Religion

[oops_ur_dead]

No flaming please.

Short explanation of each option:

Theism

Trinitarianism: The belief of one deity with three forms. Mostly held by Christians.
Monotheism: The belief of a single deity. For example, Christians, Muslims, and Jews.
Polytheism: The belief in multiple, distinct deities. For example, Hindus.
Pantheism: The belief that the universe and god are one and the same.

Antitheism: The belief that there is a deity, but that they are evil and are to be fought and not worshipped.

Agnosticism: The belief that there may be a deity, but are uncertain about the matter.

Atheism: The belief that no deities exist.

Apatheism: A lack of opinion on the matter.

I, myself, am an agnostic. I don't see any reason to believe in a deity with 100% certainty, but the possibility certainly exists. I am not a militant agnostic, and think that personal religion is a good thing, but I much dislike evangelism, and believe that religion should be purely personal and should not affect the lives of anyone not of your faith.

[FalseTruth]

Define God and deity please. Every person defines God differently.

One may say God is an all powerful being which controls all of us and commands us what to do.
In this case, I am an Atheist.

One may say God is/are the atoms that compose all beings.
In this case, I am a Pantheist.

One may say God is a benevolent being who merely created us.
In this case, I am agnostic.

[oops_ur_dead]

Deity/god is defined as an omnipotent being.

[McJesus]

I'm an atheist/agnostic and while I respect other peoples beliefs I think religion like any other sort of fanboyism has had extremly negative consequences on our society. Also people who take their religion too seriously and preach their morals in other peoples face offend me. If you would ask me in front of my family I would say I was cathloic since I'm not going to start a giant war there which is why I think the numbers of us are way larger than anything actually reported.

[Spy]

There is God, Jesus, and Me. That is all I believe in.

[Spy]

Deity/god is defined as an omnipotent being.

Only your opinion!

[Spy]

God is perfection of the best form, and we are all shadow of forms.

And the best form is goodness.

Get it right, please. This is not flaming; this is education for the uneducated.

[MrSmarter]

Nice triple post.

[chocopaw]

Agnosticism is the epistemological standpoint that the existence of a deity is unknowable. As this it is not an answer to your question, as it does not say anything about whether you do believe or not. There are agnosticist atheists and agnosticist theists.
Also I don't understand why you differentiate between trinitarianism and monotheism for this poll, as most christians have no clue of trinity. The true trinity of course lies in platos tripleposts.

[Zack]

I'm not sure what to mark up there, but i'l share my beliefs...

Religions, all of them, were made up by mankind. Thats not to say there is no god, there is a greater power that we cannot possibly understand, but that greater power never actually talked to any human being or got directly involved in our lives.

All those miracles and stories in the bible, they are just stories as far as we know. Heck they could be fairytales, fictions, told in the past by storytellers who passed the tales down to their children, who mistook fiction for truth.

I want to believe in the supernatural, and there are mysterious powers in the world. However, religions have only historical items and tales to back up their claims, without actually going back in time and seeing those things happening firsthand there is noway to know that they actually happened. Being so tied down by the past to the point of zealous and fanatical rage is stupid, religions fuel war and conflict, they opress women and have many opposing sects within them. Religions are stupid, and should be erased from this world, all of them.

You can believe in and worship God, but stop thinking that God belongs exclusively to one religion or another. You can't claim exclusivity on God, you don't own God. Understand? Wish those idiots would get off their high horse and open their eyes. But those religious fanatics will forever remain blind and keep trying to kill each other, and take the rest of the world down with them.

[Spy]

There are leaders and followers in this world.

God created them equally. God channels His powers to the leaders like Jesus to lead the world into goodness.

Only leaders will understand the whole truth of God. The followers will have to blindly believe their leaders and God, and give all their trust to them, and hope that they will do more good than bad.

(There are also the mentally ill and delusional. The evil.)

Plato is a leader. I am a leader. Please follow me.

[Dark.Revenant]

There are leaders and followers in this world.

God created them equally. God channels His powers to the leaders like Jesus to lead the world into goodness.

Only leaders will understand the whole truth of God. The followers will have to blindly believe their leaders and God, and give all their trust to them, and hope that they will do more good than bad.

(There are also the mentally ill and delusional. The evil.)

Plato is a leader. I am a leader. Please follow me.


I was about to say you were full of shit, but then I noticed your use of "will" instead of "should". You're just cynical, which I don't have a problem with.

