S-FM: Trust

[RLVG]

S-FM Trust

Can you really trust your friends?



Setup :

Town
- Sheriff
- Jailor
- Doctor
- Escort
- Mason Leader
- Citizen
- Citizen



Neutral Faction
- Cultist



Insane Faction :
- Serial Killer



Random Faction (Insane, Town or Neutral)
- Executioner
- Investigator



Sheriff
- Target one each night to see if they are Insane Faction, Evil Cult or innocent.
- The Executioner's target is shown as either Insane Faction or Evil Cult.

Jailor
- Target one at day, perfectly roleblocking them in jail the following night.
- Can't jail if a lynch happens.
- Jailed victim becomes immune.
- Shares a night chat with the jail victim, has a limit of 2 executions.

Doctor
- Target one each night to heal them from attacks.
- Gains the ability to prevent cult conversion if the cult turns Evil.

Escort
- Target one each night, roleblocking them from any actions.
- Can prevent executions.

Mason Leader
- Cannot be converted to a Cult.
- Target one each night, preventing cult conversion or when Cult turns evil, kill them when targeted.
- Will be notified if a Neutral / Evil cult attempts to recruit the Mason Leader, confirming it's identity.

Citizen
- Manual single charge vests that prevents attacks and conversion.
- Cannot be recruited by the Mason Leader.



Cultist
- Starts out as Neutral.
- If the Cult recruits a Serial Killer, everyone in the cult turns evil.
- Target one each night to attempt convert them to the Cult.
- If one is successfully recruited, the Cult can't recruit the next night.
- The Evil Cult wins if they have the voting majority.



Serial Killer
- Target one each night to attack them.
- If Roleblocked, kills the roleblocker and the focused target.
- Can be dual-roleblocked to prevent actions



Executioner
- The Executioner recieves a random target of any faction which must be lynched.
- Commits suicide if the target is killed without being lynched.
- Immune to cult conversion and attacks.
- If Insane, notified if Serial Killer is converted.

Investigator
- Target one each night to see their exact role.
- If Insane, notified if Serial Killer is converted.



Order of Opperatons :
- Jailor jails
- Citizen Vests
- Escort roleblocks
- Kills / execution / Suicide
- Doctor heals
- Investigations
- Mason Leader visits (Pre-evil cult)
- Cult Conversion
- Mason Leader visits



Win Conditions :
- Town needs to have dealt with Insane Faction and Evil Cult.
- Insane Faction needs to deal with the Town.
- Evil Cult needs to deal with the Town.
- Neutral wins by surviving with the winning faction.
- Executioner must lynch his target in order to be able to win with his faction.
If tie situations : Serial Killer / Cult -> Insane Faction -> Town



Mechanics :

Cult
- The Cult starts out as a Town sharing a night chat.
- There's no limit how large the Cult can become.
- If the Cult recruit the Serial Killer, the Cult becomes EVIL.

Random Faction :
- Two extra that will be put randomly to either 3 factions.
- If Insane, works together with the Serial Killer. (Does not know identity)
- The Random Faction will not be told what faction they are part of.

Lynching :
- If one receives majority of the votes, that person will be hammered and lynched.
- Lynches end the day early.

Extra :
- Last Wills are allowed, but lasts only for the night and following day. Update it, or it will be lost.
- Serial Killer may do a deathnote, announcing at day if it's victim dies.
- The Day / Night lasts 24 hours.



Basic Rules :

- Do not edit or delete posts.
- Do not post videos, however pictures are all legit.
- Use the language English.
- Do not discuss the game outside of the thread of provided night chats.
- Post at least three times per day to show the required activity.

[creedkingsx]

If cult only becomes evil upon converting the sk, why does the sk wins tires over, specifically, the evil cult

[RLVG]

If cult only becomes evil upon converting the sk, why does the sk wins tires over, specifically, the evil cult

Quick error made, I originally had a Student around in my notepad. I'll fix it.

Edit : I fixed it by adding a / between SK and Cult.

[creedkingsx]

Oh ok, looks good. ^^

[BorkBot]

This one or Workplace? (you haven't posted to substitute workplace in the approval queue thread)

[RLVG]

This one or Workplace? (you haven't posted to substitute workplace in the approval queue thread)

Oh, I take this one over Workplace but Workplace would be next after this.

Sorry that I haven't given a message about it. :cheesy:

[BorkBot]

Quick error made, I originally had a Student around in my notepad. I'll fix it.

Edit : I fixed it by adding a / between SK and Cult.

The winning conditions still seem to contradict this:

- Serial Killer needs to deal with the town and Evil cult.
- Evil Cult needs to deal with the Town and Evil Faction.
Or did you mean to say if the cult tries to convert the serial killer, the conversion will fail and they still become evil?

