Politics

[oops_ur_dead]

This is me, according to The Political Compass (http://politicalcompass.org/):
http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-7.75&soc=-6.92
I am mostly libertarian, though not fully anarchist. I believe the government should exist to do things that help the citizens, such as restricting powers of corporations and exploiters of society. I am also against parliamentarianism, and believe that decisions that affect the people should be voted on by the people, and not elected figureheads that loosely fit your ideas. I also believe in distributing wealth and pay based on how much good someone brings to society, and not some sort of wage system.
I'm interested to see what you guys are. Would be nice if you took the test above and linked the results.

[MrSmarter]

Hummmm, I end up at -0.74, 1.38.

[FalseTruth]

http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-4.75&soc=-5.03

Very close to Dalai Lama: http://politicalcompass.org/images/internationalchart.gif

I feel like there are right and wrong answers to this. If you end up in the same place as Hitler or Stalin, you might want to rethink your political mindset.

[McJesus]

http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-4.38&soc=-3.38

I'm less extreme than you but some of the questions are stupid and not even political since I usually am in the top left quadrant. Things like censoring your sex life and religion shouldn't even be political but the U.S hasn't moved past that stupid crap. I don't like how a lot of the questions were framed generally.

[Spy]

I am not so extreme according to that survey. But then, all surveys have their imperfections.


http://booksgraduate.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/pcgraphpng-php.png



Plato is a Right Libertarian, according to the website.

[S.A.S.Cnl.Alpha]

http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-4.12&soc=1.44

[Rumpel1408]

http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-6.88&soc=-0.56

[Zack]

http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-4.50&soc=-2.36

[chocopaw]

It's funny, I remember taking that test 7 years ago.
This time I got -8/-8,21, but don't take that too seriously, many questions can not be answered adequately from a fundamentally critical standpoint. :)

[Raiden]

http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-4.12&soc=1.28

Anything below the horizontal line is naive at best. If you live with the assumption that people know what they need, you are very wrong. The large majority of people are stupid, careless, selfish, and what these people want is ultimately not what they need.

The economics on the other hand have a similar problem, however it is more subtle, and harder to realize. The innate corruption and degeneration that mankind brings make it not possible to have a world where everyone works according to his ability and is happy with what he's given. There will always be the smartass who believe he deserves more than everyone else, the jealous who envy those who are luckier, the greedy who will keep his doing secret because he doesn't want to share. A fully communist world is utopian.

[Spy]

I have many problems then.

[chocopaw]

Raiden you just write elitist and ahistorical bullshit without any proving. And of course Communism is utopian, as it is not realized yet.

[philie]

I find that many questions are misleading, one of them rephrases the same thing, and other imply about what feels morally right vs what leads to overall better result (which is a morally right thing to strive for). It was a bit confusing.
http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-2.75&soc=-3.44

[Raiden]

Raiden you just write elitist and ahistorical bullshit without any proving. And of course Communism is utopian, as it is not realized yet.


Are you saying that all people love each other and they are so smart and kind to provide goodness for themselves and everyone else around them? How is this ahistorical?

Are you saying that one guy would agree to clean toilets while his friend becomes president? Are you saying that one guy would share his bread with the unemployed, regardless if they ever wanted to work in the first place? Are you saying that the heir of a rich guy will work because it's better for his society? How is this bullshit?

[oops_ur_dead]

http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-4.12&soc=1.28

Anything below the horizontal line is naive at best. If you live with the assumption that people know what they need, you are very wrong. The large majority of people are stupid, careless, selfish, and what these people want is ultimately not what they need.

That's because we have been raised in an authoritarian capitalist world where that is acceptable. Selflessness can be taught. Look at people like Pyotr Kropotkin, born a prince, but eventually becoming the intellectual leader of the anarcho-communist movement, or me, perfectly set to earn big bucks as a financial manager or an accountant, but instead choosing to focus my abilities into medicine.

[chocopaw]

Raiden you just write elitist and ahistorical bullshit without any proving. And of course Communism is utopian, as it is not realized yet.


Are you saying that all people love each other and they are so smart and kind to provide goodness for themselves and everyone else around them? How is this ahistorical?

Are you saying that one guy would agree to clean toilets while his friend becomes president? Are you saying that one guy would share his bread with the unemployed, regardless if they ever wanted to work in the first place? Are you saying that the heir of a rich guy will work because it's better for his society? How is this bullshit?


The problem is: You don't question why people act the way they do for one second, you just assume there is a (malevolent) "human nature" and that in all future humans will act the same blablabla. Everything around your questions is ahistorical, as you refuse to think beyond the borders of the western capitalistic society.
Why is there a president and a toiletcleaner? Why is a person unemployed, why do you have to get employed in the first place? Why can you inherit material wealth?

In a society based on private property and rivalry, men will of course act accordingly and in their own best interest, with quite unlikable results. Therefore the fundaments of this society have to be changed instead of whining about how evil mankind is.

Loving every human has nothing to do with this (although that might be quite nice), rational organisation has. Just eliminate the fact that particular interests have to face against each other.

And why don't you go ahead and just clean your own toilet? That'd be a nice beginning.

[Marcus]

http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=5.50&soc=-5.23

Interesting. This is honestly not as far right or libertarian than I would have thought, but apparently not. It's also surprising that I'm the only person in the bottom right, other than spy. o_O.

[Raiden]

That's because we have been raised in an authoritarian capitalist world where that is acceptable. Selflessness can be taught. Look at people like Pyotr Kropotkin, born a prince, but eventually becoming the intellectual leader of the anarcho-communist movement, or me, perfectly set to earn big bucks as a financial manager or an accountant, but instead choosing to focus my abilities into medicine.




The problem is: You don't question why people act the way they do for one second, you just assume there is a (malevolent) "human nature" and that in all future humans will act the same blablabla. Everything around your questions is ahistorical, as you refuse to think beyond the borders of the western capitalistic society.
Why is there a president and a toiletcleaner? Why is a person unemployed, why do you have to get employed in the first place? Why can you inherit material wealth?

In a society based on private property and rivalry, men will of course act accordingly and in their own best interest, with quite unlikable results. Therefore the fundaments of this society have to be changed instead of whining about how evil mankind is.

Loving every human has nothing to do with this (although that might be quite nice), rational organisation has. Just eliminate the fact that particular interests have to face against each other.

And why don't you go ahead and just clean your own toilet? That'd be a nice beginning.


I could simply answer with "good luck changing that" because we all know you won't be able to :) but i'll give a more indepth answer as to why things went this way. Humans are not "evil" but they are indeed selfish. Every living being is ultimately selfish and lives to make his own life better. And they are also stupid.
When there are not enough resources for everyone, you can be sure that those who got access to those resources will never, ever willingly share them with those who don't. That is because if you do so, you, your family, your nation will suffer greatly depending on that decision. Examples of people who gave up their - let's call them - birthrights in order to live in a better society are fewer than white flies. You gotta look at the grand scheme. It requires everyone to behave in order to have a perfect communist society, but just 1 wrong doer to fuck all up. What would you do then? Jail him? Or literally lynch him, since police, jailors, and judges are authority and they have no place in a perfect world.

If you don't like my president example, take any job which is even slightly better than toilet cleaning. Toilets will still need cleaning, and the guy who does that will envy people with better jobs forever. You cannot even organize turns, because people may be equal in terms of rights, but we all know they are not equal in terms of intellectual and physical skills. Try putting the toilet cleaner in place of the president and see what happens.

Capitalism was born because people with better skills deserve at least the chance to be better than their less gifted counterparts. Wages, when used properly, are an incentive to work harder and better. You improve yourself in order to be better, not to be on par with everyone else.
Then every system has its degeneration, and that's where corruption and family favors kicks in.

[chocopaw]

You still speak of nations, jobs and all those petty categories that are specific parts of the specific current state the western society is in, without realizing that they of course are part of the problem.

Selfishness is no obstacle, as it is the selfish part of any human that communists have to adress. And of course any free association of humans would have to deal with "wrongdoers" if they can not fix the reason of their wrongdoing, where's the problem with that? These are examples of the huge misconceptions you bring with you into this debate and on which you build your analysis of society. You seem to think of communism as some hippie fantasy and propably never have read or heard anything decent about the scientific fundament that is the marxist theory.


