M-FM: Gates to Infinity

[Fragos]

Truth or Ideals? You choose!

Alright, guys, you made your choice well! The next M-FM from me will be your second choice, where five factions are battling their way with each other! So now I'll present to you another interesting and exciting game - M-FM Gates to Infinity!

Role list:

Sheriff
Hidden Enforcer
Hidden Enforcer

Puppeteer
Hidden Trickster
Hidden Trickster

Big Boss
Hidden Outlaw
Hidden Outlaw

Rebel Leader
Hidden Rebel

Town Power
Town Power/Citizen
Town Power/Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen

Hidden Enforcer roles: Jailor, Vigilante, Bodyguard, Detective, Coroner, Veteran
Hidden Trickster roles: Drug Dealer, Disguiser, Gunsmith, Bus Driver, Framer, Spy
Hidden Outlaw roles: Underling, Consort, Blackmailer, Janitor, Disguiser, Kidnapper
Hidden Rebel roles: Scout, Lookout, Enchantress
Hidden Town Power roles: Mayor, Doctor, Armorsmith, Journalist, Escort, Crier

The primary goal of each faction is to defeat their corresponding enemies and then at least one member of the team must survive until the game ends. It is possible to make alliances between some teams. All faction members (except for Town) have shared night chat.

The win conditions are as following:

Enforcers - Elimiante Outlaws and Rebels
Tricksters - Eliminate Town and Rebels
Outlaws - Eliminate Enforcers and Town
Rebels - Eliminate Enforcers and Tricksters
Town - Eliminate Outlaws and Tricksters

The Enforcers all have the shared ability to check a single person for exact alignment. Only one of then can use this action at night. Normally it is used by Sheriff, but any other Enforcer can use it as well if Sheriff is dead or chooses not to do anything. Town members and Enforcers (in case of Trickster control) will show up as "not suspicious". While Enforcers are a solid faction, that can't win on their own; they must be backed up by allied faction in order to survive!

The Tricksters cannot kill, but they can use Witch's abililty to control players at night. Only one of then can use this action at night. The witch action is normally used by Puppeteer, but any other Trikster can use it as well if Puppeteer is dead or chooses not to do anything. If left ignored, that chan shift the tides entirely in their favor!

The Outlaws can kill one person per night, as usual. Only one of then can use this action at night. Normally kills are made by Big Boss, but any other Outlaw can kill as well if Big Boss is dead or chooses not to do anything. At the start of the game, Big Boss can choose detection immunity or night kill immunity, but not both. As the faction that can kill every night, they are will feared enough!

The Rebels can recruit one Town role in their ranks. All Town roles (except for Mayor) join automatically. Ordinary Rebels can only be sent to recruit someone if Leader is alive; if Leader and Hidden Rebel are dead, the remaining Rebels will be on their own. Rebels have a max limit of 4 recruits for the entire game; it is possible for Rebels to be 6 man strong if they are left ignored. If a Town Power role is recruited, Rebels skip their next recruiting night.

The rest of players are Town. Note that Town cannot make the majority on their own; they will probably have to rely on Enforcer/Rebel extra votes to gain majority.

The role descriptions and order of operations will come out soon. The list of FM names is hidden for now; once this game becomes approved, i'll ask Slaol to create a new set of M-FM accounts. Death notes and last wills will be disabled; as such, the factions must use the day chat in order to gain more information.
Role cards:

Enforcer roles:
Sheriff - Basic role, can only use a standard Enforcer check. Detect target player's exact alignment.
Jailor - Each night can detain one person in jail. Can target teammates. The jailed person is roleblocked, immune to night kills and will be locked out of any possible night chats. Jailor can execute his target, but only if no lynch occured on the last day. Maximum of 2 executions.
Vigilante - A killing role for Enforcer team. Initially has 2 shots. Any guns that he would receive will be added to the shot count.
Bodyguard - Can protect another player from being attacked and intercept the attacker. Bodyguard will kill the attacker (unless he is night immune) and die in the process unless he was healed or armored. Also can prevent his target from being recruited by Rebels.
Detective - Can track his target to see whom he visited.
Coroner - Can check a dead body for exact role and history of night actions.

Trickster roles:

Puppeteer - Basic role, can only use the Witch control action.
Drug Dealer - Can drug his victim, making him to believe that he was attacked and healed, roleblocked, witched, bussed, or received a fake gun or armor.
Disguiser - The most devious of Tricksters. Once in a game, can make a disguise kill (target's role will be cleaned). After successful disguise, he gains access to target's night chat, but does not inherit his victim's role. Killing a revealed Mayor will allow the Disguiser to keep his vote power
Gunsmith - Can give 1-shot gun to target player. Your target must not be one of the Tricksters. There is no limit on how many guns Gunsmith can make, but he can be killed before he gives out any item. Gan give fake guns to his targets.
Bus Driver - Can switch 2 players each night, redirecting night actions aimed at then.
Framer - Frames his target as role of Framer's choice OR dresses a player for a single night/day cycle as any possible role (except for ???). Detective and Lookout will also see false information of Framer's choice.
Spy - Appear as "recruitable" to Scout, but retains his Trickster alignment after being "recruited". Spy can send one anonymous private message to another player each night. Spy cannot be tracked by Detective or Lookout.