[Spy]

There are leaders and followers in this world.

God created them equally. God channels His powers to the leaders like Jesus to lead the world into goodness.

Only leaders will understand the whole truth of God. The followers will have to blindly believe their leaders and God, and give all their trust to them, and hope that they will do more good than bad.

(There are also the mentally ill and delusional. The evil.)

Plato is a leader. I am a leader. Please follow me.


I was about to say you were full of shit, but then I noticed your use of "will" instead of "should". You're just cynical, which I don't have a problem with.

You don't have a leader in your life yet. Or maybe you do now.

[Raiden]

The fundamental truth is that we know shit. Agnosticism is the only way. You may want to believe, you may claim that you do, but it requires insanity to truly believe. If you ever had the shadow of a doubt, then you are an agnostic, regardless of what you say. Otherwise, you are insane.

PS: God and No God are the same thing.

[Spy]

Only your opinion!

[oops_ur_dead]

I'm interested in the number of atheist replies. For the record, you are an atheist iff your response to the question "Is there at least one deity?" is "No". If it is anything else, you are agnostic.

People don't realize that atheism requires as much faith as theism. Even Dawkins is agnostic.

[chocopaw]

As i said...



Agnosticism is the epistemological standpoint that the existence of a deity is unknowable. As this it is not an answer to your question, as it does not say anything about whether you do believe or not. There are agnosticist atheists and agnosticist theists.
Also I don't understand why you differentiate between trinitarianism and monotheism for this poll, as most christians have no clue of trinity. The true trinity of course lies in platos tripleposts.


Atheism = "without god". Nothing more, nothing less.

[Spy]

You'd think to believe in God is a naive position. And I can understand why people are so adamant that No God and God is the same thing. It's because most people are "normal" "rational" people without enlightenment from God. That is why there are enlightened people like me to make sure that the world is still good and going in the general good direction.

I do believe in God, and I feel I am quite informed. (I've studied science to quite a high level, as well as philosophy to quite a high level.) I know what rational is. I have studied probability to a high level too. It is part of my course.

Look, there is one thing being rational. And another being enlightened. Delusional? No.

You have to understand something. Believing in God is not that far fetched. It really depends if you even understand what God is. God is only perfect goodness to me. And we all aim towards the good.

We all want to be God in a way. It's the only way to be close to God. How? Just be good! It's not that difficult!

What is good? You may ask. Now we are asking something more constructive!!!

[thisismyname]

I'm interested in the number of atheist replies. For the record, you are an atheist iff your response to the question "Is there at least one deity?" is "No". If it is anything else, you are agnostic.

People don't realize that atheism requires as much faith as theism. Even Dawkins is agnostic.


I reject that BS notion. Atheism is NOT a belief system. An atheist is somebody WITHOUT a belief system at all. That means ZERO "faith". In other words, someone who rejects claims not founded on logic, which I'm perfectly comfortable with.

An agnostic is somebody who can't make up his/her damn mind. Or, just somebody who just isn't comfortable denying any possibility of an existense of a supreme being.

[oops_ur_dead]

I reject that BS notion. Atheism is NOT a belief system. An atheist is somebody WITHOUT a belief system at all. That means ZERO "faith". In other words, someone who rejects claims not founded on logic, which I'm perfectly comfortable with.

Incorrect. Atheism requires as much faith as theism, since there is no proof either way (from a completely neutral standpoint). Agnostics are the ones without faith, since they neither believe or have trust in the belief of a deity, not in the nonexistence of a deity.

[chocopaw]

Oops, am I on your ignorelist or why do you keep repeating the same false statement?

[oops_ur_dead]

What false statement?

[chocopaw]

Apparently reading is not one of the hobbies of the members of this forum. I think I will stop participating in discussions for now.

[thisismyname]

I reject that BS notion. Atheism is NOT a belief system. An atheist is somebody WITHOUT a belief system at all. That means ZERO "faith". In other words, someone who rejects claims not founded on logic, which I'm perfectly comfortable with.

Incorrect. Atheism requires as much faith as theism, since there is no proof either way (from a completely neutral standpoint). Agnostics are the ones without faith, since they neither believe or have trust in the belief of a deity, not in the nonexistence of a deity.


That makes about as much sense as a black man joining the KKK...