And if the serial killer does become part of the cult, do any evil randoms win with the Evil Cult as well or do they start to operate solo?

If there are no limits on the number of cult recruits, what's to stop people from forming a massive cult to make sure only the mason leader loses the game and everyone else wins?

Is the executioner's target associated with the faction he is part of? i.e. if he is a Town aligned executioner, is his target always an Evil? If he is Evil, is his target always Town?

The mason leader's night action has no effect unless the cult becomes evil?

When a cultist tries to convert him, is a mason leader notified what type of cultist visited him?


- Can kill multiple targets who have attempted roleblocking.
Does this mean he kills any people who try to block him? Does it mean he will ignore an escort roleblock and kill both the escort and the originally intended target? Wording is slightly confusing.

[RLVG]

Or did you mean to say if the cult tries to convert the serial killer, the conversion will fail and they still become evil?

And if the serial killer does become part of the cult, do any evil randoms win with the Evil Cult as well or do they start to operate solo?

If there are no limits on the number of cult recruits, what's to stop people from forming a massive cult to make sure only the mason leader loses the game and everyone else wins?

1. I've made an error, ironically the same mistake as before. I'm fixing it. (SK will be converted)

2. They will be solo.

3. Cult starts as a town, once it has become evil it will split the town. Mason knows of a cult that tries to convert him, Mason kills an evil cult, Doctor prevents any conversion, Citizen can vest to prevent any conversion, escort can deny the action of conversion and last Jailor can jail. In addition, if Cult successfully recruit someone then they cannot recruit the following night.
Agreeing to make a large cult is too slow and dangerous.

Is the executioner's target associated with the faction he is part of? i.e. if he is a Town aligned executioner, is his target always an Evil? If he is Evil, is his target always Town?
There is no restriction, random.
A Town Executioner may have a Town Target, Evil Executioner may have the SK as a target.

The mason leader's night action has no effect unless the cult becomes evil?When a cultist tries to convert him, is a mason leader notified what type of cultist visited him?
The Mason Leader is immune to being converted to a cult while being able to learn of it's identity, Town or Evil confirmed.
When Cult has become evil, the Mason Leader will be able to kill - either if target is Cult or being recruited by cult the same night.


Does this mean he kills any people who try to block him? Does it mean he will ignore an escort roleblock and kill both the escort and the originally intended target? Wording is slightly confusing.

The SK will kill his Original Target if Roleblocked, but unable to manualy target if jailed.
The maximun of kills would be 2 : Jailor jails and escort blocks, or escort blocks + original target.

I have answered, if there's a balance issue with what I've said then please suggest a change that would solve it.
I'm updating the text to clarify and make it easier to read.

I've changed Evil Faction to Insane Faction to make it easier to differ between Evil Faction and Evil Cult.

Edit :
Updated the Tie Situations to also reflect upon a possible Executioner / Investigator that rolls Insane.



Question of balance :
- Should the Mason Leader be able to prevent Town Conversions?
- Should the SK be nerfed so it can be roleblocked by escort if jailed?
- Should the Cult only have the recruit restriction as only Town or Evil?
- Should the Exe / Inv Insane be notified if the SK has become converted?

[Sinclair]

I'm not one for pre-set roles, but this seems like it could be interesting.

I'm looking forward to it.

[BorkBot]

Cult starts as a town, once it has become evil it will split the town. Mason knows of a cult that tries to convert him, Mason kills an evil cult, Doctor prevents any conversion, Citizen can vest to prevent any conversion, escort can deny the action of conversion and last Jailor can jail. In addition, if Cult successfully recruit someone then they cannot recruit the following night.
Agreeing to make a large cult is too slow and dangerous.
Regardless of all these night actions, the players could coordinate during the day that they want all but 1 player to win. Then the jailor won't jail, the cit won't vest, the doc won't heal, etc. They just sit and wait, never lynch and get rid of the mason leader once they have found him.

Unless you make it mechanically impossible to do this, I'd recommend you include a rule that town players are not allowed to voluntarily help the cult and that skipping night actions without good reason will result in replacement.

Do roles keep their powers if they get converted to the cult?


1 Should the Mason Leader be able to prevent Town Conversions?
2 Should the SK be nerfed so it can be roleblocked by escort if jailed?
3 Should the Cult only have the recruit restriction as only Town or Evil?
4 Should the Exe / Inv Insane be notified if the SK has become converted?
1. In my opinion, yes. Maybe give that ability to the Mason Leader instead of the Doctor. It will mean the ML has a use early on.
2. In my opinion, yes. Though I would consider that a buff to the SK rather than a nerf, because it will make it less likely that he'll get immediately executed.
3. The recruit restriction is fine, but I think the cult should start out as Benign Neutral rather than Town, to discourage day 2 mass claims (which are boring).
4. I think insane Exe and Inv completely lose their ability to win if they don't get converted themselves. Why not let Insane win with Evil Cult after SK conversion? Or if the cult starts as Benign, allow them to win with the cult from the start. They're too reliant on the SK at the moment, who doesn't even know who they are.