Outlaw roles:
Big Boss - The leader of Outlaws. Is usually the main Outlaw killing role. At the start of the game, can choose either detection immunity or night kill immunity, but not both.
Underling - Check his target for exact role and alignment. Keep Framer in mind!
Consort - Roleblocks his target, preventing him from acting.
Janitor - Cleans his victim's role, while another outlaw is doing the killings. Janitor can clean roles up to 3 times.
Blackmailer - Blackmails his target with a certain demand. Should the target not meet the demand on the following day, they will commit suicide the day following the blackmail, and publicly terrify the Town, preventing them from lynching for that day. Should your target claim blackmailed they will become permanently barred from using any role abilities gained after the start of the game.
Kidnapper - Each night can detain one person in jail. Can target teammates. The jailed person is roleblocked, immune to night kills and will be locked out of any possible night chats. Kidnapper can execute his target, but only if no lynch occured on the last day. Maximum of 1 execution. Kidnapper can use his execution separately from Outlaw kill.

Rebel roles:
Rebel Leader - Can recruit a Citizen or Town Power role in ranks of a Rebel team. While he is alive, he can also send his recruits instead.
Scout - Can check his target for being a recruitable Citizen or not.
Lookout - Can watch his target learning the names of anyone who visit then. Cannot watch self.
Enchantress - Can go on alert up to 2 times. Anyone who visits Enchantress while she is on alert becomes roleblocked.
Rebel - Citizens becomes Rebels after being recruited. Town Power roles keeps their abilities.


Town roles:
Mayor - Can reveal himself to town. If he does, his voting power becomes equal to 2 votes.
Doctor - Can heal his target each night.
Escort - Can roleblock his target, preventing him from acting.
Armorsmith - Can give 1-use armor to target player. Armorsmith cannot give armor to Rebels if he decides to join then.
Journalist - Can interview one player each night. The article will be posted at the beginning of the each day.
Crier - Can post an article from himself each night. Crier's speech is similar to Journalist's article.




Jailing
Journalist Interviews
Night Chats Open
Veteran/Enchantress Alert
Witch Controls
Escort / Consort Blocks
Lookout / Detective Actions
Bus Driving
Bodyguard Protects
Framing/Talioring
Investigations
Killing Actions / Jailor Executes
Disguises take effect
Rebel Recruiting / Armorsmith/Gunsmith give out his item
Autopsies / Healing / Using Vest
Janitor/Disguiser cleaning
Blackmailing / Ventiloquist controls / Drugs Take Effect
Jailor Releases
Publishing a Newspaper / Crier's message

[Azuriae]

Ack, return of the Ventriloquist. Most anti-fun role in FMs. ;)

Also, no neutrals at all? I'm surprised.

[Cryptonic]

who has nightchats?

[Azuriae]

. All faction members (except for Town) have shared night chat.



;)

[Cryptonic]

Oh, what made you decide to start making all the other factions have night chats?
I remember Tycoons as BD + Spy that didn't know eachother lol

nvm that was the sfm lol

[Jim]

Were you joking when you said this will be the next M-FM? Also what's up with the name?

[Fragos]

I'm quite serious. This game will be in the next M-FM Poll along with Curse of Castle Varen, and BorkBot agreed to this. You just have to pick up your favorite choice when the poll starts.

[Gerik]

Isn't this just FM 17 with fewer players?

[Slaol]

Sheriff
Jailor
Bodyguard

Puppeteer
Bus Driver
Drug Dealer / Gunsmith

Godfather
Consigliere
Consort

Rebel Leader
Scout

Doctor
Mayor
Journalist
Citizens, because Citizens.

Needs Arsonist and Jester.

[Jim]

I'm quite serious. This game will be in the next M-FM Poll along with Curse of Castle Varen, and BorkBot agreed to this. You just have to pick up your favorite choice when the poll starts.

So Community will still be the next though?


Isn't this just FM 17 with fewer players?
No this one has a slightly different theme.

[Slaol]

So Community will still be the next though?

We shall... vote on it.

[Azuriae]

Witch and Ventriloquist together were a deadly combination, but in this setup the Tycoons can only afford one of then. What choice do you think they will make?

Probably Ventriloquist since It's pretty much a 5th member. :v
I just really hate the role as a whole. It should have some kind of restriction; such as not being able to target someone two days in a row.
Poor Big Mom didn't even get to play at all last game.

[ika]

Probably Ventriloquist since It's pretty much a 5th member. :v
I just really hate the role as a whole. It should have some kind of restriction; such as not being able to target someone two days in a row.
Poor Big Mom didn't even get to play at all last game.

what i see wrong is that anyone can give up night actions to do the main action. tycons can doo mass vantrill. mafia can do mass killing n1. GG

[Fragos]

You're wrong. Only one of then can do such an action.

Only one Outlaw can kill each night, only one Trickster can manipulate someone, and only one Enforcer can check his target's exact alignment. So it's fair.
Triskters cannot kill, but their lack of kill can be compensated with the chose ability to manipulate. Because they cannot kill on their own, they'll have to rely on someone else to eliminate Rebels and Town.

