The quest for the perfect setup

[AJRiddle]

I have been searching for the perfect setup for a while now and I think I am close, tell me what you guys think.


Godfather
[color=red]Consort (can kill if only mafia)
Random Mafia
[color=green]Sheriff
[color=green]Investigator
[color=green]Doctor
[color=green]Doctor
[color=green]Escort
[color=LIMEgreen]Vigilante
Random [color=green]Town (no citizen)
Serial Killer
[color=purple]Witch
Random [color=grey]Any
Random [color=grey]Any (no mafia)


My alternate list would be Arsonist instead of SK, and Random Neutral instead of Witch, with everything else the same.

EDIT: Also, just wanted to add the other options on time:

1.2 Day, .5 night, No Discussion, No Night Sequence.

[Teckman]

random any into mafia is a disaster for town
you have two doctors which is good for town but the sheriff/invest can only speak one time before they are locked forever by consort/witch

[AJRiddle]

random any into mafia is a disaster for town
you have two doctors which is good for town but the sheriff/invest can only speak one time before they are locked forever by consort/witch


Why would the witch take over the sheriff/invest? It would be better for them to find the vigil/SK/mafioso

Random Any also is hardly ever mafia, I have seen it only happen a few times, Dark Revenant already said Random Any is 34% likely to be a citizen. Even if they are mafia the town can still win.

[Supersun]

If the witch is good enough to hint to the mafia who they are then locking down the Invest or Sherrif is a great idea. I've seen too many games lost because the witch is too busy "looking for the kill button" instead of actually doing something useful like blocking a sherrif to protect the mafia.

[Dark.Revenant]

You do realize you can't set role options at an individual level? Either those random anys will both exclude mafia or both allow mafia.

[AJRiddle]

You do realize you can't set role options at an individual level? Either those random anys will both exclude mafia or both allow mafia.


Ouch, no I had no idea. Is it going to be possible to do this build in the future?

[Dark.Revenant]

Probably not, but you never know.

[Zack]

The mafia require a setting where they can always kill. In your setup if the random mafia is say Janitor or another Consort and the Godfather dies the mafia are screwed unless they sacrifice one member on purpose.

I think its better to have Godfather, Consigliere - replaces GF + one more mafia role, I tend to make it Consort, that becomes Mafioso if alone.

[Twisted]

Here is my setup.

Serial killer or Arsonist
Rand. Neutral (cant be killers)
Rand. Neutral (cant be killers)
Godfather
Mafioso
Rand. Mafia (cant be killers)
Sheriff
Investigator
Doctor
Doctor
Escort
Rand. Town (cant be killers or citizens)
Rand. Town (cant be killers or citizens)
Spy

Some times I will let town be killers or replace spy with vigilante. Most of the time I don't get spy in because some one left during the loading screen. I like two rand non killing neutrals because it makes people think if there is a witch, survivor or jester. I always have bad experiences with vigilantes, just today 4 deaths happened on the first night. Two doctors died, A sheriff and a vigilante. Turned out both town randoms were vigilantes and needless to say, town lost.

I Usually balance out the options and give a different taste for the roles. Like killing role blockers seems like a great SK option so that's usually on, Godfather I give two of his 4 options on. I have experimented with 2 random non killing mafia and a mafioso which gives em a little more power, but screws them over if the mafioso dies first as some one else stated.

Overall I think this is balanced, I would like to put in a few citizens but people hate being one so I usually keep rand. towns non citizens.

[AJRiddle]

The mafia require a setting where they can always kill. In your setup if the random mafia is say Janitor or another Consort and the Godfather dies the mafia are screwed unless they sacrifice one member on purpose.

I think its better to have Godfather, Consigliere - replaces GF + one more mafia role, I tend to make it Consort, that becomes Mafioso if alone.


Good point, but I feel GF, Consig, Consort is too powerful most of the time in the hands of smart mafia. I would take random mafia over consig because it leaves more options open (more variety in your games), and most of the time if GF dies someone will still be able to kill. Also GF is the hardest to find and kill, so he usually survives the longest. Even if the mafia gets stuck not being able to kill they still have voting power and roleblocking power, so it isn't like they can't do anything, and when one of them dies the can kill again with more knowledge.