Capitalism was born because people with better skills deserve at least the chance to be better than their less gifted counterparts. Wages, when used properly, are an incentive to work harder and better. You improve yourself in order to be better, not to be on par with everyone else.
Then every system has its degeneration, and that's where corruption and family favors kicks in.

This is so naive, simplistic and just flat out wrong that even some wikipedia reading should fix some of your thoughts.

Unfortunately my link database of recommendable articles on this subject is entirely in german. I will look out for something in english. But I know that David Harvey is not too bad, maybe you want to check out something of him.

[Raiden]

If you admit wrongdoers, you admit authority. If you admit authority, you admit different job values, and that is exactly where your communist view of a perfect world fails big time. Contradict me, and you are stepping into capitalism. This is happening since the beginning of time. As a question in political compass implies "from everyone according to his abilities, to everyone according to his needs" is FUNDAMENTALLY a good idea, but it won't work. Ever.

[chocopaw]

If you admit wrongdoers, you admit authority. If you admit authority, you admit different job values

trololololol

[Auckmid]

http://politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=-3.25&soc=-2.77

I'm preaty much identical to Phille.
Also, Marcus, soon your going to start thinking and acting like Spy :o

[Raiden]

If you admit wrongdoers, you admit authority. If you admit authority, you admit different job values

trololololol


Yep that's basically what you are doing since the start of this argument, all you speak about is your ideal world instead of the actual world we're living in. Sorry mate :P

[Auckmid]

Oops, made a mistake, and can't insert :(. But anyway, I was -3.25/-2.77

[Rumpel1408]

Oops, made a mistake, and can't insert :(. But anyway, I was -3.25/-2.77


So you mean this:
http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-3.25&soc=-2.77

[chocopaw]

If you admit wrongdoers, you admit authority. If you admit authority, you admit different job values

trololololol


Yep that's basically what you are doing since the start of this argument, all you speak about is your ideal world instead of the actual world we're living in. Sorry mate :P


You actually believe that, don't you? :D


In a society based on private property and rivalry, men will of course act accordingly and in their own best interest, with quite unlikable results.

I'm the one who's suggesting that your analysis of the actual form of society is insufficient and that you should try to really explain why things are how they are. All you do is posting weird misconceptions about some idealized concepts that aren't even represented by anyone in this thread. xD
My last post was as it was because I don't see any point in argueing with you as long as you don't even really read what I write. But then again you propably aren't interested in that, as you fight your imaginary or maybe by some 16 year old revoluzzers held enemy viewpoints.

[Raiden]

You still speak of nations, jobs and all those petty categories that are specific parts of the specific current state the western society is in, without realizing that they of course are part of the problem.


So... you would like me to explain why there are nations and jobs and private property? I have alreadly partly done that, but that's not the point. The point is, this is the world we're living in, and my political views are strongly influenced by what is happening right now, as should be yours and everyone else's. The mere belief that you can change that in an acceptable amount of time so that you, your children, or even 10 generations after you can appreciate the difference is... utopian. As i said.

[chocopaw]

1. ... what did I do if not analysing the current politics? (see my self-quote)

2. "Being influenced by what is happening right now" does not equal complete affirmation of it. That you are doing exactly that is the reason why you're argumenting ahistorical.
You are the victim of a simple logical fallacy: "Because it is this way, it has to be this way." If you analyze past social systems and compare it with the current one, you will get a much more precise idea of how the whole shit works. :) The question if communism or whatever else is possible or not, and when it is possible, does not say one thing about the capitalistic society. That you called everything under the horizontal line naive is just laughable and... ahistorical.
And what do you have to argue about other peoples sexlife and concept of art. Those are the things that let you go under it. :)

3. You seem to use "utopian" in a pejorative way, which is kinda stupid, as it just says that it is a concept that is not realized yet. And by the way, your "your children and 10 generations" speech is propably what the french thought 1788. And the germans 1939. :)

[thisismyname]

Economic Left/Right: 6.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.87

Interesting. I thought I was in the bottom right, but more libertarian than that. Must be the result of my reservations about the Patriot Act easing a bit.

[Auckmid]

Oops, made a mistake, and can't insert :(. But anyway, I was -3.25/-2.77


So you mean this:
http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-3.25&soc=-2.77

Yeah, thats exactly what I got.

[WaWMoose]

my roots are from the middle east, and im canadian. and to be quiet honest, im alot more interested in the U.S. and Middle Eastern politics alot more than Canadian politics, they seem very one dimensional. heres my scale:

http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-1.38&soc=-4.56

[MrSmarter]

I'm the nearest to the center, what dose that mean?
(Read second post for my coords.)

[thisismyname]

I'm the nearest to the center, what dose that mean?
(Read second post for my coords.)


I suppose that means you can't make up your mind :). You are the most volatile swing voter imaginable.

[McJesus]

You guys seem so extreme, why does things have to be capitalism or socialism? People are amazingly intelligent and stupid at the same time in my eyes. Capitalism in itself is a flawed system and if left purely on its own we would all end up killing each other and becoming the next rapture (bioshock refrence ftw) but you can't work for free and expect people to be unselfish either. Really it comes down to a society having many good socialistic principals in order to suceed. You need taxes and you need people to pay for services like healthcare, police and education to list a few or else no one prospers and life becomes an economic dictatorship.

[thisismyname]

You guys seem so extreme, why does things have to be capitalism or socialism? People are amazingly intelligent and stupid at the same time in my eyes. Capitalism in itself is a flawed system and if left purely on its own we would all end up killing each other and becoming the next rapture (bioshock refrence ftw) but you can't work for free and expect people to be unselfish either. Really it comes down to a society having many good socialistic principals in order to suceed. You need taxes and you need people to pay for services like healthcare, police and education to list a few or else no one prospers and life becomes an economic dictatorship.


Most young people are naive extreme liberals. I blame public schools and colleges that are increasingly pushing tolerance of extreme views and brainwashing kids.

When this country was founded, taxes were to be used to pay for only three things: police, a judicial system, and national defense. Now it pays for hundreds of things. Yes, you need taxes, but unfortunately most people are taught to hate corporations and the rich and thus don't understand the negative business implications of increased taxes.

I could go one with some libertarian rant, but its late, so I'll leave it at that for now..

[Dark.Revenant]

What about roads and national parks? Just two of a bunch of stuff taxes pay for.

Schools don't push extreme views unless they're in extreme areas. In very far-right areas, schools teach very conservative agendas. In very far-left areas, schools teach very liberal agendas.

They're two sides of the SAME COIN. The fight between 'liberals' (democrats are actually slightly right and republicans are further right) and conservatives is a false conflict that degrades the quality of our politics.

[thisismyname]

What about roads and national parks? Just two of a bunch of stuff taxes pay for.

Schools don't push extreme views unless they're in extreme areas. In very far-right areas, schools teach very conservative agendas. In very far-left areas, schools teach very liberal agendas.

They're two sides of the SAME COIN. The fight between 'liberals' (democrats are actually slightly right and republicans are further right) and conservatives is a false conflict that degrades the quality of our politics.


I did say we need some taxes for ESSENTIAL things that aren't practical for privatization. That's why you don't see me all the way to the bottom right on that graph. But, national parks could easily be funded and managed by private companies. So could roads...but yes, I agree that it wouldn't be a good idea to make people pay for access to a private highway system (we already do with taxes though). The fact is, anything the government can manage, private companies can manage better. That includes health care, despite what Michael Moore leads you to believe. That is a fact that has been proven time and time again. It doesn't take repeated viewing of Fox News discussion to understand why this is.

In regards to schools pushing politics, I'm talking about my Environmental Science teacher pushing kids in his class to sign a petition against Bush's social security reform a few years back. Or public schools in California now REQUIRING gay sex be taught in the classroom. Or kids chanting some absurd worship call for Obama. It is a known fact that the vast majority of public schools have a liberal leaning that they push to kids.

Unfortunately, given our state of politics, yes, both the Republicons and Democraps are dropping the ball. The far right scares me almost as much as the far left. But it's not the conservative ideology that's wrong, it's the mismanagement by our politicians.