[ika]

well then i would fix the phrasing of it

[Apache]

9/20 townies doesn't seem fair to me. all factions can somewhat kill on their own apart from townies. FM17 had 19/35. also less then 3 TPR would not be fair. no neutrals but it doesn't need them, especially no evil.

[Fragos]

You should look at the very first Five-Side Town game, it had 5 factions (3 members each) and 5 neutral citizens that could not care which of then wins as long as they survive. Making citizens as part of Town faction can fix this balance problem.

Even if they don't know each other, the Town still have most of the voting power. The Enforcers are powerful as well (not as imba as they were in Cops and Robbers), but they need to win the favor of town over the Rebels first, or side with Tricksters if rebellion gets out of control.

The improtance of this game is that the balance of power is decided not only by game rules, but also by the players thenselves, because alliances between certain factions are possible.

[Apache]

sure i understand but why is the percentage of townies so much lower than in FM17? do you think town was OP in this FM?

[Fragos]

I told you that to compensate the low number of town, the purple faction will be unable to kill. And there will be no more Neutral roles to mess around.

That being said, look at how Cops and Robbers went. The first two factions that manage to cooperate with each other will get a head start in the game.

[Slaol]

the purple faction will be unable to kill.

Jailor/Vigilante 100% confirmed. More than the 99% confirmed it was before.
Full role cards please there Fragos.

[ika]

Jailor/Vigilante 100% confirmed. More than the 99% confirmed it was before.
Full role cards please there Fragos.

just looking at this i can figure out what each faction will most likely have

[Fragos]

I'll post full role cards when I get more free time. Maybe I can add one additional possible role for each faction.

[Slaol]

Town- Armorsmith
Rebel- Enchantress
Mafia- Consort
Tycoons- Gunsmith
Police- something inbound?

These are the reasons Drug Dealer is confirmed.

[Apache]

but purple can kill if they get a gunsmith

[Slaol]

but purple can kill if they get a gunsmith

I just told you Drug Dealer was in game to fake Gunsmith. Also, Gunsmith likely can't target CP9.. er, tycoons.

[Apache]

yea idk but that doesnt exclude gunsmith, does it

[Fragos]

Oh yeah I forget to tell you, but in the fist game Gunsmith could only give guns to non-Trickster players. You'll see it more clearly once role descriptions will be added.

[Fragos]

While I am still busy to write up the role cards and order of operations, I should be straight and truthful to you.

The theme for this Forum Mafia will come out from the recently released game in US - Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Gates to Infinity. That being said, this setup is still going to compete with M-FM Community on the next poll, so the final choice for the next M-FM will be made by you guys! The choice is all yours.

[ika]

the cult of slaol has already decided the outcome

[Fragos]

Alright, everyone! It's time to write up the detailed role cards. Some extra possible roles were added, and they are based on recent SC2 Mafia roles. Let's see then close up!

Enforcer roles:

Sheriff - Basic role, can only use a standard Enforcer check. Detect target player's exact alignment. Big Boss is undetectable.
Jailor - Each night can detain one person in jail. Can target teammates. The jailed person is immune to night kills and will be locked out of any possible night chats. Jailor can execute his target, but only if no lynch occured on the last day. Maximum of 2 executions.
Vigilante - A killing role for Enforcer team. Initially has 2 shots. Any guns that he would receive will be addet to the shot count.
Bodyguard - Can protect another player from being attacked and predict the name of the attacker. Bodyguard will die in the process unless he was healed or predicted attacker's identity correctly. Also can prevent his target from being recruited by Rebels.
Detective - Can track his target to see whom he visited. Big Boss cannot be tracked by Detective.
Veteran - Can go on alert (only on self). Will kill anyone who tries to visit him while on alert. Veteran can only go on alert up to 2 times in the game.
Coroner - Can check a dead body for exact role and history of night actions.

Trickster roles:

Puppeteer - Basic role, can only use the Witch control action.
Drug Dealer - Can drug his victim, making him to believe that he was attacked and healed, roleblocked, witched, bussed, or received a fake gun or armor.
Spy - Can send private message to one player each night, and to one player once again each day. Spy appears to be as Citizen to Rebels and can be "recruited" by then, allowing him eventually to learn their identities.
Gunsmith - Can give 1-shot gun to target player. Your target must not be one of the Tricksters. There is no limit on how many guns Gunsmith can make, but he can be killed before he gives out any item.
Bus Driver - Can switch 2 players each night, redirecting night actions aimed at then.
Framer - Frames his target as role of Framer's choice. Detective and Lookout will also see false information of Framer's choice.
Ventriloquist - Picks a target duting the night. The Ventriloquist will then be able to speak in place of his target during the next day. A revealed Mayor cannot be controlled by Ventriloqust.

