WHY AM I AFK!

[Nick]

I'm a survivor and I survived by keeping silent and not voting early game and vote to lynch people late game.

AND THE GAME SAID I'M AFK!

WHAT IS THIS! I WANT MY POINTS!

Really...

[styx0202]

wut? this real?

[Nick]

This is not a troll thread.

[Landstander]

heard some talk about some anti-afk thing but never thought it would go through. we'll see what its all about i guess

[Nick]

I'm the first victim.

[Dark.Revenant]

>> do absolutely nothing for most of the game
>> system is somehow supposed to psychically figure out you weren't AFK

The system has been in place since midnight and you're the only person to complain so far. Really, all you need to offset the early days is to be really active on the later days.

[Nick]

>> do absolutely nothing for most of the game
>> system is somehow supposed to psychically figure out you weren't AFK


Hmm... I neither talked, nor voted, nor vested, nor making last will, for I think first 3-5 nights.

So... if next time I want to employ such a strategy, what should I do to avoid getting AFKed?

[Auckmid]

If you had have vested once or twice, I don't think you would have appeared AFK.

So you didn't vote or talk at all? Most survivours try to appear part of the crowd, but if you took absolutely no actions all game, then the system will think your AFK.

Survivour is the 1 role which it could pay off to take no actions, so might possibly be the 1 role that shouldn't be penalized for no actions

[Nick]

I didn't vote nor talked for I think first 3-4 days. Keeping a low profile, so that they didn't know I exist.
I vested for the last 3 nights. And voted to lynch for the last 3 days. Didn't talk much though.

@DR: "Really, all you need to offset the early days is to be really active on the later days."
Didn't expect this... than 'total amount' of activity, how about 'consistent' activity?
At least I'm survivor, can still spam click vest. Pro-jester however...

[Graham]

So, a spy will never get points?

[McJesus]

Could someone please explain to me the exact requirments of not being afk in the new system?

[Graham]

So you could maximize time being afk?

[McJesus]

no so i dont lose if I am being quiet. If I am at the keyboard it isn't afk

[Dark.Revenant]

I could include a system that tracks mouse movement to gauge AFK level, but that would cause a lot of lag, so I didn't do it.

I'll be changing the threshold level based on role, namely for Survivor, Citizen, Spy (threshold level 3 instead of 4 -- lower is more AFK). And yes, doing role actions adds a bunch of action level, but not a terribly high amount. It only covers for about 4 minutes of inactivity per action taken.

[styx0202]

maybe make a command like "-not afk" for roles that have no action at night
and make it add # min. of action level ::)

[Yayap]

maybe make a command like "-not afk" for roles that have no action at night
and make it add # min. of action level ::)


Already implemented, just have to put in a last will each day. No one sees it till you die.

[Dark.Revenant]

>> program macro application to type enter, '-not afk', and then enter again every minute. GG, you can AFK the whole time now.

[styx0202]

Lol, oh stupid me, i thought it was made to teach actual afk players not to be afk.... and not against people who would intentionally use macro application /DERP

[Musou]

Cross-posting here as it might not be read in General forum:
http://www.thecouncilofmages.com/forum/index.php/topic,1431.msg13112.html#msg13112

Basically I was GF taking actions every night and talking at night, but not during the day but I was still marked AFK and got no points. I thought it was a viable strategy, but I guess not. Replay is uploaded in the other post.

[Dark.Revenant]

There's a bug where the GF doesn't get action points if he sends a Mafioso to kill. Is that what happened?

[Cupine]

The idea of having -not afk thing is sort of defeated by someone coming back each night typing it and then alt tabbing to do his regular work. I think the system right now is based on speaking during the day, which is a challenge to do when you're a role like survivor or mafia in general, this adds a new flavor to the game and I believe that the afk system is great compared to other games that you can just farm.

[Nick]

I did some tests. I was mafioso and went AFKed the whole game. Literally did nothing - clicked nothing.

But I'm not AFK! Maybe thanks to GF.

[Dark.Revenant]

Was the game shorter than 11 minutes or so?

[Nick]

Ugh. Cant find the replay. But mayor was considered AFK even though he revealed and voted in the very end.

[Dark.Revenant]

>> AFK all game except for very end

[Spy]

Instead of dropping people, why don't you just allow those who are more "active" more points.

[Nick]

Instead of dropping people, why don't you just allow those who are more "active" more points.


Will lead to spam clicks, spam chat and spam votes...

[Graham]

I think the anti-afk system is like DRM.. causes more problems than it solves. I'd suggest ya, DR, to remove it till you find a better way to implement it.

[Nick]

What is done is done. If we have the code, just implement it.

Our job is to help DR optimize it. Stay till the end and check if anyone is semi-active but considered AFK.

[Lynch Doctor]

Bad system got no points last game.


Was Amnesiac and didnt say that much early days since I always get lynched as Amnesiac otherwise. Later I switched to Spy and talked in chat for a few days but still got no points at the end.

Re-think it. This is not how its supposed to be.

[Dark.Revenant]

Any system I make can be defeated with a simple macro.

Basically, I'm fucked and the AFKers have won. It's kinda like trying to beat terrorists except that anybody can commit the crime easily and without repercussion in a country filled with scum. Beating AFK people causes collateral damage worse than KGB stings.