[oops_ur_dead]

You guys seem so extreme, why does things have to be capitalism or socialism? People are amazingly intelligent and stupid at the same time in my eyes. Capitalism in itself is a flawed system and if left purely on its own we would all end up killing each other and becoming the next rapture (bioshock refrence ftw) but you can't work for free and expect people to be unselfish either. Really it comes down to a society having many good socialistic principals in order to suceed. You need taxes and you need people to pay for services like healthcare, police and education to list a few or else no one prospers and life becomes an economic dictatorship.


Most young people are naive extreme liberals. I blame public schools and colleges that are increasingly pushing tolerance of extreme views and brainwashing kids.

When this country was founded, taxes were to be used to pay for only three things: police, a judicial system, and national defense. Now it pays for hundreds of things. Yes, you need taxes, but unfortunately most people are taught to hate corporations and the rich and thus don't understand the negative business implications of increased taxes.

I could go one with some libertarian rant, but its late, so I'll leave it at that for now..

We didn't learn shit about politics at school. If anything, my school is conservative.

[McJesus]

You guys seem so extreme, why does things have to be capitalism or socialism? People are amazingly intelligent and stupid at the same time in my eyes. Capitalism in itself is a flawed system and if left purely on its own we would all end up killing each other and becoming the next rapture (bioshock refrence ftw) but you can't work for free and expect people to be unselfish either. Really it comes down to a society having many good socialistic principals in order to suceed. You need taxes and you need people to pay for services like healthcare, police and education to list a few or else no one prospers and life becomes an economic dictatorship.


Most young people are naive extreme liberals. I blame public schools and colleges that are increasingly pushing tolerance of extreme views and brainwashing kids.

When this country was founded, taxes were to be used to pay for only three things: police, a judicial system, and national defense. Now it pays for hundreds of things. Yes, you need taxes, but unfortunately most people are taught to hate corporations and the rich and thus don't understand the negative business implications of increased taxes.

I could go one with some libertarian rant, but its late, so I'll leave it at that for now..


First off most schools have the attitude of "I'm not touching this shit with a 10 foot pole" when it comes to taking sides. Conservatives just think if people dont teach things exactly their way then it makes them evil and liberal. Plus I'm Canadian and our conservatives are more liberal than your democrats and I can honestly say compared to us your country kind of sucks when it comes to giving rich corporations way too much free reign over everything and it screws your society over. Take health insurance and how people get totally screwed over because of bullshit "prexisting conditions" and anything else they can do to avoid paying up. Also lack of regulation is the reason your economy crashed and burned in 2008 and our regulations made us the last western country to fall into a recession and that we have allready recovered way more jobs than the U.S. Corporations are essential but you need measures to keep them in check or they end up ruining things for everyone because they by definiton only care about making money.

Regulations aren't evil and taxes should go to paying things. You overlook the key fact our society is better now than it was back then.

[oops_ur_dead]

Plus I'm Canadian and our conservatives are more liberal than your democrats

No, they really aren't. In recent years, the Conservatives have become much more like the Republicans.

[Landstander]

<img src="http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-3.50&soc=-1.28">

[thisismyname]

First off most schools have the attitude of "I'm not touching this shit with a 10 foot pole" when it comes to taking sides. Conservatives just think if people dont teach things exactly their way then it makes them evil and liberal. Plus I'm Canadian and our conservatives are more liberal than your democrats and I can honestly say compared to us your country kind of sucks when it comes to giving rich corporations way too much free reign over everything and it screws your society over. Take health insurance and how people get totally screwed over because of bullshit "prexisting conditions" and anything else they can do to avoid paying up. Also lack of regulation is the reason your economy crashed and burned in 2008 and our regulations made us the last western country to fall into a recession and that we have allready recovered way more jobs than the U.S. Corporations are essential but you need measures to keep them in check or they end up ruining things for everyone because they by definiton only care about making money.

Regulations aren't evil and taxes should go to paying things. You overlook the key fact our society is better now than it was back then.


Well, you're from Canada, that explains it. I guess that makes you a pro on US schools, huh?

You are right, Canada has always been way more loony liberal than America, and we have been on our way there for the better part of six decades now. And, once again, despite what Michael Moore professes, it isn't unregulated big business that got this country into the shithole, it was liberal tax, pork, and spend politics from liberal Washington, not to mention countless unneccessary EPA mandates and regulations designed to "stimulate the economy" yet have done nothing but lead to a complete collapse of the housing industry and soon, the lowering of our AAA bond rating.

But Canadians can talk, as long as America is there to defend them while they wait in lottery lines for shitty healthcare.

[oops_ur_dead]

But Canadians can talk, as long as America is there to defend them while they wait in lottery lines for shitty healthcare.

I laughed for 3 minutes straight. You can be funny sometimes, George Bush.

[thisismyname]

But Canadians can talk, as long as America is there to defend them while they wait in lottery lines for shitty healthcare.

I laughed for 3 minutes straight. You can be funny sometimes, George Bush.


Ah, the usual liberal retort..blame Bush. I havn't heard that one before.

I'm no fan of Bush. He caved in to liberals and screwed up both warfronts in the Middle East. I'm just pointing out that Canada has nothing but a bunch of oil and the freedom to blather liberal bullshit, courtesy of us. No patriotism here; just facts. Sorry some can't deal with it.

[McJesus]

Plus I'm Canadian and our conservatives are more liberal than your democrats

No, they really aren't. In recent years, the Conservatives have become much more like the Republicans.


LALALALA I'm trying to drown out the sound of a conservative majority LALALALA. Still better than republicans, they would get voted out in a heartbeat if they even tried to pull some of the shit the republicans pull.

[McJesus]

Well, you're from Canada, that explains it. I guess that makes you a pro on US schools, huh?

You are right, Canada has always been way more loony liberal than America, and we have been on our way there for the better part of six decades now. And, once again, despite what Michael Moore professes, it isn't unregulated big business that got this country into the shithole, it was liberal tax, pork, and spend politics from liberal Washington, not to mention countless unneccessary EPA mandates and regulations designed to "stimulate the economy" yet have done nothing but lead to a complete collapse of the housing industry and soon, the lowering of our AAA bond rating.

But Canadians can talk, as long as America is there to defend them while they wait in lottery lines for shitty healthcare.


Let me explain why our economy doesn't suck, our banks are regulated and yours gamble with morgages on if they will default or not. Our government actually did a smart approach to solving the problem vs you guys just threw money at the banks and didn't do anything to regulate them. Why are your banks doing this? Because they can! Obama is more conservative than people realize because he just caves in on everything and yet you guys still make him out to be the boogieman. He is a failure of a president for not doing enough and waiting until there is a debt crysis to do things like end the bush tax cuts which should have been slashed as soon as he got into office.

As for healthcare I just laugh at that, you guys have no idea how our healthcare system works and believe me it is better than what the vast majority of americans get.

[WaWMoose]

LOL im sorry hadnt seen this before my post.. i realize u said ealier it was liberal tax and policies that made the US an economic shithole.. you are either a complete moron, or completely ignorant, end of story there. healthcare: Canada is 30th, US is 37th, sure its not THAT much of a difference, but u cant any arguement that says urs is better when the WHO says its not. both educational systems are terrible, i studied one year in the Middle East, and the math i learned there back then in third grade, i learned here in Canada in 8th grade, so yea.. and the only reason we're not in 'wars' except afghanistan, is because our governement has its own oil, that it doesnt need to steal from the poorer less powerful countries (personally i saw no weapons of mass destruction found in iraq, did u?)

honestly i think the US will complpetely collapse economically in about 20, it'll be sad to watch, but if you're gunna have people like Hermain Cain and Michelle Bachmann running for president..you're kinda asking for it.

[thisismyname]

LOL im sorry hadnt seen this before my post.. i realize u said ealier it was liberal tax and policies that made the US an economic shithole.. you are either a complete moron, or completely ignorant, end of story there. healthcare: Canada is 30th, US is 37th, sure its not THAT much of a difference, but u cant any arguement that says urs is better when the WHO says its not. both educational systems are terrible, i studied one year in the Middle East, and the math i learned there back then in third grade, i learned here in Canada in 8th grade, so yea.. and the only reason we're not in 'wars' except afghanistan, is because our governement has its own oil, that it doesnt need to steal from the poorer less powerful countries (personally i saw no weapons of mass destruction found in iraq, did u?)

honestly i think the US will complpetely collapse economically in about 20, it'll be sad to watch, but if you're gunna have people like Hermain Cain and Michelle Bachmann running for president..you're kinda asking for it.