What does proof have to do with anything? How can somebody who rejects the notion of a belief system, higher calling, or supreme being have "faith"? Atheism is a flat out rejection of faith. I hate how religious zealots throw around quips like "you have your belief system and I have mine", when in fact, NO I DO NOT have a belief system. That's the point, but they don't get it and like to obscure the situation. I know where you're coming from, and it's all based on the insecurity of those who cannot accept that maybe, just maybe, the world really is constructed by science and logic, and need to keep reaffirming themselves just to quell their own doubt. After all, religion thrives on numbers and a collectivist mindset.

And for the record, you are correct that there is no "proof" of religion not existing. There is also no proof that I didn't go out last night and get laid by 20 virgins. Doesn't mean it happened. This is the one point of nonsense that religious people constantly bring up that boils me. The burden of proof is not on an Atheist to prove god exists. The fact of the matter is, religion is outlandish and there is no proof to support the outlandishness promulgated by religion.

[oops_ur_dead]

*sigh*
Faith is believing in something for which there is no proof. The statement "There is no god" has no proof to back it up. Thus, you have faith that there is no god. Faith does NOT mean religion. Just because something is very, very unlikely it doesn't mean that the possibility is zero.

[thisismyname]

*sigh*
Faith is believing in something for which there is no proof. The statement "There is no god" has no proof to back it up. Thus, you have faith that there is no god. Faith does NOT mean religion. Just because something is very, very unlikely it doesn't mean that the possibility is zero.


If you want to argue the semantics of a word, that's one thing, but you still don't get the point...

An atheist DOES NOT have faith in any ideal. It is, in fact, thiests that have proposed for centuries the idea of a creator, which of course, has zero evidence to back it up. "There is no god" is not something that needs to be proven. Once again, you are trying to prove a negative, which doesn't make sense. If you are trying to argue that an Atheist has "faith" (by your definition of the word) in science and logic, that is also incorrect, as there is substantial proof to back up science and logic. There is NO proof to back up religion. That's the difference. I don't have faith in anything other than not to believe unfounded nonsense, which is NOT faith.

This is a simple point, and no matter how many times I try to explain this to religious people, they refuse to listen. From now on, I'll just make outlandish claims and ask people to prove me wrong or else I have to be right.

[Raiden]

Statement: i am 24 years old.

Theists would say "yes, you do!"
Atheists would say "no, you don't!"

Who is correct? How can you know? It has nothing to do with the burden of proof. They both CANNOT know the answer unless they know me or they somehow searched for further information. They give different answers, blindly believing that their own answer is the truth. This applies to every kind and category of statement, no exceptions.

It's the same with the "God exists" statement. Except you cannot search for info. And agnostics know that.

[Narks]

Statement: i am 24 years old.

Theists would say "yes, you do!"
Atheists would say "no, you don't!"

Who is correct? How can you know? It has nothing to do with the burden of proof. They both CANNOT know the answer unless they know me or they somehow searched for further information. They give different answers, blindly believing that their own answer is the truth. This applies to every kind and category of statement, no exceptions.

It's the same with the "God exists" statement. Except you cannot search for info. And agnostics know that.


gravity is powered by eating babies

you all blindly believe otherwise

[Hero]

I reject that BS notion. Atheism is NOT a belief system. An atheist is somebody WITHOUT a belief system at all. That means ZERO "faith". In other words, someone who rejects claims not founded on logic, which I'm perfectly comfortable with.

Incorrect. Atheism requires as much faith as theism, since there is no proof either way (from a completely neutral standpoint). Agnostics are the ones without faith, since they neither believe or have trust in the belief of a deity, not in the nonexistence of a deity.

You want to tell me, that my atheism, my not-believing requires any faith?

I don't believe there's no god, because I know. Knowing requires 0 (z-e-r-o) faith. Jesus Christ (pun intended), that's why I hate coming up with my atheism. From one side I'm getting the christian bull**** (no offense, but the amount of history distortion they can make is just ridiculous), and from the other someone tries to explain ME what MY opinion really consists of. No, just don't. You clearly don't have the slightest idea how an atheist sees the world if you say things like this.

[S.A.S.Cnl.Alpha]

What's the current argument, I've gotten lost, from what I can tell there are a bunch of pseudo-atheists trying to defend atheism. Oh and Oops being an ass, somewhat.

