s-fm BUS DRIVERS

[ika]

bus driver
bus driver
bus driver
bus driver
Lookout
detective

Arson
Arson

DDing Jester



busdriver: pick two ppl and swap them
can swap with self

Lookout: pick someone and see all that visit them

detective: follow someone and see who they vist
if follows a bus driver they will see the first person they pick to bus

arson: douse someone each night, or take no action and undouse self
dousing is known
arson dont know each other
when igniting arsons only light targets they doused
if one arsonist dies before ignite other arson may ignite all doused targets
targets are not informed of undoused

DDing Jester: get lynched to win
may give false feedback of bussing or dousing
the drug dealing ignores all redirections and bussing
if lynched a guilty voter will die


LW only if lynched. Being burned by arson "burns" your lw
no editing, skype, the generic type of stuff
24hr day/night
lynch auto at 51%
arsons may leave a dn to the doused target



OoO
jester drugs
jester gerif (if lynched)
Bus
Douse/undouse/burn
Lookout/detective feedback

*How i am gonna deal with the bussing: the bus driving will be predeterimined to make it less random, bus drivers will only be told they are bus drivers not where they fall in the order of the bussing

doused - you are doused
ignited - you have been burned alive
bus -you took a ride on a bus
mutable bus ride - you got more than one bus ride

arson spcific: you went to douse _____ but instead _____ was doused

lookout feedbacks
single - person (name) vistied target
mutible - people (name,name,name) visted target

detective feedback
your target visted ___________



Presigns
1. Bahkieh

[Cryptonic]

When an Arsonist undouses themselves, does a lookout see that as a self visit, or took no action?

How does multiple bus driving work?
If BD 1 busses A & B, and then BD 2 busses B & C; who gets bussed? Do they all get feedback?
What happens if an Arsonist douses B? What if he douses C?

[ika]

When an Arsonist undouses themselves, does a lookout see that as a self visit, or took no action?

it will count as self vist for bus drivin purpous

How does multiple bus driving work?

stated earlier that its a first come first serve, i will order the bus driving based off who sends me their night actions first. if they change actions they go to bottom of list. the may resumbit same action to try to change their placement

If BD 1 busses A & B, and BD 2 busses B & C; who gets bussed, and who gets feedback?

assuming BD 1 sent night action first, A and B will be swapped first making A the new B so whe bus driver 2 swaps A and C will be swapped and vice versia. so it would be at begining ABC (after bd1) BAC (after bus 2) BCA

What happens if an Arsonist douses B? What if he douses C?

dependend on who submits bussing actions first

using last example dosuing B would cause C to be doused and dousing C would cause A to be doused

everyone will have a letter that i know (ie player 1 will be A player 2 will be B, ect) after bus drivers say who is buss i will move the letter accordingly

[Cryptonic]

Yea, sorry I worded it back, but I changed it before you started posted. But yes, that's what I meant.

by it being self-visit for bd purposes, you mean that if an Arsonist is undousing and he gets bussed, he undouses who he was bussed with?

[ika]

Yea, sorry I worded it back, but I changed it before you started posted. But yes, that's what I meant.

by it being self-visit for bd purposes, you mean that if an Arsonist is undousing and he gets bussed, he undouses who he was bussed with?

hmmmm.... troublesome... it would make it nearly impossible for arson to undouse self... to counter if bus driving causes arson to "visit" a doused target they will both be undoused but arson will be shown only visiting that target

i will be adding that undousing is only known to arsons you can be doused over and over even if already doused

[Orpz]

sweet jesus have mercy

it's gonna be very hard for the survivor imo, maybe give him 2 fireproof vests?
he has to time them correctly to survive.

[Damus_Graves]

Inb4 Bus Driver bussing self with Survivor each night.

[BorkBot]

Do arsonists win together or alone?

[ika]

Do arsonists win together or alone?

arsonist win together. as long as one wins in then end they both win. thats why i have if one arson gets lynched the 2nd arson can light all doused targets instead of just his own

[BorkBot]

Does undouse happen at the same point in the OoO as douse?

[ika]

Does undouse happen at the same point in the OoO as douse?

douse and undouse will happen at same time will fix

[BorkBot]

if one arson gets lynched before ignite other arson may ignite all doused targets
Should say
if one arsonist dies before ignite other arson may ignite all doused targets

Otherwise it looks like he can't ignite the other arsonist's targets if the other arsonist got killed by his ignite.