Honestly, the Democraps could literally walk up and molest you kids and you'd still blame conservatives.

And, let me guess, you're going to tell me Wall Street and the banking industry just raped our economy on its own? Yes, I admit there was mismanagement from hell, but that wasn't the core reason. It was Clinton who aggresively pushed policies making it easier for low income individuals who can't afford to pay off the loan get a home. The Federal Reserve also added to this damage by aggressively lowering interest rates, enticing this bad behavior with access to cheap borrowing. As much as I don't like Bush, at least he had the sense to see through the impending collapse in 2006, but couldn't get through to a Democratically controlled congress with Barney Frank lying his ass off on the floor saying "we don't have a banking crisis. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are healthy as can be." The facts are the facts.

No shit both educational systems are terrible. That's because public education is a bloody fucking mess and the liberal answer is to throw more money at a failing system.

Herman Cain I like. Michelle Bachman can blow me (literally).

[oops_ur_dead]

Plus I'm Canadian and our conservatives are more liberal than your democrats

No, they really aren't. In recent years, the Conservatives have become much more like the Republicans.


LALALALA I'm trying to drown out the sound of a conservative majority LALALALA. Still better than republicans, they would get voted out in a heartbeat if they even tried to pull some of the shit the republicans pull.

Saying the Conservatives are better than the Republicans is like saying that Pol Pot was better than Stalin.

[WaWMoose]

Herman Cain I like. Michelle Bachman can blow me (literally).

You like a guy who claims he is a great follower of the Consitution, when he probably hasn't even read it?? really?
Here's just some reasons why this cuntbag would be the worst President of the United States EVER.
1. Everytime he "quotes" the Consitution, he actually quotes the Declaration of Independance, i'm canadian and i know this, how does he not?
2. He thinks that a Mosque being built in a community, can be stopped if the Community wants..where's your freedom of religion at huh?? He also thinks that a Muslim Mosque combines 'Church and State', is he retarded? a Mosque is for praying, not to discuss economy and how to enfoce 'Sharia Law' on other people lol..trust me i know, i used to be muslim and have went many times with my dad before i left Islam...
3. He wants to not allow any Muslims in his government, freedom of religion yet again.. and he also wants to make muslims take some test to ensure their loyalty to the US Constitution... READ THE FUCKING CONSTITUTION FIRST.
4. HE NEEDS TO READ THE FUCKING CONSTITUTION BEFORE YOU QUOTE IT.
5. HE NEEDS TO READ THE FUCKING CONSTITUTION. DONT FUCKING QUOTE "LIVE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPINESS" WHEN ITS THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDANCE.

This (insert word here that means racist against a certain religion) scumbag's ignorance is beyond me... and your Clinton arguement, i'll let that speak for itself..

[thisismyname]

Herman Cain I like. Michelle Bachman can blow me (literally).

You like a guy who claims he is a great follower of the Consitution, when he probably hasn't even read it?? really?
Here's just some reasons why this cuntbag would be the worst President of the United States EVER.
1. Everytime he "quotes" the Consitution, he actually quotes the Declaration of Independance, i'm canadian and i know this, how does he not?
2. He thinks that a Mosque being built in a community, can be stopped if the Community wants..where's your freedom of religion at huh?? He also thinks that a Muslim Mosque combines 'Church and State', is he retarded? a Mosque is for praying, not to discuss economy and how to enfoce 'Sharia Law' on other people lol..trust me i know, i used to be muslim and have went many times with my dad before i left Islam...
3. He wants to not allow any Muslims in his government, freedom of religion yet again.. and he also wants to make muslims take some test to ensure their loyalty to the US Constitution... READ THE FUCKING CONSTITUTION FIRST.
4. HE NEEDS TO READ THE FUCKING CONSTITUTION BEFORE YOU QUOTE IT.
5. HE NEEDS TO READ THE FUCKING CONSTITUTION. DONT FUCKING QUOTE "LIVE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPINESS" WHEN ITS THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDANCE.

This (insert word here that means racist against a certain religion) scumbag's ignorance is beyond me... and your Clinton arguement, i'll let that speak for itself..


Apparentely Obama didn't read the constitution either when he decided to require citizens to buy insurance under Obamacare at risk of imprisonment...

Herman Cain never said he wouldn't allow Muslims in government. He simply stated what most of us feel in that he would question their intentions, as he should. I don't want to persecute Muslims, as I believe most Muslim citizens do not have Shariah intentions, but we have to at least question it. I believe he was making the point that we are being too politically correct in this country. As for the mosque thing...I believe in freedom of religion as much as the next guy, but give me a fucking break if you don't think building a mosque in NYC near Ground Zero was anything but a Shariah agenda.

And what about my Clinton argument? It does indeed speak for itself. The failure of liberal politics that is.

[thisismyname]

I don't know who's responsible for changing my name like that, but its just fucking hilarious :P

I have but one response:

Mylo the Cat Responds to Haters (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fJoWAdW8do#)

[WaWMoose]

Herman Cain I like. Michelle Bachman can blow me (literally).

muslim and have went many times with my dad before i left Islam...
3. He wants to not allow any Muslims in his government, freedom of religion yet again.. and he also wants to make muslims take some test to ensure their loyalty to the US Constitution... READ THE FUCKING CONSTITUTION FIRST.
4. HE NEEDS TO READ THE FUCKING CONSTITUTION BEFORE YOU QUOTE IT.
5. HE NEEDS TO READ THE FUCKING CONSTITUTION. DONT FUCKING QUOTE "LIVE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPINESS" WHEN ITS THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDANCE.

This (insert word here that means racist against a certain religion) scumbag's ignorance is beyond me... and your Clinton arguement, i'll let that speak for itself..


Apparentely Obama didn't read the constitution either when he decided to require citizens to buy insurance under Obamacare at risk of imprisonment...

Herman Cain never said he wouldn't allow Muslims in government. He simply stated what most of us feel in that he would question their intentions, as he should. I don't want to persecute Muslims, as I believe most Muslim citizens do not have Shariah intentions, but we have to at least question it. I believe he was making the point that we are being too politically correct in this country. As for the mosque thing...I believe in freedom of religion as much as the next guy, but give me a fucking break if you don't think building a mosque in NYC near Ground Zero was anything but a Shariah agenda.

And what about my Clinton argument? It does indeed speak for itself. The failure of liberal politics that is.


"We are too politically correct", sorry just found that funny.. First i wasn't talking about the Mosque by Ground Zero (which is perfectly fine btw) and i'm not gunna argue with you about that. I was talking about a new mosque being built in Tennesee, where some members of the community don't want it to be built there. PLEASE know what you're talking about before you respond to me. Secondly, where is your defense on his knowledge os the Constitution lol, there isnt any defence, hes just as ignorant as most other republicans (no offense, becuz i know some damn smart and imformed republicans). Thirdly, you seen his interview on Glenn Becks's show? watch the part where he answers his muslim comments and then tell me that what hes saying doesnt go against the first amendment (u should probably read that on ur way too), heres a video for ya to watch. And finally please PLEASE i beg you to educate yourself before you speak, Ignorance is what is ruining the GOP, I'd loooove to see some GOP candidates win the next election, but people like Herman Cain is an ignorant assbag. Just so you know, i'd rooting for Ron Paul next election, i'd even like to see Mitt Romney replace Obama, but not this waste of a human being that is herman cain.

[WaWMoose]

Listen to this if you disagree with the mosque at Ground Zero. Ron Paul Right On Ground Zero 'Mosque' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wur6BH5i0so#)
This is a true man, who can lead a country.

[oops_ur_dead]

As for the mosque thing...I believe in freedom of religion as much as the next guy, but give me a fucking break if you don't think building a mosque in NYC near Ground Zero was anything but a Shariah agenda.

The KKK, a Christian organization, killed just as many people, if not more, than the terrorist attacks at 9/11. Should churches be banned from areas with KKK prominence?
Also,
Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No 'Ground Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpT2Muxoo0#)

[WaWMoose]

As for the mosque thing...I believe in freedom of religion as much as the next guy, but give me a fucking break if you don't think building a mosque in NYC near Ground Zero was anything but a Shariah agenda.