[Hero]

Pseudo-atheist, lol, look at that! I've almost forgot I have to finish my atheist school first, before I can be a REAL atheist, shiiit. Some funny people here.

[oops_ur_dead]

Why are people assuming that I'm religious in any way? I'm not.


I don't believe there's no god, because I know. Knowing requires 0 (z-e-r-o) faith.

Where is your definitive proof that god doesn't exist?

[Darth Sand]

Why are people assuming that I'm religious in any way? I'm not.


I don't believe there's no god, because I know. Knowing requires 0 (z-e-r-o) faith.

Where is your definitive proof that god doesn't exist?


There is no need for proof.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

[oops_ur_dead]

Why are people assuming that I'm religious in any way? I'm not.


I don't believe there's no god, because I know. Knowing requires 0 (z-e-r-o) faith.

Where is your definitive proof that god doesn't exist?


There is no need for proof.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

It is possible that a teapot is circling the sun right now, thus it is incorrect to say "There is no teapot circling the sun".

[chocopaw]

You did not understand Russell. :)

Besides: Believing is an act. If you don't actively believe in some form of deity, you are an atheist. You, Oops, are an agnostic atheist. What is your problem with that?

[oops_ur_dead]

I have no problem with that. I have a problem with people claiming that atheism requires no faith while everything else does.

[Hero]

Why are people assuming that I'm religious in any way? I'm not.


I don't believe there's no god, because I know. Knowing requires 0 (z-e-r-o) faith.

Where is your definitive proof that god doesn't exist?

No-no, we weren't arguing about whether there is a God or not, and if no, why not. We were arguing about if atheists are believers. I looked at the facts, and my conclusion was that there is no god, and it's not a belief for me, nor do I have any faith in it. [yes, we can argue about if i'm right or wrong, but that's another question]. On the other hand, people who lose their faith, often becomes atheists. And it's not because they put in their faith somewhere else (in atheism, now), but because they don't have it anymore.

You can play with the words, and make it look like it requires any faith, but it won't change the fact that it doesn't.



I have no problem with that. I have a problem with people claiming that atheism requires no faith while everything else does.

I don't know about everything else, because I1ve never been anything else. I'm only claiming what I know. I have no idea what is it like being a christian, or buddhist, or anything else, or what does it require, and what not.

[S.A.S.Cnl.Alpha]

Atheism is the faith of there is no such thing as a god or so. Atheists believe in that there is(are) no god(s).


Apatheism is NOT GIVING A FUCK. and is what probably what most people are going for


so yeah
what's the argument
that's going on
that shouldn't be going on

[oops_ur_dead]

I looked at the facts, and my conclusion was that there is no god, and it's not a belief for me, nor do I have any faith in it. [yes, we can argue about if i'm right or wrong, but that's another question]. On the other hand, people who lose their faith, often becomes atheists. And it's not because they put in their faith somewhere else (in atheism, now), but because they don't have it anymore.

Faith and belief do not mean religion. Faith means trusting in or believing in something for which there is no concrete evidence. Believing in something is when you hold that something to be true. You believe that there is no god since you hold it to be true, and you have faith that there is no god since it is impossible to disprove god.

[Spy]

If it easier for you guys, can we not all believe in good?

[Auckmid]

Antitheism: The belief that there is a deity, but that they are evil and are to be fought and not worshipped.

What religion or group exists that follows this belief???

[thisismyname]

Atheism is the faith of there is no such thing as a god or so. Atheists believe in that there is(are) no god(s).


Apatheism is NOT GIVING A FUCK. and is what probably what most people are going for


so yeah
what's the argument
that's going on
that shouldn't be going on


The "argument" going on here, if you want to call it that, is that there are bogus claims by religious people that Atheists have a belief in something, and that its just "different", or we "havn't seen the light". I've been down this road countless fucking times with these people, and the responses are the same...Denial.

You might want to look up faith in the dictionary. You cant just throw the word around to disguise a religious convert agenda. I'll try this again with different words...."faith" is the belief in an ideal not founded on anything a human can understand. Atheism is not a belief in any such ideal. Not believing an incredible claim of spirituality is NOT an ideal. Believing it is.

For example, take the Birther movement against President Obama (the people trying to prove Obama was not a US born citizen). THEY believed in an ideal; the rest of us did not. It doesn't make sense to say we all believed in an ideal that Obama was really a naturally born citizen. The burden of proof was on them. They proposed it. It's that simple.