[AJRiddle]

Here is my setup.

Serial killer or Arsonist
Rand. Neutral (cant be killers)
Rand. Neutral (cant be killers)
Godfather
Mafioso
Rand. Mafia (cant be killers)
Sheriff
Investigator
Doctor
Doctor
Escort
Rand. Town (cant be killers or citizens)
Rand. Town (cant be killers or citizens)
Spy

Some times I will let town be killers or replace spy with vigilante. Most of the time I don't get spy in because some one left during the loading screen. I like two rand non killing neutrals because it makes people think if there is a witch, survivor or jester. I always have bad experiences with vigilantes, just today 4 deaths happened on the first night. Two doctors died, A sheriff and a vigilante. Turned out both town randoms were vigilantes and needless to say, town lost.

I Usually balance out the options and give a different taste for the roles. Like killing role blockers seems like a great SK option so that's usually on, Godfather I give two of his 4 options on. I have experimented with 2 random non killing mafia and a mafioso which gives em a little more power, but screws them over if the mafioso dies first as some one else stated.

Overall I think this is balanced, I would like to put in a few citizens but people hate being one so I usually keep rand. towns non citizens.


I like your setup, but I dislike having a spy included because the mafia are never going to say anything to get themselves caught if they know he is there, and your random towns who can't be killers or citizens have a high chance of becoming a spy.

Also those same random towns could very easily be escorts or doctors, making the game a quickly unbalanced favoring the town.

I know the Vigilante sucks if they randomly kill, but only give him 1 or 2 bullets and it isn't that bad. The vigilante is very cool to have in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing, but also a huge liability in the hands of a noob. I like it because it strongly rewards skill and punishes being dumb, so I am a big fan of vigilante.

I'd suggest allowing random towns to be citizens, and changing Spy to Vigilante.

[Dark.Revenant]

But I wov the spy. He's my favorite role. :(

[Membrax]

This thread is good idea, as this is something that can always be improved on :)

Currently my Saved Slot looks like:

Godfather
Mafioso
Random Mafia
Sheriff
Investigator
Doctor
Escort
Vigilante
Witch
Arsonist or Serial Killer
Jester (if requested) or Rand. Neutral (can't be killer)
Rand. Town (can't be killer)
Rand. Town (can't be killer)
Rand. Neutral/Town/Any (can't be mafia/killer)

I always take the time to ask people if they want something special added/changed. For example, most of the time they want a Jester, no citizen, and different settings on GF or Sheriff.
Last slot can be any kind of Random as long as there is no mafia/killer.

I hate it when people just load a template and run the game immediately.
Half the time people leave or complain for a long while.

[iDruid]

Godfather (undetectable, no invulnerability at night, can kill without Mafioso)
Mafioso
Consigliere (becomes GF, no exact detection) or Framer (becomes Mafioso)
Sheriff (detects only mafia members)
Investigator (no exact detection)
Vigilante (2 shots)
Doctor
Escort
Spy (can hear mafia)
Serial Killer (can be blocked, no invulnerability at night)
Arsonist (ignores armor)
Jester
Survivor (3 vests)
Random Town (no citizen, no killers).

That's my primary setup.

Setup with masons:
Godfather (undetectable, no invulnerability at night, can kill without Mafioso)
Mafioso
Consigliere (becomes GF, no exact detection) or Framer (becomes Mafioso)
Sheriff (detects only mafia members)
Investigator (no exact detection)
Vigilante (2 shots)
Doctor
Escort
Spy (can hear both mafia and masons)
Mason
Mason
Mason
Serial Killer (can be blocked, no invulnerability at night)
Jester

[Afumba]

here games i like to play....