The KKK, a Christian organization, killed just as many people, if not more, than the terrorist attacks at 9/11. Should churches be banned from areas with KKK prominence?


Thank youuuuuu, finally someone with some sence :)

[TheJackofSpades]

There are a few too many loaded questions in this test in my opinion. Like the one that inquires on whether a one-party state is more efficient in terms of speed of law passing.

Yeah, it is, but it also cuts both ways.

[TheJackofSpades]

As for the mosque thing...I believe in freedom of religion as much as the next guy, but give me a fucking break if you don't think building a mosque in NYC near Ground Zero was anything but a Shariah agenda.

The KKK, a Christian organization, killed just as many people, if not more, than the terrorist attacks at 9/11. Should churches be banned from areas with KKK prominence?

It'd be fairer to call it a protestant organization... seeing as how they are strongly anti-Catholicism.

[thisismyname]

Fair enough. You are entitled to your opinion. At least you are sensible enough to consider Romney or Paul as a candidate. Personally, I obviously like what Paul says on economics, but he's about as electable as a tree stump.

No candidate in this race is perfect. I just happen to vote for the lesser of the evils. Social issues are important, but we need fucking jobs and the Democraps are not getting us there any faster than your favorite former president punching bag.

Change my fucking name back already...

[MrSmarter]

"We are too politically correct", sorry just found that funny.. First i wasn't talking about the Mosque by Ground Zero (which is perfectly fine btw) and i'm not gunna argue with you about that. I was talking about a new mosque being built in Tennesee, where some members of the community don't want it to be built there. PLEASE know what you're talking about before you respond to me. Secondly, where is your defense on his knowledge os the Constitution lol, there isnt any defence, hes just as ignorant as most other republicans (no offense, becuz i know some damn smart and imformed republicans). Thirdly, you seen his interview on Glenn Becks's show? watch the part where he answers his muslim comments and then tell me that what hes saying doesnt go against the first amendment (u should probably read that on ur way too), heres a video for ya to watch. And finally please PLEASE i beg you to educate yourself before you speak, Ignorance is what is ruining the GOP, I'd loooove to see some GOP candidates win the next election, but people like Herman Cain is an ignorant assbag. Just so you know, i'd rooting for Ron Paul next election, i'd even like to see Mitt Romney replace Obama, but not this waste of a human being that is herman cain.

That mosque in TN, I remember the debate about it, it was in the new a while back.
I live in TN btw. (Cleveland)

[WaWMoose]

Whoever keeps changing this guy's name (Donald Trump atm) is a fucking hero lol
too funny XD

[thisismyname]

Yeah, he's so clever I just had to shit myself. Donald Trump...yeah he's such a major player in politics now isn't he? Whoever this guy is, he has nothing to back himself up, so he resorts to lame childish bullshit.

And "WawMoose", I think its pretty fucking rediculous that you support someone like Ron Paul, seeing as how you think of these left-leaning posters as your heroes. I think you're confused. Ron Paul is the quintissential anti-liberal and anti-big government.

And for your information you tards, I never said I support banning churches, or mosques, or whatever religious crap people want to put up. I simply pointed out that MAYBE Herman Cain's statements were misinterpreted, and that people intentions in government should be questioned.

[oops_ur_dead]

Yeah, he's so clever I just had to shit myself. Donald Trump...yeah he's such a major player in politics now isn't he? Whoever this guy is, he has nothing to back himself up, so he resorts to lame childish bullshit.

And "WawMoose", I think its pretty fucking rediculous that you support someone like Ron Paul, seeing as how you think of these left-leaning posters as your heroes. I think you're confused. Ron Paul is the quintissential anti-liberal and anti-big government.

And for your information you tards, I never said I support banning churches, or mosques, or whatever religious crap people want to put up. I simply pointed out that MAYBE Herman Cain's statements were misinterpreted, and that people intentions in government should be questioned.

> Implying that left-leaning governments support big government.

[S.A.S.Cnl.Alpha]

Hey MrSmarter, how do you feel about that newly passed law in TN where if you post an offensive image, it is considered breaking the law? I think it was passed about a month or two ago.

[thisismyname]

Yeah, he's so clever I just had to shit myself. Donald Trump...yeah he's such a major player in politics now isn't he? Whoever this guy is, he has nothing to back himself up, so he resorts to lame childish bullshit.

And "WawMoose", I think its pretty fucking rediculous that you support someone like Ron Paul, seeing as how you think of these left-leaning posters as your heroes. I think you're confused. Ron Paul is the quintissential anti-liberal and anti-big government.

And for your information you tards, I never said I support banning churches, or mosques, or whatever religious crap people want to put up. I simply pointed out that MAYBE Herman Cain's statements were misinterpreted, and that people intentions in government should be questioned.

> Implying that left-leaning governments support big government.


Well no shit. WTF do you think they support? A "left-leaning" or "liberal" government by definition supports great emphasis on governmental control of the free market. So..you're saying you don't understand what left means?

Well then, read up or something.

[oops_ur_dead]

Yeah, he's so clever I just had to shit myself. Donald Trump...yeah he's such a major player in politics now isn't he? Whoever this guy is, he has nothing to back himself up, so he resorts to lame childish bullshit.

And "WawMoose", I think its pretty fucking rediculous that you support someone like Ron Paul, seeing as how you think of these left-leaning posters as your heroes. I think you're confused. Ron Paul is the quintissential anti-liberal and anti-big government.

And for your information you tards, I never said I support banning churches, or mosques, or whatever religious crap people want to put up. I simply pointed out that MAYBE Herman Cain's statements were misinterpreted, and that people intentions in government should be questioned.

> Implying that left-leaning governments support big government.


Well no shit. WTF do you think they support? A "left-leaning" or "liberal" government by definition supports great emphasis on governmental control of the free market. So..you're saying you don't understand what left means?

Well then, read up or something.

Are you high? Communism at its purest cannot have a government. It goes against the whole ideology.

[thisismyname]

Yeah, he's so clever I just had to shit myself. Donald Trump...yeah he's such a major player in politics now isn't he? Whoever this guy is, he has nothing to back himself up, so he resorts to lame childish bullshit.

And "WawMoose", I think its pretty fucking rediculous that you support someone like Ron Paul, seeing as how you think of these left-leaning posters as your heroes. I think you're confused. Ron Paul is the quintissential anti-liberal and anti-big government.

And for your information you tards, I never said I support banning churches, or mosques, or whatever religious crap people want to put up. I simply pointed out that MAYBE Herman Cain's statements were misinterpreted, and that people intentions in government should be questioned.

> Implying that left-leaning governments support big government.


Well no shit. WTF do you think they support? A "left-leaning" or "liberal" government by definition supports great emphasis on governmental control of the free market. So..you're saying you don't understand what left means?

Well then, read up or something.

Are you high? Communism at its purest cannot have a government. It goes against the whole ideology.


You are a complete dumbass. I think this speaks for itself...

Tell that to the survivors of the Tianaman Square massacre. Communism, in its "purest" form, results in zero freedom and government control over every aspect of society. It also results in a reality where nobody is allowed to excel to the best of his/her ability, because everyone is held down BY THE GOVERNMENT to a standard of bullshit equalization.

Socialism is half of the way to this nightmare. Liberals in America are about half of the way to Socialism.

[oops_ur_dead]

Hi I think I know what Communism is let me give examples from China.

[Dark.Revenant]

China calls itself Communism but it's really just fascism mixed with some socialist facades. A true Communism will probably never happen because it requires those with power or potential for power to give it up or die.

[thisismyname]

Hi I think I know what Communism is let me give examples from China.


Was that a sorry attempt at sarcasm? Or maybe you can't provide any examples yourself to support your fringe viewpoint? I'm fully aware of what communism "is" and you sir have no fucking idea if you are stupid enough to say that Communism doesn't involve government. Communism is ALL government, ALL the time.

Some of you guys are brainwashed. But I guess I would expect that from the gaming community. Communism is a "command economy", regulated by the actions of the "commune" collective. WTF do you think a government is? It's the actions of the collective rather than individual decision.

[Envy]

I got a right libertarian :D

[oops_ur_dead]

Hi I think I know what Communism is let me give examples from China.