Atheism is a REJECTION of any such ideal of religion. It doesn't matter that I can't prove thunder is NOT god bowling, or that Adam and Eve DID NOT exist according to some book written by people high on mushrooms, or whatever other such nonsense. The fact of the matter is THEY can't prove it DOES EXIST, but this hurts them and they retaliate with this stupid argument. We should have no choice as intelligent human beings in the 21st century to not base further decisions on unfounded claims, but of course...the reality is anything but.

[Chaoseffigy]

Hard Determinism. /thread

[S.A.S.Cnl.Alpha]

I really feel clueless, because I am. I'm more or less more impressed that this has gone up to three pages now.

[Chaoseffigy]

You'd think to believe in God is a naive position. And I can understand why people are so adamant that No God and God is the same thing. It's because most people are "normal" "rational" people without enlightenment from God. That is why there are enlightened people like me to make sure that the world is still good and going in the general good direction.

I do believe in God, and I feel I am quite informed. (I've studied science to quite a high level, as well as philosophy to quite a high level.) I know what rational is. I have studied probability to a high level too. It is part of my course.

Look, there is one thing being rational. And another being enlightened. Delusional? No.

You have to understand something. Believing in God is not that far fetched. It really depends if you even understand what God is. God is only perfect goodness to me. And we all aim towards the good.

We all want to be God in a way. It's the only way to be close to God. How? Just be good! It's not that difficult!

What is good? You may ask. Now we are asking something more constructive!!!


For someone who considers himself a philosopher, you sure are ignorant. Or a troll. Regardless, it doesn't matter.

[WaWMoose]

Here's my two cents on this topic: People who believe in a God say well where is your definitive proof that he doesn't exist..that doesn't make you right, becuase here is my question: Where is your definitive proof that he does exist, and no disrespect to anyone but some book written thousands of years ago is NOT proof, its simply what you base your beliefs on.

The thing that bothers me about most religions is that they make you believe that without religion, you have no morals, and you will never do the right thing. This idea is completely wrong, morals don't come from a book we read, they come from our interactions with other people and our conscience.

My opinion.

[Chaoseffigy]

Here's my two cents on this topic: People who believe in a God say well where is your definitive proof that he doesn't exist..that doesn't make you right, becuase here is my question: Where is your definitive proof that he does exist, and no disrespect to anyone but some book written thousands of years ago is NOT proof, its simply what you base your beliefs on.

The thing that bothers me about most religions is that they make you believe that without religion, you have no morals, and you will never do the right thing. This idea is completely wrong, morals don't come from a book we read, they come from our interactions with other people and our conscience.

My opinion.


I'd take it another step further and say morals/free will/wrong and right do not exist.

[philie]

I really think christianity was a philosophical theory when it began, but the times were ignorant, people liked to add something of their own to make it sound more trustworthy while telling the tale. Later it turned to a political crowd controlling, moneymaking tool. My observation was that christianity is very much like communism, with a piece of meat in the end of the road, called eternal life. While promoting selflessness and goodness and glorifying being poor, it made the low class remain where they want them, and keep if from rebelling

and not to mention that bible defies evolution, thats just silly isnt it? remember the religious executing people who would make a scientific breakthrough? goodness in its pure form, anything to preserve the innocent from the heretics trying to lead them off the righteous way.

and to oops, do you need faith to not believe in (non-conventional) for you gods, as in the gods of a polytheistic religion, the ones that arent inbread into your culture? how does your agnostic believe handle that? does it allow all gods to be probable, while they all are defying each others existence?

[Envy]

Anything is possible...

Honestly though I believe too many people focus too much on death and forget to live their life!

Also if God wants me to worship him then maybe he should just you know tell everyone... so many people die because of religion.

[Spy]

People die because of other people, natural disasters, etc.

Religion, like politics, and weapons are just mediums. People die then they die. It's part of the life cycle.

[Nick]

Hear my story:

There is a huge haystack. Jack and Jill have been told that there is a needle in the haystack. Jack believed that there is a needle in the haystack. Jill believed that there is none. The haystack is so huge that it is impossible for Jack to find the needle. The haystack is so huge that it is impossible for Jill to prove that there is no needle. Both have no proof to support their beliefs.

[Nick]

Scientific test:

A new treatment has been designed. In order to promote the new treatment, two scientist need to prove that the new treatment is better than the existing treatment.