without citizen:
1GF (invulnerable at night)
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Sheriff (can detect all)
Investigator (exact detection)
Doctor
Vigilante (2shots)
Escort or Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Serial Killer (not immune, can be blocked)
Jester
Witch
Random Any (exclude Mafia)
(alternatively... remove SK&Witch and put 2 Arsonist in with ability to ignore immunities)

with citizen:
GF (immune to detection, no night immunity)
Random Mafia (role able to kill without gf/maf)
Random Mafia (role able to kill without gf/maf)
Sheriff (only detect mafia)
Investigator (no exact detection)
Doctor
Vigilante (2shots)
Citizen (all citizen one vest)
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Serial Killer (can be role blocked) (night immunity depends on my mood :D.. sometimes i turn it on somtimes off)
Random neutral (exclude killer if SK night immunity on)

both setups with Last will, without PM & nightsequence turned on. Also with discussion, night 0.5 & day 1.5 with Majority+Trial.

[Supersun]

Godfather (undetectable, no invulnerability at night, can kill without Mafioso)
Mafioso
Consigliere (becomes GF, no exact detection) or Framer (becomes Mafioso)
Sheriff (detects only mafia members)
Investigator (no exact detection)
Vigilante (2 shots)
Doctor
Escort
Spy (can hear mafia)
Serial Killer (can be blocked, no invulnerability at night)
Arsonist (ignores armor)
Jester
Survivor (3 vests)
Random Town (no citizen, no killers).

That's my primary setup.

Setup with masons:
Godfather (undetectable, no invulnerability at night, can kill without Mafioso)
Mafioso
Consigliere (becomes GF, no exact detection) or Framer (becomes Mafioso)
Sheriff (detects only mafia members)
Investigator (no exact detection)
Vigilante (2 shots)
Doctor
Escort
Spy (can hear both mafia and masons)
Mason
Mason
Mason
Serial Killer (can be blocked, no invulnerability at night)
Jester


too many neutrals in the first one imo (neutrals tend to favor the mafia) and 3 masons +1 spy should be able to curb mafia every time for the second one XD.

-----

My set up is if I can remember it

Godfather (immune to detection and able to kill at night)
Consigliere (promoted to GF when GF dies)
Consort / Random Mafia (no killer with every non killer promoted to mafioso if alone)
Serial Killer (kills roleblockers)
Random Neutral (no killer)
Sherrif (only detects mafia)
Investigator
Investigator
Doctor
Escort
Spy (can hear both mafia and masons)
Mason
Mason
There's never a 14th player lol (Random Any, exclude mafia, exclude killing)

You may be asking why 2x invest and 1x doc instead of vice versa. I originally ran it with 2x doc but something funny was happening. The SK always won, like 70% of the time. Without the super sheriff the SK could simply pretend to be a doctor too well. That and 2x doctor tends to lessen actual lie detection instead for "I'm the sherrif, good luck killing all the docs then me before I find you." With one doctor now, you have to be a bit more cautious when you claim sheriff because there's only one person that can save you. At the same time the SK really stayed just as strong. Yeah, it's easier for an invest to find him, but there's a 50% chance he's the SK, or a 50% chance you just killed the only guy that can protect you.

2 Investigators also added something interesting as well. It's rather hard to accurately find the consigliere. there's a 50% chance that it's the other investigator and a 50% chance it's the consig. Not sure about you but potentially revealing BOTH investigators with one claim doesn't sound like the best of ideas.

This may seem like a witchhunt type but the overlapping role descriptions from the investigator and the lack of doctors really help bluffing potential since you could easily be just the town equivalent of whatever role the invest called. It's also the reason I don't add an arson. His exact role description with 3 hostile investigative roles blow him out of the water.

[Metnik]

Godfather (Night Invulnerable, Immune to Detection)
Mafioso
Random Mafia
Sheriff
Investigator
Doctor
Doctor
Escort
Vigilante (2 shots)
Random Town (Not killer)
Random Town (Not killer)
Serial Killer
Witch
Jester

I feel this is a comfortable set-up which always appears to be balanced in my games.