Was that a sorry attempt at sarcasm? Or maybe you can't provide any examples yourself to support your fringe viewpoint? I'm fully aware of what communism "is" and you sir have no fucking idea if you are stupid enough to say that Communism doesn't involve government. Communism is ALL government, ALL the time.

Some of you guys are brainwashed. But I guess I would expect that from the gaming community. Communism is a "command economy", regulated by the actions of the "commune" collective. WTF do you think a government is? It's the actions of the collective rather than individual decision.


Communism is a sociopolitical movement that aims for a classless and stateless society structured upon common ownership of the means of production, free access to articles of consumption, and the end of wage labour and private property in the means of production and real estate.
Tell me, how can a stateless society have a government?
Hint: If you think China, the Soviet Union, North Korea, and Vietnam are communist, then your definition of communism is wrong and perverted.
More reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-communism

[thisismyname]

Tell me, how can a stateless society have a government?
Hint: If you think China, the Soviet Union, North Korea, and Vietnam are communist, then your definition of communism is wrong and perverted.
More reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-communism


I think you are a little conflicted here. First of all, there is a difference between Anarchism and Communism. Anarchism is in fact the notion of no state or government force, but this spin on it involves the Marxist ideal of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need." It doesn't make sense. How the hell can this ideal be realized with no government? Individual freedom involves being able to CHOOSE what you WANT to do in life, regardless of its impact on society. This ideal suggests that people should be controlled so that they do what the government believes is best for society based on ability and need.

This "Anarchist Communism" ideal, as portrayed here, is gobbledygook because it doesn't make logical sense that you could get a person who believes in "individualism" to fit the Marxist ideal.

[Darth Sand]

What literature from Marx did you read? You seem to know so much more about his ideals than I.

[oops_ur_dead]

I think you are a little conflicted here. First of all, there is a difference between Anarchism and Communism.

Agreed.


Anarchism is in fact the notion of no state or government force, but this spin on it involves the Marxist ideal of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need." It doesn't make sense. How the hell can this ideal be realized with no government?

Read The Conquest of Bread by Pyotr Kropotkin.


Individual freedom involves being able to CHOOSE what you WANT to do in life, regardless of its impact on society. This ideal suggests that people should be controlled so that they do what the government believes is best for society based on ability and need.

If you think that people are purely selfish and hate everyone else, and only do things that benefit only themselves, then you're a sociopath.


This "Anarchist Communism" ideal, as portrayed here, is gobbledygook because it doesn't make logical sense that you could get a person who believes in "individualism" to fit the Marxist ideal.

First of all, Marxism is not communism. And to actually answer the question, read my points above.

[Spy]

Sociopath to most, but in fact genius.

[thisismyname]

To oops:

I didn't say Marxism was the same thing as Communism, but that the notion of "Anarchist Communism" is based on a Marxist ideal. It even demonstrates that in this Wikipedia article by quoting him.

You obviously completely misinterpreted what I said. How does a libertarian viewpoint (that I share) have anything to do with thinking people "hate everyone else"? My point was that a Communist society strives for a goal for everyone to be on the same page and be equal in wealth and opportunity, and that this would have to be ENFORCED for such a thing to be strived for, which involves a command system.

You sound pretty naive to think that someone is a "sociopath" for wanting success. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be the best and striving for it. You have to take care of yourself before you can take care of others. The fact of the matter is, there is no success in a communist society. You can rail against Capitalism all you want, but its the opportunity for success that allowed us to advance in civilization. It takes visionaries to make such advances. If everyone was held down to the same standard, eveyone is equally mediocre, and there are no visionaries.

[oops_ur_dead]

You obviously completely misinterpreted what I said. How does a libertarian viewpoint (that I share) have anything to do with thinking people "hate everyone else"? My point was that a Communist society strives for a goal for everyone to be on the same page and be equal in wealth and opportunity, and that this would have to be ENFORCED for such a thing to be strived for, which involves a command system.

What is your proof?

[Nick]

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -5.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.62

Ugh... I'm almost a communist... or socialist?

[Nick]

Communism is ALL government, ALL the time.


I always assumed that Communism is all about the people? Or is that Socialism?

However, I'm very sure that the so called communist countries are in fact not true communism (as defined academically). Hey, even most democratic/republic/capitalist are actually not what they claim they are.

Assuming that you guys are discussing politics in regards to "The Political Compass":
Communism and Neo-liberalism are on the ECONOMIC SCALE - all about money
Fascism and Anarchism are on the SOCIAL SCALE - governance

[thisismyname]

You obviously completely misinterpreted what I said. How does a libertarian viewpoint (that I share) have anything to do with thinking people "hate everyone else"? My point was that a Communist society strives for a goal for everyone to be on the same page and be equal in wealth and opportunity, and that this would have to be ENFORCED for such a thing to be strived for, which involves a command system.

What is your proof?


The proof? It's a little something called human nature my friend.

You see, there's this thing called INCENTIVE. People want and deserve to be rewarded for their success and hard work. And people are individual thinkers, not collectivists, unless you belong to some tribe in Africa or some fucked up religion. Since people have individual thoughts and ideas, a collectivist society without a government to enforce rules simply is not possible, unless its a really small commune. But the US is not a really small commune. It's the leader of the free world.

[thisismyname]

Communism is ALL government, ALL the time.


I always assumed that Communism is all about the people? Or is that Socialism?

However, I'm very sure that the so called communist countries are in fact not true communism (as defined academically). Hey, even most democratic/republic/capitalist are actually not what they claim they are.

Assuming that you guys are discussing politics in regards to "The Political Compass":
Communism and Neo-liberalism are on the ECONOMIC SCALE - all about money
Fascism and Anarchism are on the SOCIAL SCALE - governance


Thank you for pointing that out. And the farther left you go on that compass, the greater amount of GOVERNMENT control you want over the economy.

[Auckmid]

Dont mean to be a nub, but what is the difference between "Left-Wing" and "Liberal"? I often find the 2 very closely linked

[Nick]

Realistically, to achieve total communist economy, absolute government control is needed.
Idealistically, every citizen will work towards a common goal... like ants... which is !@#$ in real life...

[Lysergic]

http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-1.38&soc=-5.85

I'd say I'm relatively libertarian, though I've become less so as I've aged. Some controls are necessary, including ones that I was pretty strongly against when I was younger.

[chocopaw]

Food for the mind: In a communist society where the state has been abolished, who might the government be? :)

Another one: People who buy Donald Trumps funny "human nature" also believe in the easterbunny.

You seem like people who think of themselves as critical. As such you should not allow yourself to repeat false facts about stuff you only heard from through pathetic sources. Please believe me, somebody who has at least some knowledge about marxist theory and socialist history, that all of what is written here is bullshit.

http://www.amazon.com/Companion-Marxs-Capital-David-Harvey/dp/1844673596/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311329189&sr=8-1
Maybe consider reading that. Unfortunately nearly all my materials on this matter are in german, but I heard the guy and the book are okayish. Of course you could read the originals (The Capital, Grundrisse, A Contribution to the Critique of Political Economy etc., NOT the manifesto which is not one of his scientific works and has to be understood in the historical context [revolution of '48]) but I understand when people are deferred at first by the amplitude of these.

I could go on and throw some counterarguments at people like trump, but it would be of no avail. You not gonna listen to some guy from the internet, and I do not have the time and energy for that. Just keep in the back of your head that you don't know the first thing about marxism AND capitalism. :)

[oops_ur_dead]

You obviously completely misinterpreted what I said. How does a libertarian viewpoint (that I share) have anything to do with thinking people "hate everyone else"? My point was that a Communist society strives for a goal for everyone to be on the same page and be equal in wealth and opportunity, and that this would have to be ENFORCED for such a thing to be strived for, which involves a command system.

What is your proof?


The proof? It's a little something called human nature my friend.

You see, there's this thing called INCENTIVE. People want and deserve to be rewarded for their success and hard work. And people are individual thinkers, not collectivists, unless you belong to some tribe in Africa or some fucked up religion. Since people have individual thoughts and ideas, a collectivist society without a government to enforce rules simply is not possible, unless its a really small commune. But the US is not a really small commune. It's the leader of the free world.

