things like that is whats complicating it

1)
goal is converting, killing everyone will make most roles useless, therefore it is a general condition.

2)
time limit, anyway almost no game last longer than 8 days.
10 ppl with killing and lynch, 5-8 days is almost unreachable.
almost no effects on the game, I put it in there just in case.

3)
the information is what I will give them a note, they do not have to do anything.


------------

none of above will cause serious differences in the game.

I can delete all that, if it can make the game pass the approval.

[louiswill]

okay, all removed. any other thoughts?

[ika]

1)
goal is converting, killing everyone will make most roles useless, therefore it is a general condition.

2)
time limit, anyway almost no game last longer than 8 days.
10 ppl with killing and lynch, 5-8 days is almost unreachable.
almost no effects on the game, I put it in there just in case.

3)
the information is what I will give them a note, they do not have to do anything.


------------

none of above will cause serious differences in the game.

I can delete all that, if it can make the game pass the approval.

i would message bork and see what he thinks is what is making it complicated. he is in charge of it. maybe he can find a way to use the same setup or similar without completely detroying it

[ika]

for me i see it clearer and it seems to make some more sense but again its bork that does the process. your best chance is to pm him and have him give what he thinks needs to be done to fix it to make it possible.

its diffrent and unique for sure

[louiswill]

for me i see it clearer and it seems to make some more sense but again its bork that does the process. your best chance is to pm him and have him give what he thinks needs to be done to fix it to make it possible.

its diffrent and unique for sure

I put a lot addtion on that to ensure the mechanic is unbreakable, but if it makes the thing harder to read then I can just remove it.

[BorkBot]

Still too many special rules/roles.

The hobo mechanic (choose to change faction) is bad.

The Monopoly being able to convert multiple town at once is way overpowered. As is the fact that the Monopoly knows who all the peons are. Mafia is about figuring things out, not knowing everything from the start.

The Communist vs Anarchist mechanic is incredibly weird too.

If you want this to be a FM, I'd throw everything overboard and start from scratch (like I recommended on the previous thread). To give you an idea about the direction I'm searching for, here is an idea to get you started:

roles:
Corporate Bastards: Eliminate all other factions or get a voting majority. Have night chat.
Monopoly (can convert a Peon to become a Thug)
Investor (can investigate a player to see if they are a Peon, replaces Monopoly if Monopoly dies)
Thug (can be sent for the Corporate Bastards night kill if they have 2 or less members)

Civilians Powers: Eliminate all other factions except Peons
Mayor (can anonymously appoint a target at night to be placed on trial the following day. If more than 50% vote innocent, day proceeds with normal lynching rules. If less than 50% vote innocent the target is lynched)
Soldier (can kill a target at night. 2 shots)
Doctor (can save someone from a night kill or conversion)
Detective (can see who target targeted)
Escort (can block)
Bus Driver (can swap)

Workslaves: Win with Civilians or Communists
Peon (workslave. Can only vote)

Anarchist: Eliminate all other factions
Serial Killer (kill a player. night immune)
Arsonist (douse a player/ignite. ignore immunity. night immune)

Communists: Eliminate all other factions except peons. Have night chat.
Communist Leader (1 auto vest, can convert a Doctor, Detective, Escort or Bus Driver to join the Communists)

Role list:
Monopoly
Investor
Mayor
Soldier
Civilian PR
Civilian PR
Peon
Peon
Anarchist
Communist Leader

[louiswill]

@ Borkbot I guess you suspect the game balance is bad and will end without having actual posts.

It won't happen. I will answer as below.



The hobo mechanic (choose to change faction) is bad.

Since this is a game about converting, I just allow them to betray anytime.
Mayor is able to block them from being bad.
Thus, even hobo can choose to betray, a hobo must be careful of their choice.
They also have a limit to choose not like amnesiac you can choose side whenever you feel one sides is going to win.
The hobo mechanic is very balanced, even in most extreme case:
For example,
all hobos choose to become anachylists.
-- It means they turned against mayor but they hold no killing power, mayor holds killing power. All choose anachylists = a dead ends.
At least one known mob alive is necessary for anarchylists to win, because mayor needs to die.


The Monopoly being able to convert multiple town at once is way overpowered.


Union leader is there to stop monopoly.
Failed converting will cause the raise of communists, which is a stronger enemy faction than peons.
---peons is regular citizens, but communists can do much more.
If monopoly wants to safely fire peons, then he has to get rid of union leader.
Union leader is immune to kill at night.
The only way to kill union leader is go through mayor.
Even if mayor wants to hang union leader.
A majority innocents votes from peon faction will prevent it from happening.
Then again, multiple converting may causing multiple backfire.
A monopoly wants to fire safely since there is a union leader in the game.
As if in normal game, cultists need to be careful of failed converting revealing themselves.


As is the fact that the Monopoly knows who all the peons are. Mafia is about figuring things out, not knowing everything from the start.


In any normal game,
Mafia factions knows who are not mafias and will be intentionally against them in game.
In this particular game,
MAfia factions knows part of their target which are peons.
However, mafia faction holds No Killing power.
IF mafia monopoly wants to win by kill then they have to ask Mobs (Neutral killers) to do it for them.
The risk is that they may get stabbed instead.
IF mafia monopoly wants to win by lynch then they have to go through mayor.
But the MAYOR, who can lynch, sides with Peons.
Therefore, even though monopoly knows who are peons since start, it hardly will end game early.
Monopoly will have a hard time to get rid of peons and win.


The Communist vs Anarchist mechanic is incredibly weird too.

Communists go against monopoly,
Anachylists go against mayor,
The problem here is actually the mobs.
The mob definitely wants to kill communists.
Then anarchylists faction holds killing power.
That is why communists holds the converting power against anarchylists.
In any scenario, the game will not end easily if it comes to an local riot between communists and anarchylists.

It is going to be a unique player for everyone.





As I explained above:

All factions are balanced.

Please give it a chance.

The only possible fast ending is:

Monopoly and mayor hanged union leader and fire every peons.

No one turns into mobs and everyone become communists.

Then monopoly got hanged by mayor the game end in two days of a communists/mayor win.

However, the chance that happens really depends on monopoly and mayor's game player.

Notice there is no investigative role except investor, how will anyone hang a union leader out of that many people so easily?

Even if that happens, would everyone turned into communists?

Mob is an attractive roles because no one can kill except mayor and mobs.

There are no night chats too.

-----------

Your version of setup is definitely doable.

However, without the 4 factions system, it missing the essential parts of the original idea.

[BorkBot]

It's not forum mafia, much less simple forum mafia. It's a forum game that vaguely resembles FM because it has some mechanics in common. That's why I'm not giving it a chance in its current state, not just because of balance.