Hypothesis: New treatment is significantly better than existing treatment in {test}
Null hypothesis: New treatment is not significantly better than existing treatment in {test}

A battery of tests are conducted. New treatment is shown not to be significantly better than existing treatment.
Obviously, with such results the new treatment will not be accepted to replace the existing treatment.

The caveat here is obviously the type of tests used for evaluation.

Scientific argument is that: as long as you can't prove it... it CANNOT BE true... not IS NOT true...

[Nick]

In short: Both sides are wasting time, effort, resources and energy debating on GOD OR NO GOD issue.

In the meantime, they should just SHUT UP...

[p.h.]

I'm just Atheist until someone can prove that God exists or that I somehow find truth/belief in him.

[Spy]

God has been proven to exist many times, but people just care about other things.

[chocopaw]

Funny sidenote: No christian who understands his religion would ever try to prove the existence of god. :)

[philie]

plato, the gods existence wont be proven to me until he materializes out of thin air and punches me in the face for being non-believer. He is almighty, and he loses nothing by doing so. Giving people hard evidence wont remove the free from them.

[Spy]

Give me your address :D

[FalseTruth]

I'm just Atheist until someone can prove that God exists or that I somehow find truth/belief in him.

This is the definition of an Agnostic.

[FalseTruth]

God is perfection of the best form, and we are all shadow of forms.

And the best form is goodness.

Get it right, please. This is not flaming; this is education for the uneducated.

You guys criticize Plato without considering to think what he is defending. He is defending his opinion of what God is. He believes God is goodness.

Therefore, to him. The question, "Is there a God?" is synonymous to "Is there Goodness?"

If you answer yes to this question, then you shouldn't be arguing with Plato. All these arguments are senseless and futile to say the least. Everyone is defining God on their own terms and arguing about whether their version of God exists.

In my opinion, Plato's God does exist. A man sitting in the clouds with a gate and a few angels does not exist. A bunch of Gods with elephant faces do not exist.

And that we cannot be certain of anything.

[S.A.S.Cnl.Alpha]

We argue with plato regardless.
we're cool like that
8)

[Nick]

Honestly though I believe too many people focus too much on death and forget to live their life!


Religion is SUPPOSED to guide us how to LIVE properly, and give us HOPE after DEATH?



God wants me to worship him


Depends on your religion I guess. Some god/goddess (singular and plural) can't be bothered.



so many people die because of religion


No one died from religion. They died due to human's own folly. Please don't shift the blame...

[WaWMoose]

I just read a news story I lost holf of now that basically stated years and years ago, what people thought God 'made' or 'controlled', but whenever the science behind that particulat subject was proved and we knew God had nothing to do with it, the possibility of a God keeps getting pushed back. It said over the years the scientific theory had improved and been corrected and even proved to an extent, made massive progress, while the possibiliy of a God kept getting pushed back further further down. Wish i could find the paper >(.

Something i thought of myself. Theory > Belief, Because a Theory at least has a scientific background and has been based on scientific observations. While a belief is nothing more the an illusion the something is true. This is about Creationism vs Evolution btw :)

[Nick]

I just read a news story I lost holf of now that basically stated years and years ago, what people thought God 'made' or 'controlled', but whenever the science behind that particulat subject was proved and we knew God had nothing to do with it, the possibility of a God keeps getting pushed back. It said over the years the scientific theory had improved and been corrected and even proved to an extent, made massive progress, while the possibiliy of a God kept getting pushed back further further down. Wish i could find the paper >(.

Something i thought of myself. Theory > Belief, Because a Theory at least has a scientific background and has been based on scientific observations. While a belief is nothing more the an illusion the something is true. This is about Creationism vs Evolution btw :)


As for me, even if science could explain certain phenomenon, it still does not disprove god/gods/deities/spirits. Why do we only associate them with magics and unknowns? Why not 'godly' scientific knowledge?

[Henry]

I am merely anti-religion in just about any form. Religion promotes uncritical thinking and can lead to a loss of individuality as people shape their thoughts to those expressed by that of the religion. I am repulsed by this due to critical thinking being the driving force in our development as a species and individuality being the trait I find most important in humanity. I don't proclaim there is no God, but claiming that there is a God is just as outlandish as claiming any other fantasy entity exists. This follows the thinking of the "Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster".