Human nature is something you are brought up with. We are brought up in a capitalist society where it is okay to not give a fuck about other people and to exploit others. If we are raised with the idea that we must help society in order to help ourselves, then we can achieve that goal.


Dont mean to be a nub, but what is the difference between "Left-Wing" and "Liberal"? I often find the 2 very closely linked

What Americans call Liberalism (Such as the Democratic party) is actually center-right wing politics. True Liberalism is Centrist, advocating social freedom such as freedom of religion and expression, while having a sort of "social capitalism" in which welfare and unemployment are controlled in a way that everyone has the means to live, while still having more or less free market capitalism.

Left-wing politics are entirely different. The basis of the belief is "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need", basically meaning that people will work however much they can and receive whatever they need.

[thisismyname]

You seem like people who think of themselves as critical. As such you should not allow yourself to repeat false facts about stuff you only heard from through pathetic sources.

I find it laughable that you consider my "sources" pathetic, when you can't name a single source of anything that isn't founded on some bullshit Keynesian slant or Marxist ideal.

Might I invite you to read "The Mainspring of Human Progress" by Henry Grady Weaver, "The Austrian School of Economics", some Hazlitt and Ayn Rand's "The Virtue of Selfishness".

I may not understand every twisted slant to Marxism from some academic textbook, but you sure as hell don't understand Capitalism if you think its the central problem in our society.

[Darth Sand]

Of course his sources are marxist, he essentially claims that Marx could sufficiently explain capitalism and its effects, so he doesn't need to write it all again.
If you claim that marxist sources are bullshit, you have to disprove Marx's theories. Go ahead :)

[thisismyname]

Of course his sources are marxist, he essentially claims that Marx could sufficiently explain capitalism and its effects, so he doesn't need to write it all again.
If you claim that marxist sources are bullshit, you have to disprove Marx's theories. Go ahead :)


The sources I gave you "sufficiently" debunk Marx's theories. It has even been proven that "The General Theory of Economics", the quintessential word of gospel for liberal economists, written by John Maynard Keynes, if full of inaccurate statistical data and skewed results.

Of course, despite this, most US colleges continue to teach economics according to the Keynesian school over the Austrian school, because most college professors have liberal views.

[chocopaw]

Dear Michelle, as long as you keep ranting about Marx' "ideals" I have all the right in the world to assume that you are poorly educated on that topic. :) This fact of course lets the books named by you stand in a bad light, assuming that you read them, but I might check them out. You on the other hand have proven again and again in this thread that you don't know the FIRST thing about marxism, and for the reasons I pointed out in my last post I will call this a day. :)

[MrSmarter]

Hey MrSmarter, how do you feel about that newly passed law in TN where if you post an offensive image, it is considered breaking the law? I think it was passed about a month or two ago.

Really, why does nobody tell me this shit.

[thisismyname]

Dear Michelle, as long as you keep ranting about Marx' "ideals" I have all the right in the world to assume that you are poorly educated on that topic. :) This fact of course lets the books named by you stand in a bad light, assuming that you read them, but I might check them out. You on the other hand have proven again and again in this thread that you don't know the FIRST thing about marxism, and for the reasons I pointed out in my last post I will call this a day. :)


Uh...my point wasn't to define Marxism. It started with me trying to refute this guy's rediculous statement that "left leaning" governments don't believe in big government, which is not only ignorant, but doesn't make sense for all the reasons I've already discussed. Then it developed into discussions about Marxism, Communism, and all this other bullshit and douchebag moderators attacking me and changing my name because they hurt at their core whenever anybody expresses a sensible view that doesn't involve hating America.

For the record, none of you have given any point whatsoever to display that YOU know anything about "Marxism" other than cite Wikipedia references and hurl insults.

But dont worry, maybe some day you'll grow up and get jobs and see how the real world and business works.

[Henry]

http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-9.25&soc=-9.5

Holy extremism, Batman!

[S.A.S.Cnl.Alpha]

Hey MrSmarter, how do you feel about that newly passed law in TN where if you post an offensive image, it is considered breaking the law? I think it was passed about a month or two ago.

Really, why does nobody tell me this shit.

I checked with two friends, both of whom live in TN. Gonna check again next time I hear from them.

[p.h.]

http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-0.62&soc=0.10

[philie]

ph can i safely assume that you have no interest in politics whatsoever?

[Nick]

ph can i safely assume that you have no interest in politics whatsoever?


I'll assume that ph is the moderate of moderates (at the place where ph is currently living)...

[Nick]

Human nature is something you are brought up with. We are brought up in a capitalist society where it is okay to not give a fuck about other people and to exploit others. If we are raised with the idea that we must help society in order to help ourselves, then we can achieve that goal.


While this is true... all it takes is a few parasites to destroy the system...



But the US is not a really small commune.


Easy to weed out parasites in a small commune… in a complex society, (1) we might not even know our neighbors and colleagues - peer pressure do not work well; (2) competition is relatively higher - devour or be devoured.

For those who say complex society is bad - we can never go the the moon as small communes.

[thisismyname]

Human nature is something you are brought up with. We are brought up in a capitalist society where it is okay to not give a fuck about other people and to exploit others. If we are raised with the idea that we must help society in order to help ourselves, then we can achieve that goal.


While this is true... all it takes is a few parasites to destroy the system...



But the US is not a really small commune.


Easy to weed out parasites in a small commune… in a complex society, (1) we might not even know our neighbors and colleagues - peer pressure do not work well; (2) competition is relatively higher - devour or be devoured.

For those who say complex society is bad - we can never go the the moon as small communes.


NOW we finally have someone else with some fucking sense on this thread.

[FalseTruth]

Human nature is something you are brought up with. We are brought up in a capitalist society where it is okay to not give a fuck about other people and to exploit others. If we are raised with the idea that we must help society in order to help ourselves, then we can achieve that goal.


While this is true... all it takes is a few parasites to destroy the system...



But the US is not a really small commune.


Easy to weed out parasites in a small commune… in a complex society, (1) we might not even know our neighbors and colleagues - peer pressure do not work well; (2) competition is relatively higher - devour or be devoured.

For those who say complex society is bad - we can never go the the moon as small communes.


NOW we finally have someone else with some fucking sense on this thread.

Says Michelle Bachman...

[Nick]

Current debt-limit impasse clearly shows the weakness of democracy - SLOW!

[CaressMeTenderly]

That's the fault of the Democrats. They keep trying to raise taxes for the wealthy and funnel money into their welfare leeches, which is just ridiculous.

[Dark.Revenant]

Anybody arguing that the only the Democrats or only the Republicans are full of shit is, his/herself, full of shit. Same goes for the Liberal - Conservative debate.

Both parties are doing some really stupid shit. I'd say the Republicans have got it worse off, sure, but they're not unilaterally worse than the Democrats.

The problem is deeper than just the political process; it's a culmination of many things, primarily greed, especially in corporate media. Just look at the news; shit that used to happen all the time without problem (the debt ceiling has been raised 120 times since the beginning of this country) is now being blown out of proportion all the fucking time by most media outlets on BOTH sides of the fence. The left-wing news stations are generally greater in number and are less outrageous than the fewer, more extremist right-wing stations, but both are often pretty fucked up. It's a bunch of sensationalist bullshit done because it attracts viewers and makes loads of money at the cost of the nation's well-being. It's actually gone so far that it literally affects the political process -- I'm willing to wager that the main reason why the two political parties cannot compromise anymore is that their respective voters and even some lobbyists won't compromise due to the extremist, sensationalist news sources pulling both sides apart from each other. It all began with Reagan's repeal of a certain act which forced news sources to remain fair, objective, and largely non-profit. Now, it's for-profit and certainly not objective, and it's definitely spun way out of whack.

This is perpetuated by our bad education system, because most children are not actually taught how to truly think objectively. Even science classes are less about "think objectively and figure out a way to do this" and more about "derp, 2-H2 and O2 combine to form 2-H2O, feed my brain with more random, ultimately pointless facts that won't help me in 99% of occupations and don't matter at all for everyday life and wellness, please, Uncle Sam!"

[Nick]

=======ADVERT=======

Can't think objectively?
Can't discern lies from truth?

No fear! We have the solution.

===================

PLAY MAFIA

===================

[Nick]

This is perpetuated by our bad education system, because most children are not actually taught how to truly think objectively.