Outlaw roles:

Big Boss - The leader of Outlaws. Immnute to detection from Enforcers. Is usually the main Outlaw killing role.
Underling - Check his target for exact role and alignment. Keep Framer in mind!
Consort - Roleblocks his target, preventing him from acting.
Blackmailer - Blackmails his target, preventing him from talking not only of the following day, but also on the following night! Yes, blackmail can even prevent the victim to talk in night chat. The only thing a victim is allowed to say in day/night chat is "I am blackmailed". Blackmailed targets cannot vote, and a Mayor cannot reveal himself while blackmailed.
Janitor - Cleans his victim's role, while another outlaw is doing the killings. Janitor can clean roles up to 3 times.
Disguiser - Once per game, Disguiser can kill his victim and steal his identity. Note the Disguiser does not inherit his victim's night chat. You cannot make a disguise kill and a normal Outlaw kill at the same night.
Kidnapper - Each night can detain one person in jail. Can target teammates. The jailed person is immune to night kills and will be locked out of any possible night chats. Kidnapper can execute his target, but only if no lynch occured on the last day. Maximum of 1 execution. Kidnapper can use his execution separately from Outlaw kill.

Rebel roles:

Rebel Leader - Can recruit a Citizen or Town Power role in ranks of a Rebel team. While he is alive, he can also send his recruits instead.
Scout - Can check his target for being a recruitable Citizen or not.
Lookout - Can watch his target learning the names of anyone who visit then. Cannot watch self.
Enchantress - Can go on alert up to 2 times. Anyone who visits Enchantress while she is on alert becomes roleblocked.
Rebel - Citizen becomes Rebels after being recruited. Power roles keep their previous abilities upon accepting.

Town roles:

Mayor - Can reveal himself to town. If he does, his voting power becomes equal to 2 votes. Mayor cannot be converted to Rebels.
Doctor - Can heal his target each night. Doctor becomes Rebel Medic if he decides to join the Rebels.
Escort - Can roleblock his target, preventing him from acting.
Armorsmith - Can give 1-use armor to target player. Armorsmith cannot give armor to Rebels if he decides to join then.
Journalist - Can interview one player each night. The article will be posted at the beginning of the each day.
Crier - Can post an article from himself each night. Crier's speech is similar to Journalist's article.

Once again, any feedback is appreciated! Order of Operations will come out soon.

[BorkBot]

Order of Operations and Rules sections necessary. Please combine all in the first post (including rolecards) for easy reference. Use spoilers if you like to keep the post size manageable.

Please clarify which events give night feedback. Either in a separate section or inside rolecards.

Can only the original 2 rebels use the conversion power normally? Recruits can't be sent to convert once the rebel leader is dead?

If the answer to the question above is yes, recommend making the Rebel Leader undetectable to the cops' sheriff check.


Medic - A Doctor for Rebel team. Any Citizen who is succesfully healed by Medic join the Rebels automatically. Town Power roles will still have to make their own choice.
Town PR's should be join or stay dead. Otherwise this role is too counterproductive overall.

Fix original post hidden roles names to match the ones int he rolecards. i.e. Witch Doctor => Medic

If the spy gets recruited by the rebels, does he see their true identities or does he see only anonymous night accounts?

Can witch/enchantress control gunsmith guns? What about jailor executions?

Architect, Jailor, Kidnapper.. which role takes precedence over which? Can a player be in multiple of these chats at once?

Confirm the Mayor for the town so their voting majority at the start is guaranteed, imo. (I think there was going to be one anyway)

Can the mayor be healed?

[Fragos]

Alright, thanks for those questions, BorkBot. I'll answer those issues when I have availible time. Also, I think I will make Ventriloquist a possible hidden role. It's not good after all to give that ability to the entire Trickster team.

[Fragos]

Can only the original 2 rebels use the conversion power normally? Recruits can't be sent to convert once the rebel leader is dead?
Precisely, yes. So be careful and keep your identities hidden if possible unless you are sure that Town will protect you. You know why Rebel team lost in FM XVII, right?

If the answer to the question above is yes, recommend making the Rebel Leader undetectable to the cops' sheriff check.
I alrady made Big Boss undetectable, so there is no point of giving detection immunity to Rebel Leader.

If the spy gets recruited by the rebels, does he see their true identities or does he see only anonymous night accounts?
He will learn their true identities. Spy can't kill, but he can send PM to Enforcers for example to give out all the names of Rebel team.

Can witch/enchantress control gunsmith guns? What about jailor executions?
Witch CAN control gunsmith guns. Enchantress is like Veteran except the she roleblocks instead of killing someone. Giving an extra gun to jailor will not give him extra execution.

Jailor, Kidnapper.. which role takes precedence over which? Can a player be in multiple of these chats at once?
It is possible for a single person to be targeted by Jailor and Kidnapper at the same time. All three of then will see the same chat, so the results will be... hillarious.

Confirm the Mayor for the town so their voting majority at the start is guaranteed, imo.
I can't confirm roles like that in the game right now.

Can the mayor be healed?
If he revealed himself already, then the answer is no. But he can still use armor and Bodyguard's protection will still work.

[Fragos]

Alright, most of the work has been finished. Medic and Architect were removed, and Ventriloqust has been moved to Hidden role cards. Some factions has been renamed.

Anonter interesting fact that once game starts, you can choose to give your faction team a new name (without giving out hints about your identities, of course). The game will start with Night 0, following by Day 1 with the lynch being availible immediately.

[TheDarkestLight]

Hmm, I wonder if the purple team will try to manipulate the other non-town teams into working with them again...

[Fragos]

They will certainly do, but the main difference from FM XVII is that that cannot kill anyone directly. They will need the help of red/blue team to deal with town and rebels.

