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Fragos
January 1st, 2013, 11:53 AM
Hello, agains, guys and gals! This time i'll be presenting to you another interesting concept! The new game that is going to appear in the next M-FM Poll will be Mists of Pandaria!

In this game, you will take the role of the native Pandaren of the peaceful Pandaria. The game setting will be in the Dawn's Blossom, a peaceful town in the center of the Jade Forest. But peace stopped lasting when Alliance and Horde stormed into Pandaria. Even more, some of the native Pandaren have already sided with one of the warring factions. The Tushui Pandaren joined the Alliance, while the Hyojin Pandaren jonied the Horde. Now Tushui and Huojin and already starting their preparations for the battle behind the scenes of Dawn's Blossom. Both factions, along with the rest of town members are unaware that deep withing the land, a manifectation of evil entites, Sha, were sealed by the emperor Shaohao. Now that the war has appeared on the shores of the Jade Forest, the Sha are on the verge of manifesting thenselves in the world. They are the physical manifestations of negative emotions like doubt, fear, hatred, anger, despair and violence. Only by controlling the harmony within oneself the Pandaren can withstand and defeat the Sha.

Initial starting role list:

Tushui General
Tushui
Tushui
Tushui
Huojin General
Huojin
Huojin
Huojin
Monk
Town Peacekeeper
Town Peacekeeper
Town Peacekeeper
Town Peacekeeper
Town Peacekeeper
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Sha-turned Citizen

Both Tushui and Huojin have the shared night chat. Win Conditions:
Tushui: Eliminate all Huojin members and suppress the Sha
Huojin: Eliminate all Tushui members and suppress the Sha
Town: Suppress the Sha and side with either Tushui or Huojin to end the war
Sha: Kill all non-Sha players in order to win

Here is the preliminary role list. When a player is transformed in the Sha, his role is replaced with role of Sha below. When Sha dies, players will see both his original role and the entity that has been manifested (example: Player Z (Sha of Fear, former Doctor)

Town roles:

Exorcist - Similar to Sheriff, the Exorcist can detect Sha, Unlike Monk, Exorcist is NOT immune to Sha possession.
Monk - Immune to Sha possession. Can use Purifying Ward to prevent someone to be possessed by Sha.
Doctor - Can heal a player to prevent him from being killed.
Cart Driver - Can switch two players with each other, redirecting night actions.
Jailor - Can jail every night, and execute if there was no lynch. You have 2 executions.
Mayor - Can reveal himself to the town. If he does, his voting power becomes equal to 3 votes. Cannot reveal if transformed in the Sha, and keeps his vote power if he transorms after revealing himself as Mayor.
Mason - Can convert a Citizen into Mason. Does not prevent Sha tranformation, but will prevent the Recruiter to turn his target into a Recruit.
Lookout - Can watch his target to see the names of those who visited them.
Journalist - Can ask his target for article at the beginning of night. The article will be posted at the end of night.
Citizen - Has no abilites, but can be recruited or possessed by Sha.

Tushui/Huojin roles:

General - Cannot be killed at night normally. Can be only lynched, executed by Jailor or killed by Sha of Violence. With strong will, General can only be possessed by Sha of Violence. Once per game, can attack one player in attempt to kill him. While General is attacking, no other team member can make a night action on the same night.
Scout - Can detect members of opposing faction. Town players will show up as not suspicious.
Escort - Can roleblock his target, preventing him from acting.
Recruiter - Can recruit a Citizen into the ranks of your team. You can only recruit up to 2 Citizens per game. If you try to visit a member of opposing faction, they will learn your identity.
Hunter - Can watch his target to see whom he visited.
Bodyguard - Can protect his target from being killed at night, risking his life in the process. Bodyguard can be healed.
Soldier - Can kill his target during the night. Soldier can attack only 2 times in the game.
Veteran - Has 2 alerts. Will kill anyone who tries to visit him while he is on alert.
Recruit - Has no abilites, but can be possessed by Sha.

Finally I will introduce to you Sha roles. Each of then is based on a certain Mafia/scum role. Like Mafia, they can use a killing action.