[ika]

Regardless of all these night actions, the players could coordinate during the day that they want all but 1 player to win. Then the jailor won't jail, the cit won't vest, the doc won't heal, etc. They just sit and wait, never lynch and get rid of the mason leader once they have found him.

Unless you make it mechanically impossible to do this, I'd recommend you include a rule that town players are not allowed to voluntarily help the cult and that skipping night actions without good reason will result in replacement.


possible solution: mandaorty lynch?

[RLVG]

Regardless of all these night actions, the players could coordinate during the day that they want all but 1 player to win. Then the jailor won't jail, the cit won't vest, the doc won't heal, etc. They just sit and wait, never lynch and get rid of the mason leader once they have found him.

Unless you make it mechanically impossible to do this, I'd recommend you include a rule that town players are not allowed to voluntarily help the cult and that skipping night actions without good reason will result in replacement.

Do roles keep their powers if they get converted to the cult?


1. In my opinion, yes. Maybe give that ability to the Mason Leader instead of the Doctor. It will mean the ML has a use early on.
2. In my opinion, yes. Though I would consider that a buff to the SK rather than a nerf, because it will make it less likely that he'll get immediately executed.
3. The recruit restriction is fine, but I think the cult should start out as Benign Neutral rather than Town, to discourage day 2 mass claims (which are boring).
4. I think insane Exe and Inv completely lose their ability to win if they don't get converted themselves. Why not let Insane win with Evil Cult after SK conversion? Or if the cult starts as Benign, allow them to win with the cult from the start. They're too reliant on the SK at the moment, who doesn't even know who they are.

They do not keep their powers, instead a plain cultist.

Let's say the Cult is Benign -
How does this sound? ;
Mason Leader is able to prevent cult conversion while the Cult is still Benign (but doctor can't yet), but once they turn Evil the Doctor should be able to prevent conversion while the Mason Leader is to kill Evil Cult.

I'll "nerf/buff" the SK so that the SK can be double-roleblocked.

For the Insane Exe/Inv, that's a better solution. I'll let them be able to win with the Evil Cult and Benign Cult.
If SK is converted, the Insane Exe / Inv will be notified the SK is converted - now knowing what faction they are part of, otherwise there's no other option for them to know.



Now, to the "Bad Game Play" of everyone agreeing to become converted as a cult.
A solution could be to have a 12th slot, a role that counters it in a flexible way to prevent such. "Prevent the cult from growing"?

(Won't edit the main topic just yet)

[42shadow42]

Now, to the "Bad Game Play" of everyone agreeing to become converted as a cult.
A solution could be to have a 12th slot, a role that counters it in a flexible way to prevent such. "Prevent the cult from growing"?


It stands to reason that anyone intended to use this strategy would simply not sign up, because the game would be horribly boring.

[BorkBot]

Let's say the Cult is Benign -
How does this sound? ;
Mason Leader is able to prevent cult conversion while the Cult is still Benign (but doctor can't yet), but once they turn Evil the Doctor should be able to prevent conversion while the Mason Leader is to kill Evil Cult.
This sounds good. I like it. Just be sure to clarify it in the rolecards :)


For the Insane Exe/Inv, that's a better solution. I'll let them be able to win with the Evil Cult and Benign Cult.
If SK is converted, the Insane Exe / Inv will be notified the SK is converted - now knowing what faction they are part of, otherwise there's no other option for them to know.

+1

Be sure to clarify it in winning conditions.


Now, to the "Bad Game Play" of everyone agreeing to become converted as a cult.
A solution could be to have a 12th slot, a role that counters it in a flexible way to prevent such. "Prevent the cult from growing"?
Not that you can't add a 12th role if you want, but this seems like a roundabout solution to me. If you just make a rule that you'll replace people who don't submit a night action or skip for no reason, they will lose by gamethrowing like that either way.

Another common solution in cult games is to make the game end as soon as the Evil Cult has a voting majority. SK will be assimilated and any insane neutrals will win with them too, so at that point it becomes statistically impossible to overcome them even with help from the ML. This means that the bigger the Evil Cult gets, the less likely it becomes for remaining townsmembers to join the Evil Cult and win with them. They will HAVE to oppose them.

[RLVG]

I have updated the main topic.

[BorkBot]

Approved