[TheDarkestLight]

They will certainly do, but the main difference from FM XVII is that that cannot kill anyone directly. They will need the help of red/blue team to deal with town and rebels.

The problem is is that it didn't work out, even with their own kill, and control of the red kill. I should know, I was part of it...
-Then again I blame the red for killing the blues when we could have gotten a majority if they killed a town...-

[Cryptonic]

Bodyguard immune to Veteran & Enchantress?
Bodyguard can't be Witched?
Can Spy's messages be blocked? Redirected? In any case, it needs to be on OoO.
What's the difference between "Disguises take effect" and "Disguiser cleaning" on OoO?
Can people hold multiple guns/vests? If so, can people use multiple items along side their night action?

Please add the information you posted above to the Mayor rolecard.
And I also think that Rebel Leader should be immune to Detection. Big Boss being undetectable is just more reason imo.

[Fragos]

But Rebel Leader is not a "bad guy" in the general terms of gameplay! The Rebels can win with town. The Enforcers will have a hard time lynching then at day while Outlaws are still alive. They are supposed to lynch Outlaws at day and kill Rebels at night if possible. You should understand the game balance that I tried to create.

[TheDarkestLight]

imb4 solo town win on the way...

[ika]

But Rebel Leader is not a "bad guy" in the general terms of gameplay! The Rebels can win with town. The Enforcers will have a hard time lynching then at day while Outlaws are still alive. They are supposed to lynch Outlaws at day and kill Rebels at night if possible. You should understand the game balance that I tried to create.

well then how do they deal with them when they run out of shots?

and exactly what TDL said

inb4 town solos it

[TheDarkestLight]

Could there be a rule against videos? I personally despised that video conflict in the FM...

[ika]

Could there be a rule against videos? I personally despised that video conflict in the FM...

awwww but i had fun with that

[Fragos]

imb4 solo town win on the way...

That is even more difficult to accomplish. In FM XVII the town had about 50% of remaining players total, and faction numbers were going down faster than usual. But in a smaller scaled game like that, no faction can win on its own, Town included. Yeah, the core mechanic of Five-Sided Town games is teamwork - nothing more, nothing less. And teamwork does not only mean "inside" your faction, but also possible outside allies as well.

If Town need to lynch an Outlaw, they will have to team up with Enforcers for that, and the other factions will also throw their votes in as well, just to keep the low profile. Your math skills can also help you. Crocodile tried to use his "math" skills to outvote town and failed when he did not take dead Ventriloquist in account - but his general strategy was right. Whoever can control the 50% majority controls pretty much most of the game.

[Cryptonic]

But Rebel Leader is not a "bad guy" in the general terms of gameplay! The Rebels can win with town. The Enforcers will have a hard time lynching then at day while Outlaws are still alive. They are supposed to lynch Outlaws at day and kill Rebels at night if possible. You should understand the game balance that I tried to create.

The Rebel Leader IS a bad guy to the faction that does the checking. Rebels can't win with Enforcers, and Enforcers are the one with the Sheriff. Therefore, the Enforcers are trying to eliminate them and they deserve to have their leader immune to their detection.

[Fragos]

You need to understand that Rebels can ask Town Power roles like Doctor for protection. So even is Rebel Leader is out in the open, then an long as there are Town PRs than can protect him, the Police will have to find a workaround in order to deal with Rebels and possibly shift their attention to Outlaws. I can make Town Power roles 100% recruitable (except for Mayor), but I will not give Rebel Leader detection immunity under any circumstances.

[Cryptonic]

You need to understand that Rebels can ask Town Power roles like Doctor for protection. So even is Rebel Leader is out in the open, then an long as there are Town PRs than can protect him, the Police will have to find a workaround in order to deal with Rebels and possibly shift their attention to Outlaws. I can make Town Power roles 100% recruitable (except for Mayor), but I will not give Rebel Leader detection immunity under any circumstances.

It's your game, just giving you my opinion.

[Slaol]

Step 1: have enchantress / recruit citizen
Step 2: have person from step 1 claim rebels and ask a non-doctor power role to claim
Step 3: have doctor protect non-doctor while it is recruited
Step 4: repeat from step 3 until rebels win

[ika]

Step 1: have enchantress / recruit citizen
Step 2: have person from step 1 claim rebels and ask a non-doctor power role to claim
Step 3: have doctor protect non-doctor while it is recruited
Step 4: repeat from step 3 until rebels win

in b4 enchantress says im enchant all pr vist me

[Cryptonic]

I'm more concerned with the Enforcers wiping out the Rebel Leader early on and preventing the Rebels from spreading which destroys the balance and any chance that the Rebel have.

[Fragos]

But only I know which roles will be actually in game and which are not. So your "mind game" will only work if those roles will be actually in game. I can choose not to include Doctor and place Armorsmith instead, for example.

[ika]

But only I know which roles will be actually in game and which are not. So your "mind game" will only work if those roles will be actually in game. I can choose not to include Doctor and place Armorsmith instead, for example.

then they say "oh person x is a rebel he should be getting all the vest becasue he can talk for our rebels rebels can contiune to use that while doing it"

[Fragos]

Anyway, it's good to have heated talk, but don't get too excited yet. This game needs to win the next M-FM poll first. But even if I don't win the current poll, I'll simply place it on the next poll, just like you guys with M-FM Community did.