People give religion credit for their great achievements and great atrocities they commit. The individual should take credit for their actions, not do it in the name of a religion that is but a concoction of human speculation.

[Zack]

No one died from religion. They died due to human's own folly. Please don't shift the blame...


Religion is human's own folly to begin with, so it is included in your statement. In other words you just said: "No one died from human's own folly. They died due to human's own folly. Please don't shift the blame...", doesn't make sense, no it doesn't.

Religion is an excuse for people to kill or shun other people in the name of "all that is good and right and pure and blah blah blah".

If religion did not exist there wouldn't be terrorists. All terrorists are either religious, insane, or both. All terrorists believe they are in the right, they are the force of justice, and who they kill are the "evil enemy that must be destroyed".

How is religion good if it gives birth to such insanity? Did you know that children are being brainwashed in schools by religious people who take away their choices in life just to keep their insane agenda going? This happens everywhere.

[Nick]

Ugh, "religion" is not only the way to brainwash people. Though as far as I can see "religion" worked the best - a free army which will even fund your cause. Alternative strategies include "ideology" and "idolization or some sort".

[Zack]

Religion works best because its easy to lure in the misguided insecure masses... Ideology would work only in specific situations where many people will follow out of extreme reasons, prime example: the humiliation Germany suffered after losing World War I, where France insisted on punishing the Germans excessively, causing them to turn, in desperation, to Hitler and allowing him to rise to power, which resulted in World War II and the Holocaust. The world learned from that mistake...

Yet religion is still here, there's been no world war over religious reasons as of yet. Thankfully there probably won't be. But, specifically because there won't be, people won't learn the folly of blindly following a religion. Having doubts is healthy, having doubts means you're sane.

[Nick]

It is YET, I believe... currently, it's still at the level of civil wars, or more accurately unrest...

Lets see what will happen after the victor rises from the ash...

[Hero]

No one died from religion. They died due to human's own folly. Please don't shift the blame...

Are you for real...? Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

[oops_ur_dead]

He has a point. Religion is an idea. Ideas don't kill people. People brainwashed by ideas kill people.
A minor technicality.

[Hero]

Okey then. If Nick says the institution of church has nothing to do with God, then I can see his point.

[Nick]

Institution of church for better or worse has something to do with God. However, institution of church IS NOT God and DO NOT represent God.

[chocopaw]

"I'm God, and I disapprove of this message."

[FalseTruth]

Yet religion is still here, there's been no world war over religious reasons as of yet. Thankfully there probably won't be. But, specifically because there won't be, people won't learn the folly of blindly following a religion. Having doubts is healthy, having doubts means you're sane.


That depends on what you define to be a world war. If you think a World War is defined to be one in which only developed nations engage in, which is basically WW1 and WW2, then your world view is extremely limited.

The "world" is not just defined as USA + Europe + Japan/China.

No true world war has occurred yet.

[Dark.Revenant]

The previous world wars included Canada, the United States, Mexico (yep), Australia, Japan, China, many southeast Asian countries, Korea, the Middle East, North Africa, all of Europe, and Russia. I don't remember if South America was involved in any way, though.

Basically, some of Africa, all of North America, all of Europe, Australia, and most of Asia was involved.

[Auckmid]

Yet religion is still here, there's been no world war over religious reasons as of yet. Thankfully there probably won't be. But, specifically because there won't be, people won't learn the folly of blindly following a religion. Having doubts is healthy, having doubts means you're sane.


That depends on what you define to be a world war. If you think a World War is defined to be one in which only developed nations engage in, which is basically WW1 and WW2, then your world view is extremely limited.

The "world" is not just defined as USA + Europe + Japan/China.

No true world war has occurred yet.
I gotta question. If the Axis hada won the war, do you think Hitler woulda been content to let all neutral countries roam free? Just because some countries were neutral doesn't mean they were unaffected.

USA had an amazingly small part in both World Wars. The only reason that they participated in WW2 was because the Japanese attacked them, other wise they would have remained neutral. The Allies probably still would have won without the USA's help because Russia was massacring the German army.

And, as D.R. put down, u missed a load of countries (Canada, Mexico, Australia, North Africa, many Asian countries)

[FalseTruth]

I just wanted to point out that the "world wars" didn't actually include the entire world.

[Zack]

Thats nitpicking FalseTruth, the fact is the majority of the world was involved...

[Nick]

I just wanted to point out that the "world wars" didn't actually include the entire world.