[thisismyname]

Vigilante
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Arsonist
Arsonist
Arsonist
Arsonist
Arsonist
Arsonist
Arsonist
Arsonist

Kinda dumb, but it was actually kind of an interesting game!

[vileguy]

I've also been on the quest for the perfect setup, but have run into some problems. I don't know if there's a quality group of people like from a Mafia channel or something, but pugging has problems outside of the map itself. Specifically, leavers make it hard to fine tune the setup because I'm usually -1 or 2, and vigilantes are almost always in the hand of people I consider noobs because they random fire. I'm running two setups and still tweaking them to find out what's better:

GF (immune, immune)
Consigliere
Framer
Doctor
Doctor
Investigator
Investigator
Investigator
Civilian (1 vest)
Civilian (1 vest)
Serial Killer
Witch
Arsonist
Jester

2nd setup just replaces GF with Mafioso and Civs with Vigilantes

I feel this setup has problems but for the most part it greatly emphasized the focal goal of the game: lying. There is no sheriff, invests cannot detect exact roles, and I've attempted to protect every role possible from immediate detection. The first problem is with framer. I'm not even entirely sure what results from a framed target being investigated - I think it's either gasoline or has weapons. This is why I've added the arsonist. I don't feel arsonists contribute much and they're so difficult to win with.

The goal of the game is lying and here's how I enforce that. People keep telling me that 3 investigators is too powerful, but I disagree. With a witch, a framer, and role-description overlap, investigators information is only of some value. It takes both docs being dead to know who if your target is SK, both civs being dead to know if your target is GF (or both vigs being dead to know if target is mafioso), and all 3 invests being dead to know who consig is assuming he claimed to be invest. Lastly, the Jester better be lying, and this should cause even more chaos.

This means that there is a strong potential for lying to be potent. The consigliere can pretend to be an investigator and share accurate info. After 1 or 2 invests die, players will likely be forced to take a side when the consig and invest(s) argue about who is the real invest(s). SK won't be easily outted and will thus have decent survivability. Witch has plenty of targets to cause chaos with.

I feel the setup is strong, but the problems I have are:
I want to remove arsonist, but since I think framed targets "have gasoline," I include it until I learn the truth
Witch can be found a bit too easily.
Framer can be found easily, not a big problem though.
Witch will have a hard time winning if killing roles are killed early, usually more a problem of mafia and sk not lying well.

I'd appreciate thoughtful criticism and if someone can shed insight on exactly what results from a framed target being investigated by investigator without exact role detection.

[Elixir]

The setup I use on my save slot that doesn't usually get objection:

Godfather (Can Kill w/o Mafioso / Immune to Detection)
Mafioso
Random Mafia (Killing Roles Excluded)
Sheriff
Investigator
Vigilante
Escort
Doctor
Doctor
Random Town (Citizen Excluded)
Random Town (Citizen Excluded)
Serial Killer or Arsonist (Lobby Vote)
Random Neutral (Killing Roles Excluded)
Random Any (Mafia Roles Excluded)

It allows for variation and for the Classes that become a lot stronger on random to flouish (Jester, Spy etc). The Amount of randoms also makes role claiming a lot harder. The random mafia that cannot kill means that the Mafia will always have 1 specialty class to assist them.

[Fat Tony]

I have one that has won a lot of different ways. It's usually my go-to pick.

Godfather Can Kill w/o mafioso/ Immune to Detect (if there is a survivor)/ Immune to Escort/Immune at Night
Consort
Random Mafia
Sheriff
Investigator
Doctor
Doctor
Escort
Random Town Citizens excluded
Random Town " "
Random Town " "
Serial Killer Cannot be killed at night
Random Neutral
Random Any Exclude Killing roles/Mafia

I can change one doctor to Vigi if I feel the need, but in Public games, the Vigi usually screws up games more times than not. Random any to survivor with 3 vests for an added bonus of difficulty for town.

I try and make it so roles overlap for the sheriff and investigator for leads. I want people to actively think out situations, look at the GY etc for clues. I also make it so if you really know what you are doing, your role regardless can be powerful.