I think another reason is that there is now a DELUGE of information.

All the EVIL ROLES are spamming in chat. All the townies want to have a say. Reliable info is being drowned.

[CaressMeTenderly]

Anybody arguing that the only the Democrats or only the Republicans are full of shit is, his/herself, full of shit. Same goes for the Liberal - Conservative debate.

Both parties are doing some really stupid shit. I'd say the Republicans have got it worse off, sure, but they're not unilaterally worse than the Democrats.

The problem is deeper than just the political process; it's a culmination of many things, primarily greed, especially in corporate media. Just look at the news; shit that used to happen all the time without problem (the debt ceiling has been raised 120 times since the beginning of this country) is now being blown out of proportion all the fucking time by most media outlets on BOTH sides of the fence. The left-wing news stations are generally greater in number and are less outrageous than the fewer, more extremist right-wing stations, but both are often pretty fucked up. It's a bunch of sensationalist bullshit done because it attracts viewers and makes loads of money at the cost of the nation's well-being. It's actually gone so far that it literally affects the political process -- I'm willing to wager that the main reason why the two political parties cannot compromise anymore is that their respective voters and even some lobbyists won't compromise due to the extremist, sensationalist news sources pulling both sides apart from each other. It all began with Reagan's repeal of a certain act which forced news sources to remain fair, objective, and largely non-profit. Now, it's for-profit and certainly not objective, and it's definitely spun way out of whack.

This is perpetuated by our bad education system, because most children are not actually taught how to truly think objectively. Even science classes are less about "think objectively and figure out a way to do this" and more about "derp, 2-H2 and O2 combine to form 2-H2O, feed my brain with more random, ultimately pointless facts that won't help me in 99% of occupations and don't matter at all for everyday life and wellness, please, Uncle Sam!"


Ehrm, I'm not sure where you're coming from this. It's clearly President Obama's massive increase in spending on things such as medicare that most of the American people don't even want that's dug us into this hole. Under a proper president like George W. Bush the countries economy was operating smoothly and we were doing fine.

Also, your argument against greed is really just more socialist liberal brainwashing. Greed is what made the United States the #1 nation in the world in the first place. The right-wing media only reports the truth, while the liberal elites of the left continue spewing their propaganda at honest hard working Americans to continue their agenda of supporting the welfare leeches that are draining our economy. Furthermore, your criticism of president Reagen is completely ridiculous, and shows how the communist left-wing wants to impose censorship upon our news outlets. President Reagen repealed that act because it violated the first amendment by stifling freedom of speech, while the left-wing would see communist-esque censorship blatantly plastered upon our sources of information. Brainwashing? I think so.

[Nick]

@CaressMeTenderly

"Under a proper president like George W. Bush the countries economy was operating smoothly and we were doing fine."
He started at least 2 wars. Both are ongoing (as in boots STILL on ground). If the wars don't add to spending, I suppose US has gotten quite some plunder from those countries.

"Greed is what made the United States the #1 nation in the world in the first place."
Our progress is fueled by greed. Greed is also our undoing. Too much = no good. I assume you are implying that the greed level in US is still at a healthy level?

"President Reagen repealed that act because it violated the first amendment by stifling freedom of speech".
Non-profit ~ government controlled = government propaganda. Common in developing countries.
For-profit ~ privately owned = owner's propaganda. Depends on who is controlling the media company. And don't forget the mess in UK.

[Nick]

When discussing about the media, please be reminded that there can be:
1) Censorship - blocking unfavorable info
2) Misinformation - giving misleading info
3) Biased information - true info but one sided
4) Entertainment - distract you from important info

By the way, good media = Non-profit AND Independent
Government-controlled is non-profit but may not be independent
Privately owned may be independent but is for profit.

[Ozymandias]

http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-1.88&soc=-1.08

[CaressMeTenderly]

@CaressMeTenderly

"Under a proper president like George W. Bush the countries economy was operating smoothly and we were doing fine."
He started at least 2 wars. Both are ongoing (as in boots STILL on ground). If the wars don't add to spending, I suppose US has gotten quite some plunder from those countries.

"Greed is what made the United States the #1 nation in the world in the first place."
Our progress is fueled by greed. Greed is also our undoing. Too much = no good. I assume you are implying that the greed level in US is still at a healthy level?

"President Reagen repealed that act because it violated the first amendment by stifling freedom of speech".
Non-profit ~ government controlled = government propaganda. Common in developing countries.
For-profit ~ privately owned = owner's propaganda. Depends on who is controlling the media company. And don't forget the mess in UK.


Spoken like a liberal elitist.
George W. Bush has not started any wars; the terrorists started wars by threatening and intimidating us, or have you forgotten 9/11 already?

Furthermore, Adam Smith wrote a book called the Wealth of Nations. You should read it, if you want to know why greed is good.
Finally, any censorship is censorship, and is communistic in nature and should be avoided.

[Nick]

Hmm... I'm interested to see where are you in the Political Compass...

I'm mid-left. Posted it somewhere in the thread. I'm perhaps more of a socialist/communist type...

[CaressMeTenderly]

http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=7.75&soc=7.79

[Ozymandias]

http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=7.75&soc=7.79


People are too libertarian and you're too capitalist. Didn't you see what happened with AIG?

[Nick]

@CaressMeTenderly

Haha... my guess is right on!

[Elixir]

http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-1.12&soc=-1.69

[Sonya]

I felt like necroing this to live up to my watched status: I wish oops could tell us what a capitalist face he is.

[Muso]

You study medicine, oops?

Me too.

[nanosystem]

Economic Left/Right: -4.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.67
http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-4.38&soc=-4.67

[oops_ur_dead]

You study medicine, oops?

Me too.

Not yet. I plan to.

[Narks]

Bronze League General - The 12 Drone Rush (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78ah49cKsO0#ws)

[zingo1zang]

I dunno what this even is, but i answered it and

http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-1.00&soc=-0.31

[S.A.S.Cnl.Alpha]

Hey guys, remember that guy Oops was trolling? What happened to him?



Yeah, he's so clever I just had to shit myself. Donald Trump...yeah he's such a major player in politics now isn't he? Whoever this guy is, he has nothing to back himself up, so he resorts to lame childish bullshit.

And "WawMoose", I think its pretty fucking rediculous that you support someone like Ron Paul, seeing as how you think of these left-leaning posters as your heroes. I think you're confused. Ron Paul is the quintissential anti-liberal and anti-big government.

And for your information you tards, I never said I support banning churches, or mosques, or whatever religious crap people want to put up. I simply pointed out that MAYBE Herman Cain's statements were misinterpreted, and that people intentions in government should be questioned.

Hey! Michelle Bachmann here to tell you about my party's platform!

- Reducing gay rights! We all know that gay people are commie fascists and want to push their horrible liberay-gay agenda and civil freedoms! We can't have civil freedoms here in America, land of the free!

- I will restore the Christian faith to America, birthplace of Jesus! All laws will be based off the Bible, even those about stoning children to death! After all, Jesus wants you to behave!

- Take over Canada! Canada has been harboring and raising a gay army for years! We can't have our neighbors being commie Soviets!

[nanosystem]

Hey guys, remember that guy Oops was trolling? What happened to him?


Last Active: August 29, 2011
Dunno what happened.

[S.A.S.Cnl.Alpha]

I miss the guy, it was nice watching oops change his name as well as them arguing back and forth. Eventually he started branching off to other parts of the forums but the arguments were nice.

[Ash]

http://politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-0.62&soc=1.23

[tiloup1441]

that image is broke
Edit : didnt see that this was a necropost from a year

[Chane]

dat broken image necro.

[Ash]

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070526081822/uncyclopedia/images/thumb/1/15/CaptainobviousChooseOption.jpg/200px-CaptainobviousChooseOption.jpg


u and chane have to compete for whoever gets to be "Captain obvious"

[Chane]

u and chane have to compete for whoever gets to be "Captain obvious"

I deduct tiloup will win this role as I am already known as Sherlock Holmes.

[tiloup1441]

This is not a boat captain u failure
SHERLOCK HOLMES IS DEAD

[Chane]

This is not a boat captain u failure
SHERLOCK HOLMES IS DEAD

no I am not.

[tiloup1441]

no I am not.

Wow u noob post farming

[creedkingsx]

>>