Sha of Anger (Witch) - Controls his target to visit another target.
Sha of Despair (Consort) - Roleblock his target, preventing him from acting.
Sha of Doubt (Framer) - Frames a player othen than itself. Exorcist will see a non-Sha player as "Sha" and vice-versa. Scout will see a town player as member of opposing faction and vice-versa. Detective and Lookout will see a false report.
Sha of Fear (Blackmailer) - Prevent his target from talking during the day. Will not cause your target to transform into the Sha of Despair.
Sha of Hatred (Cultist) - Converts target player into the random Sha that has not been awakened yet. Will not increase the rate of Sha awakening by more then 2, but will always increase the Sha number by at least 1 if Sha of Hatred's action did not miss. Sha of Hatred cannot convert anyone if there are already 6 Sha active. A General who is the target of Sha of Hatred will turn into Sha of Violence if it is not active, otherwise nothing happens.
Sha of Violence (Serial Killer) - Cannot be killed at night. Will kill roleblockers (including Jailor if Sha is not executed).

Special Mechanics: Sha Possession

The Sha feed on negative emotions. One player always starts the game as Sha. Every night, up to 2 other Sha manifest thenselves in the physical word by possesing Pandaren that have showed their negative emotions during the day. Night chats are not affected by this. All active Sha share the anonymous night chat and can kill one player each night (similar to Mafia). Any Pandaren (except for Monk and his target) can be possessed by Sha, inculding Tushui/Hyojin members. Maximum of 6 Sha can be active during the game. It is possible for other 5 Sha to not manifest at all, if all players can control their emotions well. At the end of each night, the Game Master will tell you how many Sha are currently active.

You might think that players can even win without awakening the other 5 Sha at all once either Tushui/Hyoijin are eliminated, but this will be very difficult, as faction members are much more likely to turn in the Sha than town members are, and the active Sha will try to provoke town members into unleashing their negative emotions. A Pandaren the has became the Sha will turn into an enemy of town and need to be killed immediately. However, since players can turn into Sha by unleashing their negative emotions, they can be easily detected by town afterwards. Because of that, voluntarily using your negative emotions is not recommended, as even then there will be no guarantee that you can turn into Sha (considering the Monk's presence as well), but it will surely increase the chance that you will be lynched by town, so always keep your emotions in check! Yeah, even though Monk is immune to Sha possession, this doesn't mean that he can lose control of his emotions!

The Sha transfosmation always occurs at the end of night, except when a Town member is lynched at day. In that case, Sha of Violence will always possess a random player (if it is not already active). A maximim of 2 Sha can be manifested at end of night by the criteria below. Sha of Violence has a higher priority of manifesting at end of night that other Sha entities. All other Sha will mainfest thenselves in random order, giving that condition for their awakening can apply. For example, you can have Sha of Doubt and Sha of Anger to be mainfested even if there was one person with less than 5 posts that could turn into Sha of Despair after the last day. Try to suppress the easier ones (Fear, Hatred, Anger) and suddenly you will get much less problems to handle.

Here is the list of Sha entities and how they can manifest:

Sha of Anger - possess someone that is expressing anger in their posts.
Method of Suppression: Do not show your anger to or towards other people in your posts during the day, and you will be fine.

Sha of Despair - possess someone that is expressing apathy or despair in their posts, or is not active at day or showing the interest in the game.
Method of Suppression: Be active! Post as much as you can! 5 posts is the bare minimun for you to be active. And do not show your despair or apathy during the day as well, or you risk turning in the Sha as well. Try to be optimistic!

Sha of Doubt - possess someone that is expressing too much doubt, or skipped his night action without posting "skip" to Game Master.
Method of Suppression: Don't forget to submit your night action, even if it is just skipping! Citizens and other roles without night actions are not affected by this, but they can still turn into Sha of Doubt if they express too much doubting thoughts towards other players.

Sha of Fear - possess someone that is expressing fear in their posts.
Method of Suppression: Do not show up your fear during the game. This may look simple for you, but keep in mind that this is one of 6 Sha that must be suppressed. If players can manage to suppress at least Sha of Fear, they can be fine even with 5 other Sha being active.