The remaining "peaceful" regions during WWII are colonies of the warring countries.

[WaWMoose]

I just read a news story I lost holf of now that basically stated years and years ago, what people thought God 'made' or 'controlled', but whenever the science behind that particulat subject was proved and we knew God had nothing to do with it, the possibility of a God keeps getting pushed back. It said over the years the scientific theory had improved and been corrected and even proved to an extent, made massive progress, while the possibiliy of a God kept getting pushed back further further down. Wish i could find the paper >(.

Something i thought of myself. Theory > Belief, Because a Theory at least has a scientific background and has been based on scientific observations. While a belief is nothing more the an illusion the something is true. This is about Creationism vs Evolution btw :)


As for me, even if science could explain certain phenomenon, it still does not disprove god/gods/deities/spirits. Why do we only associate them with magics and unknowns? Why not 'godly' scientific knowledge?


Because there is no such thing as "Godly scientific knowlege", the only science found in most religious books is as simple as there are fish in the sea. And everything we know is contradictory to what religions are saying.

The point is, if there is nothing to quite yet prove 100% the God doesn't exist, there is nothing that 100% proves a God exists either. So instead of asking Science to prove that God doesn't exist, ask Religion that a God does in fact exist.

The facts that are present right now disapprove of some of the things that Religions imply (Sun does not rotate around Earth, no one can come back from the dead etc.). So if Science is already disapproving of things that Religions imply, why would we not believe Science over Religion?

The way I look at it is Religion is way to control naive groups of people, and gain power through it (look at what the Dalai Lama is trying to do, Saudi Arabia, etc.).

[Nick]

Scientology perhaps? Haha...

"Sun does not rotate around Earth" - misinterpretation?

"no one can come back from the dead" - yet to be disproved!

[S.A.S.Cnl.Alpha]

I gotta know, how did this turn into a WW2 thread and
who else voted apatheism
just don' giv' a fuk

[CaressMeTenderly]

Psalm 14:1: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

All atheists are evil.

[Nick]

And thus atheists will give their own quotes, and claim theists are delusional.

Name calling leads us nowhere...

[CaressMeTenderly]

It's in the book of God himself. It can't be wrong.

[Nick]

It's in the book of God himself. It can't be wrong.


Err... atheists do not believe in God, and thus the book of God, and thus do not accept that themselves are evil, and insist that theists are...

If you are free, do read the previous posts on religion, the ones before WWII.

[CaressMeTenderly]

It's in the book of God himself. It can't be wrong.


Err... atheists do not believe in God, and thus the book of God, and thus do not accept that themselves are evil, and insist that theists are...

If you are free, do read the previous posts on religion, the ones before WWII.


You heard it here first. Atheists claim that anyone who believes in God is evil. You've just insulted the majority of the world's population and called them evil. Maybe you should look in the mirror?


Revelation 21:8: But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.



Just remember what path you embark upon.

[Nick]

No flaming please.

Short explanation of each option:

Theism

Trinitarianism: The belief of one deity with three forms. Mostly held by Christians.
Monotheism: The belief of a single deity. For example, Christians, Muslims, and Jews.
Polytheism: The belief in multiple, distinct deities. For example, Hindus.
Pantheism: The belief that the universe and god are one and the same.

Antitheism: The belief that there is a deity, but that they are evil and are to be fought and not worshipped.

Agnosticism: The belief that there may be a deity, but are uncertain about the matter.

Atheism: The belief that no deities exist.

Apatheism: A lack of opinion on the matter.



Compare Antitheism and Atheism.
I only know that Atheist and Agnostist use the word "delusional, etc." but never "evil". As for reasons, please read the above posts. I am just repeating what they have said.
Again, name callings doesn't bring us closer.

Anyway... our discussion are not going too well. This thread might get locked... so we should stop.

[CaressMeTenderly]

I see before me two faiths of similar manner, in that both followers of them are destined for eternity in the pit of fire for their defiance of the one and true God.

[WaWMoose]

"no one can come back from the dead" - yet to be disproved!


.................................................. ......................

[Akasora]

In fact, agnoticism is more like " I don't know if there is a god or not, but I sure know that I will never acquire this knowledge. In conclusion, it is useless for me to think about it, and I should at least not dedicate my life for it's cause. "

[poolandr]

It may sound cliché but there is to little evidence for me to believe in any form of god or higher power.