[BorkBot]

Precisely, yes. So be careful and keep your identities hidden if possible unless you are sure that Town will protect you. You know why Rebel team lost in FM XVII, right?

To be honest, the only reason the rebels ever really had a chance in FM XVII was because the purple team killed half of the blue team by day 2 and some of the town lost faith in blue. The town will not spend resources on protecting the rebels from kills that might be caused by blue, their potential allies, because they don't want to get in blue's way. Hence the doctor healing the sheriff and not either of the claimed rebels. And the rebels can never receive any tools to deal with any of the other factions at night, so they're at a pretty big disadvantage if you ask me.


Original post still needs rules listed.

Does the spy actually lose night chat with his own team if he is recruited?

Is the spy private message anonymous?

Where is use of armoursmith vests on the OoO?

Jailor/Kidnapper does not state target is roleblocked. Is this correct?

Can a bus driver/gunsmith combination actually allow the tricksters to give themselves guns at night by swapping one of their own members?


Doctor - Can heal his target each night. Doctor becomes Rebel Medic if he decides to join the Rebels.
Rebel medic was removed?




Bodyguard Protects
Veteran/Enchantress Alert
Witch Controls
Escort / Consort Blocks
Lookout / Detective Actions
Bus Driving


Are all actions above bus driving unaffected by bus driving misdirection?

Also please answer Cryptonic's questions. They are all important things that need to be cleared up.

[Fragos]

Well, I'll think about it. If the disadvantage could be that much of a problem, then we can increase the number of starting rebels to 3, but at the same time disallow then to recruit Town Power roles. Is that fine with you? Now onwards to answering the questions.

Bodyguard immune to Veteran & Enchantress?
Bodyguard and Veteran are role cards of the same team, so Veteran will not kill Bodyguard. If Bodyguard visits Enchantress on alert, he will be simply roleblocked... by why would Enforcer Bodyguard protect someone like Rebel Enchantress?

Bodyguard can't be Witched?
Bodyguard can be witched. Useful if you want to force the Enforcer team to "protect" you.

Can Spy's messages be blocked? Redirected?
Spy's messages works pretty much like mail mechanic in Cops and Robbers, except that Spy is the only one who can use then. You don't need to worry about misdirection, because Tricksters are the only source of it. Spy can be roleblocked at night, but if he'll sends his message during the day, it will go through. More importanlty, he can send his message at day to one of his teammates to put him on the right course. The limit of one message per day/night still applies.

What's the difference between "Disguises take effect" and "Disguiser cleaning" on OoO?
No differences. I'll fix it out in Order of Operations soon.

Can people hold multiple guns/vests? If so, can people use multiple items along side their night action?
Vests can be used together with any other actions, but guns must be used separately.

Does the spy actually lose night chat with his own team if he is recruited?
No, he retains his access to Trickster night chat. But even in case if he would lose that access, he can still send PMs to his team to let then know who the Rebels are.

Is the spy private message anonymous?
Yes, it is anonymous.

Where is use of armoursmith vests on the OoO?
They should be on the same priority as the doctor heals.

Jailor/Kidnapper does not state target is roleblocked. Is this correct?
I forgot to mention it, but jailed target DOES becomes roleblocked during the night. I'll fix this in the role cards.

Can a bus driver/gunsmith combination actually allow the tricksters to give themselves guns at night by swapping one of their own members?
No. Because Tricksters are the only ones who can cause misdirection and know about it, they cannot receive any guns from Gunsmith that way. Not from Witch, and certainly not from Bus Driver. They need to give their guns to someone else. But they can control the gunner later.

Rebel medic was removed?
Yes, it was removed.

Are all actions above bus driving unaffected by bus driving misdirection?
Only if they target Bus Driver specifically (like Witch, Escort/Consort). Veteran will kill the Bus driver, but misdirection will still occur; Enchatrell will roleblock the Bus driver if he targets her.

[Cryptonic]

Bodyguard immune to Veteran & Enchantress?
Bodyguard and Veteran are role cards of the same team, so Veteran will not kill Bodyguard. If Bodyguard visits Enchantress on alert, he will be simply roleblocked... by why would Enforcer Bodyguard protect someone like Rebel Enchantress?
Then it needs to be after Veteran and Enchantress in OoO.

Bodyguard can't be Witched?
Bodyguard can be witched. Useful if you want to force the Enforcer team to "protect" you.
BG also needs to be after Witching.

Can people hold multiple guns/vests?
Vests can be used together with any other actions, but guns must be used separately.
Not fully answered.

[Cryptonic]

Can Witch & Bodyguard be roleblocked? Cause they're also before roleblocking on the Order of Operations.

[BorkBot]

Well, I'll think about it. If the disadvantage could be that much of a problem, then we can increase the number of starting rebels to 3, but at the same time disallow then to recruit Town Power roles. Is that fine with you? Now onwards to answering the questions.
I just think the rebels are at a significant disadvantage compared to the enforcers, because the enforcers' roles provide utility that the town is lacking and the rebels don't.