Sha of Hatred - possess someone that is expressing hatred in their posts.
Method of Suppression: Don't hate your enemies! This may be diffucult for you, but at least try to replace your hatred toward then into a different kind of emotion (like respect for example)

Sha of Violence - possess someone when a Town role is killed by non-Sha roles or is lynched at day. Will possess one of the killer's faction members (including killer himself). If Town member is lynched, Sha of Violence will possess a random player at end of day. Is the only Sha that can possibly possess faction General.
Method of Suppresion: This Sha is the biggest concern of Tushui/Hyojin members. If you kill a Town member you will only create more problems for you. Only kill players that could be members of opposing faction or manifestations of Sha. Same thing applies to the Town. A Sha that is emerged after bad lynch will be diffucult to find afterwards.

RLVG
January 1st, 2013, 12:25 PM
This looks fun and interesting, however I feel there should be a Sha connected to Dominance / Arrogance to fill it all out.

BorkBot
January 1st, 2013, 02:12 PM
I'm not sure what the difference between despair, fear and the day chat variant of the sha of doubt is.

If you express you're afraid the town will lose if X and Y happens, doesn't that basically cover all 3?

Fragos
January 1st, 2013, 11:30 PM
This looks fun and interesting, however I feel there should be a Sha connected to Dominance / Arrogance to fill it all out.

Yeah, I might change the existing Sha's awakening mechanics later. But first, can you remind me what are the typical negative emotions and behaviors of Mafia players? For example, I might rename one of the entities into the Sha of Trolling.

Just kidding.

Gingerape
January 1st, 2013, 11:43 PM
What if I show all of these aspects and a town gets lynched during the day, can I become all 6 entities and become a destroyer?

Fragos
January 1st, 2013, 11:47 PM
I'm not sure what the difference between despair, fear and the day chat variant of the sha of doubt is.

If you express you're afraid the town will lose if X and Y happens, doesn't that basically cover all 3?

I can show you at least the difference between two of then and doubt. Doubt is when you are doubting someone. For example, you doubt that Player A is the doctor. If you become focused on your such doubts too much, you risk turning yourself into the Sha. This might happen even if your target is not actually doctor; if you became too clouded in your thoughts about Player A's role you will probably transform. To counter this, you should replace your doubt with something like "belief" or "conviction".

Sha of Despair is different from Fear because of inaction mechanics. Sha of Despair will more likely awaken from player inactivity rather than despair talk. Sha of Fear do not have such mechanics and is intentionally the easiest Sha to suppress. A typical fear is the fear of being lynched or killed at night. If you express such a fear to the town or your teammates, at night, then you are a valid target for turning into the Sha of Fear.

I once again remind you that night chats are also affected can can be used as prerequisites for Sha transformation. Because of that, Tushui/Hyojin are much more vulnerable to then than town players. Even more, town players will have a harder time finding Sha among then if the awakening occured because of bad talk during the night chat. On the other hand, the faction that is already losing the battle against rivals will be much more likely to succumb to Sha.

After one of the factions is defeated, the game will end if enough Sha become defeated or suprresed. For example, if Fear was never awakened, players will win if they manage to kill other 5 active Sha after dealing with warring factions.

Fragos
January 1st, 2013, 11:50 PM
What if I show all of these aspects and a town gets lynched during the day, can I become all 6 entities and become a destroyer?

Nope, you will only turn into one of the 6 Sha, given the criteria above. But then you will probably end up being lynched afterwards.

It should be also known that if you kill a player who is about to transfrom into the Sha (at end of night), he will show up in the graveyard as being possessed by Sha. So Sha of Violence will not awaken even if a town role was killed that way.

AppleyNO
January 2nd, 2013, 12:01 AM
What is the difference between Anger and Hatred?

Nick
January 2nd, 2013, 12:02 AM
Anger and hatred a bit similar.

clementine
January 2nd, 2013, 12:04 AM
I don't really like how the town can decide to side with either the red or the blue faction. To me, it seems almost as if you made them into a town of survivors. For balance reasons and to give the green faction a better win condition, it might make more sense to make them eliminate the red and blue factions instead of just one of them.

Fragos
January 2nd, 2013, 12:22 AM
Heh. Do you know who is the greatest enemy in Mists of Pandaria?

You yourself. If you are unable to contain your emotions, you will transform in the Sha and will most likely be killed by town if you are found immediately.