[ika]

Should say
if one arsonist dies before ignite other arson may ignite all doused targets

Otherwise it looks like he can't ignite the other arsonist's targets if the other arsonist got killed by his ignite.

copied and pasted now says that

[Titus]

Would lookout feedback indicate bussed? Ex: Jane visited Paul but was bussed before she could act. Another bus came back and dropped Jane back at Pauls. OR Jane visited Paul.

[BorkBot]

Would lookout feedback indicate bussed? Ex: Jane visited Paul but was bussed before she could act. Another bus came back and dropped Jane back at Pauls. OR Jane visited Paul.
Lookout only sees visitors, it doesn't see BD misdirection/feedback itself.

So it'd just be jane visited paul.

[BorkBot]

Approved (others before you on queue are not ready to host)

[NoctiZ]

I am hereby /presigning to your game. Looks like funny shit.

[ika]

Approved (others before you on queue are not ready to host)

sweeeeeeeetttttt time for the bus driving galore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[powerofdeath]

Does th arson know who they doused?
Like if arson 1 target person 1 but person 1 get swapped with person 2, do arson know person 2 is doused like in sc2?

[ika]

Does th arson know who they doused?
Like if arson 1 target person 1 but person 1 get swapped with person 2, do arson know person 2 is doused like in sc2?

in sc2 they dont know who is exaclty doused. whoever they tagret is who they will (attempt) to douse.

i think it said you will go douse person X. who you accualy douse can be misdrirected

to answer your question i will message the arson who them attempted to soude if they change targets if they only pick one target i prob wont say anything to arson.

also douse notification is on. so the target that gets doused will be informed

[BorkBot]

in sc2 they dont know who is exaclty doused. whoever they tagret is who they will (attempt) to douse.

This is actually false. Arsonists in SC2 DO know exactly who they doused. They will see it despite witching/bussing.

Trust me on this. When I'm arso in SC2 mafia, I try to use this knowledge to my advantage to false claim BD, which is easier to do than lookout if your target actually gets swapped...

[ika]

after some consideration and some questions i have change things slightly for more of ballance and make less random

changes:
bus driving will now be in a predeterimed order. bus drivers will be given bus role card but not tole where they fall in the order.

arson will be infromed of who they attemted to douse, but will also be informed of who was accualy doused

[Phyr]

Sounds like a day 2 role claim galore followed by the solving of a puzzle. It feels to me like the arsons are screwed. But I didn't math it out. The puzzle should be fun though.

[NoctiZ]

Sounds like a day 2 role claim galore followed by the solving of a puzzle. It feels to me like the arsons are screwed. But I didn't math it out. The puzzle should be fun though.

Scum will just claim Bus Driver and try to WIFOM their way through it, don't think it's too bad.

[ika]

Sounds like a day 2 role claim galore followed by the solving of a puzzle. It feels to me like the arsons are screwed. But I didn't math it out. The puzzle should be fun though.

you forget lookouts can be misdirected who who they get their results on. if they target A but after all bussing they could be on target B. lookouts dont know who they are getting results on only arson know.

unless if sc2 lookouts are like arosn and they get to know who they saw even after misdirections

[Phyr]

you forget lookouts can be misdirected who who they get their results on. if they target A but after all bussing they could be on target B. lookouts dont know who they are getting results on only arson know.

unless if sc2 lookouts are like arosn and they get to know who they saw even after misdirections
I realize that, but still I think that the Arsons are screwed.
Survivor has no reason to lie about his role and feedback. It's more like to die to an arson than to win with the arsons. Therefore the Survivor is a Citizen.
The Lookout doesn't know who he watched, but he definitely saw everybody visiting him. And that's more than enough information combined with the driving pairs claimed by the bus drivers.

Game strategy is as follows:
Everybody role claims.
Everybody gives their night action targets and the results (if Lookout).
Everybody gives their night feedback (bus driven times x).
Puzzle time!
One or two Arsonists are discovered.
Town wins.