But, it's too late. The damage is already done and a lot of people have quit the game permanently.

[Double]

In all the games I have played, AFK players have almost never been a problem (probably encountered them less than 1% of my games). This system forces people to talk and take part in stuff you wouldn't always do. Many roles need to stay out of the conversation and not participate in certain lynches to be able to achieve their goal (survivor who never votes innocent/guilty looks like a legit survivor and will not be killed). I think it is a acceptable strategy to be INACTIVE but the system in place incorrectly classifies this as being AFK.

[Graham]

AFKers are actually rare. Didn't see why this was implemented, really.

A better analogy would be DRM - hurts legit users and people who pirates get away scot free

[Dark.Revenant]

That's it.

I.
FUCKING.
QUIT.

Being compared to DRM means I have FAILED COMPLETELY as a developer.

[Spy]

Here we go again. Nobody actually complained that much!

[styx0202]

i honestly haven't seen more than 4 people complain about it :P
but still, remove it, you tried, it didn't work out, try something else :)

i would suggest testing things out first before adding them to public games though (like with lagre group of people)
but you should know that anyway




A better analogy would be DRM - hurts legit users and people who pirates get away scot free


talking about DRM, have you heard, Driver 3 will have full time DRM, no internet no game

[Graham]

DR, this is a small bump on the road. The metagame you created is very awesome and we love it! We are being picky because we love it so much :)

Wow, really? Full time DRM sucks.. So it won't be playable on laptops basically lol. I only use laptops while traveling..

[No exit]

You can first check on the normal ways (talking, voting, using abilities, clicking the "help"/"menu"/open&close graveyard&player list buttons) and then if the player hasn't done any of those for a while, you can start to check mouse input on this particular player only, thus perhaps solving the lag issues.

Well I doubt that loads of people would go through the effort downloading custom software and joining shitloads of games just to AFK them just for a little bit of points when:
- You get less points and less fun from it compared to just playing. (Why are you trying to farm points when you don't like playing the game and the hat you have unlocked is only there in the game you don't like?)
- Since it's a 3rd party program that manipulates input there is a chance that Blizzard will think you are trying to cheat in melee games and get your Starcraft account banned.
- You can have better results hacking the map/bank and giving yourself infinite points.

Another possible idea would be to add "social" control where the players can give negative feedback to other players that are behaving badly (AFK/trolling/skyping/offensive name/offensive language/...). Note that people that constantly give bad feedback to everyone would have considerably less of an impact then those that do it rarely. Admins can also give feedback and consult other players feedback to better get an idea if the player really is a troll. Players with a low feedback would get penalties like for example no hat + male model only, no name picking, gain reduced/no points, get a warning sign next to their name (which means you are more likely to get targeted first nights), lose their ability to give bad feedback to others, ... . People that get horrible feedback could even get vote kicked by players or even kicked on join.
Also early leavers would get negative feedback.
Also this can help in new admin recruitment to find "clean" players.
The only problem I see immediately is that new players could get negative feedback by other frustrated people that think they are trolling. Maybe something like a reason for negative feedback could help here where "playing badly" as a beginning player would give a lesser bad feedback rating.

I know this could mean a lot of work, but if implemented well it could reduce the amount of posts in the "complaints" forum and the work to handle them.

[Dark.Revenant]

A troll player just has to delete his bank to reset his karma. Or he can hack it to give himself 9000 karma.

[No exit]

A troll player just has to delete his bank to reset his karma. Or he can hack it to give himself 9000 karma.


1) And lose all hats/points/achievements.

2) Karma would have a maximum limit

Note that not every troll is a hacker.

[Dark.Revenant]

Oh, and trolls can just organize circle-jerk games where they give themselves tons of karma over and over.

[No exit]

Oh, and trolls can just organize circle-jerk games where they give themselves tons of karma over and over.

I never said anything about positive karma (easy to abuse for skypers). It would restore itself per finished game.

[philie]

hmm dr...
i recently played a game where i was investi
6/8 town died over 2 first days before i found out all the roles
i later didnt speak up so that mafia/sk would have less clues on who to hit and potentially hit each other
later, the plan succeeded. I said nothing and teh game was over after 4 days so i didnt check that many people.
why do i deserve to be afk, it it was my strategy?

[Darth Sand]

I think it's really difficult to develop something effective against afkers while not let non-afkers appear as afk sometimes, if it's not impossible. Also, as you said yourself, every system can be defeated by macros and of course hacks.
It's basically the same problem as with trolls, hackers and general idiots. We cannot prevent them from playing mafia and gaining points.
But please, don't give up. Nobody here would be part of this forum if he didn't love your game (at least I think so). And it's one of the very few maps I actually can and want to play again and again, it's so much fun.
Starcraft 2 has just so many players that for whatever reason try to farm points even in custom games, spend their time trolling etc.. So the only solution (as always) seems to be that we try to get inhouse games going so we actually know who we're playing with.

[Dark.Revenant]

Has Mille STILL neglected to upload the damn thing? It's been in his inbox (and I've been telling him via fucking IM) for over TWO DAYS.

[styx0202]

No, he updated it today