However remember that only 2 players at once can transform in the Sha an the end of each night. If you lynch a town player who you think could be transformed in the Sha, you could get another problem in the form of Sha of Violence. So try to lynch only members of warring factions or transformed Sha. Speaking of which, here is another helpful town role:

Exorcist - Similar to Sheriff, the Exorcist can detect Sha, even those who are about to transform.

Unlike Monk, Exorcist is NOT immune to Sha possession. So do the other town power roles. That's why it is so improtant to maintain your inner harmony. You understand now? Your own victory depends not on killing/lynching the Sha thenselves, but on keeping your own "sha" inside you. The land of Pandaria is alive, and you negative emotions can take a physical shape here.

Nick
January 2nd, 2013, 12:25 AM
I'll act inactive, angry and dumb. Power to me!

My goal is to become the Sha of Six-Paths.


Intentionally get possessed to gain additional kill. Or gain night actions as citizens!

Fragos
January 2nd, 2013, 12:30 AM
Like usual, I intend to use the anonymous acccounts in this game. So no COM hunting!

Slaol
January 2nd, 2013, 12:40 AM
This looks fun and interesting, however I feel there should be a Sha connected to Dominance / Arrogance to fill it all out.

Slaol supports Sha of Arrogance.

Fragos
January 2nd, 2013, 01:05 AM
Ok, here is the preliminary role list. When a player is transformed in the Sha, his role is replaced with role of Sha below. When Sha dies, players will see both his original role and the entity that has been manifested (example: Player Z (Sha of Fear, former Doctor)


Town roles:

Exorcist - Similar to Sheriff, the Exorcist can detect Sha, Unlike Monk, Exorcist is NOT immune to Sha possession.
Monk - Immune to Sha possession. Can use Purifying Ward to prevent someone to be possessed by Sha.
Doctor - Can heal a player to prevent him from being killed.
Cart Driver - Can switch two players with each other, redirecting night actions.
Jailor - Can jail every night, and execute if there was no lynch. You have 2 executions.
Mayor - Can reveal himself to the town. If he does, his voting power becomes equal to 3 votes. Cannot reveal if transformed in the Sha, and keeps his vote power if he transorms after revealing himself as Mayor.
Mason - Can convert a Citizen into Mason. Does not prevent Sha tranformation, but will prevent the Recruiter to turn his target into a Recruit.
Detective - Can watch his target to see whom he visited.
Journalist - Can ask his target for article at the beginning of night. The article will be posted at the end of night.
Citizen - Has no abilites, but can be recruited or possessed by Sha.

Tushui/Huojin roles:

General - Cannot be killed at night (unless possessed by Sha other than Violence), can be either lynched or executed by Jailor. If General is the last member of faction alive, he can kill one player every night.
Scout - Can detect members of opposing faction. Town players will show up as not suspicious.
Escort - Can roleblock his target, preventing him from acting.
Recruiter - Can recruit a Citizen into the ranks of your team. You can only recruit up to 2 Citizens per game. If you try to visit a member of opposing faction, they will learn your identity.
Lookout - Can watch his target to see the names of those who visited them.
Bodyguard - Can protect his target from being killed at night, risking his life in the process. Bodyguard can be healed.
Soldier - Can kill his target during the night. Soldier can attack only 2 times in the game.
Veteran - Has 2 alerts. Will kill anyone who tries to visit him while he is on alert.
Recruit - Has no abilites, but can be possessed by Sha.
Finally I will introduce to you Sha roles. Each of then is based on a certain Mafia/scum role. Like Mafia, they can use a killing action.

Sha of Anger (Witch) - Controls his target to visit another target.
Sha of Despair (Consort) - Roleblock his target, preventing him from acting.
Sha of Doubt (Framer) - Frames a player othen than itself. Exorcist will see a non-Sha player as "Sha" and vice-versa. Scout will see a town player as member of opposing faction and vice-versa. Detective and Lookout will see a false report.
Sha of Fear (Blackmailer) - Prevent his target from talking during the day. Will not cause your target to transform in the Sha of Despair.
Sha of Hatred (Cultist) - Converts target player into the random Sha that has not been awakened yet. Will not increase the rate of Sha awakening by more then 2, but will always increase the Sha number by at least 1 if Sha of Hatred's action did not miss. Sha of Hatred cannot convert anyone if there are already 6 Sha active.
Sha of Violence (Serial Killer) - Cannot be killed at night. Will kill roleblockers (including Jailor if Sha is not executed).