So what can the Arsonist actually do?
Claiming Survivor as Arsonist is plain suicide (A lookout might reveal you right there).
So only Lookout and Bus Driver remains to be claimed.
A Lookout claim is much more likely to be found out as such I think both will claim Bus Driver.
But let's go through the scenarios:
1. Lookout 4, Bus Driver 4
Lookouts give their results first. Unless an Arsonist gets really lucky the fake results will easily spotted after the Bus Drivers give their pairings away. Both Arsonists exposed.
2. Lookout 3 Bus Driver 5
Again Lookouts give their results first. Pretty much revealing the Arsonist, because the results are hard to fake (you don't know which bus driver drove whom). One Arsonist exposed. The feedback claims will then reveal the second one.
3. Lookout 2 Bus Driver 6
This time the Bus Drivers go first. If there are two Bus Drivers switching the same targets the second one is more likely to be the Arsonist as he copied the results of the Bus Driver to make sure that he has consistent results. After that the Lookouts will give their results. Now everybody claims the feedback they received, beginning with the bus drivers. If there are a wrong number of feedback messages (total !=8), we know that the Arsonists lied about their feedback. Now all that is left to do is to take all the claims, assume that 2 are lying and look how it possible to make the claims check out with the Lookout results. This will be the puzzle that is to be solved. I'm not sure if it will be unambiguous, but I think it's likely it will be.

Well, that is why I think that the Arsonists are screwed. And their night feedback might be a little bit helpful, but they will be screwed if their "result" was the result of the interaction of multiple bus drivers. Plus, the Lookouts are there to finish them.
sopleasedontmakemearso XD

[ika]

I realize that, but still I think that the Arsons are screwed.
Survivor has no reason to lie about his role and feedback. It's more like to die to an arson than to win with the arsons. Therefore the Survivor is a Citizen.
The Lookout doesn't know who he watched, but he definitely saw everybody visiting him. And that's more than enough information combined with the driving pairs claimed by the bus drivers.

Game strategy is as follows:
Everybody role claims.
Everybody gives their night action targets and the results (if Lookout).
Everybody gives their night feedback (bus driven times x).
Puzzle time!
One or two Arsonists are discovered.
Town wins.

So what can the Arsonist actually do?
Claiming Survivor as Arsonist is plain suicide (A lookout might reveal you right there).
So only Lookout and Bus Driver remains to be claimed.
A Lookout claim is much more likely to be found out as such I think both will claim Bus Driver.
But let's go through the scenarios:
1. Lookout 4, Bus Driver 4
Lookouts give their results first. Unless an Arsonist gets really lucky the fake results will easily spotted after the Bus Drivers give their pairings away. Both Arsonists exposed.
2. Lookout 3 Bus Driver 5
Again Lookouts give their results first. Pretty much revealing the Arsonist, because the results are hard to fake (you don't know which bus driver drove whom). One Arsonist exposed. The feedback claims will then reveal the second one.
3. Lookout 2 Bus Driver 6
This time the Bus Drivers go first. If there are two Bus Drivers switching the same targets the second one is more likely to be the Arsonist as he copied the results of the Bus Driver to make sure that he has consistent results. After that the Lookouts will give their results. Now everybody claims the feedback they received, beginning with the bus drivers. If there are a wrong number of feedback messages (total !=8), we know that the Arsonists lied about their feedback. Now all that is left to do is to take all the claims, assume that 2 are lying and look how it possible to make the claims check out with the Lookout results. This will be the puzzle that is to be solved. I'm not sure if it will be unambiguous, but I think it's likely it will be.

Well, that is why I think that the Arsonists are screwed. And their night feedback might be a little bit helpful, but they will be screwed if their "result" was the result of the interaction of multiple bus drivers. Plus, the Lookouts are there to finish them.
sopleasedontmakemearso XD

ok what it is is a predeterimined order of bussing. everyone can claim bus everyone can give feedbacks. lookoouts can say i went to X, Y and Z visit however they dont know who they truly visted. bus drivers will most likly bus themselfs with another and thats where the arsons can pull it off if a bus driver said i bussed X and Y, someone could say well i saw you vist Z its more elaborate then that

[Phyr]

I ran some tests. Most of the time there is no definite evidence against an Arsonist. Only a 50/50 chance to get him (with some smart result claiming on the side of the Arsonists).
Though in every scenario (after some night action coordination) the Arsonists will be lynched the following days, if they didn't manage to douse town only and get the survivor to side with them.

But of course all of that only works if the (town) players coordinate and are active during the day (which I think, won't happen - time zone issues and others).

Will the game start at day or at night?
I'd prefer to start with a day to discuss strategy with the other players before heading into the night.
On the other hand, that will make it even harder for the Arsonists. So starting at night is probably better for the balance.

[ika]

Will the game start at day or at night?


it always starts at day. the prblem is that even with time zone diffrence is that ppl can come on and read what they posted. dont worry it will be fine overall

[BorkBot]

Games do start at night sometimes, and it wouldn't be so bad in this case because nobody will die night 1 anyway. So all can participate regardless.