On top of that, the enforcers have the means to find and kill the rebels, while the rebels don't have the means to find, let alone kill the enforcers, or even to communicate with the outlaws to do it for them. Removing their ability to recruit power roles would just make it worse. Removing the town PR's ability to deny recruitment or making the rebel leader undetectable to the sheriff would make it better.

That's the last I'll say on that subject.


Something that's less debatable is that your Order of Operations needs work. An OoO is supposed to clarify what actions affect each other.

The BG's position is wrong because it doesn't affect any of these actions:



Veteran/Enchantress Alert
Witch Controls
Escort / Consort Blocks
Lookout / Detective Actions
Bus Driving


Yet all of those actions affect the bodyguard. So Bodyguard should be under them.

It's also not clear from this OoO that bus driving affects targets from roles above it on the OoO, whether or not lookout/detective can see what the roles above them are doing (especially veteran), if a witch can be blocked by escort/consort, and if an escort/consort can stop a veteran from killing. The framer also goes after detective/lookout, yet the framer rolecard says it's supposed to affect their information.

For some tips about making an OoO, you can read the OoO section in this post: http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/4234-Setup-Requirements-%28Read-this-before-posting%29

This is not meant as nitpicking. We are trying to make all hosts apply the same standards and logic to their OoO's, so just looking at them will make it clear what will happen under which circumstances. If every host uses his own logic, an OoO won't be helpful and players will still have to ask what happens in every scenario.

[Fragos]

In just a few days, I will be away for a week. However, I made some changes in the Rebel team and made that so they start with 3 members, just like other factions. However, they still cannot recruit more than 4 Town roles, and they will be unable to recruit more than 1 Town Power role.

And yes, the Witch and Bodyguard can be roleblocked, but a Trickster can force Escort/Consort to roleblock someone else in order to prevent himself to be roleblocked.

[Fragos]

Alright, we'll see each other in a week! Good luck in FM XVIII!

[BorkBot]

Have a good trip.

For when you get back: we do not only request answering our questions about the OoO, we're kind of hoping you'll update the OoO so it instantly makes sense when people read it. To do that, the order should change slightly and some exceptions have to be noted in some places (redirection and roleblocks usually). Examples have already been given above.

If you need help with the exact formulation of the OoO, let us know so we can show you how to structure it correctly according to the standardised "rules" we'd like to use, while still letting it do exactly what you want it to do.

[Fragos]

Guess who is back now!

[ypmagic]

Nice timing. I think BorkBot has been inactive for four days or something like that now. /presign if possible but i don't want to get infracted slaol/bunny/damus

[Cryptonic]

Nice timing. I think BorkBot has been inactive for four days or something like that now. /presign if possible but i don't want to get infracted slaol/bunny/damus

b&

[Fragos]

I'm going to pick off a little experiment of my own.

Normally I already have a list of the M-FM names that are going to be used in Gates to Infinity, but in this experiment I will give you a chance to pick an FM account name of your own (while sticking to a Pokemon theme). The reason that I'm trying to do this is that because during M-FM Nasty Rumours Brendan asked me to give him Bidoof account, but he was given a different account and was not happy with it (even when another player with Bidoof account was already in his team).

Pick up your favorite Pokemon name that you would like to use in Gates to Infinity M-FM. If you think that your favorite Pokemon name would be the same as another person, you can also pick up your secondary favorite choice (and tertiary if you want). There are about 649 Pokemon names total, so I doubt that there would be any conflicts. Once you pick up your favorite name, then there will be a chance that the chosen name could be used by you as your game account when this game starts. You can do this before even the sign-ups begin. Make sure that you send your choice to me via PM and not post it somewhere in the forum - we are going to use anonymous accounts, after all.

Even if this game will not start immediately after FM XVIII or gets suspended, this experiment will still be interesting to watch! And of course, people that agree to participate in the experiment will have higher priorities to join this game before it starts! And don't worry about account creation process - when everyone will be ready, I'll ask Raptorblaze to create your chosen account names. We can even reuse some of the 20 names from Nasty Rumours if you decide to pick one.

So come and join my new experiment - even if you are not actually planning to play M-FM Gates to Infinity!

[ypmagic]

I'm going to pick off a little experiment of my own.

Normally I already have a list of the M-FM names that are going to be used in Gates to Infinity, but in this experiment I will give you a chance to pick an FM account name of your own (while sticking to a Pokemon theme). The reason that I'm trying to do this is that because during M-FM Nasty Rumours Brendan asked me to give him Bidoof account, but he was given a different account and was not happy with it (even when another player with Bidoof account was already in his team).

Pick up your favorite Pokemon name that you would like to use in Gates to Infinity M-FM. If you think that your favorite Pokemon name would be the same as another person, you can also pick up your secondary favorite choice (and tertiary if you want). There are about 649 Pokemon names total, so I doubt that there would be any conflicts. Once you pick up your favorite name, then there will be a chance that the chosen name could be used by you as your game account when this game starts. You can do this before even the sign-ups begin. Make sure that you send your choice to me via PM and not post it somewhere in the forum - we are going to use anonymous accounts, after all.