Nick
January 2nd, 2013, 01:36 AM
But first, can you remind me what are the typical negative emotions and behaviors of Mafia players?

I suppose you won't differentiate between real or faked emotions/actions?

Fragos
January 2nd, 2013, 03:12 AM
Well, it won't be only me who'll decide that. I'll pick up to 3 other guys (such as BorkBot, Yayap or Raptorblaze) to form the so-called "Sha Council" among the game observers and will take their thoughts in consideration. Do you remember how Yayap modkilled many players in current FM? We'll watch the day chat in similar way, but instead of modkilling bad players, we'll turn then into Sha and good players will have a chance to get rid of then for good during the game.

BorkBot
January 2nd, 2013, 10:00 AM
I suppose you won't differentiate between real or faked emotions/actions?

That doesn't seem possible. The host would have to guess what is fake or real. Because guesswork can be wrong, it wouldn't be fair to good pretenders. It's not like the host can ask people if they really meant something or not either, because they could just lie about that as well.

Fragos
January 2nd, 2013, 10:15 AM
Who said I was going to ask then? i'll evaluate their posts several times to check if they hold any negavite emotions. It's not like players would want to fake those emotions because:

1. I might cosider those emotions real and they will turn into Sha later
2. Other players will think that a person's "faked" negative emotion is real and they will start suspecting him as Sha later.

A Monk is immune to Sha possesion, but that doesn't mean he is safe from lynch/nightkill if he does not behave himself properly. Basically, think about yourself and what consequencies your actions can bring for you. Especially if you start the game as town.

Besides, if I ask you to join the "Sha Council", would you agree to my invitation, Bork?

BorkBot
January 2nd, 2013, 10:19 AM
Probably. Depends if I have enough time.

As for my answer to Nick's question, I was just saying it's not reasonable to assume the host will differentiate between real and fake emotions because it's not an "exact science" and the game mechanics themselves should be predictable, not rely on whatever the host believes or doesn't believe about what players are saying.

If someone fakes emotions he should be just as vulnerable to turning into a sha as someone whose emotions are legitimate.

Fragos
January 3rd, 2013, 05:15 AM
The following changes has been made in the game:

Night chat is no longer taken in the account when a player is possesed by Sha. Players only risk to be possessed by Sha if they show their negative emotions during the day chat.

Fragos
January 4th, 2013, 08:59 AM
So, do you have any other suggestions? Can I put this setup in the next M-FM poll?

BorkBot
January 5th, 2013, 08:38 PM
I may look at it more thoroughly when the time for submissions comes. The general idea is pretty interesting though.

Fragos
January 20th, 2013, 03:00 AM
While the time is still going on, I would like to accept any other suggestions. Your feedback is always helpful!

Fragos
January 21st, 2013, 05:21 AM
Changed the game setup slightly.

Now one Sha, randomly closen, will be active right at the beginning of the game. As "Original Sha", that player will most likely try to provoke other Pandaren into unleashing their negative emotions, making then easy victims for Sha possession. That player will show up as Sha-turned Citizen in the graveyard, sometimes making the town think that he was turned into the Sha during the course of the game. Fortunately, with that Sha active, players will get less conditions for Sha awakening.

For example, if the starting Sha is the Sha of Anger, players will not turn into Sha by venting their anger, because Anger is already active.

For balance reasons, the Sha night chat is now anonymous.

Nick
January 21st, 2013, 06:18 AM
Noo.... I can't provoke others anymore...

BorkBot
January 22nd, 2013, 03:42 PM
I require an order of operations and a rules section.

Do the Sha know each other's identities?

If a mayor is one of the last players alive, why would he not try to turn himself into a sha so he controls the day?

Is it true that listing one's suspicion of someone without certainty can turn them into the sha of doubt? How then is scumhunting done? Do you have to lie and pretend you're sure someone is scum?


With strong will, General can only be possessed by Sha of Violence.
Does this mean the general is immune to all other Sha possessions, or is the strong will an RP thing referring to proper avoidance strategies?

What happens if two recruiters visit the same citizen?

What happens if a recruiter and a mason visit the same citizen?