[ika]

Games do start at night sometimes, and it wouldn't be so bad in this case because nobody will die night 1 anyway. So all can participate regardless.

hmmm have it start night one with everyone submitting a night action... iusally like to make my day 1s no lynch . but everyone just afks it seems like. so night one with night actions

also i am considering fixing lookout feedback to say person X visted target and not person X vistest person Y due to the bus drivng i feel like it might be misinterpreted then

[BorkBot]

Yeah, X visited target is the proper feedback.

Only arsonist should know exactly who their target was.

[Cryptonic]

Yeah, X visited target is the proper feedback.

Only arsonist should know exactly who their target was.

Yes, in any game where redirection roles are possible, feedback should be "x visited your target", "your target visited x", "your target was gf/cit".
If you start saying things like "BorkBot visited x" there is no question if you targeted your actual target or not :o

[Phyr]

Just put the Jester drugging on top of the OoO and he will naturally ignore bus driving redirections.

[ika]

Just put the Jester drugging on top of the OoO and he will naturally ignore bus driving redirections.

fair point... DONE

[Phyr]

Will you limit the bus driving feedback to one? I don't think it's needed anymore with the Jester.

[ika]

Will you limit the bus driving feedback to one? I don't think it's needed anymore with the Jester.

yes the bus driver will only be one single feedback. but with the jester i might put back overlapping feedbacks of bus driving.

also this will be starting on day one not night one

Edit: to compenstate you will be told bus driven mutilbe times not how many

EDIT 2: jester may drung mutible bus as well

[louiswill]

some more confusions for towns are good.

[BorkBot]

So if a jester drugs bus driving single/multiple and the target was actually bus driven, they will immediately know they were jester drugged because they got 2 messages instead of 1?

[ika]

So if a jester drugs bus driving single/multiple and the target was actually bus driven, they will immediately know they were jester drugged because they got 2 messages instead of 1?

if they got legitamenly bussed and then jester drugs a single bus driving i will convert it to that they got driven mutable time. if they are being mutable driven already it will just fade in with it. the dding overlaps with any real feedbacks.

examples:

one bus + any drug bus = mutable bus

faing arson douse + real douse = doused

no bus + single bus drug = one bus driven

mutable bus + any bus drug = mutable bus

hope that clears it up

[ika]

slight change made:

all bussing is now one feedback of you being bused, dding will overlap

replace one lookout with a detective to have more confusion

something was consider adding: when left with one arson the douse notification is turned off...

Thoughts on that?

[Cryptonic]

Hmm, Does the Lookout see who all Bus Drivers, even though it's only one feedback?
Also, I think the Bussing Drug hurts town more if they receive more than one bussed feedback. Then people will be like, "oh I was bussed 2 times, I wonder what the order was", when in reality they were only bussed once.

I do like the idea of Lookout + Detective, though.

[Apache]

removing douse notification if there's only one arso left is good.
but i don't like not informing ppl how often they're drived. that removes the fun of trying to figure out what actually happened. i like the single/multiple feedback

[ika]

due to the demands and what seems like a slight ballance. i will have mutable bus driven feedback put back in. however it will not disclose how many times you were bus driven

so the feedback will look like this

single bus driven: you were bus driven

more then one: you took more then one bus ride

as for lookout if they pick target X but after the bussings they end up watching Target Y anyone who visted or made the bussing to the target will be shown in the feedback

the jester dding bus is to make more confusion i think the new detective/lookout will make more sense on deaing with it.

again i will have the bus riding in predetrimed order. the dding will be unaffacted by bussing so when the DDing jester sends his drug it will be set in stone

[BorkBot]

I think it's been sufficiently improved. Expect approval shortly (if Blazer doesn't jump in first)

[Titus]

How does the DD Jester win?

[BorkBot]

It says Get lynched in the rolecard.

I assume that's his winning condition.

[ika]

It says Get lynched in the rolecard.

I assume that's his winning condition.

that is correct jesters goals are to be lynched is it not? unless the host decides to change it (but no it is for dding jester to be lynched. will make sure its in there

Edit: added lynched to win as well as added jesters greif in OoO

[Bahkieh]

/presign

[ika]

/presign

added.

i will be taking presigns as well if anyone is intrested. if we can get a full list going i will just go witht he game the moment it get approved.

the presigns will be posted in first post

[BorkBot]

Approved