Even if this game will not start immediately after FM XVIII or gets suspended, this experiment will still be interesting to watch! And of course, people that agree to participate in the experiment will have higher priorities to join this game before it starts! And don't worry about account creation process - when everyone will be ready, I'll ask Raptorblaze to create your chosen account names. We can even reuse some of the 20 names from Nasty Rumours if you decide to pick one.

So come and join my new experiment - even if you are not actually planning to play M-FM Gates to Infinity!

I dibs on Ho-oh

[Fragos]

I dibs on Ho-oh

Heh, so you chose to act openly, huh? So does that means when the game starts everyone will recognise M-FM Ho-Oh as you? Is that what you really want?

[ypmagic]

Like they're gonna know my role.

[Fragos]

Alright, I guess that the rest of you will get the idea. I have never seen ypmagic in FM games before, though. But I should tell you beforehand that SC2 Mafia uses anonymous names in each game, so it should be natural that forum games should also use anonymous names. Of course this rule does not affect the plethora of S-FMs that are currently still running on the forums. But keep in mind - when you are in game it is best for you to act like a different person.

Anyway, the experiment has only just started, and I have not received any PMs yet (not even from ypmagic, so I guess his choice is set up). Pick a Pokemon account name that would be used in M-FM Gates to Infinity later!

[BorkBot]

so it should be natural that forum games should also use anonymous names.
It's not up to you to decide that.

Are you going to fix your OoO?

[Damus_Graves]

Alright, I guess that the rest of you will get the idea. I have never seen ypmagic in FM games before, though. But I should tell you beforehand that SC2 Mafia uses anonymous names in each game, so it should be natural that forum games should also use anonymous names. Of course this rule does not affect the plethora of S-FMs that are currently still running on the forums. But keep in mind - when you are in game it is best for you to act like a different person.

Anyway, the experiment has only just started, and I have not received any PMs yet (not even from ypmagic, so I guess his choice is set up). Pick a Pokemon account name that would be used in M-FM Gates to Infinity later!

Because I didn't send you an image of the pokemon I choose
-_-


It's not up to you to decide that.

Are you going to fix your OoO?

Hi borkbot. :3

[Slaol]

I want Gatomon.

[Fragos]

I decided to remove Spy from the role list and instead add another intersting role, the Corrupt Mayor.

He can reveal himself to town as "Mayor", giving Trisksters extra voting power. Town, Outalws and Rebels will be in an irky situation, but it is important to note that both variants of Mayor can win with Enforcers, making cooperation with then more profitable for Tricksters.

[Cryptonic]

Is there a limit to how many vests/guns a player can hold at any given time? Like... can I be holding 3 guns after the Blacksmith dies?

[BorkBot]

I decided to remove Spy from the role list and instead add another intersting role, the Corrupt Mayor.

He can reveal himself to town as "Mayor", giving Trisksters extra voting power. Town, Outalws and Rebels will be in an irky situation, but it is important to note that both variants of Mayor can win with Enforcers, making cooperation with then more profitable for Tricksters.

It's mechanically impossible to have both a corrupt mayor and a mayor if you use the vote tag system. Just so you know.

[Fragos]

It's mechanically impossible to have both a corrupt mayor and a mayor if you use the vote tag system. Just so you know.

I know that already. Either there will be a Town Mayor, a Corrupt Mayor, or no Mayor at all. Why I would put there 2 Mayors anyway?

[Cryptonic]

I've asked it 3 times, man. Are you just ignoring me?

[Fragos]

Whoops, sorry, have not noticed yet. There is no limit on that, however roleblocks will prevent the player from using any vests or guns.

[Fragos]

Now submitted for M-FM XIX poll. Feel free to ask more questions.

[ypmagic]

Now submitted for M-FM XIX poll. Feel free to ask more questions.

Yeah. Gods of Olympus or you want to host that ElectroManiac and Arsonists vs Town together?

[Fragos]

Like CmG said, your setup is a bit difficult to read. So you need to make your setup for others (including me) easier to understand.

I know that you wanted to show a good RP, but you won't get enough support from other people if your game is difficult to understand. So right now I'm not considering your offer. It will depend on votes of those who can support you.

[Fragos]

As you may have noticed, I'm looking for a reliable person who can co-host this game together with me in the future. Send a Private Message to me if you are intereted.

[Fragos]

Don't forget the the primary attractive option of this setup is that you can choose your FM name by yourself! Just make sure that your name will be anonymous to everyone.

Normally I already have a list of the M-FM names that are going to be used in Gates to Infinity, but if this game become voted as next M-FM I will give you a chance to pick an FM account name of your own (while sticking to a Pokemon theme).

Pick up your favorite Pokemon name that you would like to use in Gates to Infinity M-FM. If you think that your account name would be the same as another person, you can also pick up your secondary favorite choice (and tertiary if you want). There are about 649 Pokemon names total (plus even more from X and Y), so I doubt that there would be any conflicts. Once you pick up your favorite name, then the chosen name will be used by you as your game account when this game starts. Make sure that you send your choice to me via PM and not post it somewhere in the forum - we are going to use anonymous accounts, after all. You can even sign up yourself anonymously if you want.

Don't worry about account creation process - when everyone is ready, I'll ask Raptorblaze or any other admin to create your chosen account names. We can even reuse some of the 20 names from Nasty Rumours if you decide to pick one.