Fragos
January 23rd, 2013, 12:38 AM
I'll post the order of operation soon, but for now I'll answer your questions:

Do the Sha know each other's identities?
The Original Sha knows the identities of other players the have turned into Sha, but I will use anonymous night chat to avoid gamethrowing from newly-turned players. They can reveal their identities to each other if they want, I'm just using anonymous chat for Original Sha's safety.

If a mayor is one of the last players alive, why would he not try to turn himself into a sha so he controls the day?
By the time game manages to last this long, all 6 Sha most likely would be active or dead, so Mayor probably won't be able to willingly turn himself into the Sha. It's not easy because:
1. There might be still Monk alive.
2. The remaining players will not take any risks and try to lynch/kill Mayor at night.
It's really not worth it. Besides, you do realize what it the point of the game? If you are so worried about gamethrowing Mayor, I can assign Mayor rolecard to a trusted player or not include the Mayor at all.

Is it true that listing one's suspicion of someone without certainty can turn them into the sha of doubt? How then is scumhunting done? Do you have to lie and pretend you're sure someone is scum?
No, you don't have to go to such a great degree. Suspecting other players is ok. But if you keep doubting a player who truthfully claimed his real role or alignment, you will turn into Sha because of your own disbelief towards trusted player. If you doubt someone who is actually Sha or otherwise lying about his role or alignment, nothing will happen to you. Doubting certaing strategies and actions of town can also make you turn into Sha, but only if you are completely unsure what to do and unable pick up the strategy or action of your own.
Generally you need to be aware of power roles that did not submit their night actions - as a player can also turn in the Sha of Doubt if he missed his night action.

Does this mean the general is immune to all other Sha possessions, or is the strong will an RP thing referring to proper avoidance strategies?
Yeah, each general is immune to other Sha possesions and cannot be killed at night normally. This is important, as one of the factions needs to be completely eliminated in order for game to end. This is the reason why one of the can only be possessed by a single Sha of Violence - this will be a face-off game between the two generals. Let the best General win!

What happens if two recruiters visit the same citizen?
That citizen will be literally torn apart between the two recruiters. He will die, and Sha of Violence is bound to appear afterwards.
That is, unless that citizen is about to turn into Sha himself, in which case both actions will fail.

What happens if a recruiter and a mason visit the same citizen?
Mason recruits first, so his action will succed and Recruiter's action will fail.

Generally Recruiters need to be very careful with choosing their targets. They should pick up less obvious citizens and avoid those who openly claimed thenselves.

Fragos
January 23rd, 2013, 02:07 AM
Funally, here is the order of night actions. With this, Mists of Pandaria should be a finished setup.



Jailing
Journalist ask his target for interview
Night Chats Open
Bodyguard Protects / Veteran goen on alert
Sha of Anger Witching
Escort / Sha of Despair roleblocks
Lookout / Detective Actions
Cart Driving
Framing
Investigations
Killing Actions / Jailor Executes
Healing / Monk shielding
Sha of Fear blackmailing
Players turn in the Sha / Sha of Hatred conversion
Mason recruiting
Recruiter recruiting
Investigative roles receive feedback
Jailor Releases
The Journalist article is published

BorkBot
January 23rd, 2013, 06:08 PM
Do lookout/detective see blocks, witching, and bodyguard visits?

Does the bodyguard die to the veteran if he visits him? (this of course won't happen voluntarily, but a witch could make it happen)

Fragos
January 24th, 2013, 12:43 AM
Do lookout/detective see blocks, witching, and bodyguard visits?

Does the bodyguard die to the veteran if he visits him? (this of course won't happen voluntarily, but a witch could make it happen)

Yeah, bodyguard dies to the veteran. The Veteran is supposed to be immune during alert, and Bodyguard does not pierce immunity. The lookout/detective will only see Bodyguard protecting his target.

If target is roleblocked, then no visits are made, and lookout/detective won't see any movements of the roleblocked person. They can track roleblocker normally.

Detective and Lookout track the witch and her target in the same way they do in SC2 Mafia.

BorkBot
January 24th, 2013, 05:42 PM
I asked about detective/lookout because they come after BG/blockers/witch in the OoO.

Now to be sure..

Can the bodyguard be roleblocked/witch controlled?

Can the witch be blocked?

Are bodyguard, roleblockers, witch, lookout and detective targets affected by bus driving?